The way I see it.

[casual fan]

I won't buy the cupboard is/was bare argument anymore. It doesn't matter if you do get a lot of juco's because college football is such that you always have to recycle players anyways and rebuild on a yearly basis. In our situation and in our league that way play in coaching makes a HUGE difference. Boise State never has high class recruits and never have but they're so coached up there that it makes up for a lack of natural raw talent they may not have compared to the big boys. TCU was the same thing at one point and look at where they are today. I just think it is installed in our minds to make excuses for losing because that is what it has been for our whole history from top to bottom. In today's sports and college sports landscape there isn't much room for that anymore. It is win now time and there is no reason not to expect quicker turnarounds especially given that we're a huge public school located in a region that is a hotbed for recruiting.

In the past four years TCU has had 70 3 star recruits and 9 4 star recruits according to Rivals. We have had 21 that are 3 stars. Dodge had 11 his last 2 yrs but only 2 were from high schools. Not only that, he left us in a deficit scholarship mess that McCarney has had to work through.

The cupboard may have had a can or two of beans, but that was about it.

Winning=good recruiting and good recruiting = winning. That's why so few turnarounds happen in the first 2 years.

Edited October 28, 2012 by casual fan

[UNT90]

Don't really think you can put too much emphasis on last year's win vs MTSU. It was a meaningless game with no real importance in the last game of the season

This game had much more riding on it

Not really comparable

Meanless for both last year, meaningful for both this year.

So Stockstill is the better coach in meaningful games?

Talent. Talent at QB and WR. We just don't have a lot of it.

[Greenhorn]

I'm not calling for anyones head at all. Just saying we should expect to be competitive in games like this.

yes, that is also true.

[adman]

94, 95, 96, & 97

Well, from the looks of the records of those years you guys had some pretty good quit in you too.

'94 - 7-4 (good job)

'95 - 2-9

'96 - 5-6

'97 - 4-7

[UNT90]

Man, what a loss does to this place.

Let's remember we are 18 scholarships below a full load.

EIGHTEEN!!!!!!

We lose 11 seniors this year, so that means even if we sign the maximum allotted amount of 25 kids, we will still be 3 scholarship players short.

If you people really want to be upset about something, you should be upset about the lack of one recruit commitment in the last 2 plus months. Hard to get to 25 at this rate.

That is what scares me the most.

Edited October 28, 2012 by UNT90

[Stan R]

Man, what a loss does to this place.

Let's remember we are 18 scholarships below a full load.

EIGHTEEN!!!!!!

If you people really want to be upset about something, you should be upset about the lack of one recruit commitment in the last 2 plus months.

That is what scares me the most.

For my first post after the MTSU game, I'll put my agreement behind this post. I feel as though this recruiting season may be the most important of Macs time here. Lets get some playmakers!!!

[glick1980]

Meanless for both last year, meaningful for both this year.

So Stockstill is the better coach in meaningful games?

Talent. Talent at QB and WR. We just don't have a lot of it.

And DB....and DL....I would like to know what in the hell happened to Laramie Lee and why he was replaced by a guy that probably runs a 4.9 forty.

[UNT90]

And DB....and DL....I would like to know what in the hell happened to Laramie Lee and why he was replaced by a guy that probably runs a 4.9 forty.

Lee may have been replaced due to injury. I was just addressing the offense. What this defense needs more than anything else is a consistent pass rush.

[UNTLifer]

I am selling knee braces. PM me if interested.

[glick1980]

Man, what a loss does to this place.

Let's remember we are 18 scholarships below a full load.

EIGHTEEN!!!!!!

We lose 11 seniors this year, so that means even if we sign the maximum allotted amount of 25 kids, we will still be 3 scholarship players short.

If you people really want to be upset about something, you should be upset about the lack of one recruit commitment in the last 2 plus months. Hard to get to 25 at this rate.

That is what scares me the most.

I think we are 13 short, I remember Mac said we were at 72.

[glick1980]

Lee may have been replaced due to injury. I was just addressing the offense. What this defense needs more than anything else is a consistent pass rush.

I saw Lee play on special teams against ULL and play just a few plays on D. Not sure if he was reinjured, but he was out there against a little against ULL but he did not start.

[JesseMartin]

I think what bothers me about this sort of debate is that it centers around concepts like "culture" and "spirit", yet is by its nature more divisive than any likely outcome. We would all like to see more successful results in the win column, and if Rick V. and company were to decide that someone else was necessary to fill a post in order to do so, then so be it.

But if we are to discuss our culture and our spirit, I'm curious as to the degree of our collected vested interest in not only our athletic program, but the culture and spirit intended to be inclusive; now, I'm not saying that inclusion should involve the acceptance of mediocrity, not one bit. Rather, I would posit a question of our belief in our own unity. On my end, before UNT gave me my chance, the only thing anyone ever believed about me is that I would get my face bashed into the pavement for the rest of my life. Yet my departure to a new life led me to not only dare to believe in myself, but in the amazing collection of people that seemed to find solidarity where before there was none.

I saw a very divided student body become amicable enough that even those who were on opposing sides on many issues began spending time together outside of class and student organization meetings. I witnessed an administration that had apparently been previously distant and combative with the student population find common enough ground to work with even the most raucous rabble-rousers we had to offer. I witnessed UNT athletes and Greeks engage the rest of the student population in ways that made it silly to think of the "separation" that most speak of. The only time I ever questioned whether someone should retain their employment with our University was when they made a purposeful and concerted effort to encroach upon the station held by another member of our University community without warrant.

Many of us are quite a few years beyond our time attending, but if our ties did not remain strong, we wouldn't be on this board, taking an active interest in the goings-on of our alma mater. There may always be the outliers who claim that an educational institution shouldn't rely on athletics to assist in broadening its scope of name recognition, but in a sense the expectation that we should always be preparing to fire another coach seems just as unrealistic. Our bonds weren't forged by a Top-10 football team (though it would be wonderful to have one), but rather by our pride and fulfillment created by realizing that we were a part of something special. North Texas believed in me, and I learned to believe in North Texas.

Our classes, residence life, organizations, and events made us a community, one with both culture and spirit, even if most claim we haven't enough of either. Attending everything from Freshman Orientation and wing meetings in the dorms, to classes and organizations, to Jazz Singers concerts and football games, and knowing that we were an important piece of everything that makes UNT great...this is what makes us who we are. Trussbussdad certainly go me thinking about all of this, but the ongoing negativity is bizarre to me. Most of us didn't discover our feeling of community just because our football team kicked everybody's ass or because half of the Jazz Singers have record deals (okay, maybe they do but you get the point); we came to this point because the institution that gave us our chance at a better life inspired us to the realization that we can be better than we ever thought we could be.

If it takes football to keep us all together, then that's great. But as much as I like to see our athletes do well, I also appreciate that we are often branded as "underdogs"...because those who are handed everything from day one and remain successful don't make for a very good story. Rising above one's circumstances takes something truly special.

[DallasGreen]

Tell me, how many more years do you think it will take to teach defensive backs to turn their damn heads around when the receiver looks up? By my count we are on year 7 and haven't got it right yet. So do we need another year...two more years,.....three?

Let me know so I can make plans accordingly. I'll tweet and post it to Facebook to let everyone I know that each time we see the opposing team drop back to pass that that is the "Drink" indicator for the rest of us watching.

PASS!!!!!................"Drink"

Rick

Agree throughly FFR, but I would add why do we keep recruiting DBs who are so short they can't reach the receiver's shoulders much less the ball. Also Zac Whitfield was suppossed to have great speed. Why hasn't he recovered when beaten anytime this year??

[DallasGreen]

Don't really think you can put too much emphasis on last year's win vs MTSU. It was a meaningless game with no real importance in the last game of the season

This game had much more riding on it

Not really comparable

Apparently the hundred students that showed up for last year's game didn't think it was very important either. After all they would have only witnessed what has been done five other times in NCAA history (Dunbar's records)

[meangreanmick]

When you look around this conference, we need to raise our expectations now, and quit this "well, we are heading in the right direction crap". I know there are some on here that think criticism is a bad thing, but that game was a complete embarassment along with the UH game that should have been competitive, and the Troy game we should have won easily.

yeah, except for one small problem, we aren't that good. Why should the UH game have been competitive - because you say so? Why should we have won the Troy game easily? The fact is, we over achieved in the Troy game to put ourselves in a position to win and not surprisingly, we didnt win. Houston - a good 2 levels above us. MTSU - better than we are. I don't like the losses, nor the way we have lost, anymore than anyone else on here (but you can go ahead and tell me how I accept losing now) - however, we haven't lost a game we were favored in.

You should take a lump of crap and have it race a grey hound. But tell the lump of crap that you don't accept losing and see how it does cause I am pretty sure it should win if you do that.

[meangreanmick]

Tell me, how many more years do you think it will take to teach defensive backs to turn their damn heads around when the receiver looks up? By my count we are on year 7 and haven't got it right yet. So do we need another year...two more years,.....three?

Let me know so I can make plans accordingly. I'll tweet and post it to Facebook to let everyone I know that each time we see the opposing team drop back to pass that that is the "Drink" indicator for the rest of us watching.

PASS!!!!!................"Drink"

Rick

Holy crap, you figured it out. If only the coaches and players knew it was that simple. And all this time, nobody had any idea. Why have you been holding out on us? You should go to the athletic center before practice as the players and coaches are going onto the field and share your brilliant idea with all of them. Seriously, get them to all huddle around you and shine your incredible football knowledge on them.

[Monkeypox]

yeah, except for one small problem, we aren't that good. Why should the UH game have been competitive - because you say so? Why should we have won the Troy game easily? The fact is, we over achieved in the Troy game to put ourselves in a position to win and not surprisingly, we didnt win. Houston - a good 2 levels above us. MTSU - better than we are. I don't like the losses, nor the way we have lost, anymore than anyone else on here (but you can go ahead and tell me how I accept losing now) - however, we haven't lost a game we were favored in.

You should take a lump of crap and have it race a grey hound. But tell the lump of crap that you don't accept losing and see how it does cause I am pretty sure it should win if you do that.

If we don't have the expectation to be COMPETITIVE (not even win or be good) against the bottom half of FBS, then it's time to shut it down. If it takes overachieving to come close to Troy or a 30 point loss to MTSU is the expectation, then there's no reason to field a football team, unless North Texas has so many rich alumni that really want to spend their money on watching a national joke. There aren't enough WORSE teams in FBS beyond who we already play in order to justify accepting these losses, no matter what. Yes, we're bad. But you don't go out there with the expectation that you're just going to stay that bad. That's not what coaches are paid for, it's not why you hand out scholarships. You expect PROGRESS.

I'm assuming that the "Troy and MTSU are greyhounds" statement is a bit. It's too ridiculous to be anything else.

[meangreanmick]

If we don't have the expectation to be COMPETITIVE (not even win or be good) against the bottom half of FBS, then it's time to shut it down. If it takes overachieving to come close to Troy or a 30 point loss to MTSU is the expectation, then there's no reason to field a football team, unless North Texas has so many rich alumni that really want to spend their money on watching a national joke. There aren't enough WORSE teams in FBS beyond who we already play in order to justify accepting these losses, no matter what. Yes, we're bad. But you don't go out there with the expectation that you're just going to stay that bad. That's not what coaches are paid for, it's not why you hand out scholarships. You expect PROGRESS.

I'm assuming that the "Troy and MTSU are greyhounds" statement is a bit. It's too ridiculous to be anything else.

It wasn't my intention to suggest Troy and MTSU are greyhounds. I am just point to the absurdity of some of our fans that say we expect to win right now, therefore we should win and ignore the fact that we have a vastly inferior team as a whole when compared to other FBS teams this season. I do expect us to be more than competitive, I expect us to build into a winning program. My point is, you can't just show up and expect we are instantaneously competing for a national championship just because we say we expect it. There has to be a little common sense, if we are not competing and winning in the 4th or 5th year, we go get a coaching staff that can. However, to say we should go from what may have been about the worst team in FBS to expecting us to have a winning season in a year and a half is nonsense. The staff is doing just what they should, building up a young base of players so that we are ready for CUSA. Only time will tell if the talent level and coaching level are indeed good enough to win, but they are doing the right things and dont' deserve some of the ridiculousness that some of our fans spew.

[aztecskin]

I didn't expect a win v MTSU. I expected a better show of enthusiasm. I like what DMac has put together. It still is a tough team with more backbone than any of the Dodge ones. This looks better. That said, we aren't that much worse than any other Belt team. With some luck, a good plan, and enthused players we could have snuck up and stole a game from Middle.

[Green P1]

I didn't expect to win this season. I predicted 4 or 5 wins at the beginning of the season. What I wanted to see was an undermanned team pulling out every stop possible to try and win every game on the schedule. WE'RE NOT GETTING THAT.

[meangreanmick]

I didn't expect to win this season. I predicted 4 or 5 wins at the beginning of the season. What I wanted to see was an undermanned team pulling out every stop possible to try and win every game on the schedule. WE'RE NOT GETTING THAT.

What stops do you want them to pull out?

[UNTBill]

What stops do you want them to pull out?

Oh I don't know. Maybe when the coaches see that the QB is having an off day they try someone else. If only for a few

plays, you know, just to see, on the outside chance, that maybe the next guy is having a better day.

[Green P1]

What stops do you want them to pull out?

Did you watch the Houston game and think any stops were pulled? 0

[meangreener]

Or, with a minute left, try to get into FG range. Call a trick play once in a while.

[CurveItAround]

Or, with a minute left, try to get into FG range. Call a trick play once in a while.

A trick play is executing a play that the opponent does not expect. Therefore, calling the same play 3 times in a row technically falls under the definition of trick play.