Conference Upheaval

Mean Green 93-98 · November 19, 2012

This rant is based on the thread " but I didn't want to derail that thread too badly

When all of this conference upheaval started a year or two ago, everyone said it would be good for North Texas. It has been good in that it has led to our invitation to C-USA that we have been coveting all these years. But the rate at which it's happening has not been good for North Texas and it has not been good for college football. The C-USA we have joined is not nearly as enticing as the one we had hoped for a couple of years ago, a C-USA including Houston, SMU, UCF, and Memphis. Now we will be in a conference with more new entrants to the ranks of FBS than the conference we are leaving. The only Sun Belt team joining us in that conference is the team which generated the absolute least interest among the UNT fanbase.

By all accounts, we were C-USA's first choice to add . . . FIU was close . . . but we were ahead of LaTech, ahead of Charlotte, ahead of Old Dominion, and certainly ahead of UT-San Antonio. We didn't need a major upheaval in the conference landscape to receive a C-USA invitation. We just needed one change in C-USA to get an invitation. We may not have even needed a member to leave, as they are expanding to become a larger conference than they were before. But we could have been in a more attractive C-USA if there had been less conference upheaval.

With Maryland and Rutgers apparently joining the Big 10, they will at the same time make both the conferences they are leaving and also the conference they are joining worse. The fallout will of course hit the lower conferences, as the BE and ACC will probably hit C-USA for at least one replacement (there goes ECU). We're left with a bunch of conferences that make no geographical sense, with schools in those conferences who have no tradition with each other, so that's not great for college football in general.

Of course, the timing of the upheaval is terrible. If the spots in the BE had opened up just 3-4 years ago, there is no way that SMU would have been invited. And it's too bad that all this conference upheaval is taking place while North Texas's program is so down.

I wish things would slow down.

DallasGreen · November 19, 2012

It could be worse we still have Tulsa and they are definitely the class team of the new CUSA, and the closeness of UTSA, Tulane, LA Tech, UTEP,Rice, and Tulsa are also a plus. That being said 2013 is time to get it going and for Mac to put his best players on the field rather than redshirting in droves. We can't afford a four year building program. It's time to show up in 2013 or there need to be some big shake ups in recruiting, administration, and dare I say coaching. After three years there is no excuse for being the smallest and by far the slowest team in D-1 FB!!!

Rudy · November 19, 2012

Exactly why winning next year is NOT an option, but a necessity.

Edited November 19, 2012 by Rudy

DeepGreen · November 19, 2012

My fear is that Tulsa and possibly UTEP bolt for the MWC, leaving CUSA in shambles. Big East could easily invite East Carolina and possibly Louisiana Tech.

Mean Green 93-98 · November 19, 2012

It could be worse we still have Tulsa and they are definitely the class team of the new CUSA,

My fear is that Tulsa and possibly UTEP bolt for the MWC, leaving CUSA in shambles. Big East could easily invite East Carolina and possibly Louisiana Tech.

I definitely wouldn't rule out Tulsa to the Big East. LaTech to the BE would definitely surprise me at this point.

STE · November 19, 2012

The ACC will likely fill Maryland's spot with Connecticut. The BE will then have to fill U Conn's spot and Rutgers. This means that the BE will have to take two teams from CUSA if it is to survive.

The BE could implode but it seems more likely that it will just simply take ECU +1 but none of the Eastern schools from CUSA currently playing D1 football come from big markets (other than FIU and I can’t see that happening).

All bets are off if the Big twelve takes Florida State and Louisville.

If CUSA implodes I’m hoping that we can fill TCU’s old spot in the Mountain West.

We just need to be proactive in this mess.

Edited November 19, 2012 by STE

casual fan · November 19, 2012

We're in such a better position now. Our division of CUSA should be pretty stable. We finally have local rivals that are recognizable. CUSA should add 2 more schools to help insure against any future defections.

It could be worse we still have Tulsa and they are definitely the class team of the new CUSA, and the closeness of UTSA, Tulane, LA Tech, UTEP,Rice, and Tulsa are also a plus. That being said 2013 is time to get it going and for Mac to put his best players on the field rather than redshirting in droves. We can't afford a four year building program. It's time to show up in 2013 or there need to be some big shake ups in recruiting, administration, and dare I say coaching. After three years there is no excuse for being the smallest and by far the slowest team in D-1 FB!!!

The only team I looked up and compared us against was Kansas State. Our starters out weighed them on both sides of the ball. McCarney has recruited size. We should have a good bit more talent next year. I just hope it translates into a winning season and a bowl bid.

GreenFlag · November 19, 2012

So much going on and so many path's this could take. Here is my best guess.

The SMU's and Houston's of the world want together in a "separation" conference different from the MWC, MAC, CUSA, and SBC. That conference will span from coast to coast.

It's just silly to have 2 conferences each with team(s) in both Texas and Florida. Just split CUSA and the SBC already.

When this is all sorted out my very early prediction is that we will be in a conference with the leftovers in Texas, Arkansas, and Louisiana.

UNT

UTSA

Texas State

Rice

Tulane

La Tech

ULL

+ 2 or 3 others. Could be UTEP, Tulsa if they haven't found a better home but I think they find themselves a way out.

Bottom line we need to worry about ourselves and not the company we keep.

Mean Green 93-98 · November 19, 2012

The SMU's and Houston's of the world want together in a "separation" conference different from the MWC, MAC, CUSA, and SBC. That conference will span from coast to coast.

It's just silly to have 2 conferences each with team(s) in both Texas and Florida. Just split CUSA and the SBC already.

I imagine everyone in C-USA is like SMU and Houston in that respect . . . they also want to be in a "separation" conference. Separate from the Sun Belt. No one in C-USA would be okay with splitting that way.

When this is all sorted out my very early prediction is that we will be in a conference with the leftovers in Texas, Arkansas, and Louisiana.

UNT
UTSA
Texas State
Rice
Tulane
La Tech
ULL
+ 2 or 3 others. Could be UTEP, Tulsa if they haven't found a better home but I think they find themselves a way out.

I imagine they would find a way out if C-USA were to merge with the Belt. All the more reason to make sure it doesn't happen.

Bottom line we need to worry about ourselves and not the company we keep.

Conference affilation is all about the company we keep. Yes, building a winning program is more important, but conference affilation--and who is in your conference--means something. That is why at least one one-loss SEC team is guaranteed to play in the BCS Championship Game, but no other one-loss team in the country has a chance to play in it. In a C-USA with strong Houston, USM, SMU, ECU, UCF, and Tulsa teams, we at least have a chance to be ranked if we go 10-2.

Although I disagree with portions of your post, I appreciate it . . . it made me think!

Edited November 19, 2012 by Mean Green 93-98

Mean Green 93-98 · November 19, 2012

I should have known better than to "unignore" the above post. When I said, "By all accounts," I was not referring to press releases, I was referring to comments made by C-USA insiders.

Cerebus · November 19, 2012

Puke

This is the same troll that has posted her for years under different names.

Admins, why has this not been addressed?

Christopher Walker · November 19, 2012

All bets are off if the Big twelve takes Florida State and Louisville.

If CUSA implodes I’m hoping that we can fill TCU’s old spot in the Mountain West.

We just need to be proactive in this mess.

The Big12 is seriously considering them? Yikes.

And Mountain West is not where I other students would want to be.

GrayEagle · November 19, 2012

The madness continues for no apparent reason. Other than perhaps the size of the TV contract there is no difference in the Big East, CUSA and the Mountain West. So to counteract that I'd like to see the three consort to negotiate a TV contract for the three conferences together and divide the three conferences geographically.

BIG EAST

Charlotte

Cincinnati

Connecticut

East Carolina

FIU

Louisville

Marshall

Navy

Old Dominion

South Florida

Temple

UCF

CUSA

Houston

Louisiana Tech

Memphis

North Texas

Rice

SMU

Southern Miss

Tulane

Tulsa

UAB

UTEP

UTSA

MOUNTAIN WEST

Air Force

Boise State

Colorado State

Fresno State

Hawaii

Nevada

New Mexico

San Diego State

San Jose State

UNLV

Utah State

Wyoming

Boise State and San Diego State can have all of their athletic teams in the same conference. Houston, SMU and Memphis can greatly reduce travel costs. Equitable distribution of the TV contract based on market and/or attendance, etc. would minimize the need for conference jumping. Rivalries can renew. Sanity can return.

forevereagle · November 19, 2012

Sanity can return.

Exactly why it will not happen.

GreenFlag · November 19, 2012

I imagine everyone in C-USA is like SMU and Houston in that respect . . . they also want to be in a "separation" conference. Separate from the Sun Belt. No one in C-USA would be okay with splitting that way.

I imagine they would find a way out if C-USA were to merge with the Belt. All the more reason to make sure it doesn't happen.

Conference affilation is all about the company we keep. Yes, building a winning program is more important, but conference affilation--and who is in your conference--means something. That is why at least one one-loss SEC team is guaranteed to play in the BCS Championship Game, but no other one-loss team in the country has a chance to play in it. In a C-USA with strong Houston, USM, SMU, ECU, UCF, and Tulsa teams, we at least have a chance to be ranked if we go 10-2.

Although I disagree with portions of your post, I appreciate it . . . it made me think!

I guess I'm just trying to say we're stuck. BTW Houston, SMU, and UCF are gone and ECU and Tulsa have one foot out the door.The Big XII and The New Big East whatever the heck they will call it will not happen for us now or the near future.

I am not saying we should just accept our plight and not strive to do better. I'm just saying we are stuck like almost every other school in the MAC, SBC, MWC, and CUSA.

Let's face it - the CUSA left behinds HATE their new conference. Some like ECU and Tulsa have delivered only to be left behind. Others like Rice and Tulane were once pround members of more presitigous conferences but have been relagated to a conference with members they NEVER thought they would be associated with. Every SBC school wanted in CUSA but CUSA 3.0 is spread from El Paso to Virginia. Does average Joe UNT fan give a flip about UAB or Charlotte? No! You may know about ECU or Southern Miss like you knew about Nevada, Utah State, and Boise in the Big West. You knew but it just doesn't register with about anyone else. There are some good programs in each conference and dogs with fleas in each. Since everybody hates their situation, just hate it regionally.

I don't think you make CUSA appreciably better by cherry picking the freaking Sun Belt and MAC. Is being in a conference with UAB better than being in a conference with Texas State? There is just not that big of difference. I have never understood why if school X is 4 States away that is somehow more prestigious than school Y in your own State when the academic/athletic profile is about the same.

untjim1995 · November 19, 2012

The madness continues for no apparent reason. Other than perhaps the size of the TV contract there is no difference in the Big East, CUSA and the Mountain West. So to counteract that I'd like to see the three consort to negotiate a TV contract for the three conferences together and divide the three conferences geographically.

BIG EAST
Charlotte
Cincinnati
Connecticut
East Carolina
FIU
Louisville
Marshall
Navy
Old Dominion
South Florida
Temple
UCF

CUSA
Houston
Louisiana Tech
Memphis
North Texas
Rice
SMU
Southern Miss
Tulane
Tulsa
UAB
UTEP
UTSA

MOUNTAIN WEST
Air Force
Boise State
Colorado State
Fresno State
Hawaii
Nevada
New Mexico
San Diego State
San Jose State
UNLV
Utah State
Wyoming

Boise State and San Diego State can have all of their athletic teams in the same conference. Houston, SMU and Memphis can greatly reduce travel costs. Equitable distribution of the TV contract based on market and/or attendance, etc. would minimize the need for conference jumping. Rivalries can renew. Sanity can return.

I will bet you that UConn goes to the ACC. But the big questions are if the ACC loses some of its bigger football schools or if the Big East shifts back to being a basketball-only conference. Its not hard to see the ACC lose FSU, Clemson, Ga Tech, and Miami to the Big XII to get more money--Pitt and Louisville would also be nice targets to get to 16. The SEC and B1G would take the rest of the ACC's best parts (UNC and UVA to the B1G) with NC State and Va Tech to the SEC. That gets you to 16 for each of those three leagues and then the Pac-12 probably stays at 12. Then, Uconn, Duke, Wake Forest, BC, Syracuse and Cincinnati make up a new Big East with Houston, SMU, Memphis, Temple, USF and UCF. I still think Boise State and SDSU will go back to the MWC when its all said and done. In this scenario, not much will change at all for CUSA.

Now, if the ACC gets UConn to replace Maryland and can hold the line with its current lineup, I wouldn't be surprised to see the ACC poach Louisville and Cincinnati to get to 16. Then, the spotlight goes back to the Bevo12 and the stupid LHN, which I still believe will be the downfall of the Bevo12. I see Texas, most likely, taking Tech, OU, and OSU to the Pac-16. Then, the B1G goes after Kansas and K-State to get to 16 and the SEC holds ground at 14, maybe making a move for two of those ACC schools, knowing that the ACC will just fill back up with two other BE schools. This scenario would greatly affect CUSA, since the Big East would probably replace them with CUSA and MWC schools that have been playing there for quite sometime. It wouldn't be hard to see Tulsa, East Carolina, and Southern Miss as BE repalcements, nor would it be hard to see the AFA, Colorado State, or Fresno State also invited. Hopefully, at that point, we would get an MWC invite with UTEP. I don't care much for playing in CUSA if all of the teams mentioned earlier are gone and replaced by SBC and WAC leftovers.

Mean Green 93-98 · November 19, 2012

I guess I'm just trying to say we're stuck. BTW Houston, SMU, and UCF are gone and ECU and Tulsa have one foot out the door.The Big XII and The New Big East whatever the heck they will call it will not happen for us now or the near future.

I am not saying we should just accept our plight and not strive to do better. I'm just saying we are stuck like almost every other school in the MAC, SBC, MWC, and CUSA.

Let's face it - the CUSA left behinds HATE their new conference. Some like ECU and Tulsa have delivered only to be left behind. Others like Rice and Tulane were once pround members of more presitigous conferences but have been relagated to a conference with members they NEVER thought they would be associated with. Every SBC school wanted in CUSA but CUSA 3.0 is spread from El Paso to Virginia. Does average Joe UNT fan give a flip about UAB or Charlotte? No! You may know about ECU or Southern Miss like you knew about Nevada, Utah State, and Boise in the Big West. You knew but it just doesn't register with about anyone else. There are some good programs in each conference and dogs with fleas in each. Since everybody hates their situation, just hate it regionally.

I don't think you make CUSA appreciably better by cherry picking the freaking Sun Belt and MAC. Is being in a conference with UAB better than being in a conference with Texas State? There is just not that big of difference. I have never understood why if school X is 4 States away that is somehow more prestigious than school Y in your own State when the academic/athletic profile is about the same.

I can think of several schools in the new C-USA that I would gladly trade out for Texas State. *cough*UTSA*cough* And I wouldn't have minded taking one or two of our old Belt brethren (other than FIU) with us to C-USA. But by and large, the new C-USA is better than the Belt. I still believe that any Sun Belt team that C-USA offered would gladly jump at it. If you have any doubts, go back and watch Texas State's dismal "joining the Sun Belt" press conference for a reminder. As such, the C-USA teams are not going to go for a merger with the Belt that would devalue their own conference affiliation.

untjim1995 · November 19, 2012

I guess I'm just trying to say we're stuck. BTW Houston, SMU, and UCF are gone and ECU and Tulsa have one foot out the door.The Big XII and The New Big East whatever the heck they will call it will not happen for us now or the near future.

I am not saying we should just accept our plight and not strive to do better. I'm just saying we are stuck like almost every other school in the MAC, SBC, MWC, and CUSA.

Let's face it - the CUSA left behinds HATE their new conference. Some like ECU and Tulsa have delivered only to be left behind. Others like Rice and Tulane were once pround members of more presitigous conferences but have been relagated to a conference with members they NEVER thought they would be associated with. Every SBC school wanted in CUSA but CUSA 3.0 is spread from El Paso to Virginia. Does average Joe UNT fan give a flip about UAB or Charlotte? No! You may know about ECU or Southern Miss like you knew about Nevada, Utah State, and Boise in the Big West. You knew but it just doesn't register with about anyone else. There are some good programs in each conference and dogs with fleas in each. Since everybody hates their situation, just hate it regionally.

I don't think you make CUSA appreciably better by cherry picking the freaking Sun Belt and MAC. Is being in a conference with UAB better than being in a conference with Texas State? There is just not that big of difference. I have never understood why if school X is 4 States away that is somehow more prestigious than school Y in your own State when the academic/athletic profile is about the same.

Two things about your post:

1.) if ECU and USM leave, it would stink, but you'd probably see Marshall go back to the MAC and we'd still have our legitimate travel partners in Tulsa, LA Tech, UTEP, and UTSA, so if we picked up Eastern Belt teams like MTSU, FAU, and WKU, I'd be ok with that.

2.) If UTEP and Tulsa got poached by the MWC and the other Eastern CUSA teams got poached by the BE and we were to see a CUSA left of us, UTSA, La Tech, UAB, Tulane, Rice, Old Dominion, Georgia State, and other SBC leftovers + NMSU, we might be a bit better off than the current SBC, but not much. What it would do is that it would add this hypothetical CUSA to the MAC and SBC as conferences that would be easiily culled from the FBS, leaving the BE and MWC as the only non-FBS conferences for the others to chomp on during non-conference play. If that happens, and we get downgraded again, I just don't know if the UNT program could handle that...it has damn near killed our program that it had to spend 12 years down in 1-aa (FCS) purgatory. I doubt a second turn at that level would go any different for us if it happens again. We have to keep swimming upward--starting to actually win would ensure our membership at this level if this dommsday scenario all played out and we would still be in the FBS business.