It's not time to throw in the towel.....

trussbussdad · October 8, 2012

After looking at several blogs in here ...negative blogs....want to invite you all to go out and look at our "strength in schedule" vs other SBC opponents. NO ONE comes close to our schedule in difficulty. Yes, we should have won Troy game...but we beat that dead dog enough on why that game got away from us. But NO ONE has a non conf schedule like we did with LSU, K. ST. and Houston. Honestly, these are games that we could have won, but are they games we "should" have won??!!! MAYBE ...MAYBE Houston.

We are about to get into the conf schedule. There is no way we should give up on a team that 3 of the 4 losses come from previously mentioned.

These are our classmates, friends, relatives..some of us our own kids....support them like they are.

Guess we will see who is TRUE MEAN GREEN next Tuesday night with ULL game.

Edited October 8, 2012 by trussbussdad

CurveItAround · October 8, 2012

Let's review what our 'tough' OOC schedule has gotten us. Here are some things I have seen posted:

1. Is Coach Mac the right person / how much more time should he be given

2. Replace the QB

3. Offense is too predictable

4. Fans 'Done' with the program

5. Our upcoming TV game won't have anyone there

6. Cheerleaders aren't cheering correctly

7. Etc...

It just reinforces the point that while fans say they want a tough schedule so they can thump their chest and brag to their friends, what they really mean is that they want a tough schedule as long as they are also winning. I believe we are in capable hands with RV and Coach Mac. I have not seen anything to make me think otherwise at this point.

Edited October 8, 2012 by CurveItAround

buff64 · October 8, 2012

After looking at several blogs in here ...negative blogs....want to invite you all to go out and look at our "strength in schedule" vs other SBC opponents. NO ONE comes close to our schedule in difficulty. Yes, we should have won Troy game...but we beat that dead dog enough on why that game got away from us. But NO ONE has a non conf schedule like we did with LSU, K. ST. and Houston. Honestly, these are games that we could have won, but are they games we "should" have won??!!! MAYBE ...MAYBE Houston.
We are about to get into the conf schedule. There is no way we should give up on a team that 3 of the 4 losses come from previously mentioned.
These are our classmates, friends, relatives..some of us our own kids....support them like they are.
Guess we will see who is TRUE MEAN GREEN next Tuesday night with ULL game.

Excellent post. Look at the facts, playing 10 or so scholarships short, and Jrs. and Srs. recruited by previous staff. You win with Srs. Coach Mac is playing with two classes of his recruits and he got a late start on his first class. Progress, look at the physical difference of the team compared with the team met when he first arrived. Look at the discipline improvment, academic improvement. Cheer the expectations , which are expressed every day. Support the program, the kids, the coaches. Better times are coming.

UNTLifer · October 8, 2012

Excellent post. Look at the facts, playing 10 or so scholarships short, and Jrs. and Srs. recruited by previous staff. You win with Srs. Coach Mac is playing with two classes of his recruits and he got a late start on his first class. Progress, look at the physical difference of the team compared with the team met when he first arrived. Look at the discipline improvment, academic improvement. Cheer the expectations , which are expressed every day. Support the program, the kids, the coaches. Better times are coming.

Amen.

meaniegreenie · October 8, 2012

I've heard Coach Mac say after several games that the team had a great week of work and that he is happy with the effort. I don't think he's just doing "coach speak" to all of this. I really think he sees a team that is generally made up of less talent than the opponents, but that they are giving it their very best effort in practice and on the field. If this really is true, then it is a good sign that Mac is getting buy-in from the players. Yes, it would be better if they were able to constantly play above their skill level, but that's not likely to happen.

CurveItAround · October 8, 2012

Can someone enlighten us on why exactly we are playing 10 schollies short? Program decision? Todd Dodge? SMU?

casual fan · October 8, 2012

In 2007 we lost to OU 79-10 & Arkansas 66-7. In 2008 we lost to K st 45-6, LSU 41-3, & Rice 77-20. In 2009 Alabama 53-7. We have made some progress and suddenly people go nuts if we lose to an unranked team.

Look, this year we lost to LSU 41-14 & Kansas St. 35 -21. We looked more respectable and expectations skyrocketed. The problem is it's hard to judge progress against top ranked teams. LSU beats you bad. You make improvements and LSU still beats you bad. You make more improvements and they leave their starters in the game and still beat you pretty bad. Also, how hard is it for them to get up for the game. Seriously.

You find out more playing teams that are close to your level.

We need to learn how to win. This is a process not an instant fix. We need to build a record for a few years, go to some bowl games, win a couple of those, and then schedule one ranked team per year. A team that learns how to win becomes dangerous even when they are overmatched.

H-towngreen · October 8, 2012

Can someone enlighten us on why exactly we are playing 10 schollies short? Program decision? Todd Dodge? SMU?

Several reasons. Todd Dodge going after Juco's, players leaving during the Dodge era, and poor academics.

Harry · October 8, 2012

H-Town is right -- by allowing Dodge the 4th year, we saved some money that we probably used to lure Mac but it set us back an entire year. When you give Dodge ANOTHER year, you essentially have tied his hands behind his back with the high school players whose parents know he isn't long for the world. Dodge has to go juco which means boom or bust. So yes this extra year is still hurting us.

Harry · October 8, 2012

Let me add one thing... Mac is doing this the right way and I do believe that it will pay dividends. He's redshirting the majority of every class which is 99% high school recruits. If you look historically it took Dickey 3.5 years to start to see the dividend and we are just at the 1.5 point with Mac.

I can't emphasize enough how much the QB position makes a difference. Tulsa is seeing that this season. They had a string of just OUTSTANDING QB's including Paul Johnson and GJ Kinne and now this season they have come back to earth. UNT has been QB starved from a depth perspective since Vizza left the program.

UNT90 · October 8, 2012

After looking at several blogs in here ...negative blogs....want to invite you all to go out and look at our "strength in schedule" vs other SBC opponents. NO ONE comes close to our schedule in difficulty. Yes, we should have won Troy game...but we beat that dead dog enough on why that game got away from us. But NO ONE has a non conf schedule like we did with LSU, K. ST. and Houston. Honestly, these are games that we could have won, but are they games we "should" have won??!!! MAYBE ...MAYBE Houston.
We are about to get into the conf schedule. There is no way we should give up on a team that 3 of the 4 losses come from previously mentioned.
These are our classmates, friends, relatives..some of us our own kids....support them like they are.
Guess we will see who is TRUE MEAN GREEN next Tuesday night with ULL game.

Don't worry, we are just fans griping after a loss.

The people on here are not the ones you need to worry about not showing up. They will take vacation time off to be there all day Tuesday. They will be the ones yelling at the top of their lungs in support of your child.

People who don't know this board exists? Well, that's another story.

MeanGreenHoops · October 8, 2012

Let me add one thing... Mac is doing this the right way and I do believe that it will pay dividends. He's redshirting the majority of every class which is 99% high school recruits. If you look historically it took Dickey 3.5 years to start to see the dividend and we are just at the 1.5 point with Mac.

Harry, Not trying to dispute you but this reminded me of a thought I have when I see someone post a comment like this. If we were so bad, slow, and undersized as Mac has said when he got here, and if he was doing a great job recruiting since then, wouldn't that mean those incoming players would be on the field rather than redshirting? I don't think we have a single true freshmen starting this year. I can tell the team is so much better than Dodge's teams, but the incoming classes aren't so much better that they are stepping in right away. I think that is part of why the improvement has leveled off this year versus last. Or, I could be wrong

Harry · October 8, 2012

Harry, Not trying to dispute you but this reminded me of a thought I have when I see someone post a comment like this. If we were so bad, slow, and undersized as Mac has said when he got here, and if he was doing a great job recruiting since then, wouldn't that mean those incoming players would be on the field rather than redshirting? I don't think we have a single true freshmen starting this year. I can tell the team is so much better than Dodge's teams, but the incoming classes aren't so much better that they are stepping in right away. I think that is part of why the improvement has leveled off this year versus last. Or, I could be wrong

I think that's a valid point, and please feel free to dispute me at your leisure!

BillySee58 · October 8, 2012

Harry, Not trying to dispute you but this reminded me of a thought I have when I see someone post a comment like this. If we were so bad, slow, and undersized as Mac has said when he got here, and if he was doing a great job recruiting since then, wouldn't that mean those incoming players would be on the field rather than redshirting? I don't think we have a single true freshmen starting this year. I can tell the team is so much better than Dodge's teams, but the incoming classes aren't so much better that they are stepping in right away. I think that is part of why the improvement has leveled off this year versus last. Or, I could be wrong

As much as we like to bash Dodge, one thing he did leave us with was a solid 2010 high school class. Zach Orr, Y'Barbo, Antonio Johnson, Chancellor, Bellazin, Will Wright, Teagarden, Olen, etc. That class didn't feature very many high school recruits, but the ones it did leave us with are valuable contributors. They, along with the 2011 class that was mainly Mac and some Dodge, are providing us the bulk of the depth to redshirt the 2012 freshman along with a few 2009 holdovers and walk-ons.

BillySee58 · October 8, 2012

Although it would be nice to see some freshman who are good enough to contribute anyways, despite depth. We have a few but hopefully we see some more emerge this year or at least next year.

meaniegreenie · October 8, 2012

Several reasons. Todd Dodge going after Juco's, players leaving during the Dodge era, and poor academics.

I found an older discussed this a bit more. Looks like Dodge invested heavily in JUCOs. What I don't understand is how that impacts the later scholarship numbers. Wouldn't the ones allocated to JUCOs expire and then be ready for Coach Mac by now. Is it that there just weren't enough decent, interested recruits in the past two classes to fill out our backlog? If so, why do we assume there'll be enough this year.

In that thread, Harry says, "When Dodge was heading into his 4th year, I pointed out here and in other places that we were really hurting the UNT program, as well as the new coach that took his place and the opening of our new stadium. The reason was, Dodge HAD to win to save his job and he was willing to mortgage the future of the program to do it via juco. Dodge knew that he could not get it done with the players he had and could not get it done in time through high school recruits."

CurveItAround · October 9, 2012

I found an older discussed this a bit more. Looks like Dodge invested heavily in JUCOs. What I don't understand is how that impacts the later scholarship numbers. Wouldn't the ones allocated to JUCOs expire and then be ready for Coach Mac by now. Is it that there just weren't enough decent, interested recruits in the past two classes to fill out our backlog? If so, why do we assume there'll be enough this year.

In that thread, Harry says, "When Dodge was heading into his 4th year, I pointed out here and in other places that we were really hurting the UNT program, as well as the new coach that took his place and the opening of our new stadium. The reason was, Dodge HAD to win to save his job and he was willing to mortgage the future of the program to do it via juco. Dodge knew that he could not get it done with the players he had and could not get it done in time through high school recruits."

I have not gone back through what TD signed in his last years, but here is my understanding of how it could hurt. The NCAA limits Div IA teams to 85 total scholarships and limits programs to 25 new players per year. If on the way out Dodge loaded up with Juco transfers in an effort to 'win now' they would have come over as juniors. Therefore, when these Juco transers graduate two years later there are no underclassmen to take their place.

The NCAA limit of 25 new players prevents programs from 'catching up' by adding a lot of new players to replace the outgoing ones. Once you start down the Juco path, you pretty much have to stick with it. The problem is you are not guaranteed to be able to get the players you want or need. A lot of programs restrict their use of Jucos to fill in due to attrition or if someone blows up in Juco (i.e. Cam Newton).

Edited October 9, 2012 by CurveItAround

buff64 · October 9, 2012

Can someone enlighten us on why exactly we are playing 10 schollies short? Program decision? Todd Dodge? SMU?

NCAA scholarship cuts due to academic shortfalls.

casual fan · October 9, 2012

McCarney is building a team the right way. He is redshirting as many players as he can and he still has 20 freshmen & sophomores in the 2 deep lineup.

Put freshmen in the weight room and let them develop. It will pay off in the long run.

VideoEagle · October 9, 2012

McCarney is building a team the right way. He is redshirting as many players as he can and he still has 20 freshmen & sophomores in the 2 deep lineup.
Put freshmen in the weight room and let them develop. It will pay off in the long run.

This is the way to build for sustained success down the road. As the time passes in this system the you be playing with a greater number of upper classmen with redshirts ready to move in the next year. The problem is this is going to hurt a team for the first two or three years. It's like saving money for tomorrow, clearly it's the best way to operate but goes against the need for instant success many want.

H-towngreen · October 9, 2012

Redshirting is most beneficial to D-linemen. Giving them the time to get into the weight room for that 1st year and putting on the proper type of weight.

Grant.UNT · October 9, 2012

YOU JUST LOST A LISTENER!!

Proud North Texan · October 11, 2012

Just wave the hell out of it..!! Go Mean Green

tylermeangreen · October 11, 2012

Redshirting is most beneficial to D-linemen. Giving them the time to get into the weight room for that 1st year and putting on the proper type of weight.

I am certainly counting on that being the case with Sir Calvin!