Sadler vs. Cruz - where does GMG stand on this one?

[Coffee and TV]

[Mean Green Scrappy]

And that's just scratching the surface. So please quit with the, name calling is a liberal lefty thing, it's ridiculous, it's both sides. I'm not saying this is right for either side to do, I wish we could elevate the conversation and not take it to the lowest common denominator, but it's certainly not a one sided thing.

It happens on both sides, no doubt. And some of what you stated there are good examples of it happening on our side. Doesn't make me proud. In my opinion though I see it more from the left then I do the right and I will call it out when I see it. I too wish the conversation and tone in everyone could be elevated but until those across from me who are debating me wish for the same and do it I have to call it like I see it.

[Mean Green Scrappy]

I'm glad to see Ted Cruz's name isn't on there.

[GreenBat]

I agree. Without citations to prove this. It's just opinion unlees you heard it with your right ear. You know the left can't be trusted. #SARCASM But it does need proof of fact.

Edited October 27, 2012 by GreenBat

[UNT90]

The consistent view on abortion/death penalty is that a human life is a human life, and no other human has the right to take that life. This is the view held by the Pope and is pretty easy to explain and defend.

Some Dems are hypocrites because they oppose the death penalty for the worst of criminals, yet fight for the right to end innocent life. Most republicans. Are hypocrites to a lesser extent because they claim they are defending human life by opposing abortion, but don't mind killing the criminal, who is also human. Yes, I fall into this catagory.

Look, rape is a terrible thing, but it's not the fault of the life that it created. I have no problem with the morning after pill in these situations. I know, it makes me a hypocrite, but there is a difference between a freshly fertilized egg and a 3 month old fetus in my book. Who knows, maybe that makes me more of a hypocrite.

Fact is, rape accounts for probably far less than 1% of abortions in this country, so it is really a disingenuous argument raised by the left.

But that never stops them.

[GTWT]

The consistent view on abortion/death penalty is that a human life is a human life, and no other human has the right to take that life. This is the view held by the Pope and is pretty easy to explain and defend.

Some Dems are hypocrites because they oppose the death penalty for the worst of criminals, yet fight for the right to end innocent life. Most republicans. Are hypocrites to a lesser extent because they claim they are defending human life by opposing abortion, but don't mind killing the criminal, who is also human. Yes, I fall into this catagory.

Look, rape is a terrible thing, but it's not the fault of the life that it created. I have no problem with the morning after pill in these situations. I know, it makes me a hypocrite, but there is a difference between a freshly fertilized egg and a 3 month old fetus in my book. Who knows, maybe that makes me more of a hypocrite.

Fact is, rape accounts for probably far less than 1% of abortions in this country, so it is really a disingenuous argument raised by the left.

But that never stops them.

I find your statement, "there is a difference between a freshly fertilized egg and a 3 month old fetus in my book" profoundly true. The 3 month-old fetus is 90 days further along the path to becoming a human than the fertilized egg. Neither is there.

[glick1980]

Let me first start my response to this by stating that I am pro life and do not believe in abortion except when it is needed to save the mother's life or in the case of rape. I think you will find that is a very common belief amongst many republicans. Now since this forum is about Cruz vs Sadler that is where I will keep the topic. There are some republicans and republican candidates that have made some unfortunate comments about abortion in regard to rape that I don't agree with, but we will keep this on Cruz since that is who you are accusing here.

"He is attempting to make a woman have a baby of a man that she did not consent to have intercourse with." Where is your proof that Cruz has ever said anything like this? That is a very serious thing to throw out there without backing it up. Please provide one article, one interview, one video clip of Cruz ever stating this. How is he attempting to make a woman who was raped have a baby? How? If you can show me something that has him in his own words saying this is what he is attempting to do, I'll hand it to you on a job well done in knowing him better then I do.

As far it being anyone's business, it isn't anyone's business what a woman does with her body until there is a second human life involved which happens at conception. At that point it is our duty to protect that life and give it the same chances his or her's mother had.

Althoug he didn't state it as I did, that is his policy and the policy of many Republicans.

http://www.texastribune.org/texas-health-resources/abortion-texas/state-leaders-oppose-abortion-after-rape-incest/

[UNT90]

I find your statement, "there is a difference between a freshly fertilized egg and a 3 month old fetus in my book" profoundly true. The 3 month-old fetus is 90 days further along the path to becoming a human than the fertilized egg. Neither is there.

So then you have no problem requiring the mother to see the sonogram of something that so clearly is not a human life, right?

So tell me, when does a fetus become a human life in your thought process.

Edited October 27, 2012 by UNT90

[untgirl04]

We had our first child about 18 months ago. At 8 weeks we heard his heartbeat. For me, at that moment he was truly alive. At 12 weeks they were able to predict gender with 97% accuracy. If a tiny human, with distinct internal organs like mine and a heartbeat like mine can be seen at 8 weeks post conception, I just don't understand the argument that life begins at birth.

I personally don't believe abortion is right, but I also don't believe it's appropriate to tell someone else what is right for them. And I believe that should extend to the government as well.

[oldguystudent]

So tell me, when does a fetus become a human life in your thought process.

When it turns 18, moves out, gets a job, and pays its own damn rent!

Edited October 27, 2012 by oldguystudent

[Mean Green Scrappy]

Althoug he didn't state it as I did, that is his policy and the policy of many Republicans.

http://www.texastrib...er-rape-incest/

This is what you bring to the table? As you said, he has not said it? The lady who wrote this article didn't state any sources of Cruz saying this is his policy. Please get back to me when you find Cruz in his own words or on his website stating that he believes abortion should not be used in the case of rape.

[GTWT]

So then you have no problem requiring the mother to see the sonogram of something that so clearly is not a human life, right?

So tell me, when does a fetus become a human life in your thought process.

The only reason to make a pregnant woman see a sonogram is to punish her for something you disapprove of. That's wrong.

As for when a fetus becomes human, I think the exercise is silly. An oocyte or a sperm cell is human but I don't think you want to grant those cells legal rights. If you did half the posters on GMG would be committing mass murder every evening.

[untgirl04]

The only reason to make a pregnant woman see a sonogram is to punish her for something you disapprove of. That's wrong.

As for when a fetus becomes human, I think the exercise is silly. An oocyte or a sperm cell is human but I don't think you want to grant those cells legal rights. If you did half the posters on GMG would be committing mass murder every evening.

No, sperm and oocytes are gametes that contain only half of our requisite chromosomes. They are of human origin but are not human.

[GTWT]

No, sperm and oocytes are gametes that contain only half of our requisite chromosomes. They are of human origin but are not human.

Hi UNTgirl,

Our life cycle, like most animals, includes a diploid stage (that's you & me), and a haploid stage (egg cells & spermj cells). Both stages are human.

Edited October 29, 2012 by GTWT

[UNT90]

Hi UNTgirl,

Our life cycle, like most animals, have a life cycle that includes a diploid stage (that's you & me), and a haploid stage (egg cells & spermj cells). Both stages are human.

So where dies human life begin in your view?

[GreenMachine]

The only reason to make a pregnant woman see a sonogram is to punish her for something you disapprove of. That's wrong.

As for when a fetus becomes human, I think the exercise is silly. An oocyte or a sperm cell is human but I don't think you want to grant those cells legal rights. If you did half the posters on GMG would be committing mass murder every evening.

doesn't have to be limited to evenings.

[GTWT]

So where dies human life begin in your view?

About 3.6 billion years ago in a chemically rich pool of water.

Once began, life was continuous. I didn't begin on a cold March night in Wichita Falls. My DNA, which is what I am, has wormed it's way via mitosis & meiosis through time. The individual is transient, what endures is DNA. That's what matters.

Damn! That's almost poetic.

[UNT90]

About 3.6 billion years ago in a chemically rich pool of water.

Once began, life was continuous. I didn't begin on a cold March night in Wichita Falls. My DNA, which is what I am, has wormed it's way via mitosis & meiosis through time. The individual is transient, what endures is DNA. That's what matters.

Damn! That's almost poetic.

And a complete non-answer. When does a specific human life begin?

Will you answer?

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Fetuses are human. But, that doesn't matter to politicians.

Democrats feel that they must pander to (liberal) women, so this is another area of science they ignore in order to keep that voting bloc.

Republican who label themselves as moderates (don't tax us, but don't penalize us for wanting to have irresponsible personal lives), want to bring more (liberal) women into their camp, so they ignore the science behind it as well.

The funny/hypocritical thing to me is the politicans who claim that hard science trumps anything related to what a Christian believes, yet they go ahead an ignore science anyway.

So, quit wasting your time with the lot of them. It's not humans that are important to politicans - it's their money and votes one days out of every two,four, or six years depending on the office. During the other thousands of days that pass between the election days, the humans mean nothing to them.

[glick1980]

This is what you bring to the table? As you said, he has not said it? The lady who wrote this article didn't state any sources of Cruz saying this is his policy. Please get back to me when you find Cruz in his own words or on his website stating that he believes abortion should not be used in the case of rape.

I didn't say he didn't say it, I said he didn't state it as I did. Prove to me that he is for abortion after rape. I doubt all of these reporters are just pulling this out of thin air. If it wasn't his view I am sure that he would come out and say that it isn't his view when reporters are reporting otherwise.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/29/us/in-gop-senate-runoff-cruz-and-dewhurst-disagree-on-little.html?pagewanted=1

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/frame_game/2012/10/todd_akin_and_richard_mourdock_banning_abortion_for_rape_victims_is_the.html

http://politix.topix.com/homepage/2656-is-banning-abortion-for-rape-victims-the-gop-mainstream

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jim-moore/ted-cruz-david-dewhurst_b_1723099.html

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/news_columnists/article/Abortion-is-important-except-when-it-s-not-3988647.php

I guess every news source in America has the wrong idea about this guy....Wonder why he hasn't set the record straight.

[GTWT]

And a complete non-answer. When does a specific human life begin?

Will you answer?

UNT90,

You want me to say that life beings at conception, or birth, or at age-18 yrs. None of that is sensical. Each is preceded by a living form of human. The egg cell prior to fertilization was living and human just as much as it was following ferlization.

A more rational question, I thnk, is when does the living cell or cells become sacred. Meaning, when does it matter to your religion. Your answer to that question will be one I won't be able to argue with.

[Mean Green Scrappy]

I didn't say he didn't say it, I said he didn't state it as I did. Prove to me that he is for abortion after rape. I doubt all of these reporters are just pulling this out of thin air. If it wasn't his view I am sure that he would come out and say that it isn't his view when reporters are reporting otherwise.

http://www.nytimes.c...ml?pagewanted=1

http://www.slate.com...ims_is_the.html

http://politix.topix...-gop-mainstream

http://www.huffingto..._b_1723099.html

http://www.mysananto...not-3988647.php

I guess every news source in America has the wrong idea about this guy....Wonder why he hasn't set the record straight.

My friend, thank you for sharing these articles. They do nothing but show how the liberal media is at work here trying to build a story out of something that has been a miscue for a few Republicans and now they want to spread it to other conservative politicians by trying to play this gotcha game. I am sorry that I originally misread your previous statement. You are correct, you did say he didn't state it like I did not that he hasn't said it at all. Although, he still hasn't said anything about it. Your first three articles all reference each other as their source for believing Cruz is against abortion in the matter of rape. I guess cause one of them said it it must be true. That is just laughable. Huffington Post, that was a fun little read that didn't say anything about Cruz and his stance on abortion. It mentioned Dr. Campbell and what it believes is her stance, but fails to offer any sources.

Then My San Antonio which finally has Cruz in his own words yet it still tries to put words in his mouth. "Cruz would allow abortion only in cases in which the mother's life is in jeopardy: “I think that every human life is a precious gift from God and should be protected in law from conception until natural death.”" He didn't say anything about protecting a mothers life or in the case of rape here, did he? And he hasn't said anything about it because he wont. He isn't going to play this game of got you which the liberal media and people like you are trying to do. So you cannot sit there and say you know what his stance is because you do not know. It is safe to say he is pro-life, that we know. Specifics, it appears he doesn't want to go there. Now you can disagree with him and not vote for him because he will not indulge on what his stance is and would rather talk about other issues, that is fair. But to try and put words in his mouth and say what his stance is is not fair.

Food for thought... have you ever thought about this. Maybe he has not said anything about it and doesn't want to because he is against abortion except in the cases of protecting the mother's life, incest, and rape but does not want to say that because he does not want to offend voters on that side of the issue? There are people who do believe this rather its right or wrong and the fact is that those who do believe it are probably going to vote for him so I doubt he wants to throw them and their votes under the bus.

FYI that is hardly every news source in America and yes they just might have the wrong idea about him.

[Mean Green Scrappy]

GTWT and those that want to hug it out, I will be at the stadium at 9:00 AM on Saturday backed up to the old golf course by the shed. Come have a beer.

[Green P1]

And a complete non-answer. When does a specific human life begin?

Will you answer?

Once the ole broad starts gettin all fat n stuff?

[glick1980]

My friend, thank you for sharing these articles. They do nothing but show how the liberal media is at work here trying to build a story out of something that has been a miscue for a few Republicans and now they want to spread it to other conservative politicians by trying to play this gotcha game. I am sorry that I originally misread your previous statement. You are correct, you did say he didn't state it like I did not that he hasn't said it at all. Although, he still hasn't said anything about it. Your first three articles all reference each other as their source for believing Cruz is against abortion in the matter of rape. I guess cause one of them said it it must be true. That is just laughable. Huffington Post, that was a fun little read that didn't say anything about Cruz and his stance on abortion. It mentioned Dr. Campbell and what it believes is her stance, but fails to offer any sources.

Then My San Antonio which finally has Cruz in his own words yet it still tries to put words in his mouth. "Cruz would allow abortion only in cases in which the mother's life is in jeopardy: “I think that every human life is a precious gift from God and should be protected in law from conception until natural death.”" He didn't say anything about protecting a mothers life or in the case of rape here, did he? And he hasn't said anything about it because he wont. He isn't going to play this game of got you which the liberal media and people like you are trying to do. So you cannot sit there and say you know what his stance is because you do not know. It is safe to say he is pro-life, that we know. Specifics, it appears he doesn't want to go there. Now you can disagree with him and not vote for him because he will not indulge on what his stance is and would rather talk about other issues, that is fair. But to try and put words in his mouth and say what his stance is is not fair.

Food for thought... have you ever thought about this. Maybe he has not said anything about it and doesn't want to because he is against abortion except in the cases of protecting the mother's life, incest, and rape but does not want to say that because he does not want to offend voters on that side of the issue? There are people who do believe this rather its right or wrong and the fact is that those who do believe it are probably going to vote for him so I doubt he wants to throw them and their votes under the bus.

FYI that is hardly every news source in America and yes they just might have the wrong idea about him.

And here we go with the Liberal Media thing. All of those articles are in regards to a debate he had with Dewhurst. “I think that every human life is a precious gift from God and should be protected in law from conception until natural death.” Every human life means every human life. He doesn't have to use the word rape directly, use some logic. He says every woman that gets pregnant should be forced to have the baby, by law, regardless of the manner in which she became pregnant unless her life is in danger. This is an indisputatble fact, he said these things, just accept it and move on.