THECB Vote on NT Union Fee (Maybe not good)

greenminer · October 27, 2012

Call = loud scream from the basement.

House of peace. Drink your prune juice!

untbowler · October 27, 2012

Whoever's job it is to get things done in Austin just isn't getting the job.

Exactly what do we pay Lee Jackson to do? No, really?

There is the problem right there, what has Lee Jackson done for UNTDenton since he became chancellor?

MeanMag · October 27, 2012

Do we have any NT staff members on here? I have heard that the Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board might have voted down the union fee despite it being approved by a majority of students. It might have been sent out in an email to staff. I'm hoping this is not true, but this is the first place I thought to come to to find out if any staffers had heard this.

If this is true, its time we all get together and protest this and tell Austin to quit voting to hold us back. They did the same thing with our athletic fee that they only let be applied to the stadium and then automatically terminate.

Has anybody else heard anything about this.

P.S. I know this may get moved, but this is an extremely important issue for the University.

Thanks for posting this. I was unaware this had been tied up. Last I heard this was a go and approved.

Christopher Walker · October 27, 2012

There is the problem right there, what has Lee Jackson done for UNTDenton since he became chancellor?

Moved the Board of Regents to Dallas, away from the flagship. Ugh.

If UNT has one major weak spot it's our severe lack of political power. We have absolutely none and it always costs us when we try to get projects passed at the state level

From what I understand, yes and no. Yes on a more federal level from Burgess. His ties to UNT (go to his House page, the header is a loop of UNT images amongst others), Dr. With's husband lead's Burgess' Lewisville office, how it was them that really got Pres. Bush and Robert Gates for DLS, etc.

Now of course rubbing shoulders with national figures often means jack with that of state figures. Supposedly Myra Crownover is on our side (As she very well should be!).... but when its convenient for her. She was at the ULL game for the bridge opening anyway.

SilverEagle · October 27, 2012

I don't know about our political relationships overall, but our first legislative screwing (that I'm aware of) took place when we filed the bill to change our name back in 1960. We had achieved University status, and therefore needed to change our name to reflect the change in status. In the original bill we requested that our name be changed to THE UNIVERSITY OF NORTH TEXAS. Well several elected officials (who obviously were UT grads) took great exception to this and threatened to filibuster the bill. This was bad enough, but they also took the opportunity to ridicule us in the official record of the session.A compromise was reached and the name change ended up being NORTH TEXAS STATE UNIVERSITY. The whole ugly incident can be found the the book "The Story of North Texas" by Dr. James Rogers.

We finally righted that wrong in 1988.

So it appears that we've been the legislatures' red headed step child for some time.

drex · October 27, 2012

Two thoughts. One, Denton is terribly weak in the general scheme of things in Austin, as it has little economic punch (just the way the old guard in Denton likes it). Two, people hired for their political connections should be replaced on a regular basis, as their connections are always shifting with the political winds. Jackson's connections may not even be in power anymore.

oldguystudent · October 27, 2012

If I take a step back and look at the three most recent capital projects, Apogee, The Business Building, and The Student Union, I see two of the three bringing revenue to UNT. I wonder if that has anything to do with it.

But yeah, the existing union sucks. I rarely went in there unless I was trying to get out of the rain or something.

MeanGreenTexan · October 28, 2012

Lee Jackson is awesome for our university! I really love that he is our chancellor because of all of the awesome things he does for UNT. He obviously has political connections not just in Texas, but all over the entire universe.

I can't wait to see what he has in store for us instead of the new Union. Ther MUST be something more pressing that we just don't know about.

:thumbsu: :thumbsu: :thumbsu:

:fpc:

Mean Green Matt · October 28, 2012

For what it's worth, we do have options here. It's possible that SGA could get involved and fight on behalf of the students wishes, which was to build the new union. The morons in Austin apparently want the project scaled back. We need to build this for the future though, which is why it was going to cost so much...

It would probably be the best student union in the state....that might have something to do with it. Of course, they had no problem letting A&M spend $125 million on theirs.

Edited October 28, 2012 by Mean Green Matt

UNT90 · October 28, 2012

I don't know about our political relationships overall, but our first legislative screwing (that I'm aware of) took place when we filed the bill to change our name back in 1960. We had achieved University status, and therefore needed to change our name to reflect the change in status. In the original bill we requested that our name be changed to THE UNIVERSITY OF NORTH TEXAS. Well several elected officials (who obviously were UT grads) took great exception to this and threatened to filibuster the bill. This was bad enough, but they also took the opportunity to ridicule us in the official record of the session.A compromise was reached and the name change ended up being NORTH TEXAS STATE UNIVERSITY. The whole ugly incident can be found the the book "The Story of North Texas" by Dr. James Rogers.

We finally righted that wrong in 1988.

So it appears that we've been the legislatures' red headed step child for some time.

You think we would have learned by now...

GL2Greatness · October 28, 2012

Do we have any NT staff members on here? I have heard that the Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board might have voted down the union fee despite it being approved by a majority of students. It might have been sent out in an email to staff. I'm hoping this is not true, but this is the first place I thought to come to to find out if any staffers had heard this.

If this is true, its time we all get together and protest this and tell Austin to quit voting to hold us back. They did the same thing with our athletic fee that they only let be applied to the stadium and then automatically terminate.

Has anybody else heard anything about this.

P.S. I know this may get moved, but this is an extremely important issue for the University.

the THECB was not who made the student fee for the stadium funding end when the bonds are paid off that was the actual legislature.....the THECB is not a legislative body and they are not legislators and in fact they are pretty much powerless.....the fact that they voted this union project down really means nothing other than they are advising the state legislature that they think it is a bad idea....if the legislature approves it then it is will be done

it is the same with the law school there are plenty of THECB studies and opinions that say that Texas does not need another law school anywhere in the state and especially in dallas, but those were ignored by the legislature to a degree and the stupid idea of a failed law school has stunk up the air ever since then even though the legislature has only funded it one time in 4 sessions for 5 million dolllars and has refused to fund it to actually open since then at least 2 times

it is also the same with the failed south dallas campus....the THECB specifically said that was not a place that needed a 4 year university and that a 4 year university would fail there....the THECB also had a 3500 FTE requirement for a system center to become a free standing university and that was twice reduced (against the advice and wishes of the THECB) to 2500 FTEs and then to 1000 FTEs.....and the THECB even reprimaneded north Texas for false counting of students towards that FTE requirement and while the application to become a free standing university was denied based on the findings of the THECB about the FTE count at the dallas campus the legislature could have overridden that as well if they wanted to, but by then Texas was hurting for higher ed cash and north Texas had proven they were not up to the task of making that university come anywhere close to being a success much less a non-failure

the members of the THECB are state employees with very little actual authority and the legislature can override any opinions or ideas they have and they often do to the detriment of higher education in Texas

Everyone has the same problems. When I lived in El Paso the local news reported everything involving UTEP because they are the only show in town. They had problems with getting a parking garage built (which the governor even spoke about at a graduation I attended), horrible congestion getting in and out of campus which required road work (its a commuter school and not huge but it was awful for everyone), and just look at the problems Austin just gave them about the boxing match at the Sun Bowl (which Austin finally agreed to after being pains in the asses).

Any time you get bureaucrats involved they are going to screw with plans so they can justify their existence. Even at Houston Cougar King.

It's laughable considering the university approved it, the students voted to fund it, and a panel of politicians will hold it up because they can. It will get passed but they will slap their seal of final approval on it and claim it as one of their mighty achievements. Since they recognize it is needed, they wrote a letter stating it is needed, now they will sit on the idea, somebody is going to have to go kiss the ring / asses, then they will give their blessing, be given a silver shovel to attend the photo op, get their name in a paper somewhere, and place this achievement in their resume for their next job, and place the picture on their "Me" wall in their office. This was an abbreviation of events to come. I have seen this nonsense plenty of times.

I really hate bureaucrats and politicians.

Someone post their email addresses, phone numbers, contact info here and if possible another publication and let them have it.

Did I mention I hate bureaucrats and politicians? I hope I don't get sick in the future because the same jackass on this panel will probably be in charge of my health care some day.

Rant concluded.

streets are not under the auspices of a university or the THECB......parking garages are not funded for any university by The State of Texas and even if the THECB stated a parking garage was not a good idea (or even voted it down) the UT System BOR could still apporve that project and since tuition revenue bonds would not be used for a parking structure I am not sure the legislature would even vote on it as well

the fight was a system decision not a THECB or a legislature decision and it was made by the chancellor of the UT System who came up through the UTHSC-SA and is not an "Austin" guy

This. Lee F. Jackson was hired and is paid supposedly because he was/is well connected in Austin. Please tell me what this man does to earn his paycheck? Anyone? He has done nothing to earn his bloated pay from our institution. Typical of top heavy government institutions.

lee the idiot was actually hired because of his "money" connections to the dallas donors and he was suppose to be a great fund raiser for north Texas.....he has massively failed at that topped of with the hiring of his buddy and "major DFW fund raiser" bill lively for a "one to three year period" that left north Texas after only 9 months with nothing to show for his time here (other than pay stubs) to take a job at national geographic

lee the idiot did have legislative connections when royce "the fool" west was the chairman of the Texas Senate Higher Education Committee....lee the idiot was hand picked by royce the fool not because of what lee the idiot could get done for north Texas, but because lee the idiot was a puppet for royce the fool to move the resources and center of focus of north Texas from Denton to dallas.....so not only was lee the idiot noth hired because of his connections to get things done for north Texas (Denton) he was hired because he would sit back and let royce the fool use north Texas resources to make failed economic development waste in dallas proper to the detriment of the Denton campus

If I take a step back and look at the three most recent capital projects, Apogee, The Business Building, and The Student Union, I see two of the three bringing revenue to UNT. I wonder if that has anything to do with it.

But yeah, the existing union sucks. I rarely went in there unless I was trying to get out of the rain or something.

I seriously doubt if anyone is concerned about the "revenue" from a burger bar or a game room coming into Denton and if the revenue was going to be so large that anyone was concerened about it then the union would have been voted as approved because it would be showing itself as a revenue positive (or close to positive) expenditure of money VS another large fee to students over the ong haul

and if you were implying the business building was a revenue generator instead of the union that is not the case as well because business programs are expensive to run and bring in little grant funding (although they do sometimes at some well run universities bring in large donations)

and Texas Tech had trouble getting a new business building approved just like north Texas did, but it had to do with the formula funding for use of classroom space at each university not any type of "power" issue......Texas Tech responded by raising 70 million private dollars and going ahead with the project anyway while north Texas responded by waiting around several years until enrollment and facilities utilization reached the point that new class room space funding was approved and it went to a business building.....the differences in approach is why some schools in Texas are better at getting things done VS others

For what it's worth, we do have options here. It's possible that SGA could get involved and fight on behalf of the students wishes, which was to build the new union. The morons in Austin apparently want the project scaled back. We need to build this for the future though, which is why it was going to cost so much...

It would probably be the best student union in the state....that might have something to do with it. Of course, they had no problem letting A&M spend $125 million on theirs.

the SGA ia a nobody there is nothing they can do to "get involved" and get it approved the THECB was surely aware of the SGA position on the student union when they made a recomendation to the legislature to not allow for the issue of tuition revenue bonds to fund construction

and TAMU has 52,000 students whicj is over 16,000 more than north Texas so using them as a comparison for student union spending is not really an equal comparison by any stretch of the imagination

and I seriously doubt that anyone at UT, TAMU, or any other school in the state cares what north Texas does with a student union

the THECB voted this down because north Texas is already stretched thin as a system with bonds.....they are stretched thin because of Apogee, a "calculated gamble" to spend more money than the legislature and formula infrastructure funding allowed for a building in south dallas using "system" funds (in anticipation of enrollment growth that has actually been a decline in enrollment), because of millions being spent to purchase (against the recommendation of the THECB) the UCD building.....the renovations of that building for system offices and for a law school that has not been approved or funded to open yet and for the pruchase (against the recommendation of the THECB) of a residential building next to the UCD that has failed to live up to revenue and occupancy projections even after being opened up to non-students

the reason north Texas gets no respect from the THECB and generally from the legislature is because they have been a very poorly run university system that has often ignored the recommendations of the THECB and taken on projects that end up costing a lot of state resources and failing to deliver anything for the expenditure of those resources and because they fail to deal witht he THECB in an open and honest manner and the examples are all over the place

the south dallas system center was not needed....even more so it never should have been a free standing university.....even after the standards for becoming a free standing university were reduced that campus still failed for years to meet the requirements....north Texas tried to double count Denton and dallas students and they were called out for it.....they have recently tried to count DCCCD students taking DCCCD classes at the dallas campus (because of available space) as dallas camus students (that was shot down)

the law school was never needed and it has been a failure

the purchase of the UCD building has been a failure and will probably run UTA out of the UCD for good and may well force TAMU-C to seek other facilities or to stop offering classes in dallas which would stick the north Texas system with a large building with a lot of unused space...and even more unused space after the renovations of upper floors are completed and tons of unused space if the law school is not approved yet again in 2013 (and more than likely it will not be)

the purchase on the residential building next tot he UCD was another failed idea and an expense that never should have been taken on

the inability of the north Texas system to get a firm committment by the city of dallas for the renovation to the exterior of the old muny building and for partial interior renovations of that building for the law school (that was not needed in the first place) was yet another failure of leadership

the ugly national headlines grabbing firing of 100% of the faculty at the dallas campus....yet another embarrassing failure of leadership and proof that the system has no business expanding and taking on projects they are not ready to handle

these and others are the reasons the THECB does not just rubber stamp 100+ million dollar projects for a system that has time and again ignored the wishes of the THECB and taken on projects that were smaller in dollars and ended up failing to execute them

the only "good news" is that the THECB has no real authority their "vote" is really only a recommendation to the legislature about how they should vote on the projects and if the legislature ignores that recommendation and votes to allow the project then it will go ahead

emmitt01 · October 28, 2012

After some phone calls and some digging I was able to get my hands on a copy of the letter sent to Dr. Rawlins from the THECB.

"Dear President Rawlins,

We fully understand the need for a new union building at your campus. It is a necessary project that we hope to see completed. We have just one issue with your paperwork. When you submitted it you placed the title "University of North Texas" at the top of it. Please remove the word "North" and this project should move along immediately.

Thank you"

DJstars21 · October 28, 2012

@g2greatness When I first evaluated this post the first thing that came to mind was there are obviously logistics related factors involved that we as onlookers are unaware of. Having said that, for the first time ever, I actually appreciate your rundown of NT's recent investments.

My understanding of the situation is not that the THECB has irrevocably blocked the Union initiative, but more so stated some concern with regard to NT's cost justifications, etc. In other words, "tighten up your proposal and resubmit". Judging by the cost and scope of several of NT's other ongoing investments that have yet to come to fruition, I am not in the least bit surprised that this new major initiative is being scrutinized.

@ Everyone making the 'It's because we are UNT and we never get any consideration" type comments. I challenge you to evaluate the monumental increases in university wide growth that have taken place in an exceptionally short period of time and attempt to support those statements. NT is practically rebuilding the 4th largest university in the state, while supporting a new satellite campus, and investing in a future law school at the same time. I for one ,have no problem with THECB requesting a tighter more comprehensive proposal of NT's plan to generate a tangible return moving forward, which I am confident the university will do.

Checks and balances people, this is not a coordinated attempt by "longhorn supporters" to stifle the growth of UNT. lol

Edited October 28, 2012 by DJstars21

Mean Green Matt · October 28, 2012

NEWSFLASH: This is not about funding or anything of the sort. NT students voted to pay for this. The dimwits in Austin have no business getting in the way. The money NT students voted to input into the university will not be put to other uses, it just won't ever make it to the university because of this decision.

Secondly, GL2G obviously never took a technical writing course during his tenure at SMU... :glare:

GL2Greatness · October 28, 2012

NEWSFLASH: This is not about funding or anything of the sort. NT students voted to pay for this. The dimwits in Austin have no business getting in the way. The money NT students voted to input into the university will not be put to other uses, it just won't ever make it to the university because of this decision.

Secondly, GL2G obviously never took a technical writing course during his tenure at SMU...

I was never a student at SMU and I took 3 tech writing courses at north Texas while sitting in the crappy lab with not enough space and the conputer monitors that are placed in desk that makes them tilt upwards and listening to organ music from across the hall

and very few of the total students at the university bothered to vote at all and the state gets involved because it is the state that ultimately backs tuition revenue bonds

meangreener · October 28, 2012

We need no new Union.

It's just another botched project for us that we'll half finish and students will mock for doing it in "UNT fashion".

Ours is perfectly fine.

Secondly, the students DID NOT vote on this, they simply voted when they wanted to pay for it. It wasn't like the stadium where we voted on it, we simply voted on how to pay for it.

The fact that we're too busy putting up a hideous business building for a business program that's hanging on by its teeth and focusing more on a pedestrian bridge than actually doing things that matter like combining the Health-Science Center with Denton campus to meet research and endowment requirements for Tier 1 tells me all I need to know about this.

This was just another attempt by our idiotic Board of Regents to throw money away and pray that they get a return on the investment.

GL2Greatness · October 28, 2012

We need no new Union.

It's just another botched project for us that we'll half finish and students will mock for doing it in "UNT fashion".

Ours is perfectly fine.

Secondly, the students DID NOT vote on this, they simply voted when they wanted to pay for it. It wasn't like the stadium where we voted on it, we simply voted on how to pay for it.

The fact that we're too busy putting up a hideous business building for a business program that's hanging on by its teeth and focusing more on a pedestrian bridge than actually doing things that matter like combining the Health-Science Center with Denton campus to meet research and endowment requirements for Tier 1 tells me all I need to know about this.

This was just another attempt by our idiotic Board of Regents to throw money away and pray that they get a return on the investment.

the merger of the health science center would not meet the restricted research dollar requirements at the present levels and the merger would do little to help either school grow their restricted research faster VS what they can presently do now if they wanted to

there is nothing blocking those schools from working together now and every university system in Texas has research conducted between different member institutions and many have research conducted with non-member schools both public and private and in state and out of state

the restricted research total would increase with the merger, but it would still not equal 45 million and there is no guarantee that the legislature would allow the combined schools to count that research towards the 45 million needed

and the merger would only increase the endowment by a few million so that would mean next to nothing when the goal is still 275+ million away

more than likely if the merger did happen the UT, UH, and TxState Systems would all step in and ask to not allow combined numbers to count and I am pretty positive the Texas Legislature would agree to that since the goal of the entire NRUF funding program is to actually increase research not to have universities figure out a way to game the system while doing little if any additional research

the UT System could have easily merged UTSA and the UTHSC-SA and moved the combination very close to meeting the requirements for NRUF funding and they opted not to and if they merged UTA or UTD with UT Southwestern the combination would also easily qualify and they did not want to pit those two schools against each other or to have to choose a winner or a loser or to lower the prestige of UTSW

UH and TxState have no medical schools to merge with (though I suppose UH could talk to Baylor COM since Rice and Baylor COM are no longer talking about merging and Baylor COM does get some state funding for medical student training)

Texas Tech would actually probably be the only one that would not have a huge issue since they have two medical schools they could merge and since they already qualify for NRUF funding on their own like UH does, but I am sure they would step in to try and prevent it as well since it would cut into the funding they would get each year and since they actually earned it as a university VS taking the easy way out and trying to merge with the medicla school

the fact that north Texas dropped the idea so suddenly after publically saying they were looking at it and they did not even do the study tells me that the legislatures told them they would either not be allowed to count merged numbers or there would be an increase in metrics needed for schools that had a medical school combined with a university and I am sure they were also told that The State of Texas was not going to change formual funding for medical schools on account of a single system merging their HCS to a university

so lee the idiot had to give up on yet another stupid idea before it even got off the ground...he needs to concentrate on actually running a university and elevating it instead of trying to take stupid short cut after stupid short cut and "meeting needs" that never existed

and while the north Texas business school is not close to many of the numerous ranked programs in Texas it still enrolls a large number of students and they did get a large donation recently (which is more than most other programs can say)

Edited October 28, 2012 by GL2Greatness

meangreener · October 28, 2012

the merger of the health science center would not meet the restricted research dollar requirements at the present levels and the merger would do little to help either school grow their restricted research faster VS what they can presently do now if they wanted to

there is nothing blocking those schools from working together now and every university system in Texas has research conducted between different member institutions and many have research conducted with non-member schools both public and private and in state and out of state

the restricted research total would increase with the merger, but it would still not equal 45 million and there is no guarantee that the legislature would allow the combined schools to count that research towards the 45 million needed

and the merger would only increase the endowment by a few million so that would mean next to nothing when the goal is still 275+ million away

more than likely if the merger did happen the UT, UH, and TxState Systems would all step in and ask to not allow combined numbers to count and I am pretty positive the Texas Legislature would agree to that since the goal of the entire NRUF funding program is to actually increase research not to have universities figure out a way to game the system while doing little if any additional research

the UT System could have easily merged UTSA and the UTHSC-SA and gotten the combination very close to meeting the requirements for NRUF funding and they opted not to and if they merged UTA or UTD with UT Southwestern the combination would also easily qualify and they did not want to pit those two schools against each other or to have to choose a winner or a loser or to lower the prestige of UTSW

UH and TxState have no medical schools to merge with (though I suppose UH could talk to Baylor COM since Rice and Baylor COM are no longer talking about merging and Baylor COM does get some state funding for medical student training)

Texas Tech would actually probably be the only one that would not have an issue since they have two medical schools they could merge and since they already qualify for NRUF funding on teir own like UH does, but I am sure they would step in to try and prevent it as well since it would cut into the funding they would get each year and since they actually earned it as a university VS taking the easy way out and trying to merge with the medicla school

the fact that north Texas dropped the idea so suddenly after publically saying they were looking at it and they did not even do the study tells me that the legislatures told them they would either not be allowed to count merged numbers or there would be an increase in metrics needed for schools that had a medical school combined with a university and I am sure they were also told that The State of Texas was not going to change formual funding for medical schools on account of a single system merging their HCS to a university

so lee the idiot had to give up on yet another stupid idea before it even got off the ground

and while the north Texas business school is not close to many of the numerous ranked programs in Texas it still enrolls a large number of students and they did get a large donation recently (which is more than most other programs can say)

Restricted research for the UNT Health Science Center is $41 million.

http://fwbusinesspre...ArticleID=23103

Most schools combine their satellite schools in their endowment and restricted research, like UH and Tech. UH's satellite schools are especially heavy on the endowments. For example, most of UH's satellites contain anywhere from $24 million to $80 million in endowments. Tech also does this. But this would be allowed, especially as a specialty ones like the HSC. So there's no doubt they would pass it, obviously. The problem is that we don't want to, because our Board of Regents is a bunch of spineless toolbags.

Endowment at the UNT Health Sciences Center is $110 million dollars. That puts us at $210 million dollars and right in the thick of the Tier 1 race. But once again, you don't research facts.

Combined numbers already count in all the second-tier schools, especially health and medical centers. A&M and UT are the only schools that do not combine their endowment numbers, because they don't need to.

Once again, you know nothing.

The idea was placed on hold until November. Hey look, November is right around the corner.

Edited October 28, 2012 by meangreener

DJstars21 · October 28, 2012

NEWSFLASH: This is not about funding or anything of the sort. NT students voted to pay for this. The dimwits in Austin have no business getting in the way. The money NT students voted to input into the university will not be put to other uses, it just won't ever make it to the university because of this decision.

1.) Regardless of who bears the cost of production, it's my understanding that the THECB evaluated the viability of our initial proposal and had concerns with the cost justifications contained within.

2.) Please articulate what, in the recent developments regarding the Union initiative, has lead you to believe that the aforementioned funds will "never" reach the university? Because I think they will, as a result of an adjusted/more complete proposal.

Some of the institutions many of you are choosing to compare NT with, lead not only the state, but the nation in several significant academic categories. The consideration many people here aspire to have, is imo, the product of demonstrated and sustained excellence in key academic/institutional areas moreso than our political presence in the state.

I love shiny new buildings just as much as the next guy, but if you can't develop a quantitatively clear and concise proposal in support of said shiny new building, you shouldn't build the shiny new building until you do.

I would like to see a university proposal for funding aimed at our plan to lead the state in specifically communicated academic/sporting segments. Ex.) We feel the new ___ building will contribute substantially towards our goal of the UNT ___ program being ranked in the top 20 nationally over the next ___ years due to an increased capacity for collaborative learning exercises, Faculty resources, etc.. As opposed to "We strive to be the premier university in the state of Texas", Okay, but how?

Once we start doing ^, we will have fewer legislative and fund raising related roadblocks...

GL2Greatness · October 28, 2012

Restricted research for the UNT Health Science Center is $41 million.
http://fwbusinesspre...ArticleID=23103

Most schools combine their satellite schools in their endowment and restricted research, like UH and A&M. UH's satellite schools are especially heavy on the endowments. For example, most of UH's satellites contain anywhere from $24 million to $80 million in endowments. Tech also does this. But this would be allowed, especially as a specialty ones like the HSC. So there's no doubt they would pass it, obviously. The problem is that we don't want to, because our Board of Regents is a bunch of spineless toolbags.

Endowment at the UNT Health Sciences Center is $110 million dollars. That puts us at $210 million dollars and right in the thick of the Tier 1 race. But once again, you don't research facts.

Combined numbers already count in all the second-tier schools, especially health and medical centers. A&M and UT are the only schools that do not combine their endowment numbers, because they don't need to.

Once again, you know nothing.

The idea was placed on hold until November. Hey look, November is right around the corner.

1. that is total research for the unTHCS not restricted research

total federal research (not all federal research = restricted research) was 30 million in 2011 so that combined with the 14 million from the Denton campus would be short of 45 million even if 100% of the federal sponsored research was restricted (competitively awarded) research and I am sure 100% of it would not be.....so I am correct and you are a moron

2. no university in Texas counts their branch campuses in their endowment totals or in their research totals when it comes to reporting to the THECB and the state specifically breaks out the dollars for each university when NRUF funding requirements are counted......TAMU Galveston is not considered a branch campus and never has been it is considered a part of TAMU College Station and their students are treated just like College station students including getting game tickets and the like

UH does not count the research at any of their campuses with the main campus nor their endowments when it comes to NRUF funding requirements and neither does Texas Tech or the members of the UT System

you are worng and an idiot

3. the THECB website has the UH main campus with 591 million for an endowment, UHD at 35, UHCL at 23 and UHV at 9

I can see where someone from north Texas would consider 23, 35, and 9 million heavy on endowments, but none of them (and even all of them combined) do not equal to 80 million much less does any one of them alone have 80 million and UH main campus still has 591 on their own which is well above the NRUF requirement of 400 million

you are a complete fool and you have no clue what you are talking about

4. the endowmwnt for the unTHSC is 6 million.....once again you do your research on wiki where idiots and imbeciles "do dey researchin'" so they can make an ass of themselves when the real facts come out

if you had half a brain you would look at the link that WIKI has for the unTHSC endowment and you would see that it leads to the NACUBO annual endowment study and the number that is reported for the HSC is actually the paultry endowment for the Denton campus

5. even if the HSC did have a 110 million dollar endowment the requirement is 400 million and being half way there would not put you "in the thick" of anything....other than making yourself look thicker than you already have by being so stupid and ignorant of the actual facts and reality

and again the HSC endowment is 6 million and that comes directly from the THECB website where 100% of the endowments for each university and HSC campus in Texas is correctly reported.....VS the wiki realm of idiots and dolts such as yourself

the THECB only counts the campus that gets the NRUF funding or that is the "emerging research" university of that system when it comes to endowment and restricted research numbers....UH, Texas Tech, TxState, and none of the UT System schools use combined numbers to meet those metrics....they do not use "branch campuses" or HSC numbers to meet those metrics....they use the numbers for the individual campus period and anyone that believes otherwise is just a fool...like you

north Texas even with the HSC counted would not be at 45 million in restricted research because the main campus does only 14 million in restricted research and the HSC does somewhere less than 30 million (the THECB websire does not break out restricted research, but their NRUF report had the numbers for the emerging research campuses and the HSC is only doing 30 million in TOTAL federal research) and state, private, and university funded research does not count as restricted research and 100% of federal research is not restricted research

and the combined endowments of the Denton campus and the HSC would be 120 million to 130 million max

get a clue and stop making things up and making a fool of yourself

Edited October 28, 2012 by GL2Greatness

meangreener · October 29, 2012

Everything I posted was factual and linked. Nothing you posted was factual and you're just upset because, once again, your statements were proven wrong. As usual, you are talking out your ass about things over your head that you'll understand when you grow up and get in the real world. Anyway, I have never seen any one who could have plain and basic information staring you in the face and you continue to argue and refute it. Once again, like before, I have valid statistics and you have phantom stats uncredited of no use whatsoever. I think you are mentally challenged. I really think so. And if so I'm sorry. Autism usually is characterized by obsessions without rationality; and that really defines you. I don't mean to offend anyone, just stating facts that we may have someone with autism and I think it best to ignore him.

Combined endowment would be $220 million and restricted research would be around $60 million. Facts.

Edited October 29, 2012 by meangreener

GL2Greatness · October 29, 2012

Everything I posted was factual and linked. Nothing you posted was factual and you're just upset because, once again, your statistics and statements were proven wrong. As usual, you are talking out your ass about things over your head that you'll understand when you grow up and get in the real world.

everything you posted shows your ignorance

the 41 million is total research....that is not the same as restricted research

you posted no links to back up anything else that you claimed

http://www.txhighere...Accountability/

right from this webiste is all the actual info needed

Institutional Efficiency and Effectiveness -> Contextual Measures ->Total Endowment ($ millions) -> FY 2011

University of North Texas 003594 $102

Texas Tech University 003644 $475

University of Houston 003652 $591

Angelo State University 003541 $113

University of Houston-Clear Lake 011711 $23

University of Houston-Downtown 012826 $35

University of Houston-Victoria 013231 $9

University of North Texas at Dallas 113594 $0

lets see here.....UH and Texas Tech have over 400 million without counting other system members....there is the listing of all the other UH and TTU System members

no UH System member has anywhere close to an 80 million dollar endowment and the total of all the members besides the main campus does not equal 80 million

so again you have been proven a fool

health related institutions ->north Texas HSC->Institutional Efficiency and Effectiveness->Total Endowment ($ millions)->FY 2011

University of North Texas Health Science Center 000130 $6

here is your endowment "source"

http://en.wikipedia...._Science_Center

notice the #1 next to the endowment

As of June 30, 2011. "U.S. and Canadian Institutions Listed by Fiscal Year 2011 Endowment Market Value and Percentage Change in Endowment Market Value from FY 2010 to FY 2011" (PDF). National Association of College and University Business Officers. January 17, 2012. p. 22. Retrieved February 13, 2012.

follow that link

390 University of North Texas TX 110,735 82,513 34.2

that is NOT the endowment for the HCS that is the endowment for the university

and yes in the NACUBO study some schools have included the entire system (and it clearly states that) BUT the THECB has the break downs for the individual universities on their webite

so you are a fool, wiki is incorrect, and I have provided state audited data

research

HSCs->Research ->Key Measures->Federal Research Expenditures->FY 2011

Texas Tech University Health Sciences Center 000412 $14,790,382

University of North Texas Health Science Center 000130 $26,236,587

HSCs->Research ->Key Measures->Sponsored (External/Federal) Research Expenditures->FY 2011

Texas Tech University Health Sciences Center 000412 $20,029,293

University of North Texas Health Science Center 000130 $30,400,697

so using federal research or using the higher federal/sponsored research the combined HSC and Denton campus would not equal 45 million because as shown below total research, total federal research, and total federal/sponsored research does NOT equal restricted research

http://research.unt.edu/ored/restricted-expenditures-statistics

Fiscal Year Restricted Expenditures* 2011 $ 14,661,577

http://research.unt....xtended-summary

Expand External Research Funding: UNT received external funding awards in excess of $37.6 million in FY 2009, of which $28.03 million was derived from federal sources. Research expenditures as calculated for the National Science Foundation (NSF) Research Report were $24.12 million, whereas the restricted research expenditures as per the THECB were $11.24 million. These numbers indicate about 60% increase in awards and research expenditures over two years. With this as the backdrop, our future goals are:

it works the EXACT SAME for the HSC.....TOTAL RESEARCH IS NOT RESTRICTED RESEARCH

and on the above link directly from the north Texas research website where it supports my statement that north Texas Denton did 14 million and change in restricted research in 2011 it also has 2009 listed as 11 million and change.....and it clearly spells out the fact that total external funding is not defined as total research and that total research does not = restricted research

so again it is CLEAR from the THECB website that you are wrong about the HSC endowment, you are WRONG about other schools using their system endowments to qualify for NRUF funding, you were WRONG about the value of the UH System component endowments, and you are wrong about what = restricted research and what the totals for restricted research are for north Texas and the unTHSC

here is the 2011 total research for each single member of the UT, UH, TxState, and TTU Systems that are either involved in the NRUF funding or that you could claim are being used for research totals

University of North Texas 003594 $25,422,991

Texas State University-San Marcos 003615 $33,486,998

Texas Tech University 003644 $142,762,792

University of Houston 003652 $93,756,014

The University of Texas at Arlington 003656 $65,959,123

The University of Texas at El Paso 003661 $69,480,347

The University of Texas at Dallas 009741 $93,230,313

The University of Texas at San Antonio 010115 $56,833,861

Angelo State University 003541 $1,150,150

University of Houston-Clear Lake 011711 $1,746,646

University of Houston-Downtown 012826 $1,478,738

University of Houston-Victoria 013231 $9,870

University of North Texas at Dallas 113594 $35,161

here is the federal research for each of them

University of North Texas 003594 $14,500,310

Texas State University-San Marcos 003615 $12,479,395

Texas Tech University 003644 $35,190,905

University of Houston 003652 $52,959,540

The University of Texas at Arlington 003656 $30,658,500

The University of Texas at El Paso 003661 $35,398,689

The University of Texas at Dallas 009741 $33,216,006

The University of Texas at San Antonio 010115 $31,972,285

Angelo State University 003541 $328,152

University of Houston-Clear Lake 011711 $818,279

University of Houston-Downtown 012826 $1,185,734

University of Houston-Victoria 013231 $0

University of North Texas at Dallas 113594 $15,017

so again I have proven you are well over your head, you have no clue what you are talking about, you should go drown yourself, and after that try and come back to life with a clue

because I have just supported every claim I made directly from the THECB or from north Texas websites

the merger of the HCS and Denton campus would not equal 45 million in restricted research, and the endowment would not equal more than 130 million and no school uses other system school endowment or research dollars to qualify for NRUF funding period

Edited October 29, 2012 by GL2Greatness

meangreener · October 29, 2012

everything you posted shows your ignorance

the 41 million is total research....that is not the same as restricted research

you posted no links to back up anything else that you claimed

http://www.txhighere...Accountability/

right from this webiste is all the actual info needed

Institutional Efficiency and Effectiveness -> Contextual Measures ->Total Endowment ($ millions) -> FY 2011

University of North Texas 003594 $102
Texas Tech University 003644 $475
University of Houston 003652 $591
Angelo State University 003541 $113
University of Houston-Clear Lake 011711 $23
University of Houston-Downtown 012826 $35
University of Houston-Victoria 013231 $9
University of North Texas at Dallas 113594 $0

lets see here.....UH and Texas Tech have over 400 million without counting other system members....there is the listing of all the other UH and TTU System members

no UH System member has anywhere close to an 80 million dollar endowment and the total of all the members besides the main campus does not equal 80 million

so again you have been proven a fool

health related institutions ->north Texas HSC->Institutional Efficiency and Effectiveness->Total Endowment ($ millions)->FY 2011

University of North Texas Health Science Center 000130 $6

here is your endowment "source"

http://en.wikipedia...._Science_Center

notice the #1 next to the endowment

As of June 30, 2011. "U.S. and Canadian Institutions Listed by Fiscal Year 2011 Endowment Market Value and Percentage Change in Endowment Market Value from FY 2010 to FY 2011" (PDF). National Association of College and University Business Officers. January 17, 2012. p. 22. Retrieved February 13, 2012.

follow that link

390 University of North Texas TX 110,735 82,513 34.2

that is NOT the endowment for the HCS that is the endowment for the university

and yes in the NACUBO study some schools have included the entire system (and it clearly states that) BUT the THECB has the break downs for the individual universities on their webite

so you are a fool, wiki is incorrect, and I have provided state audited data

research

HSCs->Research ->Key Measures->Federal Research Expenditures->FY 2011

Texas Tech University Health Sciences Center 000412 $14,790,382
University of North Texas Health Science Center 000130 $26,236,587

HSCs->Research ->Key Measures->Sponsored (External/Federal) Research Expenditures->FY 2011

Texas Tech University Health Sciences Center 000412 $20,029,293
University of North Texas Health Science Center 000130 $30,400,697

so using federal research or using the higher federal/sponsored research the combined HSC and Denton campus would not equal 45 million because as shown below total research, total federal research, and total federal/sponsored research does NOT equal restricted research

http://research.unt....ures-statistics
Fiscal Year Restricted Expenditures* 2011 $ 14,661,577

http://research.unt....xtended-summary

Expand External Research Funding: UNT received external funding awards in excess of $37.6 million in FY 2009, of which $28.03 million was derived from federal sources. Research expenditures as calculated for the National Science Foundation (NSF) Research Report were $24.12 million, whereas the restricted research expenditures as per the THECB were $11.24 million. These numbers indicate about 60% increase in awards and research expenditures over two years. With this as the backdrop, our future goals are:

it works the EXACT SAME for the HSC.....TOTAL RESEARCH IS NOT RESTRICTED RESEARCH

and on the above link directly from the north Texas research website where it supports my statement that north Texas Denton did 14 million and change in restricted research in 2011 it also has 2009 listed as 11 million and change.....and it clearly spells out the fact that total external funding is not defined as total research and that total research does not = restricted research

so again it is CLEAR from the THECB website that you are wrong about the HSC endowment, you are WRONG about other schools using their system endowments to qualify for NRUF funding, you were WRONG about the value of the UH System component endowments, and you are wrong about what = restricted research and what the totals for restricted research are for north Texas and the unTHSC

here is the 2011 total research for each single member of the UT, UH, TxState, and TTU Systems that are either involved in the NRUF funding or that you could claim are being used for research totals

University of North Texas 003594 $25,422,991
Texas State University-San Marcos 003615 $33,486,998
Texas Tech University 003644 $142,762,792
University of Houston 003652 $93,756,014
The University of Texas at Arlington 003656 $65,959,123
The University of Texas at El Paso 003661 $69,480,347
The University of Texas at Dallas 009741 $93,230,313
The University of Texas at San Antonio 010115 $56,833,861
Angelo State University 003541 $1,150,150
University of Houston-Clear Lake 011711 $1,746,646
University of Houston-Downtown 012826 $1,478,738
University of Houston-Victoria 013231 $9,870
University of North Texas at Dallas 113594 $35,161

here is the federal research for each of them

University of North Texas 003594 $14,500,310
Texas State University-San Marcos 003615 $12,479,395
Texas Tech University 003644 $35,190,905
University of Houston 003652 $52,959,540
The University of Texas at Arlington 003656 $30,658,500
The University of Texas at El Paso 003661 $35,398,689
The University of Texas at Dallas 009741 $33,216,006
The University of Texas at San Antonio 010115 $31,972,285
Angelo State University 003541 $328,152
University of Houston-Clear Lake 011711 $818,279
University of Houston-Downtown 012826 $1,185,734
University of Houston-Victoria 013231 $0
University of North Texas at Dallas 113594 $15,017

so again I have proven you are well over your head, you have no clue what you are talking about, you should go drown yourself, and after that try and come back to life with a clue

because I have just supported every claim I made directly from the THECB or from north Texas websites

the merger of the HCS and Denton campus would not equal 45 million in restricted research, and the endowment would not equal more than 130 million and no school uses other system school endowment or research dollars to qualify for NRUF funding period

Nothing you posted had any relevance whatsoever and was just meaningless outdated crap. You don't understand the way the research works, which is cute, as well. Fact is per UNT and THECB, the merger of UNT and the HSC, similar to A&M and Galveston, UH and UH Medical Center, UTMB and UT, would give us $60 million in research, $220 in endowment. Fact. You can dispute it and claim your numbers are better, mine come straight from the source, yours are ambiguous, outdated and unreliable.

But I expect that from you, kiddo.

By the way, Tech and UH both count their endowment for the whole system, dumbass.

Can we meet in person? Like at a coffee shop?

By the way, it's wrong not worng, you idiot.

Edited October 29, 2012 by meangreener

greenminer · October 29, 2012

You know, every time you refute him, he doubles his word count.

Just keep that in mind. I'm cool with whatever though: I've had his posts setup for ignore for a couple months now.

meangreener · October 29, 2012

You know, every time you refute him, he doubles his word count.

Just keep that in mind. I'm cool with whatever though: I've had his posts setup for ignore for a couple months now.

Because he has to spell out his fallacies in his argument. But I know, I don't understand why Harry won't ban him. He just gets under my skin. He's such a pathetic excuse for a human being, wasting as much time and energy as he does on a forum of a school he flunked out of. He's really bitter, I bet he thought coming here would be like a CC then he failed out after he stopped going to classes, sat inside and ate uncooked Ramen while watching LoTR all day...wait, that was my freshman roommate...

Same difference, though.

But seriously, he can't put a sentence together, he can't spell or come up with valid arguments; it's just sad and pathetic.

Edited October 29, 2012 by meangreener