Hustle Stats?

[CurveItAround]

I realize the frustration with the teams W/L results so far this year. Maybe that is a factor of the coaching, the schedule, the players, all of the above. Each has their opinions.

I started digging into TM's individual numbers earlier today and compared them to last season, expecting to see that his numbers had dropped dramatically, only to discover that his numbers through the first 8 games this year, are actually up across the board compared to his first 8 games last year. His numbers definitely increased over the last part of the season when Chris and Jordan went out most likely due to carrying a bigger part of the load. There has been a lot of discussion regarding to how bad the offense has been but I was a little surprised there as well. Our scoring offense has only seen a minimal drop off from last season. Our FG percentage is down, which could be cause by a few things. Jordan and Alzee are the two that have dropped off the most in terms of FG% when compared to last year. Maybe I will create a post that shows everyone's numbers.

However, when I started digging deeper into the team stas, some troubling numbers started to appear.

Category, per game average, national ranking

2012 Offensive points per game, 69.6, 151st

2011 Offensive points per game, 70.3, 115th

2012 Offensive FG%, 40.2, 276th

2011 Offensive FG%, 43.4, 167th

2012 Scoring Defense, 69.4, 239th

2011 Scoring Defense, 65.0, 108th

2012 FG% Defense, 42.6, 194th

2011 FG% Defense, 40.6, 44th

2012 3pt FG% Defense, 39.6, 329th

2011 3pt FG% Defense, 31.5, 53rd

2012 Rebound Differential, 1.5, 161st

2011 Rebound Differential, 4.1, 48th

The troubling trend here seems to be large decreases across the board in defensive categories and rebounding margin. These are largely hustle stats. We have played primarily a man to man defense so far this year. There is no excuse for the players to not put forth the effort. This could also explain why players that just made shot on one end may have been getting pulled because they were not hustling on the other end. It will be up to the coach to get the message across that lack of hustle will not be tolerated. I noticed in the ULL game, we started running some zone on a few different occasions that was effective. We may have to resort to more of that if the players do not pick up their intensity.

Without questions, the UAH and ULL games were lost on the defensive end. Too many times we would score only to have them get an easy bucket. It was pitiful. Our offense went stale in the 2nd half against UTA, but we still gave up over 70 points to them. I firmly believe defense and rebounding are the areas where we have the greatest opportunity to improve. If you want to fault the coaching staff or players or both, fine. Defense and rebounding has to improve and really has no excuse with as much athletic ability as there is on this team.

[filmerj]

I think the problem is, last year TM started playing while we were well into conference play, these first 8, we've only played one conference foe. One team we probably should have lost to in Creighton and One in Virginia, which we might not have played if we had beat the d2 team we lost to. Oh well. Whatever. I'm starting to care less and less as the days go by. Merry Happy Holiday Hoobie Whaties.

[CurveItAround]

I think the problem is, last year TM started playing while we were well into conference play, these first 8, we've only played one conference foe. One team we probably should have lost to in Creighton and One in Virginia, which we might not have played if we had beat the d2 team we lost to. Oh well. Whatever. I'm starting to care less and less as the days go by. Merry Happy Holiday Hoobie Whaties.

First 4 games of the TM era were OOC, first 2 were Jackson St and Grambling. Next 4 were against lower conference mates. Either way, the point was that the numbers were surprising comparable for TM year over year and really didn't go up until Chris and Jordan went out. The real point of this particular thread whas the downward trend so far in defense and rebounding, which to me are less system based and more motivation/hustle based.

Hopefully Benford and his staff can figure out a way to light a fire get the lack of defensive/rebounding effort turned around.

[TIgreen01]

Nice analysis, but it's over-analysis from what I've seen. We don't block out. Maybe Franklin does, but the team mostly does a poor job of it. It's just basics. Get your hands up on D and block out. That's all I'd work on for a week.

[CurveItAround]

Nice analysis, but it's over-analysis from what I've seen. We don't block out. Maybe Franklin does, but the team mostly does a poor job of it. It's just basics. Get your hands up on D and block out. That's all I'd work on for a week.

I guess you are probably right. Unsupported opinion works much better around here...

I promise that I am working hard to be more negative and to blast anything and everyone that is UNT until such a point in time they are no longer here, then I will defend them to the death.

It will take me a little time, but visiting this board frequently is really helping.

Edited December 5, 2012 by CurveItAround

[Green P1]

So you're telling me we're worse at every single thing this year?

Benford'd

[TIgreen01]

I guess you are probably right. Unsupported opinion works much better around here...

I promise that I am working hard to be more negative and to blast anything and everyone that is UNT until such a point in time they are no longer here, then I will defend them to the death.

It will take me a little time, but visiting this board frequently is really helping.

Sorry, didn't mean to come across so harshly. I like your analysis. I'm just not sure that the problems this team is facing aren't dramatically reduced by simplifying things and working on basics.

[CurveItAround]

My bad, didn't mean that directly at you either. I agree that this isn't that hard, but I happen to think the players play a larger role in what's gone wrong so far than some, and was just trying to provide some backup. I should know better and realize where I am at. Man, we need some good things to happen for a change.

[UNT90]

I realize the frustration with the teams W/L results so far this year. Maybe that is a factor of the coaching, the schedule, the players, all of the above. Each has their opinions.

I started digging into TM's individual numbers earlier today and compared them to last season, expecting to see that his numbers had dropped dramatically, only to discover that his numbers through the first 8 games this year, are actually up across the board compared to his first 8 games last year. His numbers definitely increased over the last part of the season when Chris and Jordan went out most likely due to carrying a bigger part of the load. There has been a lot of discussion regarding to how bad the offense has been but I was a little surprised there as well. Our scoring offense has only seen a minimal drop off from last season. Our FG percentage is down, which could be cause by a few things. Jordan and Alzee are the two that have dropped off the most in terms of FG% when compared to last year. Maybe I will create a post that shows everyone's numbers.

However, when I started digging deeper into the team stas, some troubling numbers started to appear.

Category, per game average, national ranking

2012 Offensive points per game, 69.6, 151st

2011 Offensive points per game, 70.3, 115th

2012 Offensive FG%, 40.2, 276th

2011 Offensive FG%, 43.4, 167th

2012 Scoring Defense, 69.4, 239th

2011 Scoring Defense, 65.0, 108th

2012 FG% Defense, 42.6, 194th

2011 FG% Defense, 40.6, 44th

2012 3pt FG% Defense, 39.6, 329th

2011 3pt FG% Defense, 31.5, 53rd

2012 Rebound Differential, 1.5, 161st

2011 Rebound Differential, 4.1, 48th

The troubling trend here seems to be large decreases across the board in defensive categories and rebounding margin. These are largely hustle stats. We have played primarily a man to man defense so far this year. There is no excuse for the players to not put forth the effort. This could also explain why players that just made shot on one end may have been getting pulled because they were not hustling on the other end. It will be up to the coach to get the message across that lack of hustle will not be tolerated. I noticed in the ULL game, we started running some zone on a few different occasions that was effective. We may have to resort to more of that if the players do not pick up their intensity.

Without questions, the UAH and ULL games were lost on the defensive end. Too many times we would score only to have them get an easy bucket. It was pitiful. Our offense went stale in the 2nd half against UTA, but we still gave up over 70 points to them. I firmly believe defense and rebounding are the areas where we have the greatest opportunity to improve. If you want to fault the coaching staff or players or both, fine. Defense and rebounding has to improve and really has no excuse with as much athletic ability as there is on this team.

So, what these stats reflect is TM hasn't progessed from the 1st eight games last year. You know, the first 8 games that he had played competitively in a year and a half outside the whole international thing? If your not progressing, you are regressing.

Regressing like we are as a team in every catagory, especially on defense.

It's amazing how 2 different people can look at the same set of numbers and have 2 completely different opinions on what those numbers mean, isn't it?

[CurveItAround]

So, what these stats reflect is TM hasn't progessed from the 1st eight games last year. You know, the first 8 games that he had played competitively in a year and a half outside the whole international thing? If your not progressing, you are regressing.

Regressing like we are as a team in every catagory, especially on defense.

It's amazing how 2 different people can look at the same set of numbers and have 2 completely different opinions on what those numbers mean, isn't it?

Actually these particular numbers don't have anything to do with TM???

All these numbers were trying to show is that defense and rebounding have dropped off in a larger amount than offensively. It seems like most of the angst (other than the 'L') so far on this board has been focused on how TB's new offensive 'system' was killing the team and his substitution pattern was the reason for our losses. The numbers that I provided seem to paint a picture of regression in defense and rebounding so far this year as a real, quantifiable area of under performance when compared to last season. And based on all the athleticism on this team, those areas should be our strength.

Everyon can form their own opinion on whether you believe the responsibility of playing defense and rebounding is on the coach, players, or both. The mistakes on defense are also plausible reasons for the frequent substitutions that we have seen, if the coach feels like he is not getting effort on both ends of the floor.

I get the fact that everyone got super hyped about this season, and are disappointed in how things have gone so far. I wish that JJones would not have bolted on us and left us with what seemed to be a team on the edge, only to have been let down so far this season with the same up and down performances that we have seen for the last several years that we hoped to avoid this season. We didn't shoot well early, we haven't played tough defense, and the new coach has made several missteps. It sucks.

I just happen to NOT believe that 100% of the blame belongs on the new coach, like so many on here have expressed, and the players share at least an equal amount of responsibility for the way things have gone primarily because of their defensive performance so far this year (IMO). I am also not saying Benford deserves 0% of the blame, but there seemed to be no one looking at this from the other side, so I tried to provide an alternate view.

I am really not trying to be the defender of Benford. I have not seen enough to know whether he will be a good or bad coach long term. I can say I haven't seen enough personally to warrant calling for his head, and so far he seems like he can recruit, which in this business will beat great x and o guys that can't get talent.

I will 'try' to refrain from further discussions on this topic since our 10-12 main posters seem to be intent on firing Benford.

Fire Benford!

[CMJ]

I'm not beating the fire Benford drum because we can't afford to. I hope he learns on the job real quick though. Was our effort last night a positive trend, or a blip? We shall see.

[filmerj]

I'm not beating the fire Benford drum because we can't afford to. I hope he learns on the job real quick though. Was our effort last night a positive trend, or a blip? We shall see.

What if we could afford it? Would you be beating the drum then?

[CMJ]

What if we could afford it? Would you be beating the drum then?

Definitely a possibility.

[UNT90]

What if we could afford it? Would you be beating the drum then?

If we could afford the buy out, we could have afforded to hire a proven coach and Benford wouldn't have gotten the job.

That's the problem with hypotheticals.