Trice's job on the line?

glick1980 · December 3, 2012

I counter with this.....and it's just my opinion of course.

I saw DB's out of position all season. And I also saw when they were in position to make a play they often would never look back for the ball when the receiver looked up. So I don't think it's a talent issue with our DB's. If the QB doesn't have time due to the rush to set his feet and make the throw he won't be as accurate. How many times have you heard a team's losing QB for a game described as..."He was running for his life all day"....TCU has made a living off of this, and they did it again this year with freshmen recruited to the MWC no less.

So which of the two positions would a coach rather have first to defend the pass? A great DB or a great D lineman? I say D Lineman and it appears that is the consideration with recruit talent scouts in College and the NFL and there's solid reasons for it....mainly to disrupt an offense.

The past 4 years there have been more DL's taken in the first round than DB's.

According to the Sporting News for the past incoming freshman class out of HS, of the top 75 recruits there were more DL's ranked than DB's. (I didn't check the other recruit ranking services so it may show something different with them?).

If you stop the run better than the pass, your more than likely to have a good pass rush and a more successful defense overall. According to the NCAA stat sheets for this season, there are more teams with losing records in the top 50 pass defense leaders than there are in the top 50 run defense leaders. Before I get jumped on for this let me just say, yes, I know it's important to have run stopping DB's, and yes, I know depending on coverages(Cover 4 split and quarters, or cover 2) you'll always have LB's having to cover WR's as well. But it all starts up front and the coaches know this.

DB's are a dime a dozen, and there's no such thing as a "Shut Down Corner" either. We see teams making DB's out of several different types of athletes that are more readily available out of HS. There are a ton of kids with speed and we see RB's, QB's WR's and "Athletes" getting converted every year to play DB and they get coached up to do so if it hasn't been a natural position for them before. But Run Stopping/Pass Rushing/Offense Disrupting DL's are rare. So when one comes along this is the guy the schools fight over the most between the two. And this is the position we have not addressed as well at North Texas in past years. It's either that or our coaches don't know what they are doing. And considering DMac has made a living successfully coaching DLine, and Nelson as well, I don't think this is the issue....at least I hope it isn't?

Disagree with me all you want. But the bottom line is, if we don't find a pass rush and soon for next year we will continue to see our DB's forced to cover for too long and they will continue to get eaten alive.

Rick

You also saw us playing very far off receivers due to the lack of any money packages. Basically all the QB has to do is get the snap and throw it because everyone is wide open. I doubt TCU has alot of LB's chasing around slot WR's like we do. We lack depth at both positions and have had way to many blown coverage TD's the last two years. As long as we play 10 yards off the WR's and cover WR's with LB's it won't matter as much who we have on the DL. We also put our two big guys (Abbe and Cantly) in at the same time alot this season on passing downs....Never understood that. I was impressed with Belazin this year, I think he is in for a big Senior season.

FirefightnRick · December 3, 2012

You also saw us playing very far off receivers due to the lack of any money packages.

Do the DB's decide on what package we are in on any given play?

Rick

GrayEagle · December 3, 2012

I agree with you on the value of a D lineman but DBs are equally important. The defensive back is the last line of defense. If they cover poorly or they can't tackle well any team is doomed.

It works both ways between the DL and DBs. Some sacks are "coverage sacks" because the quarterback can't find a receiver. But pressure by the DL is essential because few, if any, DBs can hold coverage for very long.

Another need for good defensive backs is for punt and kickoff coverage. Either ours are not fast enough, not heavy enough, or don't have good tackling technique because we are among the worst in the nation on both kickoff and punt coverage.

Good DTs are especially hard to find so I would probably put them first in priority simply because there are so few. But while a good DB is more plentiful they certainly are not a dime a dozen...especially the good ones. I'd fill up the remaining ten spots with those two positions if it were up to me. That is, unless some outstanding receiver or linebacker became available.

Edited December 3, 2012 by GrayEagle

FirefightnRick · December 3, 2012

Another need for good defensive backs is for punt and kickoff coverage. Either ours are not fast enough, not heavy enough, or don't have good tackling technique because we are among the worst in the nation on both kickoff and punt coverage.

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't it the first two home games of this season in which we watched Chancellor stand there and watch the ball hit and roll, and everyone started to yell "Catch the @#$@# ball!!!!..". I think it was? This went on the first half of the season.

I know we are chocked full of all kinds of STRUCTURE around here so that's something the coaches should be able to correct.

Rick

Edited December 3, 2012 by FirefightnRick

glick1980 · December 3, 2012

Do the DB's decide on what package we are in on any given play?

Rick

No, Mac does, and he said we don't have enough quality depth to run any other packages, which is why we play so far off and why it is so easy to complete short passes against us, and why it is so hard for the rush to get there.

Edited December 3, 2012 by glick1980

GOMG2013 · December 3, 2012

I counter with this.....and it's just my opinion of course.

I saw DB's out of position all season. And I also saw when they were in position to make a play they often would never look back for the ball when the receiver looked up. So I don't think it's a talent issue with our DB's.

DB's are a dime a dozen, and there's no such thing as a "Shut Down Corner" either. We see teams making DB's out of several different types of athletes that are more readily available out of HS. There are a ton of kids with speed and we see RB's, QB's WR's and "Athletes" getting converted every year to play DB and they get coached up to do so if it hasn't been a natural position for them before.

If a DB isn't looking for the ball, he's not a good db. Period. Can't stop what you can't see. I have seen a lot of it too. It is a known that if you don't look back for the ball a pass interference is coming and it's an easy call, and DBs are still playing the man instead of the ball. I see it all day on Saturdays and also on Sundays. The fundamentals are not taught anymore.

Why is this happening? Probably because of your statement about DBs being a dime a dozen. If coaches feel that way and want to just convert any athlete to corner, then that is a lot of the problem. It's hard to find a true cover corner with the ability to backpedal, turn, and run anymore. One that is confident in their closing speed and one that has the confidence to turn their heads, while still running with the man. Corner is the one position you should not just throw anyone at. It will get exposed.

If you have corners playing 10 yards off of WRs, you are pretty much giving up 5 yards automatically the way some of these QBs can throw. You are not a good corner if you are playing 10 yards off. You are scared of getting beat deep and have no confidence in your quickness or ability to recover.

A D line and pass rush is very important, but a weak corner will still get exposed even if you have a strong pass rush. It's called 3 step drop or timing patterns. If you have a corner that can play close coverage or even bump and run, it will throw the timing off. QB hesitates and theres the sacks. It works hand in hand. It's rare a team has two great cover corners. A team usually has one, and then the saftey helps the other one. If both safties have to worry about the pass, then you have big problems. Most teams do not have the luxury of stopping the run with just the front 7. That 8th man in the box is the run stopper, and that is usually the strong safety. If your strong saftey is playing pass first all the time and cannot come downhill to shut down the run, then you will continue to have defensive problems.