Players

[Censored by Laurie]

I want to make one thing perfectly clear here before I try and go to sleep to forget about this game, because I know I'll wake up tomorrow morning and read something about it.

I think lost in the Benford and RV hate is something that I don't think anyone is absolving the players.

Tony Mitchell needs to stop being a pouty bitch.

Chris Jones needs to stop trying to be so damn cool on the ball and just make the simple play.

Jordan Williams needs to focus all of his athleticism and energy to the defensive side of the ball and never shoot from further than 3 feet out.

Alzee and Roger...I like your work ethic. Work on you FTs and I got no beef.

But...

Players need an offense. Players need a system.

And there simply is not one in place.

That zone-offense was without question the worst I have ever seen in my life. And I've watched a lot of (COLLEGE) basketball. I often watch more off the ball action than I do where the ball is, and the standing and confusion was mind-boggling. That confusion led to frustration...which led to quit. Some may want to blame that quit on the players, but when you realize that the person paid to lead and put players in position to succeed has no earthly idea how to do so, it's very hard to keep faith.

Tonight was worse than last year. Last year was a bunch of shell-shocked freshmen who got down early and got snow-balled.

This year was incompetence.

[Green P1]

Bumford'd

[golfingomez]

Bumford'd

AND SON'D

[UNT90]

Seeing two 2 on 1 fastbreaks end in a charge and a missed layup without a pass was the most frustrating thing of the night for me. Basic basketball. Give it up, get it back. BASIC, BASIC, BASIC, and yet Jordan Willaims (who has a terribly low basketball IQ) ran over his defender while Alzee decided to take it in on his own and miss a heavily contested layup instead of making a 5 foot pass that would have resulted in a lay up.

Maddening.

[KRAM1]

Seeing two 2 on 1 fastbreaks end in a charge and a missed layup without a pass was the most frustrating thing of the night for me. Basic basketball. Give it up, get it back. BASIC, BASIC, BASIC, and yet Jordan Willaims (who has a terribly low basketball IQ) ran over his defender while Alzee decided to take it in on his own and miss a heavily contested layup instead of making a 5 foot pass that would have resulted in a lay up.

Maddening.

On this we agree 100 percent! Excellent point!

[ForneyGreen]

Seeing two 2 on 1 fastbreaks end in a charge and a missed layup without a pass was the most frustrating thing of the night for me. Basic basketball. Give it up, get it back. BASIC, BASIC, BASIC, and yet Jordan Willaims (who has a terribly low basketball IQ) ran over his defender while Alzee decided to take it in on his own and miss a heavily contested layup instead of making a 5 foot pass that would have resulted in a lay up.

Maddening.

Agreed 100% And this goes to coaching - our coach needs to be strong enough to tell Chris "hey, just lay the ball into the basket!!!" and Alzee "hey,, everyone in the Super Pit saw the open guy that you didn't pass to - pass it next time!!!".

After watching this game, I honestly couldn't tell you what our offensive strategy is at all... that was the most inept offensive scheme I have ever seen at a North Texas game. UTA on the other hand had a definite scheme. Their scheme would work better if they had a couple of more athletic slashers to the basket, but it still worked pretty well because their perimeter guys were smart enough to drive if the outside shot wasn't open.

[KRAM1]

For those who think the players were blameless and this is all on Benford, you might want to check out Mitchell's tweet after the game.

No real confirmation one way or the other but basically said they were "terrible " against UTA. That seems to me to be an indication that the players and TM in particular were not happy with their play.

[filmerj]

For those who think the players were blameless and this is all on Benford, you might want to check out Mitchell's tweet after the game.

No real confirmation one way or the other but basically said they were "terrible " against UTA. That seems to me to be an indication that the players and TM in particular were not happy with their play.

Or the plan they were given.

[KRAM1]

Really...do we know if Benford is not coaching these guys or if these guys are not listening? Seems UNT has a pretty experienced group of assistant coaches around Benford and I seem to recall many of those now calling for his head along with RV's being the same ones just a few short months ago praising this hire as brilliant and that adding the assistant coaches that were added to the staff made it all the much a better hire. Interesting and quick change of opinion.

I heard Benford yelling all night for the guys to "move" which tells me tat the team had not been listening to what was coached in practice....if they stand around and do not move is it not harder to get the ball inside to TM? If a team does not do as the coach coaches is tat on the coach or the players or both?

Basketball folks...please respond...Cooley, Tasty, CMJ, NT03? Others?

[KRAM1]

Or the plan they were given.

Could be right, but is it not a players responsibility to at least attempt to execute the plan given?

[filmerj]

Could be right, but is it not a players responsibility to at least attempt to execute the plan given?

sure if I could believe they were given a solid plan. Based on Alzee's post game comments they are more free and less system oriented. Seems to me like that's code for not having a plan.

[CMJ]

KRAM - I don't know if this is on the players not adapting to/playing for the coach, or the coach being in over his head, or some of combination of the two. The loss to our D2 opponent killed whatever honeymoon Benford was gonna have. Realistically before the season started I figured that the UTA game would be a dogfight that we could lose just because of the nature of the games we play against them. But it's the fact that we have basically spit the bit in every game against a decent team so far.

We're not just losing these games. We're looking really bad doing so.

Even if the players aren't adapting....to a certain degree their lack of evolution would also be on Benford. My guess on a blame breakdown would be something like 75% Benford and 25% players.

Edited November 29, 2012 by CMJ

[greenminer]

I've always appreciated KRAM's desire to find optimisim in everything Mean Green, but at some point you have to look at something and call it like it is.

We have a coach who is in over his head.

If you truly want what is best for your university, you have to hope for better than this. That's not being mean or cynical, that is understanding the situation and hoping our administration addresses this ASAP.

Rhetoric like "do you really know what is happening behind the scenes?" or "is it really on the coaches or the players?" is - in this bad of a situation - reaching for something that you don't even know is there.

RV made a bad hire. AGAIN.

Edited November 29, 2012 by greenminer

[greenminer]

This is easily the most talent that JJ would have ever had, and we have a coach that makes them look like the worst team since any of Trilli's.

[angel1972]

I believe what's missing is that the players have not bought into Benfords system of coaching. If you are not in sync with your coach or you don't feel motivated by your coach there's going to be a lot of things off balance. Hopefully tonight's game will open up the players eyes and Benfords that some serious things need to be changed. There is something missing between the coach and players....chemistry. until our players believe in themselves and the style of play Benford has. We will forever look lost and lethargic. Confused,bad decision making shots,semi-defense,lackadaisical attitude,throwing up missed shots around the perimeter,no penetration to the basket. Jordan needs to work on handles and footwork and more slashing to the basket, Chris needs to step up and be the leader. Tony needs to get his head right...very dissappointed with his attitude tonight. Roger, I love this Guy plays hard everytime, alzee good player just need to tweek his decision making, PJ best hustler on the floor,holmen need to be consistent offensively. Prediction: we will lose some more games, win conference tournament and win one NCAA game.....lol

[glick1980]

If Tony Mitchell goes to the NBA he will be out of a job in 4 years. The end.

[CurveItAround]

Good grief, at what point do players have to take responsibility for their poor performance and effort? This thing reminds me of the jealousy between the thre J's on the Mavericks long ago. CJ, JW, and TM need to either figure out how to get along or one or more of them have to go, starting with CJ IMO. I saw plenty of opportunities for our guards and wings to step up and take an open shot, but they won't and when they do, they can't hit the broad side of a barn so it ends up lookng like were are just running around on the outside of the arc.

They are not being asked to do anything much different in terms of 'scheme' than most college teams are. This ain't middle school, we are not going to run a specific set play designed to get a specific shot. This is basic motion offense that requires players with ability to create. This is what top programs like Marquette run because they have players that can create, like we are supposed to have. Maybe Benford has over estimated the ability of our guards/wings to create and distribute.

Maybe he should implement the stack and overload offense so our guards and wings don't have to think, they just have to memorize where to go on the floor. Good grief! This seems like either a talent problem or a jealousy problem to me.

Can't completely absolve Benford in this, but the players are not holding up their end of the bargain. He needs to figure out who needs to be subtracted from the mix.

Edited November 29, 2012 by CurveItAround

[KRAM1]

Good grief, at what point do players have to take responsibility for their poor performance and effort? This thing reminds me of the jealousy between the thre J's on the Mavericks long ago. CJ, JW, and TM need to either figure out how to get along or one or more of them have to go, starting with CJ IMO. I saw plenty of opportunities for our guards and wings to step up and take an open shot, but they won't and when they do, they can't hit the broad side of a barn so it ends up lookng like were are just running around on the outside of the arc.

They are not being asked to do anything much different in terms of 'scheme' than most college teams are. This ain't middle school, we are not going to run a specific set play designed to get a specific shot. This is basic motion offense that requires players with ability to create. This is what top programs like Marquette run because they have players that can create, like we are supposed to have. Maybe Benford has over estimated the ability of our guards/wings to create and distribute.

Maybe he should implement the stack and overload offense so our guards and wings don't have to think, they just have to memorize where to go on the floor. Good grief! This seems like either a talent problem or a jealousy problem to me.

Can't completely absolve Benford in this, but the players are not holding up their end of the bargain. He needs to figure out who needs to be subtracted from the mix.

BINGO! This I can buy....even the part about Benford cutting some of these guys out of the mix. Indeed does remind one of the old three J's days in Mavs land. Excellent point here CurveItAround.

If UNT is going to lose, might as well lose with guys who will work their tails off to try to win and try to work with whatever system the coach asks them to play. I am looking forward to seeing what happens Saturday against LaLa. If it's a win will Benford get the credit for a good coaching job or will it be all the players who did the winning in spite of poor coaching? Is this a no win for Benford with many of our fans while it's a no lose with the fans for a group of severely underachieving players at this point in the season? Make a few front ends on those 1 and 1 fouls shots, grab a defensive rebound, try not turning the ball over in double digits, hit a shot or two in the second half and last night would have been a Mean Green win in the bag. Here's hoping that happens Saturday against LaLa. If for no other reason than the mental stat of the Mean Green Nation.

[EagleMBA]

All of this venom aimed at Benford on multiple threads after only 7 games got me to remembering. There was one hell of a brouhaha on here about running off Johnny Jones a few years ago (I counseled patience, you can look it up) and now he walks on water with a large majority of us. I am thinking take a deep breath and give Benford time to straighten this thing out before calling in the hit man. He has the basketball resume and he is surrounded by quality assistants. Lets demand some accountability from those kids whose job it is to play as a team and put the ball in the hole.

[KRAM1]

All of this venom aimed at Benford on multiple threads after only 7 games got me to remembering. There was one hell of a brouhaha on here about running off Johnny Jones a few years ago (I counseled patience, you can look it up) and now he walks on water with a large majority of us. I am thinking take a deep breath and give Benford time to straighten this thing out before calling in the hit man. He has the basketball resume and he is surrounded by quality assistants. Lets demand some accountability from those kids whose job it is to play as a team and put the ball in the hole.

Indeed!

[Army of Dad]

All of this venom aimed at Benford on multiple threads after only 7 games got me to remembering. There was one hell of a brouhaha on here about running off Johnny Jones a few years ago (I counseled patience, you can look it up) and now he walks on water with a large majority of us. I am thinking take a deep breath and give Benford time to straighten this thing out before calling in the hit man. He has the basketball resume and he is surrounded by quality assistants. Lets demand some accountability from those kids whose job it is to play as a team and put the ball in the hole.

Except that JJ was given a train wreck to fix and Benford was given a train on the tracks and buidling steam. A train he is wrecking as we speak.

[MeanGreenTexan]

Except that JJ was given a train wreck to fix and Benford was given a train on the tracks and buidling steam. A train he is wrecking as we speak.

A train that was about to pull into the "top 25" station to pick up votes, then continue on to the final destination of "Noise in the NCAA tourney". Now, we have something similar to this:

Still time to put on the brakes and maybe reverse course, but it aint looking good.

[H-towngreen]

At this point it's just sit back and see how many of the railcars end up being derailed.

[Green P1]

At this point it's just sit back and see how many of the railcars end up being derailed.

Agreed... We're just going to keep the idiot in place until the entire thing is dead and buried.

Edited November 29, 2012 by Green P1

[GoMeanGreen1999]

I've always appreciated KRAM's desire to find optimisim in everything Mean Green, but at some point you have to look at something and call it like it is.

We have a coach who is in over his head.

If you truly want what is best for your university, you have to hope for better than this. That's not being mean or cynical, that is understanding the situation and hoping our administration addresses this ASAP.

Rhetoric like "do you really know what is happening behind the scenes?" or "is it really on the coaches or the players?" is - in this bad of a situation - reaching for something that you don't even know is there.

RV made a bad hire. AGAIN.

Here is where I think we could be in real serious trouble: we don't have the money to keep buying out bad hires. So the hires will last more than 1-3 years.