THECB Vote on NT Union Fee (Maybe not good)

[GL2Greatness]

Nothing you posted had any relevance whatsoever and was just meaningless outdated crap. You don't understand the way the research works, which is cute, as well. Fact is per UNT and THECB, the merger of UNT and the HSC, similar to A&M and Galveston, UH and UH Medical Center, UTMB and UT, would give us $60 million in research, $220 in endowment. Fact. You can dispute it and claim your numbers are better, mine come straight from the source, yours are ambiguous, outdated and unreliable.

But I expect that from you, kiddo.

By the way, Tech and UH both count their endowment for the whole system, dumbass.

Can we meet in person? Like at a coffee shop?

By the way, it's wrong not worng, you idiot.

that is cute is the fact that you don't understand that TAMU College Station and TAMU Galveston have never been viewed as seperate universities

what is laughable is that you are so stupid you don't know that there is no such thing as UH Medical Center.....idiot

UTMB and UT Austin are not looking to merge dumbass.....UT Austin is looking at starting an entirely new medical school located in Austin

straight from the source must means traight from your ass because that is where you are making stuff up from because that is where your head is located

how exactly are my numbers ambiguious, outdated, and unreliable when they come directly from the THECB, the north Texas website, and from the NACUBO while your come from out of your ass

and again the 591 million and the 475 million that UH and Tech used to qualify for NRUF funding (something that north Texas is a decade away from at best) are again directly from the THECB and those are the numbers for the specific universities in question not the system

I have no intereste in meeting you because you are clearly a fool and have no clue what you are talking about as in evidence above where you mention UH Medical Center that does not exist and where you try and refute numbers directly from the THECB website and where you believed that TAMU College and Galvestion were "merged" or that UT Austin and UTMB were lookign to merge......all of which make you look like a bigger ass than you have already made yourself look like

and Harry does not ban me because I am sure he is as tired as anyone of getting smoke blown up his ass by dolts that don't lnow what they are talking about, but think they do and then seeing that all fall apart later on when reality hits

[meangreener]

that is cute is the fact that you don't understand that TAMU College Station and TAMU Galveston have never been viewed as seperate universities

what is laughable is that you are so stupid you don't know that there is no such thing as UH Medical Center.....idiot

UTMB and UT Austin are not looking to merge dumbass.....UT Austin is looking at starting an entirely new medical school located in Austin

straight from the source must means traight from your ass because that is where you are making stuff up from because that is where your head is located

how exactly are my numbers ambiguious, outdated, and unreliable when they come directly from the THECB, the north Texas website, and from the NACUBO while your come from out of your ass

and again the 591 million and the 475 million that UH and Tech used to qualify for NRUF funding (something that north Texas is a decade away from at best) are again directly from the THECB and those are the numbers for the specific universities in question not the system

I have no intereste in meeting you because you are clearly a fool and have no clue what you are talking about as in evidence above where you mention UH Medical Center that does not exist and where you try and refute numbers directly from the THECB website and where you believed that TAMU College and Galvestion were "merged" or that UT Austin and UTMB were lookign to merge......all of which make you look like a bigger ass than you have already made yourself look like

and Harry does not ban me because I am sure he is as tired as anyone of getting smoke blown up his ass by dolts that don't lnow what they are talking about, but think they do and then seeing that all fall apart later on when reality hits

Because TAMU was smart and didn't delegate them out as separate universities from the beginning, like we did; a horrible idea.

http://www.uh.edu/uh-health/about/tmc-partnership/index.php

UH is a part of the TMC. Thus the UH section of the MEDICAL CENTER.

Idiot.

I never said they merged. I said they were all one university. I said we need to merge to be like these schools.

So you can't read, write or arrange proper grammar? Mind=blown

[GL2Greatness]

Because TAMU was smart and didn't delegate them out as separate universities from the beginning, like we did; a horrible idea.

http://www.uh.edu/uh...rship/index.php

UH is a part of the TMC. Thus the UH section of the MEDICAL CENTER.

Idiot.

I never said they merged. I said they were all one university. I said we need to merge to be like these schools.

So you can't read, write or arrange proper grammar? Mind=blown

being a member of the TMC does not mean UH has a "medical center" it means they conduct research with other members of the TMC.....get a clue you just ignorant of what you are trying to discuss

Rice is a member of the TMC as well and they have no medical school, no nursing school, and no pharmacy program.....they are a member of the TMC because their researchers conduct research with other members of the TMC.....that does not mean their is a Rice Medical Center

and being like UT Austin currently would mean that you do not have a medical school because UT Austin does not currently have a medical school the UTMB is a separate institution and their research, endowment, faculty and students are counted separate from the Austin campus and you seem too ignorant to understand this

TAMU Galvestion was never ment to be a full university it was meant to have a training component for Merchant Marines and to do ocean research....it has a specific mission and still does and that mission is not to be a full 4 year school

and the north Texas system never "delegated" TCOM as a separate school TCOM was on it's own before it was merged into the north Texas system against the wishes of the TCOM faculty and staff so there was no chance to "delegate" if they were on their own or not on their own.....they were on their own because they were started as a completely separate school and then merged with a system that they wanted nothing to do with and still want nothing to do with.....again the fact that you don't know the history of TCOM shows you don't have a clue what is being discussed

there is no UH "Medical Center" UH is a member of the TMC

here are the other members of the TMC that are educational institutions

Baylor College of Medicine

Houston Academy of Medicine-Texas Medical Center Library

HCC Coleman College for Health Sciences

Michael E. DeBakey High School for Health Professions

Prairie View A&M University, College of Nursing

Rice University

Texas A&M University Health Science Center Houston

Texas Southern University College of Pharmacy & Health Sciences

Texas Woman's University Institute of Health Sciences - Houston Center

The University of Texas Health Science Center at Houston

• 
  School of Dentistry
  
• 
  Graduate School of Biomedical Sciences
  
• 
  Harris County Psychiatric Center
  
• 
  Medical School
  
• 
  School of Health Information Sciences
  
• 
  School of Nursing
  
• 
  School of Public Health
  
• 
  The Brown Foundation Institute of Molecular Medicine for the Prevention of Human Diseases
  

The University of Texas Medical Branch at Galveston

University of Houston College of Pharmacy

University of Houston

University of Houston Victoria School of Nursing

those are not all "Medical Centers" it means their faculty conducts research with other members of the TMC....the fact that north Texas is too stupid or unable to conduct research to their full ability with their own member institution without a full merger shows the incompetence of the north Texas system administration.....all these TMC member schools manage to get it done without merging with each other and without having a large presence in the TMC

if north Texas wants to be like TAMU, UH, UT, or Texas Tech what they need to do is have a wholesale change in leadership from the top down, hand the dallas campus off to DCCCD, give up on the law school, start hiring decent faculty for full tiem tenure track positions, learn how to raise a private dollar, stop coming up with stupid plans that fail, raise their enrollment requirements, stop making up useless degree programs, spend a dollar or two on the hard sciences and engineering, and learn how to report accuratetly and honestly to the THECB and the legislature and then stop kidding themselves that it will be a 3-4 year turn around and start actually meeting some of their own publisehd goals for research, faculty hiring, and other relevant metrics instead of failing to meet them and then doing something about that by coming out with a new slogan, some cold hot dogs, and a swag bag

[UNTFan23]

Can we lock this thread now?

Edited October 29, 2012 by UNTFan23

[Mean Green Matt]

1. We need a new Student Union because the current one was built for 17,000 students. Fact.

2. The students voted to pay for the new union with a student fee. Fact.

3. The students were educated on the cost and scale of the project. If they were too stupid or "cool" to participate in the election, they can screw off and take their complaining somewhere else. Fact.

4. If our students want to pay for a shiny new building, Austin needs to get the F*** out of the way. Fact.

Whatever nonsense GL2G is spewing is irrelevant to this issue.

[greenminer]

Jeff Bridges could wear a UNT shirt in Austin and thus be denied his rug.

[Proud North Texan]

Lee Jackson is awesome for our university! I really love that he is our chancellor because of all of the awesome things he does for UNT. He obviously has political connections not just in Texas, but all over the entire universe.

I can't wait to see what he has in store for us instead of the new Union. Ther MUST be something more pressing that we just don't know about.

:thumbsu: :thumbsu: :thumbsu:

What do you MEAN?

[GreenMachine]

I was never a student at SMU and I took 3 tech writing courses at north Texas while sitting in the crappy lab with not enough space and the conputer monitors that are placed in desk that makes them tilt upwards and listening to organ music from across the hallp

and very few of the total students at the university bothered to vote at all and the state gets involved because it is the state that ultimately backs tuition revenue bonds

If you took writing classes, then quit being a DB and referring to us as north Texas. You purposely didn't capitalize the N in North every single time in your previously long rant. You made it small like your penis.

[Cougar King]

Instead of fighting and arguing like cats and dogs, you guys SHOULD be uniting and collaborating ways to try and help get this thing passed, whatever that may be. The rest of us (the other big Texas schools) don't yield to Austin, so you guys shouldn't either, but if you keep fighting, this will slip away from you guys eventually.

[oldguystudent]

The current union is physically uncomfortable. Until the new business building opened, I honestly thought it was in the university mission to make students stand as much as possible, as if having absolutely nowhere on campus to congregate or sit somehow invigorated the mind.

The business students have it good now. Everybody else? Not so much.

Edited October 29, 2012 by oldguystudent

[tylermeangreen]

Nothing you posted had any relevance whatsoever and was just meaningless outdated crap. You don't understand the way the research works, which is cute, as well. Fact is per UNT and THECB, the merger of UNT and the HSC, similar to A&M and Galveston, UH and UH Medical Center, UTMB and UT, would give us $60 million in research, $220 in endowment. Fact. You can dispute it and claim your numbers are better, mine come straight from the source, yours are ambiguous, outdated and unreliable.

But I expect that from you, kiddo.

By the way, Tech and UH both count their endowment for the whole system, dumbass.

Can we meet in person? Like at a coffee shop?

By the way, it's wrong not worng, you idiot.

I am sure that you don't care.........

but when you were rjmunthe I banned you from my screen because of your bombastic, condescending, bar-brawling, negative attitude.

Now that I have finally figured out you have changed your screen name and who you are/were, I will once again ban you from my screen.

From my perspective GL2Greatness is no bigger, or lesser, fool than you.

[Ibleedgreen]

It's election season. Vote against the dimwits in Austin!!

[Grant.UNT]

how do you block posts from certain posters??

[greenminer]

how do you block posts from certain posters??

Drop-down menu (at the top of your screen next to your username) > Manage Ignore Pref > Type in the name of user you want to block

[Grant.UNT]

Drop-down menu (at the top of your screen next to your username) > Manage Ignore Pref > Type in the name of user you want to block

awesome!! thanks

[JesseMartin]

This is a wild thread! Do we know who GL2G is? I think I might but I'm not going to say publicly. Anyway, is Andy Hogue on here? He's brilliant on bond issues, though a bit more conservative than me (no bonds, no credit, etc). His own preferences aside, he's been working with a bunch of cats in Austin and is always up-to-date on lots of infrastructure stuff and may be able to lend a hand, or at least shoot a line to somebody else who can.

As an aside, one fact that can be refuted a bit is that our Union was built for 17,000 students...although the statistic is correct, at that time there weren't many "gathering places." I'm thinking that the "expected population" for the building itself, at any given point in time, may not be as high a percentage of the student population due to the expansion of the campus and addition of other locations for students to get together. I do think we need a bit more space, but maybe the thought was that we need a smaller expansion than was proposed. But that's just a guess. Either way, I suspect that this will be a stall rather than a full stop. Either the THECB will revisit an amended version of our proposal, or there will be assistance from the legislature. And for the record, Myra Crownover is definitely a friend of UNT. She may not be able to get the whole state legislature behind her on every matter involving us, but that doesn't mean she doesn't have our best interests as a priority.

[Legend500]

Well, I'm late to the party, but do have some basic thoughts that I can kind of throw into the mix.

I'm not quoting because it would make my comment unreadable to those with epilepsy.

1) Lee Jackson was made chancellor for several reasons. The fact is that we didn't even have an endowment of any real amount and didn't even have an office in Austin when he started. Jackson didn't step into a situation which was great at the time - he stepped into a system that had historically undervalued itself and had no interest in making even minimal efforts to improve its standing statewide. It takes decades to turn that around - it's much harder to do that than even to start from scratch.

2) Bill Lively's impact hasn't been felt yet, but I can absolutely 100% ninja-face guarantee that it will be within the next 3 years.

3) Anyone who has done the Austin education dance knows that the Horns and Aggies lock arms and walk into the Capitol together every session. There are ways to break that monopoly, but it involves getting the Dallas, Houston and other non-Austin delegations to work together. It also involved making alliances with other systems with similar interests - which are out there, but we have to start playing the game. Finally, it involves emphasizing the rivalries within the U Texas system itself: UTD and UTA hate each other while we are on great terms with both (the UCD thing has no impact on that). UTEP and UTSA, and their friends, hardly talk to each other. UTT wonders if anyone in Austin knows they exist.

4) There are plenty of legislators willing to help UNT in Austin, but UNT's never engaged there. UNT hasn't had a lobbyist until extremely recently, and has always hid up north and assumed that everything is ok.

5) As far as the THECB is concerned, they just want an updated description of the bonding procedure (every system is super-bonded at the moment, so that's not unusual), some actual numbers on usage (UNT just submitted a general "we're bigger than the last one we built") and is also making a pro-forma rejection in a period when any spending is going to be initially rejected just for show. Plus, few people listen to the THECB anyway. The THECB was very much against the NTDLaw idea, has repeatedly questioned the need for additional universities like UNTD and TAMUSA, and has approved ideas which have never gotten taken care of.

6) Because of the laws in Texas, the University and System can't lobby the state at all - it has to go through the Alumni Associations of the schools. I hope I don't have to explain that UNT's alumni Association hasn't really been in a position to do that. On the other hand, if you're interested in talking to some legislators on behalf of UNT this upcoming session, PM me. I may or may not know of an initiative to do just that in the upcoming session.

7) The Tier One situation is going to continue to suck for a while. We don't have the endowment because we didn't think we needed one until a few years ago. Plus, we've always been the state's fine arts/liberal arts school. Unfortunately, the areas where we excel at - music, psychology, political science, urban planning, etc. - are not the biggest draw for qualifying research spending. It's just who we are, and while there are very strong efforts to fix that, it's gonna take a while. Oh well.

8) An additional point that always gets overlooked is that we don't command the same intense loyalty that the other systems have in their local areas. Texas, A&M and Tech all have complete control over their local legislators and officials for good reasons - they're the only game in town. UH has the advantage of a huge market that they share with only one other state school of note (A&M) and other non-system schools (PVAM & TSU). UNT doesn't even control Denton or the area north of DFW. If we're going to get anywhere, it means that we need to continue to wait for the blue-hairs which defend the independence of TWU and Midwestern State to retire. The point is coming soon where a push for integration of those schools, plus TAMU Commerce and Texas Tyler would be possible for UNT, and it's extremely necessary for the future of the System.

[KRAM1]

awesome!! thanks

Don't block me!!!!! :-)

[KRAM1]

Don't fret folks....the re-constructed student union building at UNT is not a dead issue.....just another step in the game of state politics and state process....it will get done IF the University of North Texas Administration and students want it to get done...now we can all see how badly they do want it re-built.

My guess...project will get approved! Patience, grasshopper, patience!

[Stan R]

Fantastically informative post Legend500. Appreciate the insight.

[Harry]

Well, I'm late to the party, but do have some basic thoughts that I can kind of throw into the mix.

I'm not quoting because it would make my comment unreadable to those with epilepsy.

1) Lee Jackson was made chancellor for several reasons. The fact is that we didn't even have an endowment of any real amount and didn't even have an office in Austin when he started. Jackson didn't step into a situation which was great at the time - he stepped into a system that had historically undervalued itself and had no interest in making even minimal efforts to improve its standing statewide. It takes decades to turn that around - it's much harder to do that than even to start from scratch.

2) Bill Lively's impact hasn't been felt yet, but I can absolutely 100% ninja-face guarantee that it will be within the next 3 years.

3) Anyone who has done the Austin education dance knows that the Horns and Aggies lock arms and walk into the Capitol together every session. There are ways to break that monopoly, but it involves getting the Dallas, Houston and other non-Austin delegations to work together. It also involved making alliances with other systems with similar interests - which are out there, but we have to start playing the game. Finally, it involves emphasizing the rivalries within the U Texas system itself: UTD and UTA hate each other while we are on great terms with both (the UCD thing has no impact on that). UTEP and UTSA, and their friends, hardly talk to each other. UTT wonders if anyone in Austin knows they exist.

4) There are plenty of legislators willing to help UNT in Austin, but UNT's never engaged there. UNT hasn't had a lobbyist until extremely recently, and has always hid up north and assumed that everything is ok.

5) As far as the THECB is concerned, they just want an updated description of the bonding procedure (every system is super-bonded at the moment, so that's not unusual), some actual numbers on usage (UNT just submitted a general "we're bigger than the last one we built") and is also making a pro-forma rejection in a period when any spending is going to be initially rejected just for show. Plus, few people listen to the THECB anyway. The THECB was very much against the NTDLaw idea, has repeatedly questioned the need for additional universities like UNTD and TAMUSA, and has approved ideas which have never gotten taken care of.

6) Because of the laws in Texas, the University and System can't lobby the state at all - it has to go through the Alumni Associations of the schools. I hope I don't have to explain that UNT's alumni Association hasn't really been in a position to do that. On the other hand, if you're interested in talking to some legislators on behalf of UNT this upcoming session, PM me. I may or may not know of an initiative to do just that in the upcoming session.

7) The Tier One situation is going to continue to suck for a while. We don't have the endowment because we didn't think we needed one until a few years ago. Plus, we've always been the state's fine arts/liberal arts school. Unfortunately, the areas where we excel at - music, psychology, political science, urban planning, etc. - are not the biggest draw for qualifying research spending. It's just who we are, and while there are very strong efforts to fix that, it's gonna take a while. Oh well.

8) An additional point that always gets overlooked is that we don't command the same intense loyalty that the other systems have in their local areas. Texas, A&M and Tech all have complete control over their local legislators and officials for good reasons - they're the only game in town. UH has the advantage of a huge market that they share with only one other state school of note (A&M) and other non-system schools (PVAM & TSU). UNT doesn't even control Denton or the area north of DFW. If we're going to get anywhere, it means that we need to continue to wait for the blue-hairs which defend the independence of TWU and Midwestern State to retire. The point is coming soon where a push for integration of those schools, plus TAMU Commerce and Texas Tyler would be possible for UNT, and it's extremely necessary for the future of the System.

Great post!! Thanks for that -- very helpful info!

[GL2Greatness]

1. all those things may be true about the system when lee the idiot started, but he started in 2002 and the endowment for north Texas was 41.73 million in 2001 Southwest Texas (as they were called at the time) was 41.1 Texas Tech was 316.4

now it is 110.7, 119.7 for TxState, and 475 for Texas Tech hell St Mary's in San Antonio was at 77.5 in 2001 and they are at 163 now.....so lee has failed massively at the one thing he was suppose to be really good at which was fund raising.....and north Texas has not had a capital campaign the entire time he has been here while Tech is finishing up a billion dollar campaign, UH started one 1.5 years ago, SMU is in the middle of one for 750 million, and TCU finished one for 250 million that ended up at 425+ million and UTD is in the middle of one now for 200 million, Lamar and TxState have just finished up campaigns that raised well over their goals of 100 million each and UTSA is at 110 million of their goat of 120 million by 2015 and UTEP is going to finish a campaign of 200 million in 2014....not to mention a billion dollar campaign by Rice and 3 billion by UT

there was a lot of talk a few months back on this very forum about a big capital campaign announcement in sept, but that came and went with the only real announcements being some money raised to renovate an old building at the Liberty Christian campus for basketball practice.....sure that was a decent amount of money raised for athletics in a short period of time, but where is the big university wide capital campaign and where has one been for the last 8 years while pretty much every other emerging research university in Texas is in the middle of one or finishing one up?

on nov 29 2002 the website for north Texas has north Texas offering 98 bachelors degrees, 125 masters degrees, and 47 doctoral degrees...Feb 9 2007 was 96,111, 50

today it is 97, 82, 35...I will be the first to say many of those masters and doctoral degrees were worthless and never should have been offered (who gets an MA in a hard or physical science ), but what type of "leadership" allows a university to go up and down so radically in the types and numbers of degrees they offer especially at the graduate level......higher education moves very slowly it is not the type of place that just says "lets add this degree today" and then next week "lets stop offering that degree".......well at least well run institutions of higher education don't operate that way.....and all that in the midst of a large gain in students...that is just poor planning and poor execution period

2. how is the impact of Bill Lively going to be felt over the next three years going to be felt if Bill has flown the coop after only nine months....and what does that say about the people that have been around for the last 8 years (like lee the idiot) if someone can come in promising to stay one to three years, leave after nine months, and their impact will still be felt for the next three years....to me is says the others are dead weight and need to GO ASAP because someone else out worked them in 9 months VS 8 years

3. the alliances have already formed......it is UT, UH, and Texas Tech especially when it comes to the NRUF requirements......it was those three systems that drove the bus and made the requirements what they were....north Texas was along for the ride and was lucky to not be on the roof of the bus....and if north Texas has such a wonderful relationship with UTD how come UTD has stolen top faculty from north Texas several times including one that is now the Vice President for Research at UTD?.....actually UTD did not even have to steal him or two others that left with him they shopped themselves as a group to UTA and UTD and had offers from both and picked UTD specifically because of a lack of commitment to the hard sciences and research at north Texas

also the UT and TAMU Systems lobby on behalf of 100% of their system members to the legislature because those systems are what are called "strong systems" which means the system lobbies on behalf of 100% of the members of the system and the only "weak system" in Texas is the Texas State System where each member lobbies on behalf of themselves, but that system is also looking at a strong system model which is part of the reason that Angelo State left the Texas State System several years back and joined the Texas Tech System

and the UT System in particular is very supportive of their members in things such as fund raising and the like using the methods and goals learned for UT Austin to help improve and to set goals for their other system members which is why many of their members are having successful fund raising campaigns right now

4. I doubt most legislators know north Texas exist and now that royce west is gone from the higher ed committee north Texas has no one looking out for them and after all the failed economic development ideas that royce pushed through in dallas showed to be failures I doubt anyone is looking to go to bad for more of the same that was 100% the fault of the system leadership for looking to "dominate dallas" with stupid and unneeded half baked ideas

5. the THECB was actually in favor of the TAMUSA proposal, and they were in favor of it because it was started the proper way which was to partner with Palo Alto College, utilize their existing facilities, and build enrollment to the point that they could support a free standing campus before breaking away to have their own campus and be a free standing university

since 2009 when TAMUSA became a free standing university their enrollment has gone from 2,343 to 3,554 in 2011 and to 4,133 in 2012

north Texas-dallas on the other hand in 2009 was 2,109....2,084 in 2010 and 2,032 in 2011 so they DROPPED enrollment every year and is 2,097 in 2012 so they had a very slight enrollment increase for 2012 that still gets them below where they were in 2009

FTEs at each school from 2009 to 2011 are

TAMUSA 1428.82 1960.35 2206.72

dallas 999.07 1052.73 1109.82 FTEs for 2012 are 1212

and in case you missed it the law school has not been funded to open for the last 6 years and it has had ZERO dollars other than the 5 million that was allocated in 2007 funded to do anything and it will probably not get funded to open in 2013 either and hopefully will be canceled once and for all.....the fact that north Texas failed to listen to the advice of the THECB on the dallas campus, the law school, the residential building purchase downtown, the UCD building purchase, and has screwed up the UCD lease agreement with TAMU-C and UTA and driven Midwestern and UTD out of the UCD, and they failed to listen to the THECB and the legislature on the size of the second building at the dallas campus is the reason that the THECB watches north Texas so closely now

and the fact that north Texas failed so spectacularly on the dallas campus enrollment goals is the main reason The State of Texas has put a stop to new system centers and firmed up the 3500 enrollment requirement for becoming a free standing university

nothing like flaunting something over and over and then failing at it over and over to prove you are not worthy......some day that catches up and that ay is now when money is tighter and the last of the spend spend spend fools have been run out of the higher ed committee

every single thing that north Texas ignored the THECB and the legislature on has been a failure

lastly you are dreaming if you think that TAMU-C would ever consider joining the north Texas system they have first hand experience through the UCD as to what a poorly run system it is and their administrative cost would go up dramatically and their degree offerings and stature would decline dramatically.....Midwestern is perfectly happy as a stand alone university now and into the future and I would imagine if they were to join anyone it would be Texas Tech or UT with zero consideration for north Texas and if you think you are just going to get a hold of TWU and that is that you are dreaming as well if that type of thing starts up you will find it lucky if a north Texas system exist at all after that

there is absolutely zero to gain from any of those schools even remotely considering joining the north Texas system...high overhead cost, bloated system operations, no professional program offerings, poor fund raising history, no legislative support, system components that never wanted to be together in the first place, dallascentric focus (along with waste and fraud), and better options or a better current situation already mean not a chance in hell of that happening

[GrandGreen]

1. all those things may be true about the system when lee the idiot started, but he started in 2002 and the endowment for north Texas was 41.73 million in 2001 Southwest Texas (as they were called at the time) was 41.1 Texas Tech was 316.4

now it is 110.7, 119.7 for TxState, and 475 for Texas Tech hell St Mary's in San Antonio was at 77.5 in 2001 and they are at 163 now.....so lee has failed massively at the one thing he was suppose to be really good at which was fund raising.....and north Texas has not had a capital campaign the entire time he has been here while Tech is finishing up a billion dollar campaign, UH started one 1.5 years ago, SMU is in the middle of one for 750 million, and TCU finished one for 250 million that ended up at 425+ million and UTD is in the middle of one now for 200 million, Lamar and TxState have just finished up campaigns that raised well over their goals of 100 million each and UTSA is at 110 million of their goat of 120 million by 2015 and UTEP is going to finish a campaign of 200 million in 2014....not to mention a billion dollar campaign by Rice and 3 billion by UT

there was a lot of talk a few months back on this very forum about a big capital campaign announcement in sept, but that came and went with the only real announcements being some money raised to renovate an old building at the Liberty Christian campus for basketball practice.....sure that was a decent amount of money raised for athletics in a short period of time, but where is the big university wide capital campaign and where has one been for the last 8 years while pretty much every other emerging research university in Texas is in the middle of one or finishing one up?

on nov 29 2002 the website for north Texas has north Texas offering 98 bachelors degrees, 125 masters degrees, and 47 doctoral degrees...Feb 9 2007 was 96,111, 50

today it is 97, 82, 35...I will be the first to say many of those masters and doctoral degrees were worthless and never should have been offered (who gets an MA in a hard or physical science ), but what type of "leadership" allows a university to go up and down so radically in the types and numbers of degrees they offer especially at the graduate level......higher education moves very slowly it is not the type of place that just says "lets add this degree today" and then next week "lets stop offering that degree".......well at least well run institutions of higher education don't operate that way.....and all that in the midst of a large gain in students...that is just poor planning and poor execution period

2. how is the impact of Bill Lively going to be felt over the next three years going to be felt if Bill has flown the coop after only nine months....and what does that say about the people that have been around for the last 8 years (like lee the idiot) if someone can come in promising to stay one to three years, leave after nine months, and their impact will still be felt for the next three years....to me is says the others are dead weight and need to GO ASAP because someone else out worked them in 9 months VS 8 years

3. the alliances have already formed......it is UT, UH, and Texas Tech especially when it comes to the NRUF requirements......it was those three systems that drove the bus and made the requirements what they were....north Texas was along for the ride and was lucky to not be on the roof of the bus....and if north Texas has such a wonderful relationship with UTD how come UTD has stolen top faculty from north Texas several times including one that is now the Vice President for Research at UTD?.....actually UTD did not even have to steal him or two others that left with him they shopped themselves as a group to UTA and UTD and had offers from both and picked UTD specifically because of a lack of commitment to the hard sciences and research at north Texas

also the UT and TAMU Systems lobby on behalf of 100% of their system members to the legislature because those systems are what are called "strong systems" which means the system lobbies on behalf of 100% of the members of the system and the only "weak system" in Texas is the Texas State System where each member lobbies on behalf of themselves, but that system is also looking at a strong system model which is part of the reason that Angelo State left the Texas State System several years back and joined the Texas Tech System

and the UT System in particular is very supportive of their members in things such as fund raising and the like using the methods and goals learned for UT Austin to help improve and to set goals for their other system members which is why many of their members are having successful fund raising campaigns right now

4. I doubt most legislators know north Texas exist and now that royce west is gone from the higher ed committee north Texas has no one looking out for them and after all the failed economic development ideas that royce pushed through in dallas showed to be failures I doubt anyone is looking to go to bad for more of the same that was 100% the fault of the system leadership for looking to "dominate dallas" with stupid and unneeded half baked ideas

5. the THECB was actually in favor of the TAMUSA proposal, and they were in favor of it because it was started the proper way which was to partner with Palo Alto College, utilize their existing facilities, and build enrollment to the point that they could support a free standing campus before breaking away to have their own campus and be a free standing university

since 2009 when TAMUSA became a free standing university their enrollment has gone from 2,343 to 3,554 in 2011 and to 4,133 in 2012

north Texas-dallas on the other hand in 2009 was 2,109....2,084 in 2010 and 2,032 in 2011 so they DROPPED enrollment every year and is 2,097 in 2012 so they had a very slight enrollment increase for 2012 that still gets them below where they were in 2009

FTEs at each school from 2009 to 2011 are

TAMUSA 1428.82 1960.35 2206.72

dallas 999.07 1052.73 1109.82 FTEs for 2012 are 1212

and in case you missed it the law school has not been funded to open for the last 6 years and it has had ZERO dollars other than the 5 million that was allocated in 2007 funded to do anything and it will probably not get funded to open in 2013 either and hopefully will be canceled once and for all.....the fact that north Texas failed to listen to the advice of the THECB on the dallas campus, the law school, the residential building purchase downtown, the UCD building purchase, and has screwed up the UCD lease agreement with TAMU-C and UTA and driven Midwestern and UTD out of the UCD, and they failed to listen to the THECB and the legislature on the size of the second building at the dallas campus is the reason that the THECB watches north Texas so closely now

and the fact that north Texas failed so spectacularly on the dallas campus enrollment goals is the main reason The State of Texas has put a stop to new system centers and firmed up the 3500 enrollment requirement for becoming a free standing university

nothing like flaunting something over and over and then failing at it over and over to prove you are not worthy......some day that catches up and that ay is now when money is tighter and the last of the spend spend spend fools have been run out of the higher ed committee

every single thing that north Texas ignored the THECB and the legislature on has been a failure

lastly you are dreaming if you think that TAMU-C would ever consider joining the north Texas system they have first hand experience through the UCD as to what a poorly run system it is and their administrative cost would go up dramatically and their degree offerings and stature would decline dramatically.....Midwestern is perfectly happy as a stand alone university now and into the future and I would imagine if they were to join anyone it would be Texas Tech or UT with zero consideration for north Texas and if you think you are just going to get a hold of TWU and that is that you are dreaming as well if that type of thing starts up you will find it lucky if a north Texas system exist at all after that

there is absolutely zero to gain from any of those schools even remotely considering joining the north Texas system...high overhead cost, bloated system operations, no professional program offerings, poor fund raising history, no legislative support, system components that never wanted to be together in the first place, dallascentric focus (along with waste and fraud), and better options or a better current situation already mean not a chance in hell of that happening

Do you actually believe anyone is going to read the above? I have not read one sentence and I will bet it contains endless examples of how poor UNT is in comparison to every known institution of higher learning.

You have convinced me, I don't have to be reminded. The degree I obtained was worthless and anything worthwhile I accomplished in my career was despite NT. I feel that you have probably likewise through your editorial brilliance and determination made every NT alumni feel the same. We know we were all duped by NT, but please allow us our delusions and stop reminding us how foolish we all are.

I

[meangreener]

Do you actually believe anyone is going to read the above? I have not read one sentence and I will bet it contains endless examples of how poor UNT is in comparison to every known institution of higher learning.

You have convinced me, I don't have to be reminded. The degree I obtained was worthless and anything worthwhile I accomplished in my career was despite NT. I feel that you have probably likewise through your editorial brilliance and determination made every NT alumni feel the same. We know we were all duped by NT, but please allow us our delusions and stop reminding us how foolish we all are.

I

What a pathetic human being he is.

I picked NT over UH, A&M, UTSA and Tech and it was the best decision of my life.

Edited October 31, 2012 by meangreener

[UTArlingtonMaverick]

"UTD and UTA hate each other"

Legend, if this was ever true ("hate" is a strong term...maybe "distrust"), it has gone away over the last decade. UTA and UTD are so intertwined anymore. There are so many collaborations and partnerships between the two universities; they are really helping each other. The universities are close at the presidential, dean, an professor levels. Students are in joint degree program at both universities. Doing research together on both campuses (and at UT Southwestern) and forming joint degrees that either university alone would have trouble getting in today's environment. For instance, as brand new examples, UTD is currently latching-on to UTA for a joint Ph.D. in mechanical engineering, and UTA is getting a new Ph.D. in geology from going-in jointly with an already existing Ph.D at UTD. Both universities are also working very, very closely with UT Southwestern. UTA even has its own labs at Southwestern.

I think UTA does have some limited collaborations with UNT Denton, but not nearly so extensive as with UTD. (Digitizing the maps in UTA's special collections comes to mind.) UTA probably works more closely, in research terms, with the UNT Health Science Center...I know there is stuff going on there. Being in the same system makes a lot of collaborations easier and logical.

Anyway, UTA and UTD certainly do not hate each other. Quite the contrary, the two universities have never been closer.

This is interesting about the Union project getting shot-down by the Coordinating Board. (The large majority of projects are approved.) UNT will go back with a new proposal. It is likely that the project will need to be scaled-back, or, at the least, other sources of funding will need to take the place of some of the student fee commitment. I was shocked by the $137 million price tag, to be born almost exclusively by student fees, and I think the Coordinating Board was, too, esp. in the current environment. The chancellor and president were not tuned-in to the political (and fiscal) climate.