Virginia (11-20-12)

akriesman · November 21, 2012

I was at the game at JPJ arena. The Mean Green dug a whole in the 1st half but played very well in the 2nd half . They just couldn't get past the 9 and 11 point margin. This team is a work in progress and will get better during the season. Tony Benford is a very good coach and will keep improving this team. The team has some very good parts that need to jell as a unit and that will take some time. The best thing about that is the season is a marathon and not a sprint. I don't understand the x and o's stuff because Benford and his staff have forgotten more about basketball than most people have ever known. I don't care who you are or how good you think you are, because for the most part no team plays an ACC team on their home court and comes away feeling good about themselves. The Mean Green had a great 2nd half effort and believe me caused some nervousness in the UVA faithfull. Keep your spirits up folks, this is a good team.

Thank you for posting. Those are my feelings exactly. Benford's system may take a while to gel. But, it is a long season.

Creighton was 18-2 at home last year. Virginia was 16-5 at home. Of UV's 5 losses at home, their largest defeat was 3 points playing a tough ACC schedule.

The Alabama-Huntsville loss is the one really big black mark IMO.

The first half yesterday was a debacle for the Mean Green. But, they didn't quit and made it interesting for a bit.

Mark it down. NT will still win at least 20 games this season. We are not going to have the dream season that some expected. But, it should be a good one nonetheless.

oldguystudent · November 21, 2012

We really, really, really need to fire Johnny Jones.

UNTLifer · November 21, 2012

Thank you for posting. Those are my feelings exactly. Benford's system may take a while to gel. But, it is a long season.

Creighton was 18-2 at home last year. Virginia was 16-5 at home. Of UV's 5 losses at home, their largest defeat was 3 points playing a tough ACC schedule.

The Alabama-Huntsville loss is the one really big black mark IMO.

The first half yesterday was a debacle for the Mean Green. But, they didn't quit and made it interesting for a bit.

Mark it down. NT will still win at least 20 games this season. We are not going to have the dream season that some expected. But, it should be a good one nonetheless.

Man this board can be frustrating. We have a new coach that just completed his sixth game, a team that has not played together and some new faces that we have to work into the mix and everyone is questioning every move this coach makes. I should be surprised, but I am not.

UNT90 · November 21, 2012

Thank you for posting. Those are my feelings exactly. Benford's system may take a while to gel. But, it is a long season.

Creighton was 18-2 at home last year. Virginia was 16-5 at home. Of UV's 5 losses at home, their largest defeat was 3 points playing a tough ACC schedule.

The Alabama-Huntsville loss is the one really big black mark IMO.

The first half yesterday was a debacle for the Mean Green. But, they didn't quit and made it interesting for a bit.

Mark it down. NT will still win at least 20 games this season. We are not going to have the dream season that some expected. But, it should be a good one nonetheless.

I don't get how some people can't understand that it's not the fact that we lost these games, but the way we lost them.

I knew the "great second half" post was coming. Here is a dirty little secret. When a team knows they can beat your a$$ and are up 20 at the half, they often take their foot off the gas, knowing that they can always get it going again and widen the lead, if needed. This is exactly what happended in the second half.

We couldn't shoot last year and can't shoot this year. JW and AW were a about a combined 8-26 from the field, meanwhile, your NBA lottery pick is only able to take 7 shots from the field because he has 3 players collapsing on him every time he touches the ball. The other team does this daring any of your other players to make a shot. They can't make these shots consistently. This team is shooting .408 from the field. Barely 40%. That is with a Cameron on the schedule.

Virginia shot 59% from the field, 73% from 3 point range, so you didn't play defense either. You normally would say that the bright spot was rebounding, where UNT held a 34-28 rebounding advantage. But, when the other team is hammering home almost 60% of their shots, it doesn't leave a lot of clean up on the boards (hence UNT having 21 offensive boards, yet only 13 defensive boards... see what happenes when you can't shoot?). Virginia only had 9 offensive boards, but, then again, they really didn't have to do too much offensive rebounding. Meanwhile, we were struggling to shoot 36% from the field, including a typically bad 15% from 3 point range.

I hope your right and this thing gets on track for 20 wins, but I just don't see it happening to the point of a 20 win season. Jordan Williams takes too many shots and will ALWAYS take the bad shot at a bad time (see when we had the lead cut to 9 and he chunks a 3 on the first touch on the offensive end). The more concerning aspect is defense and rebounding. When you have comparably talented teams, this is all about heart, hustle, and desire. We were outrebounded by a freaking D2 school and allowed them to score 79 on us. That tells you everything you need to know.

We have played over 1/5 of the schedule. That is a fairly decent sample size.

I think we end up like last year. Close to .500 in conference and somewhere between 14-16 wins before the conference tournament.

So disappointing.

Edited November 21, 2012 by UNT90

smoothfresh · November 21, 2012

This season is clearly over already. Please someone start the returning players and newcomers we have for 2013... i'll handle researching Benford's resume to ensure he really did get a degree where he said he did....

We've had one freakin home game (no conference games).. lets tap the breaks on how this season pans out.

I can't wait till next Wednesday when we get in the flow of having games and enjoying the confines of the Super Pit and more importantly the "pops" in the Mean Green room beforehand.

CMJ · November 21, 2012

UTA is obviously a huge game for a variety of reasons (local rival,, decent opponent, 1st real home game). If we lose that one, my outlook for the this season is gonna be considerably dimmer. Not because UTA hasn't beaten us before in some of our good seasons, but just because we haven't shown much as far as beating quality opponents (and UTA is always gonna be one under Scott Cross), and I think we need to before SBC play begins.

If we win though, I still think we can turn this around and have a successful campaign. UTA matches up similarly with SBC teams, so it'll give us a good indication I think.

Edited November 21, 2012 by CMJ

MeanGreenTexan · November 21, 2012

Look,

Everyone who is saying to tame "unfair", or "lofty" expectations on this team need to turn around and say the exact same thing to the player who put the expectations there in the first place: Tony Mitchell.

http://www.dentonrc....staying-put.ece

“We are going to be a sight to see,” Mitchell said. “We want to reach all of our goals, go to the NCAA tournament and win a national championship for North Texas.”

The last thing that I, or anyone else lamenting these losses, want is for this special season to be torpedoed by this odd line change gimmick.

We're watching this team fall behind good/great teams, only to find some chemistry and battle back (or "make it interesting"), and because of these wacky line changes, have their momentum annihilated.

If this team doesn't find some continuity soon, they will be relying on winning the SBC tourney to get into the NCAA's. And if we don't win, I wonder if we'll get even a sniff for the NIT? If this is the case, this season is a failure.

Glass half-full, glass half-empty, who cares? Either way, there is room for more. Expect more.

There is a revenge game coming against UTA for these guys. There should be no doubt we win this game.

Then, a game that should give us a barometer reset against an SBC foe.

Then, another shot at a legit team. Another ~20pt loss should not be expected/accepted.

The IUPUI game was impressive, but the other games have been "meets expectations" or "does not meet expectations".

GrandGreen · November 21, 2012

Not the start that anyone wanted, but the team is not nearly as bad as many portray. Losing to Creighton and Virginia away is something most teams would do. Sans the AH game the season is about were most thought. Now many think that no one can play, Benford is out of his depth, and NT will be lucky to go .500 in the Belt. Way to early to come to any of those conclusions.

NT is definitely not the top 50 team at this point that I and many others hoped for, but neither are they no better than a .500 Belt club.

Benford like JJ has not found a way to utilize TM efficiently. Many may have forgot that even Belt teams fairly well neutralized him late in the season last year. Coleman was supposed to take the pressure off and allow him to play the four and for whatever reason that has not happened. Likewise, NT bad outside shooting is allowing teams to smother Tony in the post.

Jones and J. Williams are great athletes by NT standards and they have been only occasionally effective and seldom in the same game. When those gel, I think it is not a question of will but when; NT is going to be very good. Franklin and Alzee are always dependable, and Holmen is Holmen. When Patton gets completely well he will add another big weapon.

JJ's teams' seldom played well till the Belt tournament, I hope for more out of Benford and this team. This team has too much talent to give up on after six games.

Edited November 21, 2012 by GrandGreen

Harry · November 21, 2012

Not the start that anyone wanted, but the team is not nearly as bad as many portray. Losing to Creighton and Virginia away is something most teams would do. Sans the AH game the season is about were most thought. Now many think that no one can play, Benford is out of his depth, and NT will be lucky to go .500 in the Belt. Way to early to come to any of those conclusions.

NT is definitely not the top 50 team at this point that I and many others hoped for, but neither are they no better than a .500 Belt club.

Benford like JJ has not found a way to utilize TM efficiently. Many may have forgot that even Belt teams fairly well neutralized him late in the season last year. Coleman was supposed to take the pressure off and allow him to play the four and for whatever reason that has not happened. Likewise, NT bad outside shooting is allowing teams to smother Tony in the post.

Jones and J. Williams are great athletes by NT standards and they have been only occasionally effective and seldom in the same game. When those gel, I don't I think it is not a question of will but when; NT is going to be very good. Franklin and Alzee are always dependable, and Holmen is Holmen. When Patton gets completely well he will add another big weapon.

JJ's teams' seldom played well till the Belt tournament, I hope for more out of Benford and this team. This team has too much talent to give up on after six games.

Solid post Grand. I agree 100%

drex · November 21, 2012

Here is another dirty little secret....when you plan quality opponents at their place you are 10 points down when you step on the court. Another dirty little secret...Johnny's success was filled with cream puffs. We are not playing cream puffs to start the season. I just wish we could make our home attendance good enough to cause visitors to be down 10 points when they step on the floor. Calm down, it's still going to be a good solid year for us.

CMJ · November 21, 2012

Here is another dirty little secret....when you plan quality opponents at their place you are 10 points down when you step on the court. Another dirty little secret...Johnny's success was filled with cream puffs. We are not playing cream puffs to start the season. I just wish we could make our home attendance good enough to cause visitors to be down 10 points when they step on the floor. Calm down, it's still going to be a good solid year for us.

JJ also never lost to a D2 school.

UNT90 · November 21, 2012

Not the start that anyone wanted, but the team is not nearly as bad as many portray. Losing to Creighton and Virginia away is something most teams would do. Sans the AH game the season is about were most thought. Now many think that no one can play, Benford is out of his depth, and NT will be lucky to go .500 in the Belt. Way to early to come to any of those conclusions.

NT is definitely not the top 50 team at this point that I and many others hoped for, but neither are they no better than a .500 Belt club.

Benford like JJ has not found a way to utilize TM efficiently. Many may have forgot that even Belt teams fairly well neutralized him late in the season last year. Coleman was supposed to take the pressure off and allow him to play the four and for whatever reason that has not happened. Likewise, NT bad outside shooting is allowing teams to smother Tony in the post.

Jones and J. Williams are great athletes by NT standards and they have been only occasionally effective and seldom in the same game. When those gel, I think it is not a question of will but when; NT is going to be very good. Franklin and Alzee are always dependable, and Holmen is Holmen. When Patton gets completely well he will add another big weapon.

JJ's teams' seldom played well till the Belt tournament, I hope for more out of Benford and this team. This team has too much talent to give up on after six games.

There is much more to basketball than offense. Defense and rebounding are huge concerns so far.

Put your head in the sand if you want, but this thing has problems.

JJ has nothing to do with the here and now. Let him go, people.

Edited November 21, 2012 by UNT90

hickoryhouse · November 21, 2012

Of course this thing has problems, thats the HC's job to fix. 6 Games is a good number of games but it isn't the entire season. Benford will get the rebounding and defense on track. We need someone to step up to be an additional offensive threat outside to give Tony some room underneath. But the staff and the team know these things.

I, like everyone else here, is a bit underwhelmed by the start this year. But it is only the start. We can still come out of this like champs. Give it some time, relax and try to enjoy the ride. This should be a good team and I believe that it will be. We can't ignore the isues that we see but at this point in the season we can't get derailed by them either.

Have some faith in the life long basketballer HC that we hired and that everyone of us was excited about. He knows what he is doing.

Censored by Laurie · November 21, 2012

Benford will get the rebounding and defense on track. He knows what he is doing.

Obviously we all hope you're right...I (and many) just simply haven't seen anything that leads us to believe that's an accurate statement.

UNT90 · November 21, 2012

Obviously we all hope you're right...I (and many) just simply haven't seen anything that leads us to believe that's an accurate statement.

Especially when the head coach tells you that this was his focus in Fall practice.

H-towngreen · November 21, 2012

I'm still wondering about the Coleman situation. It just makes too much sense for him to play. Allows TM to move to the 4 to free him up a little more on the offensive side. KC has shown in his few minutes of playing time that he can grab some boards. It just doesn't make any sense.

UNT90 · November 21, 2012

Calm down, it's still going to be a good solid year for us.

By the old standards, yes. This year was not supposed to be "solid" by the old UNT standards. It was supposed to be a year that established us as a regional power.

To have absolutely no hope of winning against St. Louis and Lehigh is not what any of us anticipated coming into this thing.

MeanGreenTexan · November 21, 2012

By the old standards, yes. This year was not supposed to be "solid" by the old UNT standards. It was supposed to be a year that established us as a regional power.

To have absolutely no hope of winning against St. Louis and Lehigh is not what any of us anticipated coming into this thing.

Bingo. This year, we were supposed to "take the next step".

I'm hoping the guys prove us wrong though. This thing can still 'click' at some point...

greenminer · November 21, 2012

OK the saint louis game is the last shot at this being any kind of a special regular season. If we don't win that game (and right now there are not a lot of indications of tht happening) it will be another season of: if you win the conference tourney you go to the NCAAs, otherwhise not. If you get there you are a 14th seed at best but in any case, even if we make it, we end up with very little to zero chance of advancing a round. This is frustrating and an underachievement for this kind of talent level, and honnestly the coach should shoulder a big part of the blame for this.

It's already been discussed: it is near impossible to get an at-large bid for us. We have been in the position you just described since we lost to Creighton and UAH. We can win out, but if we lose in the tourney before the semis our chances of consideration are practically none.

It doesn't matter. This team and staff, despite showing marginal improvement (at best) during the 3 game win streak, has demonstrated there is no way we dominate the Belt.

Man, that sounded harsh. But I'm trying to convey to you what has already been made clear to many of us: it is freakin' hard, 25+ win seasons be damned, to get an at-large.

The miracle that needs to happen is a win against St. Louis, and consistent showings moving forward of not just wins...but wins that get us noticed and top-25 consideration. We need that kind of team from here until March. Then and only then can I see us being even considered if we fail to win the tourney.

Edited November 21, 2012 by greenminer

ForneyGreen · November 21, 2012

It's already been discussed: it is near impossible to get an at-large bid for us. We have been in the position you just described since we lost to Creighton and UAH. We can win out, but if we lose in the tourney before the semis our chances of consideration are practically none.

It doesn't matter. This team and staff, despite showing marginal improvement (at best) during the 3 game win streak, has demonstrated there is no way we dominate the Belt.

Man, that sounded harsh. But I'm trying to convey to you what has already been made clear to many of us: it is freakin' hard, 25+ win seasons be damned, to get an at-large.

I think the UTA game on Wed will tell us a *whole* lot about this team. It is a home game against a pretty tough opponent. We have 7 games under our belts, so we need to be able to go out and win this type of game. If the team is gelling at all and if things are coming together, this is a game you have to win.

UNT90 · November 21, 2012

I think the UTA game on Wed will tell us a *whole* lot about this team. It is a home game against a pretty tough opponent. We have 7 games under our belts, so we need to be able to go out and win this type of game. If the team is gelling at all and if things are coming together, this is a game you have to win.

UTA lost their top 2 scorers from last year. We play them at home. We should win this game.

If we don't...

oldguystudent · November 22, 2012

I'm never going to allow myself to get stressed and angry like I did during the Dodge years. But my expectations for this basketball season have plummeted. I'm so far quite disappointed.

Green P1 · November 22, 2012

I'm never going to allow myself to get stressed and angry like I did during the Dodge years. But my expectations for this basketball season have plummeted. I'm so far quite disappointed.

. You've got to vent the rage bro. It's healthy. Let it all out.

UNTLifer · November 22, 2012

To have absolutely no hope of winning against St. Louis and Lehigh is not what any of us anticipated coming into this thing.

Why do we not have a hope of winning? We are playing the game, aren't we?

outoftown · November 22, 2012

Bingo. This year, we were supposed to "take the next step".

I'm hoping the guys prove us wrong though. This thing can still 'click' at some point...

My thoughts exactly. But this thing needs to start clicking quickly.

If we do not get a signiature win in OOC play then the national media will not notice anymore what happens afterwards. If the national media don't notice, even if we get to the tournament, we will be stuck with a 14th seed at best in the tourney and with little chance to advance. It is as bad as this: if we end up with a 24-6 record and the signature win is MTSU, the signature loss to a D II team, then the comittee will not care at all that 24-6 looks nice. They will stick us as 14 or 15.

This is not how a breakout year to become the regional powerhouse looks. This chance is probable to not come again for a looong time if it s squandered this time. Very, very frustrating.