Climate change & national security

[GTWT]

Climate change isn't just about government poking its nose in your business. It has real life consequences - including implications for national security. Here's an interesting article on that topic

http://chronicle.com/article/US-Urged-to-Step-Up-Research/135724/?cid=pm&utm_source=pm&utm_medium=en

[Monkeypox]

While the underlying global causes of the water shortage in Pakistan probably require research, it's intellectually dishonest to point to their shortage as a climate change issue while ignoring the regional population explosion in India, Pakistan, and surrounding areas and how that led to EVERYONE BUT PAKISTAN funding dam projects and building a crap-ton (scientific terms) of dams along rivers (many of which are regionally disputed). Even still, during India's water crisis, they admitted that rainfall was sufficient, but that they didn't properly manage their resources.

Richard Seager has probably done the most research on the subject.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/02/science/earth/02drought.html?_r=0

What happened in Pakistan is that they abandoned reservoir projects, and those around them didn't. Exacerbated a problem that Pakistan had been warned about since the early 2000s.

[GTWT]

This isn't just about Pakistan. The point is there are consequences - global consequences - for sticking our heads in the sand. Science denial makes it very hard to do anything intelligently.

[Monkeypox]

This isn't just about Pakistan. The point is there are consequences - global consequences - for sticking our heads in the sand. Science denial makes it very hard to do anything intelligently.

LOL. This article, however, does more harm than good, IMO. Fact of the matter is that they should be studying these as possible scenarios, regardless of cause. Of course, they already are. The situation in Pakistan (which the article uses as its prime example) is far more complex and not necessarily related to global climate change as much as it is population growth and improper infrastructure to handle it. These problems are already inherently anthropogenic. It's not about having your head in the sound. It's about practicing intellectual honesty and staying away from the kind of alarmism that gives good science a bad name.

But "OMG CLIMATE CHANGE CAUSED A WATER SHORTAGE IN PAKISTAN AND INDIA AND THEY'VE GOT NUKES THE WORLD IS ENDING!!!!!" sells pretty well.

The fact of the matter is they already study how all of these micro events - water shortages, blackouts, riots, etc. can potentially effect national security. The article admits as much and then goes on to say that the study doubts the ability to appropriately and efficiently respond to these events anyway. If the cause were "Alien Invasion," it would be just as relevant.

Population Growth ------> Cimate Change-------> Disaster

[GTWT]

Population Growth ------> Cimate Change-------> Disaster

The equation is valid.

Given the coming disaster, I think sounding an alarm is appropriate. Half of America's political spectrum insists the science is wrong, the other half is willing to ignore reality for political gain. Both sides are choosing short-term gain over long-term good. Articles such as this, that add a near-term incentive for addressing climate change, can only do good.

[Monkeypox]

The equation is valid.

Given the coming disaster, I think sounding an alarm is appropriate. Half of America's political spectrum insists the science is wrong, the other half is willing to ignore reality for political gain. Both sides are choosing short-term gain over long-term good. Articles such as this, that add a near-term incentive for addressing climate change, can only do good.

And because the equation is valid, you'd be hard pressed to find an answer to C) Disaster without addressing A) Population Growth.

Before you sound an alarm, you'd better have a solid plan. Otherwise, you've got a bunch of idiots running into each other creating chaos and exacerbating the situation, and that's pretty much what US energy policy l has looked like since the 80s.

[meangreener]

http://www.globalwarming.org/2012/08/03/john-christy-climate-data-maven/

http://www.inquisitr.com/224934/global-warming-scientist-james-lovelock-admits-to-being-an-alarmist/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamestaylor/2012/10/31/leave-it-to-the-global-warming-alarmists-to-make-fake-lemonade-out-of-hurricane-sandy/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/nov/11/poles-scientists-antarctic-sea-ice

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/07/30/New-Study-Crushes-Global-Warming-Data-Claims

I'm not saying it's not climate change isn't happening (it is, FAR more gradually), I'm saying this is idiotic, and this article is useless alarmist BS.

[GTWT]

And because the equation is valid, you'd be hard pressed to find an answer to C) Disaster without addressing A) Population Growth.

Before you sound an alarm, you'd better have a solid plan. Otherwise, you've got a bunch of idiots running into each other creating chaos and exacerbating the situation, and that's pretty much what US energy policy l has looked like since the 80s.

Certainly over-population is the greatest problem we face. Too many people is the root cause of most of the important issues confronting our species. Our chance of consciously doing something about it - of making a decision to curb human population growth - is, unfortunately, near zero. It would be like bacteria on a petri dish deciding during the exponential growth phase that they need to stop dividing before disaster strikes. Man is no more capable than E. coli of choosing long-term good over short-term profit.

Having said that, I have this irrational optimism that we can do something to make some of the crises we face survivable. We can choose to release less fossil C into the atmosphere. If we do maybe that will buy us some of the time we need to address the ultimate cause of our problem - over-population.

I'm not saying it's not climate change isn't happening (it is, FAR more gradually)

John Christy & Roy Spencer first said climate change wasn't happening, then they said that it was happening but that man wasn't the cause, now they say that climate change is happening, man is a major cause, but it's slower than the models predicted. What will these 'scientists' say tomorrow?

Edited November 16, 2012 by GTWT

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

Certainly over-population is the greatest problem we face. Too many people is the root cause of most of the important issues confronting our species. Our chance of consciously doing something about it - of making a decision to curb human population growth - is, unfortunately, near zero. It would be like bacteria on a petri dish deciding during the exponential growth phase that they need to stop dividing before disaster strikes. Man is no more capable than E. coli of choosing long-term good over short-term profit.

Having said that, I have this irrational optimism that we can do something to make some of the crises we face survivable. We can choose to release less fossil C into the atmosphere. If we do maybe that will buy us some of the time we need to address the ultimate cause of our problem - over-population.

John Christy & Roy Spencer first said climate change wasn't happening, then they said that it was happening but that man wasn't the cause, now they say that climate change is happening, man is a major cause, but it's slower than the models predicted. What will these 'scientists' say tomorrow?

Who knows what their claims tommorrow will be --- but in response to first statement....

Is shutting down groups that give birth-control info and passing out free condoms etc. really the way to go...?? [ besides if you are truely conservative.. that means more welfare for those who can't afford birth control and more educational costs for all of us ]

Note the TV pictures (ads) of starving kids in foreign countries... it is mostly because those countries have a birth rate is so high that they can not feed, house,and provide for the rapid population growth.

[UNTexas]

It's a good thing we humans were around to end the last ice age!

[GTWT]

It's a good thing we humans were around to end the last ice age!

We didn't cause the last ice age. We are causing climate change. It only seems intelligent to do what we can to prevent as much of the harm as we can.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Who knows what their claims tommorrow will be --- but in response to first statement....

Is shutting down groups that give birth-control info and passing out free condoms etc. really the way to go...?? [ besides if you are truely conservative.. that means more welfare for those who can't afford birth control and more educational costs for all of us ]

Note the TV pictures (ads) of starving kids in foreign countries... it is mostly because those countries have a birth rate is so high that they can not feed, house,and provide for the rapid population growth.

We pay for it one way of the other, either (1) in welfare, or (2) now that we have national health care, for the drugs and medical services for the people who can't control their libidos and end up with HIV.

The gensis of every type of problem you can think of is the same - stupid people who do not plan ahead in life. Whether it's governmental or personal...makes no difference.

And, the answer is always the same - responsible people (and countries) have to bail out the stupid.

In college, we had a saying, "F*ck the dumb." In other words, ignore them. The problem is that now we are adults, we realize we are constantly paying for the dumb whether we want to or not.

Stupid people are going to be elected to government. You can't change that. The parties have figured out that only a few states matter in national elections, so they target only the stupidest of the stupid in those states, killing themselves to get them to vote. What a picture: the stupid desperately trying to get the stupid to keep re-electing them.

Individually, stupid people are going to pull their dicks out of the pants and f*ck stupid people who spread their legs or bend over for them. You can't fix stupid. But, the government forces you to pay for the results of their sexual stupidity.

If they want to f*ck all they want without getting pregnant, the government wants you to pay for their birth control. If they f*ck each other without birth control and have kids they can't support, the government wants you to pay for their kids' well being...and, their rent, school breakfasts and lunches, health care, etc.

If they f*ck each other and give each other diseases, the government now will have you foot the bill as well through national health care, so they can buy drugs to keep themselves alive long enough to keep f*cking each other and spreading their disease.

You pay and pay and pay because the stupid won't control themselves sexually.

This should be abundantly clear at this point and time in history. This is the story of 21st Century America.

It's not good enough to be responsible for yourself. You've got to support the stupid people as well...otherwise, you are mean, prejudiced, cruel, heartless, homophobic, racist, etc.

You cannot tell the stupid to be smarter. You cannot teach them to be smarter. That is absolutely wrong. The stupid must be able to f*ck and vote, and you must pay for consequences of the stupidity resulting therefrom...

...or, you're not Patriotic or compassionate enough.

Got it?

Edited November 28, 2012 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

As if on cue...here is a picture of the stupid demanding that we pay for the disease cause by their sexual stupidity:

http://news.yahoo.co...s-politics.html

This is 21st Century America. Be proud.

Edited November 28, 2012 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

We pay for it one way of the other, either (1) in welfare, or (2) now that we have national health care, for the drugs and medical services for the people who can't control their libidos and end up with HIV.

The gensis of every type of problem you can think of is the same - stupid people who do not plan ahead in life. Whether it's governmental or personal...makes no difference.

And, the answer is always the same - responsible people (and countries) have to bail out the stupid.

In college, we had a saying, "F*ck the dumb." In other words, ignore them. The problem is that now we are adults, we realize we are constantly paying for the dumb whether we want to or not.

Stupid people are going to be elected to government. You can't change that. The parties have figured out that only a few states matter in national elections, so they target only the stupidest of the stupid in those states, killing themselves to get them to vote. What a picture: the stupid desperately trying to get the stupid to keep re-electing them.

Individually, stupid people are going to pull their dicks out of the pants and f*ck stupid people who spread their legs or bend over for them. You can't fix stupid. But, the government forces you to pay for the results of their sexual stupidity.

If they want to f*ck all they want without getting pregnant, the government wants you to pay for their birth control. If they f*ck each other without birth control and have kids they can't support, the government wants you to pay for their kids' well being...and, their rent, school breakfasts and lunches, health care, etc.

If they f*ck each other and give each other diseases, the government now will have you foot the bill as well through national health care, so they can buy drugs to keep themselves alive long enough to keep f*cking each other and spreading their disease.

You pay and pay and pay because the stupid won't control themselves sexually.

This should be abundantly clear at this point and time in history. This is the story of 21st Century America.

It's not good enough to be responsible for yourself. You've got to support the stupid people as well...otherwise, you are mean, prejudiced, cruel, heartless, homophobic, racist, etc.

You cannot tell the stupid to be smarter. You cannot teach them to be smarter. That is absolutely wrong. The stupid must be able to f*ck and vote, and you must pay for consequences of the stupidity resulting therefrom...

...or, you're not Patriotic or compassionate enough.

Got it?

.

---About all I object to in your rant is the classless language....and lack of understanding of the environment some kids live in. . still providing birth control (and education) is better than the alternative.... and yes some will be too stupid to use it.... but some is better than none. ... because we will have to pay for those kids education (if American) if nothing else. I went to school prior to free school lunches and saw a lot of hungry kids.... The school lunch program is one that makes some sense.... it wasn't their fault they were born... they did nothing wrong and aren't trying to fleece America. Some may actually go to school because of the meal ... better that than having them on the streets doing whatever.

"Let them eat cake!" compares to your college phrase...**** the dumb!... ie. translated: "life is all about us... not them". After all ...they do sweep your floors, clean your restrooms, pick up your garbage, and check you out at Walmart etc. Some of them (not all) are just doing the best they can do.... they didn't get the genes some of us have..... and some just have very little financial resources (my wife, who lost her father as the result of WWII .. still got a college degree because of one was in her hometown... never could have gone off to college) or come from very disfunctional families and never see the opportunities we had. . ... so you want ... Let them eat cake! or what you said.

.

Edited November 28, 2012 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

No. Life is all about them. It's never about us.

That's 21 Century America. We have given up on asking people to be responsible, and have instead turned to requiring that the responsible pay for the irresponsible. There is no incentive for the stupid to act smart anymore. That battle is over. The stupid and their politicians won it long ago.

What part of my rant, as you call it, is wrong? All I'm doing is pointing out the obvious.

Are we not now expected to pay for everyone's birth control to, supposedly, keep them from having children they can't afford and/or catch diseases they can't afford the drugs to treat?

Are we not now expected to pay for everyone's children they can't afford because they don't use the birth control that we have to pay for?

Are we not now expected to pay for everyone's health care when they contract sexual transmitted diseases because they make poor choices sexually?

How is that a rant? All I'm doing is pointing out the obvious.

What you seem to want is for no one to say anything about it. Just pay up and don't ask any questions. And, least of all, don't point out to the stupid the actions that brought them to their current circumstances.

As the actions of the queers in John Boehner's office demonstrate, the stupid are not thankful for what help they do get from those of us who are footing the bill for their irresponsible stupidity, the now brazenly demand that we either keep doing it or increase what we are already paying.

You see where we are, right? We just pay for the stupid to have sex with each other - protected or unprotected, safe or unsafe. That's the point to which this republic has devolved.

Also, they don't sweep my floor or clean my restroom. At this office, it's a pair of guys from Vera Cruz. Mexicans. Same with most fast food restaurants around here. And, they are grateful for the jobs. Believe me, it's not the queers or welfare queens doing anything like sweeping, cleaning, or cashiering.

[Censored by Laurie]

TFLF is sooooooo gay.

[GTWT]

A new study was published on the rapid loss of Polar sea ice. See -

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/11/29/15518574-antarctica-greenland-ice-definitely-melting-into-sea-and-speeding-up-experts-warn?lite&ocid=msnhp&pos=2

This improved certainty allows us to say definitively that both Antarctica and Greenland have been losing ice," lead author Andrew Shepherd of the University of Leeds in Britain, told reporters. Not only that, but the pace has tripled from the 1990s, the data indicate.

[KRAM1]

A new study was published on the rapid loss of Polar sea ice. See -

http://worldnews.nbc...cid=msnhp&pos=2

So, if, as you seem to think, this has ZERO to do with anything natural and reoccurring over time in weather and climate patterns, just what is the solution? The US can't change it alone...so what is your solution for say China, Pakistan, India...to name just a few.?

[GTWT]

So, if, as you seem to think, this has ZERO to do with anything natural and reoccurring over time in weather and climate patterns, just what is the solution? The US can't change it alone...so what is your solution for say China, Pakistan, India...to name just a few.?

The solution is to do what we can. If we don't then we can't expect any other country to do anything at all. The USA should be a leader not a follower.

Oh! There may well be some effect of "natural and recurring" weather patterns but the strong correlation between carbon emissions & CO2 levels in the atmosphere & measures of global mean temperature certainly suggests that human activities are playing a major role in climate change.

You're an intelligent man, KRAM. You know that CO2 is a potent green-house gas. Do you think man can release massive amounts of CO2 into the atmosphere without having an effect on climate?

Edited November 30, 2012 by GTWT

[UNTFan23]

The solution is to do what we can. If we don't then we can't expect any other country to do anything at all. The USA should be a leader not a follower.

Oh! There may well be some effect of "natural and recurring" weather patterns but the strong correlation between carbon emissions & CO2 levels in the atmosphere & measures of global mean temperature certainly suggests that human activities are playing a major role in climate change.

You're an intelligent man, KRAM. You know that CO2 is a potent green-house gas. Do you think man can release massive amounts of CO2 into the atmosphere without having an effect on climate?

The US can choose to be a leader in trying to enact climate change, but my confidence in China being a follower barely moves the needle.

[KRAM1]

The solution is to do what we can. If we don't then we can't expect any other country to do anything at all. The USA should be a leader not a follower.

Oh! There may well be some effect of "natural and recurring" weather patterns but the strong correlation between carbon emissions & CO2 levels in the atmosphere & measures of global mean temperature certainly suggests that human activities are playing a major role in climate change.

You're an intelligent man, KRAM. You know that CO2 is a potent green-house gas. Do you think man can release massive amounts of CO2 into the atmosphere without having an effect on climate?

I think it is foolish and unproductive to place the burden on the U. S. and, while we all do what we can....we need to get the Eco crazies out of it, the politicians to stop playing to the Eco crazy crowd and get some common sense going. Cattle passing gas has been said to do more damage than some of the stuff folks want banned.no one but a fairly poorly educated person on this topic would say that man does not have a role and a part to play in both the cause and the cure here. But, we need solid science and we need common sense. Right now we don't really have very much of either in place.

[GrayEagle]

I say we spend another 10 trillion and maybe then we can lower the total CO2 in the atmosphere 1 or 2%.

[GTWT]

we need to get the Eco crazies out of it, the politicians to stop playing to the Eco crazy crowd and get some common sense going.

The 'eco crazies' are out of it KRAM. The issue was barely mentioned by either party in the last elections.

Cattle passing gas has been said to do more damage than some of the stuff folks want banned.

This has been said by those who don't understand the science behind climate change. Cattle do indeed pass methane, as do you & I, but the carbon in that gas is part of the short-term carbon-cycle. A few weeks before the cow farted, the C in that gas was being fixed by a corn plant from the atmosphere. The carbon that is contributing to climate change is coming from burning fossil fuels that were sequestered millions of years ago.

But, we need solid science and we need common sense. Right now we don't really have very much of either in place.

Actually the science is solid. If you want I'll be glad to post links to statements & assessments from the American Association for the Advancement of Science, the Royal Society, & dozens of other prestigious science organizations. Or, if you rather, you can just believe Fox News.