TJ Taylor news

[Brett Vito]

http://meangreenblog.dentonrc.com/2012/10/tj-taylor-will-sit-out.html/

[Harry]

Disappointing but not surprising. Glad to have him in the program and look forward to seeing him play next year.

[UNT90]

Denied it as soon as they saw "North Texas" on the letterhead.

Hope his Labrium heals up well.

[BillySee58]

Darn. Really wanted him in our last year of TM, thought he might be a difference maker for us in march. Hopefully the ncaa will let him be classified as a soph in 13-14 since he has only played one year, although it will be his fourth year of college.

Looks like P.J. Hardwick and B Walton will get a lot of minutes off the bench, and the possibility of Overlander redshirting is probably gone now as well. Because we are so deep at the 3 (Patton, Franklin, Holmen, possibly TM) we could see J Will play some shooting guard as well as CJ playing there when P.J. is in. The most important thing to me is that CJ and J Will step up their play from beyond the arc. Walton and Overlander can shoot but they probably won't be in the game during crunch time like CJ and J Will.

We are still ridiculously deep and I can't wait for Monday!

[LakeTravis]

This makes no sense. He never even took any classes.

[BillySee58]

This makes no sense. He never even took any classes.

You're right. Really hoped they would take that into account but the NCAA looks down on transferring after signing that LOI. After you sign an LOI you are at the mercy of the NCAA.

Edited October 12, 2012 by BillySee58

[UNT90]

You're right. Really hoped they would take that into account but the NCAA looks down on transferring after signing that LOI. After you sign an LOI you are at the mercy of the NCAA.

Unless, of course, you are transferring to an Oklahoma, Kentuky, Indiana, Syracuse, etc...

Wanna see an application denied for any reason? Transfer from a program like Marquette to a program like UNT. Denial is automatic.

We never walked on the moon, Elvis ain't dead, you ain't going crazy, it's all in your head.

[BillySee58]

Unless, of course, you are transferring to an Oklahoma, Kentuky, Indiana, Syracuse, etc...

Wanna see an application denied for any reason? Transfer from a program like Marquette to a program like UNT. Denial is automatic.

We never walked on the moon, Elvis ain't dead, you ain't going crazy, it's all in your head.

Lol, who doesn't love a good conspiracy theory though, honestly? I wish we could hear how this decision was made, but the best thing for us, as the UNT that the NCAA hates, is to go where no one thought we ever could this year and start pulling top tier recruits out of high school leaving the NCAA with almost no way to deny us of that player.

We're getting there but I, along with everyone else, think this season will be the one to put us over the top.

[cdizzle86]

We never walked on the moon, Elvis ain't dead, you ain't going crazy, it's all in your head.

[Harry]

So what's the eligibility situation? He gets 3 to play 3 or 2 to play 2?

[BillySee58]

So what's the eligibility situation? He gets 3 to play 3 or 2 to play 2?

I'm not sure yet. It would have made it really simple if he would've been eligible to play this year, giving him 3 to play 3 as a current red-shirt sophomore. He graduated high school in 2010, meaning this is his third year of college, although he will only have played in 1 season. Because he sat out his first semester at OU with a concussion before transferring, and this year, we could make the case that he would've missed the year due to shoulder surgery anyways, we might be able to apply for a medical redshirt.

He might have to appeal for his medical redshirt after the 2014-2015 season (his current projected senior year) which would be after he showed that he was able to stay at the same college and show that he only got to play 3 seasons, including his year at Paris JC.

I would be surprised if they didn't grant him that third year because of his two major injuries both his freshman year and this year, but then again we are UNT so cross your fingers. In all seriousness, if the NCAA didn't give him 3 more years after to play for us that would be serious bs, especially if he is able to keep his grades up and stay here at UNT.

[UNT90]

I'm not sure yet. It would have made it really simple if he would've been eligible to play this year, giving him 3 to play 3 as a current red-shirt sophomore. He graduated high school in 2010, meaning this is his third year of college, although he will only have played in 1 season. Because he sat out his first semester at OU with a concussion before transferring, and this year, we could make the case that he would've missed the year due to shoulder surgery anyways, we might be able to apply for a medical redshirt.

He might have to appeal for his medical redshirt after the 2014-2015 season (his current projected senior year) which would be after he showed that he was able to stay at the same college and show that he only got to play 3 seasons, including his year at Paris JC.

I would be surprised if they didn't grant him that third year because of his two major injuries both his freshman year and this year, but then again we are UNT so cross your fingers. In all seriousness, if the NCAA didn't give him 3 more years after to play for us that would be serious bs, especially if he is able to keep his grades up and stay here at UNT.

You can forget about a medical redshift this year. The NCAA ruled he had to sit out this year. That negates any shot at a medical red shirt.

Also, you can't apply for a medical redshift 3 years later, so the OU injury has no bearing. He will miss this year, then have 2 years of eligibility left starting in 2013.

I think...

[Harry]

I think...

I'm rubbing my magic lamp for the Vito-genie to appear and save the North Texas day again!

[Andrew]

I do not see why he would not have 3 years left...

[UNT90]

I do not see why he would not have 3 years left...

Because you don't get 2 redshift years, unless you get a medical red shirt. This will be his 3rd year of college (one at OU, one at JC, and this year at UNT). You get 5 years to play 4. It doesn't matter how many years you actually play, it matters how many years you are in college.

Edited October 15, 2012 by UNT90

[BillySee58]

You can forget about a medical redshift this year. The NCAA ruled he had to sit out this year. That negates any shot at a medical red shirt.

Also, you can't apply for a medical redshift 3 years later, so the OU injury has no bearing. He will miss this year, then have 2 years of eligibility left starting in 2013.

I think...

I remember Jordan Shipley getting a sixth year for the longhorns in 09 after playing perfectly healthy in 08. He got a medical redshirt for years prior to that, that he was injured for the majority of.

As far as the NCAA goes, their goal, paraphrased, is to allow players to play for 4 healthy seasons. I know that TJ would sit out this year regardless, but because he has had to sit out for two years, with one due to injury, the NCAA can allow one of those years to serve as his redshirt (this year) and the other to serve as a medical redshirt.

From what I have seen, him being granted three more years to PLAY should not be a huge issue, but things don't always seem to make sense/work out for us when it comes to the NCAA. We are at the mercy of the NCAA with this so we have to hope for the best.

Edited October 15, 2012 by BillySee58

[Andrew]

so? They only count years you play...he should have 3 years left because he has only played one. He could keep going and play when he is 40 as long as his eligibility is still good. With a few exceptions I know.... My buddy transferred here from k state where he play db for 3 years and sat out two years at unt and the NCAA said he could not play at unt because he did not keep his eligibility up via paperwork the previous two years. He said if je had done it he could have played. He was on scholarship all 3 years at kasnsas state.

[meangreenacct]

so? They only count years you play...he should have 3 years left because he has only played one. He could keep going and play when he is 40 as long as his eligibility is still good. With a few exceptions I know.... My buddy transferred here from k state where he play db for 3 years and sat out two years at unt and the NCAA said he could not play at unt because he did not keep his eligibility up via paperwork the previous two years. He said if je had done it he could have played. He was on scholarship all 3 years at kasnsas state.

So in you scenario you could theoretically redshirt a player for 4 or 5 years until you needed him? Yea, that's exactly how it works...

[Andrew]

So in you scenario you could theoretically redshirt a player for 4 or 5 years until you needed him? Yea, that's exactly how it works...

You never lose eligibility... You have to play four years... It does not matter ifnyou re 24 or 44. I could care less what you think. I have seen the paper work from the NCAA.

[Andrew]

Also tj took shots tonight but hardiwck sat. His arm looked fine to me.

[BillySee58]

You have to exhaust your eligibility first before you can apply for the 6th year exception. He has to get to through his 5th year and then apply to the NCAA for his 6th due to injury.

Exactly. This was my Jordan Shipley citation

[TheTastyGreek]

You never lose eligibility... You have to play four years... It does not matter ifnyou re 24 or 44. I could care less what you think. I have seen the paper work from the NCAA.

I've seen the paperwork, too. Here it is: http://www.ncaapubli...nloads/D113.pdf

Short answer: You do NOT have an indeterminate period of time to play 4 years. The clock starts when you first enroll, and other than a few blanket exemptions, it only stops for extreme circumstances, and then only by a 2/3rds vote of the Committee on Student-Athlete Reinstatement.

Relevant sections:

14.2.1 Five-year rule. A student-athlete shall complete his or her seasons of participation within five calendar years from the beginning of the semester or quarter in which the student-athlete first registered for a minimum

full-time program of studies in a collegiate institution, with time spent in the armed services, on official religious

missions or with recognized foreign aid services of the U.S. government being excepted. For international students, service in the armed forces or on an official religious mission of the student’s home country is considered

equivalent to such service in the United States.

14.2.1.1 Determining the Start of the Five-Year Period. For purposes of starting the count of time under

the five-year rule, a student-athlete shall be considered registered at a collegiate institution (domestic or foreign;

see Bylaw 14.02.3) when the student-athlete initially registers in a regular term (semester or quarter) of an

academic year for a minimum full-time program of studies, as determined by the institution, and attends the

student’s first day of classes for that term (see Bylaw 14.2.2).

Waiver procedure and some examples are covered in 14.2.1.5.

Unless T.J. is/was: Pregnant, in the military, or doing a Mormon mission, he doesn't get any automatic extra time. He will need an approved 6th year to play out a full college career. It can happen (they outline previous examples of approved waivers of the 5 year clock, like comas, natural disasters, extreme financial hardship, and a few others), but the rule is very clear and anything outside 5-to-play-4 is NOT a given.

Clock started when he enrolled at Oklahoma. Unless he gets a waiver, it runs out in 2014-15.

Year 1 = 2010- Oklahoma (did not play, traditional redshirt... But the 5 year clock starts here)

Year 2 = 2011- JUCO

Year 3 = 2012- Marquette, then North Texas (barring a reversal, can not play per transfer rules)

Year 4 = 2013- North Texas

Year 5 = 2014- North Texas

If he doesn't get a medical hardship waiver or some sort of special dispensation per 14.2.1.5, he'll only get 3 years of on-court eligibility during his 5 year clock.

[Andrew]

That cleared it up. Though it does not explain how people can go back to college and play again when they are in their 30s. Or why my friendhad paper work to fill out every year. He was told he gets 4 years on the field for the rest of his life. Not a 5 year plan...

[greenminer]

You never lose eligibility... You have to play four years... It does not matter ifnyou re 24 or 44. I could care less what you think. I have seen the paper work from the NCAA.

Anyone can. As seen below, they post their docs online for anyone such as myself to review. The NCAA seems very clear about being eligible to play relative to your first 5 years of collegiate enrollment.

See Rule 5. Academic Standards – All Sports., Section C. Continuing Eligibility

http://fs.ncaa.org/D...Regulations.pdf

If you are enrolling for a 6th year or beyond, the above document reads like you will have to ask for a waiver/exception. That applies even if you have not competed/practiced all 4 years.

Most importantly, regarding the 5 year rule: Rule 6 Other Regulations Concerning Eligibility – All, Section b

You are not eligible if five calendar years have passed from the date you first registered as a full-time student at a collegiate institution and attended your first day of classes for that term, except for time spent in the armed services, on official church missions or with recognized international aid services of the U.S. government and extensions that have been approved in accordance with NCAA legislation. [bylaw 14.2.1]

I don't know Skiver; based on the above either you did not hear your friend correctly or he was misinformed. Unless he began college prior August 2003, when those rules were applied. Sorry!

Edited October 16, 2012 by greenminer

[greenminer]

Whelp. Tasty beat me to it. Virtual +1, sir