Benford Coaches Show Tonight at 7 from Rudy's

KRAM1 · December 4, 2012

Fair question here...how is it that Roger Franklin can get open and get the ball in the middle in traffic and when being guarded closely and Tony can't? Am sure the experts here can tell me what I am missing, but seems to me if Franklin can do it surly a potential "NBA Lottery Pick" would be capable of doing it as well. No?

Just asking....

GMoney · December 4, 2012

_{Like Harry said earlier in the post, I'm still behind Tony Benford cause he's the coach of UNT BB and it's too early. Now the early results are bad and things need to change quickly or the most talented team in UNT BB history will make headlines as the biggest bust in UNT history.}

_{However, what I'm most disappointed in is our defense and rebounding. These two stats are about want-to and athletes. We've been told this would be a priority, but have not seen any evidence to confirm this. It's not that we don't have the athletes to defend and rebound, so what's the problem? Defense wins games for you when you're not making shots. Rebounding gives you second chance points when you're not making shots and limits oppenents opportunities when they miss. It also allows you to run the floor and fast break which is what this team needs to be doing. He can blame the poor shooting, but in my mind it's not about that - have I mentioned it's rebounding and defense?}

Edited December 4, 2012 by GMoney

MeanGreenTexan · December 4, 2012

Fair question here...how is it that Roger Franklin can get open and get the ball in the middle in traffic and when being guarded closely and Tony can't? Am sure the experts here can tell me what I am missing, but seems to me if Franklin can do it surly a potential "NBA Lottery Pick" would be capable of doing it as well. No?

Just asking....

Just a guess, but Roger is not triple-teamed when in the post. He's probably open because his man is cheating over to cover Tony Mitchell.

Now, a question for you: By using quotations, you are insinuating that Tony Mitchell is not a potential NBA Lottery Pick. Is this what you believe?

Green P1 · December 4, 2012

Fair question here...how is it that Roger Franklin can get open and get the ball in the middle in traffic and when being guarded closely and Tony can't? Am sure the experts here can tell me what I am missing, but seems to me if Franklin can do it surly a potential "NBA Lottery Pick" would be capable of doing it as well. No?

Just asking....

First...No one is game planning to stop Roger Franklin. He is not seeing even a fraction of the attention of Tony. Rog is a high motor tweener player who doesn't need plays or an offense run around him to get his type of shots. Tony Mitchell is a Center in Benford's "offense." If you're disappointed that a center is not getting the ball at the top of the key or elbow and creating his own shots like a guard or small forward... Then you're basically disappointed in Tony for not 100% ignoring the "offense" Benford is trying to force on this team and going rouge.

CurveItAround · December 4, 2012

On a 3 out 2 in motion offense, remind me which one is the center and which one is the forward again? They keep switching spots and ending up at similar spots on the floor so much, I am having trouble telling them apart.

greenminer · December 4, 2012

On a 3 out 2 in motion offense, remind me which one is the center and which one is the forward again? They keep switching spots and ending up at similar spots on the floor so much, I am having trouble telling them apart.

You're on the world wide web. Surely there are better places than Gmg.com to answer your x and o questions.

CurveItAround · December 4, 2012

You're on the world wide web. Surely there are better places than Gmg.com to answer your x and o questions.

Mabye I was a little too subtle?

However, your second point does seem incredibly valid.

Edited December 4, 2012 by CurveItAround

Andrew · December 4, 2012

What a truly asinine comparison. But, since you made it, let me point out how it illustrates all that many of is have been saying. When I was young and didn't do my chores, homework, etc my mother punished me. She parented (coached) to correct the behavior. At no point did she say "Hey, it's not my fault, I told him what to do and turned him loose". Even if it meant correcting the behavior repeatedly the "coaching" was ever present.

You are missing the point. How do you know the "coaching" is not ever present? This is what I cannot understand. Everyone on this site must not work and literally devote their time to stalking this coach and this team. I have a life and a job. When will all of these people who go to practice and have conversations with the staff and players post more information on here? Until then this is all speculation. Some believe it is the players while others believe it is the coach. This kind of argument occurs in a lot schools around the nation when alum get upset. Time always tells which side is correct. I am going to give it more time.

Edited December 5, 2012 by Andrew

UNT90 · December 5, 2012

You are missing the point. How do you know the "coaching" is not ever present? This is what I cannot understand. Everyone on this site must not work and literally devote their time to stalking this coach and this team. I have a life and a job. When will all of these people who go to practice and have conversations with the staff and players post more information on here? Until then this is all speculation. Some believe it is the players while others believe it is the coach. This kind of argument occurs in a lot schools around the nation when alum get upset. Time always tells which side is correct. I am going to give it more time.

Look Skiver, if you don't understand that losing to UTA AT HOME, LaLa AT HOME, and a D2 school ON A NEUTRAL FLOOR is a terrible underachievement for a team that was a unanamous choice to win the west division of the Belt, and that the head coach is ultimately responsible for the product on the floor, and that basketball EXPERTS (not members of this board) believe this team is loaded with talent, then you are a basketball moron.

Maybe we should play more 2-3 zone to guard those 3s.

Andrew · December 5, 2012

Look Skiver, if you don't understand that losing to UTA AT HOME, LaLa AT HOME, and a D2 school ON A NEUTRAL FLOOR is a terrible underachievement for a team that was a unanamous choice to win the west division of the Belt, and that the head coach is ultimately responsible for the product on the floor, and that basketball EXPERTS (not members of this board) believe this team is loaded with talent, then you are a basketball moron.

Maybe we should play more 2-3 zone to guard those 3s.

What? who said anything about a zone? And who says that you can use it to guard against the 3?

Anyway. Perhaps I am just being patient. Until I see a game where the players look completely clueless and lost on Benfords system I will have faith.

-I think it's jus our mindset we have 2 be more focus and buy in on wat he is teaching us because it works plus we can't give up second chance shots

With this^ I think the blame is being placed on both players and coaches as it should be. Give them time. People at work who are not die hard fans even say give him a year when I bring up the idea of blaming Benford. If we flop by the end of the year then yes I will change my stance. Lets just change the topic to something else like how we are going to beat St. Louis! I did make the call after at all.

I also believe this team is under achieving. Worse things could happen. We could have two players flunk mid term and then choke come conference tourney time.

Edited December 5, 2012 by Andrew

curtisdaa · December 5, 2012

Fair question here...how is it that Roger Franklin can get open and get the ball in the middle in traffic and when being guarded closely and Tony can't? Am sure the experts here can tell me what I am missing, but seems to me if Franklin can do it surly a potential "NBA Lottery Pick" would be capable of doing it as well. No?

Just asking....

1. Roger does not have the others team best defender assigned to him, nor is he double or triple team.

2. Roger does a very good of working to get into position and then knows how to use his body to pin and shield the defender from the ball.

filmerj · December 5, 2012

What? who said anything about a zone? And who says that you can use it to guard against the 3?

Anyway. Perhaps I am just being patient. Until I see a game where the players look completely clueless and lost on Benfords system I will have faith.

-I think it's jus our mindset we have 2 be more focus and buy in on wat he is teaching us because it works plus we can't give up second chance shots

With this^ I think the blame is being placed on both players and coaches as it should be. Give them time. People at work who are not die hard fans even say give him a year when I bring up the idea of blaming Benford. If we flop by the end of the year then yes I will change my stance. Lets just change the topic to something else like how we are going to beat St. Louis! I did make the call after at all.

I also believe this team is under achieving. Worse things could happen. We could have two players flunk mid term and then choke come conference tourney time.

They're not fans so they don't know what JJ left behind.

eulessismore · December 5, 2012

I'm pretty sure that being 40 doesn't make me a mature adult.

I wish I'd been more mature at 45. The thing is: never stop learning.

cl_1_2008 · December 5, 2012

Look Skiver, if you don't understand that losing to UTA AT HOME, LaLa AT HOME, and a D2 school ON A NEUTRAL FLOOR is a terrible underachievement for a team that was a unanamous choice to win the west division of the Belt, and that the head coach is ultimately responsible for the product on the floor, and that basketball EXPERTS (not members of this board) believe this team is loaded with talent, then you are a basketball moron.

Maybe we should play more 2-3 zone to guard those 3s.

I wondered where our comedic relief had run off to. It all makes sense now.

KRAM1 · December 5, 2012

Just a guess, but Roger is not triple-teamed when in the post. He's probably open because his man is cheating over to cover Tony Mitchell.

Now, a question for you: By using quotations, you are insinuating that Tony Mitchell is not a potential NBA Lottery Pick. Is this what you believe?

At this point in this season...and I repeat...at this point...no, I do not see Tony as a lottery pick. Is he capable of moving up to that spot? Absolutely. But a lottery pick playing in the Sunbelt has the ability to take over a game and dominate it...double teamed or not. Have not seen any indication of that as yet in this season. Again, talent is there...results this season...not so much. Hope that answers it for you.

So, back at you...what have you seen in Tony's play so far this season that shows to you that at this point he is a lottery pick?

Love the kid...full of talent, but we are talking NBA lottery pick here....you know what a lottery pick can do and does do, so you tell me...at this point in the season...

KRAM1 · December 5, 2012

First...No one is game planning to stop Roger Franklin. He is not seeing even a fraction of the attention of Tony. Rog is a high motor tweener player who doesn't need plays or an offense run around him to get his type of shots. Tony Mitchell is a Center in Benford's "offense." If you're disappointed that a center is not getting the ball at the top of the key or elbow and creating his own shots like a guard or small forward... Then you're basically disappointed in Tony for not 100% ignoring the "offense" Benford is trying to force on this team and going rouge.

Well, if so..seems the game planning is working really well for opposing coaches. Had no clue it was so easy to stop a lottery pick in the Sunbelt. They might want to start game planning to stop Franklin. Some folks on here say there is no Benford offense and that Jones is drawing up the plays...so should we blame Jones for out lottery pick being out worked by Franklin on his own team? CJ needs to be led accountable for all these bad plays and poor offenses he is drawing up!

So, you are telling me that an NBA lottery pick playing in the Sunbelt...not the ACC, Big Ten, Big IX, but the Sunbelt is not able to take over a game because other coaches are game planning to stop him? Wow...then those coaches in those other leagues who are playing against all the other lottery picks I have seen play on TV this season better contact some Sunbelt coaches and ask them how to stop those guys. Only seems to be working in the Sunbelt and against Tony. These other coaches in the Belt must be super game planners.

I will sy again, just to be clear...does Tony have the potential to be a lottery pick? ABSOLUTELY! Is he currently playing up to lottery pick standards...not by a long shot! Can he play up to that potential? ABSOLUTELY! Will he? Remains to be seen.

106Aseat4 · December 5, 2012

Everything is an opinion. That is exactly what I have, an opinion equal to anyone else's.

I am insane now.

106Aseat4 · December 5, 2012

Well, if so..seems the game planning is working really well for opposing coaches. Had no clue it was so easy to stop a lottery pick in the Sunbelt. They might want to start game planning to stop Franklin. Some folks on here say there is no Benford offense and that Jones is drawing up the plays...so should we blame Jones for out lottery pick being out worked by Franklin on his own team? CJ needs to be led accountable for all these bad plays and poor offenses he is drawing up!

So, you are telling me that an NBA lottery pick playing in the Sunbelt...not the ACC, Big Ten, Big IX, but the Sunbelt is not able to take over a game because other coaches are game planning to stop him? Wow...then those coaches in those other leagues who are playing against all the other lottery picks I have seen play on TV this season better contact some Sunbelt coaches and ask them how to stop those guys. Only seems to be working in the Sunbelt and against Tony. These other coaches in the Belt must be super game planners.

I will sy again, just to be clear...does Tony have the potential to be a lottery pick? ABSOLUTELY! Is he currently playing up to lottery pick standards...not by a long shot! Can he play up to that potential? ABSOLUTELY! Will he? Remains to be seen.

So what you're saying is that there's no way that the enormous dropoff we've seen in Tony's productivity between last year and this year is coaching. If find that amazing.

GrandGreen · December 5, 2012

A few observations about Mitchell. He is the highest rated player to ever play at NT. There have been others decades ago that were of his category but they were not rated as they are today. Chris Davis is the only one in decades that comes close.

I predicted the first game that I saw Mitchell play he would be the MVP of the conference in his first year and he would have been if they had voted for the best player instead of the best player on the best team. He is physically gifted with his quick jumping and a good outside shot. He played a few games were he just over matched the competition. Then Belt coaches, most notably Marlin of ULL found that be putting pressure on Mitchell with double teams and roughing him up a little, worked great. Tony tended to be flustered, became inefficient on the offensive side and had too many fouls and turnovers. Slowly at first, the Belt watched and learned and most opponents are using variations of these tactics going forward.

Tony was pretty much neutralized during the Belt tournament. He still played well enough to be all Tournament but was not close to dominating and really got schooled against WKU in the finals.

Then between seasons, we fans see how Tony not only gets invited to the premier camps but is almost unanimously hailed as one of the stars. His player ratings soar.Then we have a new coach come in and declare he is one of the most talented players, he has been associated with.

Now we get to the reality of this season thus far. Tony is not the caliber of player that we had hoped, he still has the same issues he did last year. He dominated the all star camps with pure athleticism, they don't really play to stop one player like NT opponents are now doing. I don't think Mitchell has regressed as some think, but he has not improved his weak areas either. He has problems against the defenses he faced the end of last year and he is having the same problems this year.

Every team is going to play Mitchell about the same way, because it works. If NT, is going to be successful; Benford is going to have design an offense that works. Mitchell doesn't have to be a big scorer but he does have to play a lot closer to his potential. Any one player can be stopped, it is up to the coach and the team to make teams pay when they collapse on one player.

Tony Mitchell is an unique talent, but he still has little playing experience. Tony is playing out of position and may never be what many thought he could be at NT. At this point, he is a great athlete but not a great player.

KRAM1 · December 5, 2012

Well, I must do a mea culpa here after having an epiphanic moment while driving to work this morning. I have done, in my mind what is unthinkiable and unexcusable!

I have posted comments on this public message board that could in not be considerered anything but critical in nature and I have directed them toward a player. Shame on me! That is WRONG and I know it and I hate that I feel into that trap. I hate it when others do it...it is not right, in my opinion, and is not a postive reflection on this program or on this poster...or anyone else, in my opinion, who does the same. While I chasticize others for doing it...I go and follow suit. That is wrong and I feel really awful about it, I want to apologize publicly apologize in the same forum where the critical comments were posted for falling into this mindset. I am done with it...I have been hypocritical here to have called out others for doing the same....stupid of me!

So, I am hereby banning myself from posting in the basketball thread for the rest of the week.

I won't remove my comments as I think it's a tad late in the game. maybe they will remind me to remember to "walk the walk" as they say if I am going to be critical of others who discuss these kids in a negative way on a public forum. Sorry.

MeanGreenTexan · December 5, 2012

Well, I must do a mea culpa here after having an epiphanic moment while driving to work this morning. I have done, in my mind what is unthinkiable and unexcusable!

I have posted comments on this public message board that could in not be considerered anything but critical in nature and I have directed them toward a player. Shame on me! That is WRONG and I know it and I hate that I feel into that trap. I hate it when others do it...it is not right, in my opinion, and is not a postive reflection on this program or on this poster...or anyone else, in my opinion, who does the same. While I chasticize others for doing it...I go and follow suit. That is wrong and I feel really awful about it, I want to apologize publicly apologize in the same forum where the critical comments were posted for falling into this mindset. I am done with it...I have been hypocritical here to have called out others for doing the same....stupid of me!

So, I am hereby banning myself from posting in the basketball thread for the rest of the week.

I won't remove my comments as I think it's a tad late in the game. maybe they will remind me to remember to "walk the walk" as they say if I am going to be critical of others who discuss these kids in a negative way on a public forum. Sorry.

It's OK to have an opinion Kram!

To answer your 2nd question posted to me: Yes. I believe he's still a lottery pick. As I stated before, I don't think Mitchell's draft stock is sliding, simply because of his showings in the Amare and LeBron camps this summer. NBA personnel were there and they know what to expect from him when he is handled by other competent NBA people.

Green P1 · December 5, 2012

Well, I must do a mea culpa here after having an epiphanic moment while driving to work this morning. I have done, in my mind what is unthinkiable and unexcusable!

I have posted comments on this public message board that could in not be considerered anything but critical in nature and I have directed them toward a player. Shame on me! That is WRONG and I know it and I hate that I feel into that trap. I hate it when others do it...it is not right, in my opinion, and is not a postive reflection on this program or on this poster...or anyone else, in my opinion, who does the same. While I chasticize others for doing it...I go and follow suit. That is wrong and I feel really awful about it, I want to apologize publicly apologize in the same forum where the critical comments were posted for falling into this mindset. I am done with it...I have been hypocritical here to have called out others for doing the same....stupid of me!

So, I am hereby banning myself from posting in the basketball thread for the rest of the week.

I won't remove my comments as I think it's a tad late in the game. maybe they will remind me to remember to "walk the walk" as they say if I am going to be critical of others who discuss these kids in a negative way on a public forum. Sorry.

Don't worry about it Kram. I think we can all see how trying to defend a coach as inept as Benford would make a guy do some crazy things. We know you didn't mean it.

Edited December 5, 2012 by Green P1

GangGreen · December 5, 2012

So, I am hereby banning myself from posting in the basketball thread for the rest of the week.

I would have banned you a long time ago.

Don't take things so seriously. It's gonna be alright.

TIgreen01 · December 5, 2012

So now Tony Mitchell is the problem??

Sweet mercy, what a load of sh!t!!

Sorry, but any team that cannot take advantage of having a single player that commands at least a constant double team and sometimes triple team has problems somewhere OTHER THAN THE FREAKING SUPERSTAR THAT COMMANDS ALL THE ATTENTION!!

Our coach and AD even floating this tripe is embarrassing.

Edited December 5, 2012 by TIgreen01

CurveItAround · December 5, 2012

Fun with numbers:

Tony Mitchell's numbers through the first 8 games this year (no exhibition) with Chris and Jordan

13.6 pts, 8.3 boards, 10 shot attempts

Tony Mitchell's numbers through the first 8 games last season (Jackson St was 1st game) with Chris and Jordan

13.1 pts, 8 boards, 7.4 shot attempts

Tony Mitchell's numbers last season without Chris and Jordan (last 13 games of season)

15.2 pts, 11.6 boards, 9.9 shot attempts

So far TM is scoring slightly more, rebounding slightly more, and getting 2.5 more shot attempts per game under the new regime than he was last year when Chris and Jordan were still in the lineup.

Edited December 5, 2012 by CurveItAround