Average Home Attendance SBC and CUSA

[aztecskin]

Can someone explain the counting methods?

[Cerebus]

Can someone explain the counting methods?

There is no standard. Some schools count tickets sold.

NT counts tickets scanned. So if someone buys a ticket (or if a student goes and gets a ticket) but then doesn't attend, they are not counted.

I think that is the best way to judge how our attendance is doing.

[TheColonyEagle]

There is no standard. Some schools count tickets sold.

NT counts tickets scanned. So if someone buys a ticket (or if a student goes and gets a ticket) but then doesn't attend, they are not counted.

I think that is the best way to judge how our attendance is doing.

If that's the case, how do we explain the MTSU game last year?

[oldguystudent]

SMU counts the sum of monthly dollars still paid to hush Eric Dickerson and number of hookers killed by Craig James this season.

[Cerebus]

If that's the case, how do we explain the MTSU game last year?

That is the practice now. Last year?

[TheColonyEagle]

You're right. But for the past few seasons, we've seen our beloved program take 1 step forward, followed by 2 steps back. It's hard for general population to jump on board without consistency.

Macrocosm: In 2007, we bring in Todd Dodge and tons of people around DFW get excited about the Mean Green. Little did we know the catastrophe awaiting.

Microcosm: This year, we play LSU & K-State to somewhat respectable losses (if there is such a thing), and smash little TXSouthern at home, allowing us to drum up a little support. We then crap the bed when Troy comes to town, followed up by a gut punch in Houston, and the general population starts saying, "Same ol' North Texas..." again. Those of us who are on GMG.com will ALWAYS show up. We're the core. The football program needs to get some consistency going so the general population (re: disconnected UNT alumns and Denton area residents) will jump on board.

I don't think promotions, band/cheer/spirit, etc... can help, yet.

110% This and only this.

I DON'T KNOW WHY THIS IS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND

If we win at MTSU, furthering our chances of competing for the conference championship, the buzz will continue and our attendance the next Saturday will be higher then if we lose and all but eliminate our chances.

It doesn't matter what the damn band does...

[TheColonyEagle]

That is the practice now. Last year?

ahh...gotcha

Well, I like last year's practice...

[forevereagle]

SMU counts the sum of monthly dollars still paid to hush Eric Dickerson and number of hookers killed by Craig James this season.

Seems like that number would be very high. I think that it may be closer to actual attendance multiplied by the number of hookers that may or may not have been offed by Craig James.

[CurveItAround]

If we are ultimately use ticket revenue to judge the health of the program then it seems more reasonable to use tickets sold, plus some sort of formula for the student tickets (scanned/picked up/whatever). The program benefits from the number of tickets they sell regardless of whether or not the people actually show up. It sounds like a lot of programs seem to use tickets sold plus however they count students, which gives a much higher number reported for attendance (i.e. smoo).

I can't see how reporting the number of actual tickets sold, plus students attending we be improper and misrepresent the interest in the program. If a ticket is sold it should be counted.

[Cerebus]

I can't see how reporting the number of actual tickets sold, plus students attending we be improper and misrepresent the interest in the program. If a ticket is sold it should be counted.

Well in that case we are averaging about 50,000 since every single student has already paid for their tickets via athletic fees.

I'll alert the B12.

[aztecskin]

Thanks Cerebus. Seems better to count the people in attendance for calculating actual, you know, attendance.

[Harry]

110% This and only this.

I DON'T KNOW WHY THIS IS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND

If we win at MTSU, furthering our chances of competing for the conference championship, the buzz will continue and our attendance the next Saturday will be higher then if we lose and all but eliminate our chances.

It doesn't matter what the damn band does...

I can't help but jump into this with my typical argument on this topic which some may label as a "Green" herring....

But think about this... what if we had a win over an albeit down Alabama team several years ago; and this season we beat Arkansas and took Auburn to overtime. Lost to Baylor in the closing minutes... can you IMAGINE the whirlwind change we would see in the support of this program? As most of you know, this is what ULM has accomplished with MUCH less resources I might add.

I stay amazed at how good our core of fans is given the years of disappointment they have faced. We have not had a "Marquee" victory to hang our hat on. And I'm sorry -- I went to all four bowl games and loved every minute of it but if you look at our non conference record in those years it is appalling... the "Glory Days" were a nice time for our program and one we are eternally grateful for because they probably led to many of the capital improvements. That said - if you look at what we have fed our fan base over the years it has been slim pickins!! GMG!

[Cerebus]

I stay amazed at how good our core of fans is given the years of disappointment they have faced.

Agree 100% with this. The amount of die hards we have is way out of proportion with the amount of winning this program has had.

And I'm sorry -- I went to all four bowl games and loved every minute of it but if you look at our non conference record in those years it is appalling...

I would agree except for 2003. Sure we only went 1-3. But the losses were to #1 OU (12 wins), #14 Arkansas (9 wins) and a tough Air Force team (8 wins). And we killed Baylor 52-14.

Not saying it was a perfect dream season....

[CurveItAround]

It seems the winds are changing. We still have the dreaded paycheck game, but the other 3 games next year are all against comparable competition. Assuming smoo does not all of a suddent get great, we will have them and Army, plus TBD in addition to our paycheck game. Having 3 of 4 OOC games against reasonable teams will help, and maybe we catch lightning in bottle in a paycheck game. As a reminder, we have not finished at .500 or better in the last 18 years in our OOC schedule.

I believe we are a ticking time bomb waiting to go off with some consistent winning. We are the only public university in DFW that plays in the FBS. The fact that if we start winning it will come against other Texas teams and semi recognizable out of state names from CUSA will only add to the level of success.

[UNTFan23]

It's promotions job to get people to show up. The band/cheer/spirit people need to be ready to do their job with the people who show up. Although they need to be doing promotions (on-campus cheer/band events) as well.

Marketing/Promotions is about raising brand awareness more than anything else. The effectiveness of said marketing/promotion event is determined by not only attendance for that single event but also for subsequent (in this case) games after said event.

[DallasGreen]

It drives me nuts that we count so conservatively. Can't we just lie like EVERY OTHER NCAA school? With SMU numbers, the TSU game would have been 24K and the Troy game 26K, the ULL game 22K. It's annoying.

We did plenty of lying last year in the final game against MTSU. I bet less than 100 students showed up if you don't count the band.

[GrayEagle]

UTSA's 30,862 that you have listed there was the attendance figure for the San Jose State game only. CFBStats and others only have that one game listed.

Wikipedia has them averaging 29,006.

UTSA's other games were not against FBS or FCS opponents.

[aztecskin]

UTSA's other games were not against FBS or FCS opponents.

I know. Still charged money and played games and had people in attendance.

[Arkstfan]

First, this has to be said as a matter of principle.

The Memphis numbers are rank fantasy. Despite announcing the move to the Big East and hiring a new coach they cut season ticket prices this year because of the fan apathy. The season ticket package price cuts ranged from $50 to $120 per seat.

Of course that is in large part a function of success. ASU bumped my ticket package from $250 (including mandatory donation) to $370 this year and anyone who bailed out in my area because of that 48% increase has been replaced and I'm bracing for another hit next year because they didn't bump it enough to accomodate all the newbies willing to move into that seating area.

WKU brought about as many people to Jonesboro this year as Memphis did.

Second, remember that La.Tech at the start of the season was getting some semi-negative press for tepid ticket sales in Shreveport and their weather delay wasn't truly warranted but by rescheduling, there was much more interest in the game as Tech started out great and TAMU fans became more interested as well. Sometimes a little luck helps. That worked out wonderfully for both schools.

Third. I take UTSA attendance with a big grain of salt. They've never had back-to-back losing seasons nor been steam-rolled opening weekend by a big name team. Let's see what happens when they start living in the real world.

Merely winning does not produce crowds and all the marketing in the world won't put 20,000 in the stands unless there is a product people want to see. I don't mean "Oh team X is coming to town". The product has to be the home team.

Last year ASU marketed that we were having a "Price Freeze" uh we were coming off a 4 win season, not like we were raising prices. In reality what we did was offer an early renewal discount. This year prices did go up and while there was no exemption for the minimum donation doubling, the small increase in ticket prices could be avoided by those who had bought bowl tickets through the school AND renewed early.

For a number of years ASU marketing consisted of two things. Working diligently to get as many businesses in town to decorate their windows with ASU stuff as possible and pushing the tailgating experience. Produced about a 15% bump that was pretty static. But last year bumped 24% above that new level and that was with 1/3rd of the home games being played while we had a losing record.

Attendance just doesn't fix over-night and if it does, good look retaining it. You really can't build a permanent fan base based on "winning this year" nor "we play this name team". You've really got to sell gameday experience, push the school brand, and THEN produce a team that creates excitement.

[TheColonyEagle]

You've really got to sell gameday experience, (check) push the school brand, (check) and THEN produce a team that creates excitement. (I really believe that's all we have left to do...)

[Arkstfan]

Colony as an example (although I'm sure the precise timing was dumb luck) of making sure to sell the "brand", going into LR a huge percentage of commuters come in via I-30 from the north. The first billboard in Little Rock since summer has had Gus Malzahn's photo with the slogan "Game On". Wednesday morning commuters saw a new sign replacing it. Just the wolf logo with "Red Wolves Rising". Start with whatever the "hook" is and move to the brand.

I suspect serious football fans in DFW know Coach Mac. Heck I don't follow the Big XII closely and I knew and respected him because he gave us fits coming into Arkansas raiding kids to Iowa State that we thought were absolute steals if we got them.

And of course Apogee in of itself is marketing tool. If UNT hasn't done a wing-spread eagle logo superimposed over that wild end zone, I imagine it is simply a matter of time until some marketing genius says "hey that sort of looks like an eagle flying".

I'm a big Sporting KC fan and they will market anything. The stadium, the players, anything they think will hook some interest.

My mantra is "It takes years to be an overnight success."

Get that foundation laid and then when the last pieces fall together everyone thinks "Wow look what they did IN JUST ONE YEAR" ( or two years).

I've lived in a community with a fairly large private college and I doubt many people realize the advantage UNT holds over SMU. There is a built-in bias amongst most people against private colleges and their students. There are people who will come support UNT who have never taken a class there and none of their friends have either who would never do that for SMU.

[Proud North Texan]

Win the belt or go bowl.. we average 25K next years!!

i'm a student right now, you wouldn't believe it how much excitement there is among students in classes and around the campus about MEAN GREEN sports!!

the culture is changing at UNT!!

i'm sorry old alum but honestly, we are unlike y'all, we don't see UNT as you have been seeing it 15/20 years ago!! We have more pride and confidence.. as our president said " the sky is our limit"

GMG