You guys think utsa is legit....

MeanGreenTexan · October 2, 2012

Denial: avoiding reality by denying its existence.

How many schools from small conferences made it to the big leagues by playing the hardest teams they could schedule?

Boise is the poster child for how to get there nationally.
From 1999- 2007 how many top 25 teams did they play (not counting bowls)? 4 two were conference games.
When they beat Oklahoma in the Fiesta bowl, that was the first ranked team they had played that year.
They went 13-0 and they were the only undefeated team.
They were ranked 5th & got the only vote for first place other than Florida - the national champions.
They got there by winning. They didn't get there by having season after season wrecked by body bag fiascos.

There are dozens of small conference teams that continually play money games year after year.
They are stuck on a treadmill to nowhere.
We need to build a winning tradition.

I agree.

So, when are we playing Bacon State?

GL2Greatness · October 2, 2012

OK. Here's another chance for you to answer 2 straightforward questions:

Moving forward, against FBS competition and a salty FCS McNeese, how many games to you expect UTSA to win?

I'm saying 0, maybe 1.

Once they finish out the year 0-fer, what will their attendance look like?

I think they will probably win 3 more games including McNeese

Idaho and possibly San Jose State or maybe an upset of anyone, but La Tech

I think their attendance will average about 30-32K for the rest of the year and average out about 31K for the year

would not shock me if they won only 2 more games including McNeese

Eagle1855 · October 2, 2012

So, when are we playing Bacon State?

Or Avocado U and Guac State.

CurveItAround · October 2, 2012

Or Avocado U and Guac State.

casual fan · October 2, 2012

GL2Greatness, you made me laugh so hard I spit coffee out my nose with your "I won't think they are legit" rant. +1

Perception is reality. UTSA has 4 remaining home games. Even if they loses all their remaining games, they will not go under 500 until their final home game with Texas St and by then their attendace will be pretty much set. If they win 1 game they stay above 500. They are smart to play weak teams early as being 5-0 has to really help their attendance.

If they had been beaten up by some big teams, it would have set their program back and we would not be asking if they are legit or not. I doubt they're worrying about what others think. They're just trying to build a program and get it off the ground.

aztecskin · October 3, 2012

Rice is very beatable. Assuming the worst against the best teams in the WAC (that is to say 0-3 vs La Tech, SJ St, and Utah St) that thing could be 8-3 headed in to the big finale against . . . Texas State. So a very legit chance to go 9-3.

As far as exposure? Well lots of national media types are tweeting/writing up puff stories summed up thusly: "Hey, would ya look at that?" I mean, look at this thread, even.

After we beat up on Texas Southern, lots of students and Generic Fans were were excited about the win. Only the die-hard cares about the ranking of the opponent. The good news is that we get to take on the likes of South Alabama for a little win-column padding of our own.

Monkeypox · October 3, 2012

Rice is very beatable. Assuming the worst against the best teams in the WAC (that is to say 0-3 vs La Tech, SJ St, and Utah St) that thing could be 8-3 headed in to the big finale against . . . Texas State. So a very legit chance to go 9-3.

As far as exposure? Well lots of national media types are tweeting/writing up puff stories summed up thusly: "Hey, would ya look at that?" I mean, look at this thread, even.

After we beat up on Texas Southern, lots of students and Generic Fans were were excited about the win. Only the die-hard cares about the ranking of the opponent. The good news is that we get to take on the likes of South Alabama for a little win-column padding of our own.

I have yet to see a single story about UTSA in the national media... well, not including the "Where are they now?" type segments on Coker. Casual fans might have gotten excited about the Texas Southern win (none that I know of), but there weren't any stories about it around the metromess, much less nationally, and unlike the K-State and LSU games, nobody was on the radio talking about how we looked and what was happening up here. You know, there was a time when North Texas won a bunch of easy games, and outside of this board, nobody cared. Because people aren't stupid. If anyone brings up that UTSA record, the first thing out of someone's mouth is "yeah, but who did they play?" People who've been around here should know this. People talking about Boise State should know this, because they (Boise fans) had to hear it every year, even once they started winning against ranked opponents... until such time as they did it regularly.

I think it's a great strategy for UTSA. As said before, they've little competition in their market, and it's a football hungry one. They don't have to sell a product as "really good" yet. They only have to sell it as new. If we had a TRULY had a market and an established conference home like UTSA when we started up again in Div. 1A, I think we could've had that same strategy. But we didn't and we couldn't.

Right now, I'm hoping the increased revenue from being in CUSA and the new stadium will help to eliminate some of the body bag games and give us more home and homes and some easier early season opponents. I don't have any problem scheduling tough teams, however, because you never know when you might catch them in a down year or surprise them, or, heck, maybe some day you'll actually have a good football team. It's not stopped several of our conference mates from taking on (and beating) some of the big boys. We seem to be the only ones who consider them automatic losses.

Rudy · October 3, 2012

I think they will probably win 3 more games including McNeese

Idaho and possibly San Jose State or maybe an upset of anyone, but La Tech

I think their attendance will average about 30-32K for the rest of the year and average out about 31K for the year

would not shock me if they won only 2 more games including McNeese

Oh damn, Idaho, that would be a marquee win.

I don't even think Idaho fans know they are FBS

mgfan · October 3, 2012

No utsa is not legit.

But they are building their program the right way.

Ive said before and ill say it again NO BODY BAG GAMES.

UNT90 · October 3, 2012

Except we're an FBS team. Going undefeated in FBS does in fact raise the profile of your program. We've seen it happen more than once.

But you said competition doesn't matter.

If that's the case, let's just go independant, play a UTSA-esqe schedule, and beat the snot outta everyone we play.

I'm sure that would generate excitement.

trussbussdad · October 3, 2012

Casual Fan...5 - 0 with two wins on D2 schools...not so much. I agree that the "money" games vs LSU and K st are over-rated, but for as long as the eye can see we have at least one of those. I would not mind scheduling against teams like New Mex or New Mes St., Col St., or even UTSA...but to schedule D2 schools is not legit. Would be like a 5A power house scheduling a 2A game.

Edited October 3, 2012 by trussbussdad

CurveItAround · October 3, 2012

Casual Fan...5 - 0 with two wins on D2 schools...not so much. I agree that the "money" games vs LSU and K st are over-rated, but for as long as the eye can see we have at least one of those. I would not mind scheduling against teams like New Mex or New Mes St., Col St., or even UTSA...but to schedule D2 schools is not legit. Would be like a 5A power house scheduling a 2A game.

I don't think anyone has suggessted that UNT schedule DII schools. For the most post I have ssen people asking to get rid of the money games against top 15 teams. How about having enough respect for ourselves that we only schedule FBS teams that are willing to schedule home/home series? If UT, OU, LSU, A&M, etc... are willing to come to our place, let's get it on. If not, let someone else be their bought and paid for little toy.

Since this thread is loosely based on UTSA and the legitimacy of their schedule, take a look a their OOC schedule (www.fbschedules.com) for the next several years and look at the FBS programs that they have home/home series with (Arizona, Houston, Ok St., New Mex, Col St, Baylor). Oddly enough, no body bag games.

Our upcoming OOC schedule has a body bag game on it for the next 6 years.

casual fan · October 3, 2012

The last time a team not from the big 6 won a national championship was 1984. BYU did it playing in the WAC. The WAC!!!???!!!

There were some major on air arguments that they didn't deserve it because their schedule was not legit. However, they were voted unanimously in the polls as the National Champions. All the major teams had at least 2 blemishes on their records. BYU was 12-0.

Were they the best team? Probably not, but it makes no difference as they were the National Champions.

Wins are better than moral victories.

meangreendork · October 3, 2012

Wins are better than moral victories.

This would make sense if UTSA was scheduling the likes of Houston, Western Kentucky, Boise, or Tulsa.

What you're saying that it's cool to trounce the 100lb 12 year-old in a fist fight as opposed to going round-for-round and hit-for-hit with Brock Lesnar. Beating up the 100lb. kid makes you a douchebag. Coming close to winning against a bigger/faster/stronger opponent means you can compete.

Edited October 3, 2012 by meangreendork

Eagle1855 · October 3, 2012

But you said competition doesn't matter.

If that's the case, let's just go independant, play a UTSA-esqe schedule, and beat the snot outta everyone we play.

I'm sure that would generate excitement.

I had a vague comment about not caring if we barely lose to a BCS conference team because a loss is a loss, no matter how many back-rubs we give each other about it.

I'd like to see a local FCS opponent on the schedule every year. And then I'd like to stop playing games against teams that won't give us a return game.

I don't think winning at the FCS level is comparable to FBS anymore than I think Triple A baseball is the same as MLB. We are in the top division in college football, so yes, winning out means more to me than playing within 27 points of LSU on the road. And it always will.

UNT90 · October 3, 2012

I had a vague comment about not caring if we barely lose to a BCS conference team because a loss is a loss, no matter how many back-rubs we give each other about it.

I'd like to see a local FCS opponent on the schedule every year. And then I'd like to stop playing games against teams that won't give us a return game.

I don't think winning at the FCS level is comparable to FBS anymore than I think Triple A baseball is the same as MLB. We are in the top division in college football, so yes, winning out means more to me than playing within 27 points of LSU on the road. And it always will.

Even against terrible FCS competition?

We garnered more respect in the loss to K State (and then lost that respect the next week) than we will ever gain by playing crap FCS teams. Get the LSUs and Alabamas off the schedule (should have never been there in the first place), get a 2 for 1 from a Kansas St., T Tech, Illinios, etc.. (a team you have a chance against), and STOP SIGNING ANY MONEY GAMES WITHOUT A RETURN (see a 2 for 0 with freaking Iowa)!!!!

Act like a grown up football program, for goodness sakes.

Eagle1855 · October 3, 2012

Even against terrible FCS competition?

Yes. If you forced me to choose, I'd rather have the win over Texas Southern than the loss to LSU.

CurveItAround · October 3, 2012

Even against terrible FCS competition?

We garnered more respect in the loss to K State (and then lost that respect the next week) than we will ever gain by playing crap FCS teams. Get the LSUs and Alabamas off the schedule (should have never been there in the first place), get a 2 for 1 from a Kansas St., T Tech, Illinios, etc.. (a team you have a chance against), and STOP SIGNING ANY MONEY GAMES WITHOUT A RETURN (see a 2 for 0 with freaking Iowa)!!!!

Act like a grown up football program, for goodness sakes.

I disagree with offering 2 for 1 games. I do agree that we should stop selling the program out to the highest bidder. Those days should be behind us. Our new conference schedule should be strong enough to garner fan support coupled with reasonable home/home OOC schedule. If we want respect then we should demand respect.

Edited October 3, 2012 by CurveItAround

Cougar King · October 3, 2012

Shedding the body bag games is the first step to shedding a loser mentality. If anybody on the UH board was to talk about being satisfied with losing by less than 21 points to somebody like LSU, they would get driven off of the board. Part of being a winner is thinking like one, stop accepting mediocrity. Accept the best and nothing less.

golfingomez · October 4, 2012

Or Avocado U and Guac State.

What about eggs?!?!?

Monkeypox · October 4, 2012

Shedding the body bag games is the first step to shedding a loser mentality. If anybody on the UH board was to talk about being satisfied with losing by less than 21 points to somebody like LSU, they would get driven off of the board. Part of being a winner is thinking like one, stop accepting mediocrity. Accept the best and nothing less.

Just so I get this straight, thinking like a winner means assuming you'll lose against good teams and thusly scheduling as weak a competition as you can?

Cougar King · October 4, 2012

Just so I get this straight, thinking like a winner means assuming you'll lose against good teams and thusly scheduling as weak a competition as you can?

As I recall, we went up to Stillwater and beat a Top 5 Okie Lite team and then the following week at The Rob, we sent a ranked Texas Tech team back home to Lubbock in tears. Oh, I can't forget going up to Starkville and beating SEC Mississippi State. All in a span of 5 games. Nice try though.

UNT wouldn't have went 12-0 with our "weak" schedule from last year. We blew you guys out in your own home opener and then you got wrecked by Tulsa. We went up to Tulsa and humiliated them on TV beating them by 32 points. Again, nice try.

Monkeypox · October 4, 2012

As I recall, we went up to Stillwater and beat a Top 5 Okie Lite team and then the following week at The Rob, we sent a ranked Texas Tech team back home to Lubbock in tears. Oh, I can't forget going up to Starkville and beating SEC Mississippi State. All in a span of 5 games. Nice try though.

UNT wouldn't have went 12-0 with our "weak" schedule from last year. We blew you guys out in your own home opener and then you got wrecked by Tulsa. We went up to Tulsa and humiliated them on TV beating them by 32 points. Again, nice try.

Except you didn't actually address my point at all. So I'd say "nice try," but it wasn't.

Aquila_Viridis · October 4, 2012

This is easy. We all know how bad it feels to go away from a home game with a loss. That repeated feeling has sucked a lot of life out the system. Hardly anybody will keep coming back for it. We need to get way more people out to home games regularly. It really doesn't matter what the team does on the road. We just need for people to know they are going to have a good time. Losing is not a good time.

And further I don't like close games. I basically want to be out there to watch our team win and know for certain the whole time that they will. I only care about positive energy, seeing the Mean Green make big plays on offense and defense, have good execution on offense, and have a defense that makes the other team run around like clowns. That's entertainment. With the added benefit of the dancing girls and other things we are doing right, it's certainly a show I will be happy to watch six or seven times a season and bring people to. If we get to a point where that show has gotten old, then we will probably find ourselves with a lot of opportunities for the program then.

casual fan · October 4, 2012

This would make sense if UTSA was scheduling the likes of Houston, Western Kentucky, Boise, or Tulsa.
What you're saying that it's cool to trounce the 100lb 12 year-old in a fist fight as opposed to going round-for-round and hit-for-hit with Brock Lesnar. Beating up the 100lb. kid makes you a douchebag. Coming close to winning against a bigger/faster/stronger opponent means you can compete.

In the past 5 years we have played 23 out of conference games. We won 3.

We are 0-5 against the SEC while being outscored 242-31.

We are 0-4 against the Big 12 while being outscored 208-78.

I hate to break it to you but for years we have been the 100 pound weakling.

Getting beat by an average of 37.9 points per game against those 2 conferences is one way to go, but in my eyes it hasn't earned us much respect.

The only way to build a winning attitude is by winning. UTSA seems to understand this. They are going to take their lumps in the future but they are allowing their players to taste winning. If they had played a "legit" schedule and were 0-5, their season would be over. We owe it to our players not to throw them to the wolves.