Just for a little comparison, we could've hired this guy

[oldguystudent]

Mike Leach blasts his own players

[Travis Scott]

Thank God we didn't.

[Greenhorn]

I still like Leach.

[shaft]

By that logic we could also hire Sean Peyton.

[oldguystudent]

By that logic we could also hire Sean Peyton.

Logic? You want logic? Son, you done took a wrong turn somewhere!

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

The spread offense has had its day. It no longer surprises opponents. With the element of surprise gone, Leach is nothing more than a carnival barker.

[eulessismore]

Logic? You want logic? Son, you done took a wrong turn somewhere!

Logic on a sports message board? Fail.

[eulessismore]

The spread offense has had its day. It no longer surprises opponents. With the element of surprise gone, Leach is nothing more than a carnival barker.

I somehow thought he'd fit in out there in the Palouse (an early University President stop for V. Lane Rawlins). Of course, the bare cupboard argument gets a little thin, but what kind of players could that guy Wulff have attracted with the kind of W-L record he put up there? I think Wulff went a long way towards proving that no matter how bad things seem to be, they can always get worse. Mike Price would have done well to have stayed there in Pullman, but it's hard to turn down a place like Alabama.

Then again, maybe Wulff didn't leave such an empty cupboard at Wazzu; and maybe Leach just emptied it out:

http://www.cougcenter.com/2011/11/29/2590112/paul-wulff-fired-wsu-football-head-coach

Of course, the themes of these stories are universal, and the trail of the serpent runs through them all.

Edited November 6, 2012 by eulessismore

[GL2Greatness]

I somehow thought he'd fit in out there in the Palouse (an early University President stop for V. Lane Rawlins). Of course, the bare cupboard argument gets a little thin, but what kind of players could that guy Wulff have attracted with the kind of W-L record he put up there? I think Wulff went a long way towards proving that no matter how bad things seem to be, they can always get worse. Mike Price would have done well to have stayed there in Pullman, but it's hard to turn down a place like Alabama.

Then again, maybe Wulff didn't leave such an empty cupboard at Wazzu; and maybe Leach just emptied it out:

http://www.cougcente...ball-head-coach

Of course, the themes of these stories are universal, and the trail of the serpent runs through them all.

that is not an early university stop for him it is where he retired from in 2007 after being president at Memphis and having other jobs at Alabama

he was a faculty and administration at WSU before leaving to Alabama as well, but he returned to WSU after Memphis to be president there and retired from there in 2007

[Mean Green 93-98]

I would have rather hired Nick Saban or Urban Meyer, myself.

[glick1980]

The spread offense has had its day. It no longer surprises opponents. With the element of surprise gone, Leach is nothing more than a carnival barker.

It sure seems to surprise our defense every Saturday.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

It sure seems to surprise our defense every Saturday.

Being surprised by it versus having the talent to defend it are two separate and distinct issues.

As to Mike Leach, he's got zero championships under his belt as a head coach. He will have zero when he leaves Pullman. He never understands that defense is the key.

Wazzu will be the last school that falls for his magic bean offense. I don't know if he'll fall to the degree of his mentor, Hal Mumme (Division III McMurray...okay, McMurray is II now), but...it will be interesting to see how far the fall is.

[KRAM1]

Washington State is 2-7 right now! Mike Leach = turnaround Guru????? Remind me again how many championships Leach has won as a head coach?

[Grant.UNT]

Washington State is 2-7 right now! Mike Leach = turnaround Guru????? Remind me again how many championships Leach has won as a head coach?

Kram, in all fairness, how many has Mac won as a head coach?

I like Leach. We are preaching patience for Mac to turn us around. It'll take him time too.

[island eagle]

It sure seems to surprise our defense every Saturday.

It surprises our DB's and Linebackers when they are out of position, take bad angles to the play and miss tackles. Some of it is inexperience, some of it appears to be being a step too slow to get away with such mistakes and some it is either the coaches or the players responsibility and I'm not privy enough to know which it is.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Look, here's the truth about any athletic endeavor - you are either athletic enough or you are not.

Very rarely can someone makes themselve more athletic with more training. Yes, I know that strength coaches, etc. exist for a reason. What they do, in my opinion, is get people to their maximum natural potential.

But so what?

Look at what a skinny little runt Deion Sanders was. It didn't matter. He was a naturally gifted athlete. Think what you want of him, but the guy played NFL football and Major League Baseball. He wasn't a bad baseball player either. Had he chosen that full time, he'd have been as successful as he was in the NFL.

The point is, the type of athlete we currently get could train 365 days a year - strenght, speed, agility, whatever - and not be half the athlete of a Deion Sanders.

Look at Jamize Olawale. He was, apparently, the best athlete we had while he was here. At least, the best as far as what NFL teams look for in players.

Did we have coaches that recognized it and maximized it? No. Obviously not.

We are in a situation where we are not going to get athletes like Texas, Alabama, Oregon, etc. So, while our defenders may recognize what is happening on the field, and know what they are supposed to do, they cannot get their bodies to do and do it as quickly as those who are playing with UT, Bama, or Oregon.

Okay, TFLF, then explain the brain farts UT has.

Easy. The other half of the equation is having a coaching staff that know what the hell it is doing. We didn't have it for the better part of four years. A guy like Mack Brown just doesn't have the intensity of a Les Miles or Nick Saban. Nor do his assistants. His best years were when firebrand DCs Muschamp and Chizik were in Austin.

Mike Leach...he doesn't give a fartwhiff about defense, so he'll never succeed to a championship level. He will not ever have the athletes USC or Oregon State does. Maybe he can get Wazzu to rise to the level of 7 to 9 wins a year like he did at Texas Tech. But, as little as people remember who came in second, they remember even less who came in third, fourth, fifth, sixth, etc.

We have decent coaches (we think). But, we don't have elite athletes. Are they good athletes? Well, for Belt level competition, yes. Will a diamond in the rough sometimes emerge? Yes.

The reality, though, is that we've got what we've got; and, what we've got will not dominate even Sun Belt football. Leach does what he does with what Wazzu can get, so...his team gets its ass kicked in most Saturdays.

Edited November 6, 2012 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

[Baby Arm!]

If we are going to play the Would've, Could've, Should've game of coaching hires I'll see your Mike Leach and raise you a Jim Harbaugh. A guy that actually APPLIED for the job at UNT

[UNTP1]

We never could have hired Leach. We couldn't afford him. However, I would've loved for us to hire a coach that took a struggling program and turned it into 10 consecutive winning seasons with 9 consecutive bowl appearances, sounds pretty good to me. That being said, I love Mac and am very glad we got the best coach that we could afford.

[greenminer]

How far can Leach fall?

[KRAM1]

If we are going to play the Would've, Could've, Should've game of coaching hires I'll see your Mike Leach and raise you a Jim Harbaugh. A guy that actually APPLIED for the job at UNT

Are you really 100% certain of that? I mean really 100% certain, like you have actual proof and not hearsay? I have heard so very many different versions of this story that it seems to be taking on a life of its own...I don't know enough to know one way or the other. Actually applying for a job is much much more than simply making an inquiry. Really, don't have the facts...so if you do, I'd love to be able to put this to bed one way or the other. Not sure you are not in that "Would've Could've" thing you mention, but like I said...I don't know. here's hoping that you do and have some real info and facts to back up that statement.

I've asked some various folks in the area where they should know, but get varying cooments and answers....no I have not directly asked RV.

[KRAM1]

Kram, in all fairness, how many has Mac won as a head coach?

I like Leach. We are preaching patience for Mac to turn us around. It'll take him time too.

Grant...I am not comparing him to Mac. I am responding to all those folks who seem to think Leach is the second coming of Jesus Christ on the football field. The guy has won NIL, ZERO, NILCH in the way of championships. If we are going to annoint someone to sainthood in the D1 coaching ranks, shouldn't they at least have to have a chapionship or two as a head coach? Really....

[Greenhorn]

Grant...I am not comparing him to Mac. I am responding to all those folks who seem to think Leach is the second coming of Jesus Christ on the football field. The guy has won NIL, ZERO, NILCH in the way of championships. If we are going to annoint someone to sainthood in the D1 coachi9ng ranks, shouldn't they at least have to have a chapionship or two as a head coach? Really....

Well he did turn Tech into a good program and left it in good shape for ole Tubby. As far as conference championships, at the end they were getting close. Competing with Texas and Oklahoma in the big 12 was a challenge in itself. I think Leach would do great here, but he'd want a big salary. Im open to all philosophies that get you wins at the Sunbelt / CUSA conference level. Im still waiting to see how DMac pans out and think he has this program in the right direction at the very least.

[GrandGreen]

Leach would have been a great candidate other than He would have probably never taken the job, NT could not afford him, and most likely no one in the NT administration wanted him.

To Fake's point, yes and no; I believe that natural talent can not be manufactured no matter how much training. On the other hand there are a lot of kids with talent that develop late and that more than anything else makes bottom tier programs at least a little competitive with the "haves".

The other factor is that hard work, dedication and experience can substantially upgrade a player's ability. That is why you see veteran clubs like ULM that did not really out recruit anybody on paper get a couple of quality players to go with an experienced ball club and do real well for a year.

Any team is usually going to fall into a couple of really talented players no matter how bad they recruit but there has to be a lot more to be successful. Orr and Dunbar for example should not have landed at NT other than both were undersized by big boy standards. They could play for anybody, the problem is that there needs to be a dozen more like them in every class.

[All About UNT]

http://www.sfgate.co...ach-2465174.php

"Harbaugh had interviewed for head coaching jobs at Iowa State, North Texas and Tulane in the past month."

[GL2Greatness]

We never could have hired Leach. We couldn't afford him. However, I would've loved for us to hire a coach that took a struggling program and turned it into 10 consecutive winning seasons with 9 consecutive bowl appearances, sounds pretty good to me. That being said, I love Mac and am very glad we got the best coach that we could afford.

his "turn around" is highly overrated

his conference record was pretty much identical to Spike Dykes and he did most of the "turn around" by taking teams like Ole' Miss, NCState, and Ohio State off the OOC schedule and adding one or sometimes even two D1-AA teams and very crappy D1-A programs to the OOC instead

and Spike would have made a bowl game several more times if there had been 32 bowls to choose from

mike won one or two games more per season with a much easier schedule and 12 games being played he was not a huge "turn around" guy by any stretch of the imagination