Mountain West meeting this weekend

Harry · December 6, 2012

UNR president Marc Johnson likes the ground on which the Wolf Pack athletic department stands, but he also understands there’s potentially a fault line just below the surface.

The last shift in conference realignment hasn’t had a major impact on the Mountain West, which the Wolf Pack is a member of, but it might. So, when Johnson and his fellow MWC school presidents meet this weekend in one of their three annual meetings, conference realignment will be atop the agenda.

“Realignment will be a major discussion topic,” Johnson said. “I have not heard that we are in an expansion mode ourselves, but the realignment of all the conferences and the impact on us will be discussed. There is some threat that some of the other conferences will come after some of the Mountain West schools, so we’ll be talking about the importance of our own cohesion as a conference.”

http://blogs.rgj.com/packblog/2012/12/05/unr-president-marc-johnson-discusses-wolf-packs-place-in-conference-realignment/

The Fake Lonnie Finch · December 6, 2012

Tulsa. Their money donors have been clamoring for the MWC since Houston and SMU left for the Big East.

Other Tulsa rumor is Big East. Again, just rumor. But, it wouldn't be a shock either, given SMU, Houston, Boise State, and San Diego State now being "Eastern" schools.

The guys I know who played football at TU, then stayed on to get their law degrees, say they will not be in the C-USA much longer.

Good for them, not so great for us. We are joining a crumbling C-USA. Banowsky is being terribly outflanked here. He's up on the podium last week waxing nonsense about some bigger academic/geographic picture.

So stupid. We and Banowsky can wish and hope all we want that this thing isn't about money, but it is. Our adminstration was two decades slow in paying attention to the facilities. And, we're now a part of two conferences where the commissioners can't pull their heads out of their asses on what is happening around them.

What are they paying Banowsky to do at this point?

As I said a couple of weeks ago, the best thing he and Benson can do is admit defeat and try to piece together a conference out of the remaining schools between their conferences. Go ahead and throw a lifeline to New Mexico State and Idaho.

Along with Tulsa, my guess is Southern Miss and UTEP also bolt from C-USA. I also wouldn't be shocked to see Old Dominion jump to the Big East before they play a down of C-USA football, if the new Big East is in the least bit viable.

Pathetic.

Edited December 6, 2012 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

THOR · December 6, 2012

at least we get a year of awesome conference games

Mean Green 93-98 · December 6, 2012

I don't think Southern Miss, but I imagine Tulsa and UTEP (and maybe Rice?) are off to the MWC. If that happens, the C-USA we will be in will be no better than the Sun Belt we left. Actually, it will be worse in many respects.

Our hope is that the MWC wants to reestablish its presence in the Metroplex. But they won't take mediocre athletic programs.

The Fake Lonnie Finch · December 6, 2012

I don't think Southern Miss, but I imagine Tulsa and UTEP (and maybe Rice?) are off to the MWC. If that happens, the C-USA we will be in will be no better than the Sun Belt we left. Actually, it will be worse in many respects.

Our hope is that the MWC wants to reestablish its presence in the Metroplex. But they won't take mediocre athletic programs.

Rick, and our smiling/e-mailing president Rawlins, should be 127% into the Tulsa president's brown butt trying to get him to consider us as a geographic package with Dallas "TV market" (which we don't drive)...YESTERDAY! Rick and Lane have got to be on airplanes this weekend, not phones, making our presence known.

Surely, they cannot be sitting back waiting on Banowsky to do something. That guy is a freaking zombie. We'll be in the Southland if we keep following Banowsky's lead.

Edited December 6, 2012 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

forevereagle · December 6, 2012

... Dallas "TV market" (which we don't drive)...

And this doesn't matter. These TV deals are about getting into cable packages and viewer licensing. It doesn't matter if we are a huge presence in the market, we are in the market and there are lots of TVs to generate revenue whether they watch us or not.

The Fake Lonnie Finch · December 6, 2012

And this doesn't matter. These TV deals are about getting into cable packages and viewer licensing. It doesn't matter if we are a huge presence in the market, we are in the market and there are lots of TVs to generate revenue whether they watch us or not.

If it "doesn't matter" that we don't drive it then Rick and Lane for sure need to be physically present in front of the movers and shakers this weekend. If they are in their offices fielding calls from Banowsky, we're screwed. He's about to be commissioner of C-Sun Belt.

As far as Banowsky is concerned, Rick and Lane are "in an out of town meeting" today and will call him (maybe) when they get back.

Harry · December 6, 2012

There are two different philosophies at play here.

C-USA is looking at large TV markets and geographical rivalries. This strategy makes sense due to the fact that ESPN and the TV networks are calling all of the shots and better TV markets equates to better contracts and more money.

Mountain West is more about established programs and geographical rivalries. Their TV markets are small in comparison to C-USA with the possible exception of Las Vegas. But they have several state flagship universities (New Mexico, Nevada, Wyoming), iconic Air Force and some good history programs like Colorado State and Fresno.

I have always maintained that the message board Tulsa and UTEP fans arguing for the move to the Mountain West are more about the perception of quality versus what is in their decision makers best interest. To them, the move to a conference which has not brought in the start ups or FCS move-up that C-USA has makes a difference. I think in their eyes, when C-USA loses ECU and Tulane it further waters down the esteem of the conference.

Tulsa and UTEP both need ties to the metroplex, Houston and Texas in general. That's where their alumni are, that's where they recruit players. So they are very torn right now. If the Big East came calling it would be a no brainer for them both but that call hasn't happened because they don't really fit the Big East model which is focused on larger markets.

Another factor is the other Mountain West schools want into Texas as well. CSU, New Mexico, UNLV and others recruit Texas as well. When Banowsky secured all of the Texas schools it shut the Mountain West out to a certain extent. My sense is they would like to get back but have been focused on trying to lure Boise and SDSU back in.

The key school to watch is Fresno. If the Big East brings Fresno in, that means Boise and SDSU will stay and that will actually clear up the landscape quite a bit. The Mountain West will be forced to make their expansion move.

If I'm Tulsa, I am trying to get the Mountain West to consider moving into Texas. In fact, I would want to see UTEP, Rice, UTSA and North Texas be a part of the move because it would secure the biggest cities and help fill out an eastern division. If that proposal came to us we would have to take it. But if it's just, we want Tulsa and maybe UTEP alone I don't know if that will be enough to get them to move. The timing couldn't be worse for them to even make a decision because their AD was busted for gambling after lying to his president and the NCAA is investigating.

The interesting thing for us in the meeting is what the Mountain West decides to do in Texas.

meangreener · December 6, 2012

Everyone keeps saying Tulsa and UTEP to the Mountain West. What exactly is the point of them moving to the MWC? There's less revenue, less TV deals and farther travel for those two teams (maybe not UTEP). Tulsa to the Big Least is a possibility, but I don't see that happening. And there's no way Rice would leave, either. I think, for the moment, CUSA is stable, at least until another round of realignment. And Southern Miss isn't going anywhere, if they can't get into the Big East, there's no viable options left, unless the Big 12 or SEC came calling (not going to happen).

The Sun Belt, however, is dead in the water. Which is a little concerning because despite moving up, we'll still be in the worst FBS conference. I don't think though it matters if you're in the MWC/MAC/CUSA, just make the best of it, and try to grab that last playoff spot and you'll be okay. We may be in a weaker football conference going forward, but honestly, the Sun Belt was horribly weak for 10 years and just had one good year; but yet, we still have a.) no BCS busters and b.) no Top 25 teams. Both of which CUSA has had (and has had multiple times. Also, CUSA has a closet full of bowl tie-ins and a huge budget that's not going anywhere coupled with a pretty nice TV contract. I'm going to love being able to turn on FSN Southwest and watch the "Mean Green Insider" and the CUSA preview.

We have to make our splash on the FIELD next year. This sounds completely outrageous and ridiculous, but anything less than 8-4 is not going to give us the step we need. We can leap frog to the front of realignment in the future with a successful season with a fantastic schedule and some well known conference opponents, or do the UNT thing and just fall in a 4-8 or 5-7 season. Either way, the Sun Belt is dead, we just have to position ourselves to make another jump to a conference on the level of the one we thought we just joined.

One last point, this is what I've been saying all along, is that CUSA isn't even about better football anymore. It's about getting 25K-30K in that stadium every week. A conference that is perceived to be better with name recognition attracts the casual fan. Everybody has heard of the CUSA. Everybody has heard of Southern Miss, ECU, Tulsa, Marshall, Rice, UTEP etc. We just need to win to keep the 25K there. I can't tell you how many times I got a "Who are we playing this week?" and I reply with "Louisiana-Lafayette, South Alabama, Troy" and everyone goes "WHO?" and then don't show up because it makes them think we're playing the little sisters of the poor. Name recognition=attendance (at least initially)=money and hopefully success will add in there, even. Because even in the NEW CUSA, people know Old Dominion, Charlotte (hell, I saw a Charlotte 49er shirt the other day) based off of basketball and people know UTSA because we're close to them. This move is about perception, and I don't think it really matters if it is on paper a weaker conference (the SBC is dead anyway); playing an 0-10 Southern Miss squad is more interesting than playing another hyphen school, like a 5-1 Louisiana-Lafayette squad in the eyes of the casual fan or a directional school no one knows like USA.

Edited December 6, 2012 by meangreener

PlummMeanGreen · December 6, 2012

Still.......unless I've missed it North Texas seems to be no more mentioned in any of this MWC talks probably because of the 3 ring circus our athletic program continues to be.

Location (hardly our record) was our only ally in the CUSA move from the SBC but this MWC thing seems to be about "established" athletic programs that have had some semblance of success by mostly schools that Top 25 rankings have not been a total stranger. (Yes, Rice U has been mentioned, too, and would be the exception with that).

And I have to ask the question: Does this continued scenario of an annual totally impotent and lack-luster athletic program in Denton piss off anyone else on this board? Serious response on that question (if any) but no smart A$$ remarks from the usuals in the GMG.com peanut section of which most of that group have never seen a UNT HFC who left Denton with at least a .500 career W/L record.

Amazingly, I don't even think most at UNT even see the MWC as a move upward albeit was for TCU who went to a Rose Bowl as MWC football champion. Anyone see this

happening in the new CUSA anytime soon?

If I were to be wrong about this concerning UNT & the MWC I would be the first to admit it or even eating crow would be my choice of menu if I end up being wrong about this MWC thing for UNT but I don't think I will have to concern myself with any of that at all.

There are solutions to each of our problems at North Texas, folks, there really is, but the (forever) "good ol' boys network" and certain athletic department employees sucking up to key UNT Board of Regent members will have to completely disappear from the Mean Green scene in order for the Mean Green Nation to get the solutions to our long-running problems.

GMG!

Edited December 6, 2012 by PlummMeanGreen

Legend500 · December 6, 2012

The MWC doesn't need any more regional rivalries or geographic presence, and realignment (clearly) isn't being driven by those priorities anyway. The MWC is holding for five possibilities, two of which still have to play out.

1. Boise State and San Diego State return. If this happens, it's probably gonna stop for now.

2. The CUSA gets done being raided, and the MWC executes the merger plan by taking those CUSA teams with with either the market or the credibility to be good for them. In this scenario, MWC takes Texas-El Paso, Texas-San Antonio, North Texas, Rice, Tulsa and Louisiana Technical School for the Criminally Insane.

3. The Big East dies, and MWC takes back San Diego State, Boise State and adds Houston-Telephone and University Park Senior High School.

4. The MWC decides to expand to the traditional 12 via a cynical TV market play. MWC adds North Texas and Rice.

5. The MWC does nothing.

Still a lot to shake out here, folks. The Big Whatever still isn't done, nor is the Big Less Than Whatever. The Big Everywhere is still going to lose members - whether to the Anywhere near a Coast Cnference or to the Big Less Than Whatever. There is still a strong possibility that the basketball schools defect from the BE as well.

Edited December 6, 2012 by Legend500

El Paso Eagle · December 6, 2012

What is the exit fee for C-USA??

houstonmeangreen · December 6, 2012

What is the exit fee for C-USA??

not a lawyer...don't play one on TV, but i would think that with all the defections, you could make a case for paying nothing...make them come and get it...anyway, a smart school would have "outs" put in the contract...for situations just like this...don't you think? Edited December 6, 2012 by houstonmeangreen

PlummMeanGreen · December 6, 2012

The DFW Metroplex and Houston are very important to MWC Commish' Craig Thompson, the MWC and their dire needs to increase their present woefully lean TV market. So I would all but wager he is using Rice U and North Texas as pawns to get SMU and UH to $hi& or get off the pot if they ever want in the Mountain West Conference and may be telling them they need to act now or forget it in the future.

Maybe not--maybe so.

GMG!

houstonmeangreen · December 6, 2012

Tulsa. Their money donors have been clamoring for the MWC since Houston and SMU left for the Big East.

Other Tulsa rumor is Big East. Again, just rumor. But, it wouldn't be a shock either, given SMU, Houston, Boise State, and San Diego State now being "Eastern" schools.

The guys I know who played football at TU, then stayed on to get their law degrees, say they will not be in the C-USA much longer.

Good for them, not so great for us. We are joining a crumbling C-USA. Banowsky is being terribly outflanked here. He's up on the podium last week waxing nonsense about some bigger academic/geographic picture.

So stupid. We and Banowsky can wish and hope all we want that this thing isn't about money, but it is. Our adminstration was two decades slow in paying attention to the facilities. And, we're now a part of two conferences where the commissioners can't pull their heads out of their asses on what is happening around them.

What are they paying Banowsky to do at this point?

As I said a couple of weeks ago, the best thing he and Benson can do is admit defeat and try to piece together a conference out of the remaining schools between their conferences. Go ahead and throw a lifeline to New Mexico State and Idaho.

Along with Tulsa, my guess is Southern Miss and UTEP also bolt from C-USA. I also wouldn't be shocked to see Old Dominion jump to the Big East before they play a down of C-USA football, if the new Big East is in the least bit viable.

Pathetic.

I agree, RV and Rawlins should be infront of the guys from MWC and get us hooked up because I don't see this playing well for the new C-USe to b A....this could turn in to a game of "who bails next". or if anything, perhaps now is the time for a CUSA-MWC merger...not just an association.

Legend500 · December 6, 2012

not a lawyer...don't play one on TV, but i would think that with all the defections, you could make a case for paying nothing...make them come and get it...anyway, a smart school would have "outs" put in the contract...for situations just like this...don't you think?

There's a few reasons why no one is holding schools to the actual buyout provisions unless the school can easily pay it. An old common-law idea generally referred to as "frustration" allows people out of a contract if circumstances fundamentally change in a way which was not foreseeable to the parties at the time of contracting and which fundamentally alters the expectations of the parties when the parties contracted. It's an old doctrine that's an iffy proposition in litigation, but I could certainly see it applying in these conference realignments. Houston effectively negotiated a contractual "frustration" out when they were granted the opportunity to not join the Big East if certain things occurred.

If any of this realignment stuff got to trial, it would be bad for everyone but the lawyers. The NCAA, conferences and ESPN would have to answer some tough antitrust questions, and the schools would have to answer some equally tough fiduciary questions. Not to mention how much money could be paid out for breaching contracts (by a school leaving a conference) or by fraudulent inducement (by a conference attracting new members with grand promises while it knew other members were out the door). It would be an epic litigation battle for all time.

DeepGreen · December 6, 2012

I agree, RV and Rawlins should be infront of the guys from MWC and get us hooked up because I don't see this playing well for the new C-USe to b A....this could turn in to a game of "who bails next". or if anything, perhaps now is the time for a CUSA-MWC merger...not just an association.

Maybe it's just me, but sending Fric and Frac to negotiate with, and convince the MWC that they need to offer UNT a membership to have a presence in Texas, does no give me a whole lotta hope.

Edited December 6, 2012 by DeepGreen

El Paso Eagle · December 6, 2012

Something UNT fans will not want to hear --- If SMU is in play for a move to the MWC they will get the nod before we do.

foutsrouts · December 6, 2012

Something UNT fans will not want to hear --- If SMU is in play for a move to the MWC they will get the nod before we do.

We just have to hope that their desire to be an "Eastern school" supersedes their common sense until it's too late, and that the MWC decides to grab us instead.

TIgreen01 · December 6, 2012

Something UNT fans will not want to hear --- If SMU is in play for a move to the MWC they will get the nod before we do.

We just have to hope that their desire to be an "Eastern school" supersedes their common sense until it's too late, and that the MWC decides to grab us instead.

Well, they did just bring in Larry Brown to coach the basketball team. I can't imagine that he'd have gone there to play in the MWC. I don't know how much sway he'd have, but I imagine the dreams of being a big time basketball school (since football is not ever happening there again) would be tough to dash for those alums that ponied up the money to bring him in.

oldguystudent · December 7, 2012

The new CUSA is the old belt except for one thing -- a whole bunch more television money in the neighborhood of $3 million a year above what we've been getting on a contract that I understand is locked in for a good while.

UNT90 · December 7, 2012

I agree, RV and Rawlins should be infront of the guys from MWC and get us hooked up because I don't see this playing well for the new C-USe to b A....this could turn in to a game of "who bails next". or if anything, perhaps now is the time for a CUSA-MWC merger...not just an association.

Should have been in front of them as soon as FAU and MTSU were announced as CUSA adds.

glick1980 · December 7, 2012

Well, they did just bring in Larry Brown to coach the basketball team. I can't imagine that he'd have gone there to play in the MWC. I don't know how much sway he'd have, but I imagine the dreams of being a big time basketball school (since football is not ever happening there again) would be tough to dash for those alums that ponied up the money to bring him in.

Once UConn and Cincy leave for the ACC, is the BE even a better BB conference than the MWC? I don't think so. I am not sure it is much better with them. Bigger, sure, but better?

glick1980 · December 7, 2012

I think this could end very badly for us as in...Tulsa, UTEP, Rice and UTSA added and us stuck in CUSA with no other Texas schools until CUSA adds Tx State.