You guys think utsa is legit....

[UNTP1]

DING, DING, DING. I agree 100% 110%!

If we had played the weakest possible schedule and were 5-0, how much excitement would there be here? How would it influence attendance? How much of a buzz would it have with local media? It may be all smoke and mirrors, but the bottom line is UTSA is 5-0. Just for once it would be nice to be in that position.

The only reason they are getting any "media buzz" is because this is their 2nd year playing football. If we were 5-0 with their schedule we would be getting even less media attention than we're getting now. This type of thinking is an unfortunate side effect of the losing football culture we are trying to change. People become so desperate for wins that they decide playing below FBS competition in an attempt to have a good record is the answer. When in reality, doing so wouldn't help build this program but actually halt the process altogether. I understand and agree with the plan to stop playing top 5 or even top 10 programs every year but I do believe that those games as well as games against teams like K-state benefit our program both on the field and financially. Bottom line is I would rather say my team lost to the #7 ranked team in the country 21-35 than to brag about beating teams nobody has ever heard of. There are not many more embarrassing feelings than when you tell someone who your team is playing that week and having that person reply with "That's a real college?"

Edited October 1, 2012 by UNTP1

[CurveItAround]

You think that will work? Maybe for LSUs or Bamas, but say for Houston, SMU, Ole Miss etc, even if they schedule tough non-conf, do they really have a shot at the 4-team playoff? Don't think those kinds of programs get much incentive to schedule up.

Maybe I am missing your point, but I think the new formula was set up to exclude the Houston's and SMU's. Ole Miss is different because it belongs to a power conference. IF it schedules decent OOC AND wins the SEC, then yes I believe they would have a shot. Except for maybe a couple of programs that are not currently part of a power conference, I do not believe they will ever have a realistic shot, although I believe the BCS wants everyone to 'think' they have a shot. I think that there is less access to the BCS bowls under the new rules than the old rules.

[casual fan]

Plan A: How to build a program the hard way.

1. Start each season playing the highest ranked teams you can find while trying to build your program.

2. Get your head handed to you with bad loses and injured starters early in the season.

3. Lose the interest of sudents, fans, and worst of all recruits.

4. Wonder why your attendance is pathetic.

5. Repeat this year after year after year because "fans want to see you play the big boys."

6. Complain about other schools who play easy schedules and have winning records.

Plan B: How to build a program the easier way.

1. Play an easy schedule.

2. Build a good record with some easy wins.

3. Wins lead to the excitement of students, fans, and best of all recruits who are at games you win.

4. Boast about how your attendance is way better than a school in the center of Dallas.

5. Repeat this for a few years until you are ready to add a few big boys to your schedule.

6. Be amused about how other schools complain about how fast & easy you got there.

UTSA knows what will happen if they play the big boys. They just don't want their heads handed to them.

We are closer to getting there, but man, we are doing it the hard way. GMG

[MeanGreenTexan]

Plan A: How to build a program the hard way.

1. Start each season playing the highest ranked teams you can find while trying to build your program.

2. Get your head handed to you with bad loses and injured starters early in the season.

3. Lose the interest of sudents, fans, and worst of all recruits.

4. Wonder why your attendance is pathetic.

5. Repeat this year after year after year because "fans want to see you play the big boys."

6. Complain about other schools who play easy schedules and have winning records.

Plan B: How to build a program the easier way.

1. Play an easy schedule.

2. Build a good record with some easy wins.

3. Wins lead to the excitement of students, fans, and best of all recruits who are at games you win.

4. Boast about how your attendance is way better than a school in the center of Dallas.

5. Repeat this for a few years until you are ready to add a few big boys to your schedule.

6. Be amused about how other schools complain about how fast & easy you got there.

UTSA knows what will happen if they play the big boys. They just don't want their heads handed to them.

We are closer to getting there, but man, we are doing it the hard way. GMG

Let's see how this plays out at the end of the season.

[Rudy]

NO, end of discussion.

[Eagle1855]

North Texas gained more respect playing LSU & playing well at Kansas than we did by beating Texas Southern and FAU.

Oh I don't know about that. A loss is a loss. A win is a win.

Doesn't matter who they beat, they can sell a winning program to recruits. And that's all it takes.

[CurveItAround]

Oh I don't know about that. A loss is a loss. A win is a win.

Doesn't matter who they beat, they can sell a winning program to recruits. And that's all it takes.

I have to agree with win vs good loss, but...

I think we can all agree that if we are able to be the likes of UT, OU, Fla, Ga, OKST, KState, etc... then great.

However, if it means getting beat every time, then maybe not. Recruits can see through crappy schedules and with our new conference schedule, that should not be as much of a problem. When we were having to sell a recruit (typically TX kid) on a Sun Belt schedule against teams from the deep south, we had to put the big names on the schedule and take our lumps in order to get the recruits excited. I completely understand this.

I see that very differently with the upcoming CUSA schedule. Now we can keep a steady dose of SMU (maybe sprinkle UH in this spot as well), Army/service academies for a few years, maybe an FCS or a local like TXST or lower FBS, and one game against a power conference (would prefer to see this be a top 50 type instead of top 20, especially if we can get home/home). I know others see it a little differently in certain areas.

If you look at our upcoming schedule it looks a lot like what I am describing, except for the top 15 power team type is still sprinkled in over the next several years, and there are a couple of unknowns yet to be filled in. Time will tell.

[Monkeypox]

We don't play the big boys for respect. We play them for a paycheck.

[Eagle1855]

We don't play the big boys for respect. We play them for a paycheck.

Absolutely agree.

But let's say hypothetically we played UTSA's non-conference schedule and come out of the UH game with a win. We head back to Denton with a 6-0 record for an ESPN game against ULL. How many people do you think we have in the stands to see an UNDEFEATED UNT team for a nationally-televised game? A lot, I'd guess. Because undefeated is always more fun than a couple of good losses.

I'm starting to agree with the camp that sees big losses against National Title Contenders as momentum killers, not measuring sticks.

[CurveItAround]

We don't play the big boys for respect. We play them for a paycheck.

And if/when we were to beat them, the paycheck would dry up. They are not looking for an equal. They are looking for someone that will put up a bit of a fight, and then lay there and take it so there fans can hoot and holler and feel good about themselves.

[MeanGreenTexan]

Absolutely agree.

But let's say hypothetically we played UTSA's non-conference schedule and come out of the UH game with a win. We head back to Denton with a 6-0 record for an ESPN game against ULL. How many people do you think we have in the stands to see an UNDEFEATED UNT team for a nationally-televised game? A lot, I'd guess. Because undefeated is always more fun than a couple of good losses.

I'm starting to agree with the camp that sees big losses against National Title Contenders as momentum killers, not measuring sticks.

For sure.

Right now, the UNT coaching staff is having to really explain themselves to recruits like, "Hey, we played KSU really close through 3 quarters. I mean, we outgained them on the ground, and we dominated time of posession against a top 10 team! We need your help to get us to the next level." And, "Hey, we held the vaunted LSU defense without a sack and we were able to rack up some big plays on them!"

Those things don't sound the same as, "Hey, we're 5-0. We're winning. Come join us. Look, we're beating everyone they put in front of us. We're going the right direction! Our competition level is about to step up, but we know our system works, we just want you to join us."

Now, 3-4 weeks from now, coach Coker won't be able to say all that. He'll have to explain himself like coach McCarney and staff are doing, except he'll have to explain it coming against the likes of San Jose St. & Idaho rather than LSU & KS St.

[Monkeypox]

Absolutely agree.

But let's say hypothetically we played UTSA's non-conference schedule and come out of the UH game with a win. We head back to Denton with a 6-0 record for an ESPN game against ULL. How many people do you think we have in the stands to see an UNDEFEATED UNT team for a nationally-televised game? A lot, I'd guess. Because undefeated is always more fun than a couple of good losses.

I'm starting to agree with the camp that sees big losses against National Title Contenders as momentum killers, not measuring sticks.

Not enough to offset those paydays. I'd say attendance in the 20s, but probably not for ULL, even at 6-0. And that's what people fail to see. We don't have anyone in conference that will draw fans, so playing a craptastic nonconference along with being in a no-name conference will get you absolutely zero press. Outside of this board, I've not heard a single mention of UTSA this year. I do think it's a good way to build a program when you're not having to compete for attention locally and you can count on fans.

I see them as necessary evils, and that's unfortunate.

[CurveItAround]

It is definitely a balance you have to maintain as a program. I know the players like the opportunity to play against some of those schools that some of them hoped they would be playing for. Nobody is suggesting we go schedule Texas A&M Commerce, but LSU/Alabama/etc...? KState seems to be a reasonable compromise. Iowa, ditto.

In my mind, if the teams we want to play are not willing to schedule home/home that tells me they have NO RESPECT for our program. Why should we bow to them?

[TIgreen01]

Absolutely agree.

But let's say hypothetically we played UTSA's non-conference schedule and come out of the UH game with a win. We head back to Denton with a 6-0 record for an ESPN game against ULL. How many people do you think we have in the stands to see an UNDEFEATED UNT team for a nationally-televised game? A lot, I'd guess. Because undefeated is always more fun than a couple of good losses.

I'm starting to agree with the camp that sees big losses against National Title Contenders as momentum killers, not measuring sticks.

Welcome to the club.

Also, as a member of that club, I fully understand that we have no choice but to play these paycheck games. But stop scheduling UT, OU, LSU and Alabama. More of the next level, please....KState, Tech, Ole Miss, MissSt, Vandy, Iowa (check), etc. Let those top 5 national teams play FCS or someone else. Boise didn't build their program playing them, and neither should we.

[untjim1995]

To answer the original topic question, based on their schedule,no.

Howevever I don't want to rain on their parade because they are playing who they should play OOC right now. I will give them their props. Great job. They will have plenty of losses from their conference schedule. If you look at their future OOC schedule, it is tough for a startup program. Not sure what they are thinking here (maybe it was required in order for them to get invited to CUSA). They will likely soon experience the joy of not winning an OOC game for the next few years. Think these teams aren't licking their chops? They were probably lining up to get to play UTSA.

2013

• 08/31 - at New Mexico
  
• 09/07 - Oklahoma State
  
• 09/14 - at Arizona
  
• 09/28 - Houston
  

2014

• 08/30 - at Houston
  
• 09/06 - Arizona
  
• 09/13 - at Oklahoma State
  
• 09/27 - at Kansas State
  
• 10/04 - New Mexico
  

2015

• 09/05 - at Arizona
  
• 09/12 - Kansas State
  
• 09/19 - at Oklahoma State
  
• 10/03 - Colorado State
  

No matter what you think of UTSA and their fast rise up, no one can argue about those home games in OOC. They have two good OOC home games every year going forward, if this listing above is correct. To me, they are taking advantage of their location and situation perfectly. They may end being the laughing stock of FBS, but I actually think they will become a good program in the next decade. The San Antonio media will prop them up big time to give them support.

[GL2Greatness]

I won't think they are legit until they beat Rice and then if they beat Rice I will not think they are legit until they beat San Jose State and if they beat San Jose state I will not think they are legit until they beat Utah State and if they beat Utah State I will not think they are legit until they beat Louisiana Tech and if they beat Louisiana Tech I will not think they are legit at all if they beat McNeese and if they beat McNeese I will say they should have beat them and they are not legit until the beat Idaho and if they beat Idaho I will say thinks about the Kibbie dome and D1-AA and say UTSA is not legit unless they beat TxState and if they beat TxState I will say things about first year D1-A team, Fran and Little Debbie and say that UTSA is not legit until they win their bowl game and if UTSA wins their bowl game and goes 13-0 I will still say they are not legit then because I will claim the bowl team they beat was flat because they had to play in some bowl game against a provisional D1-A team that should not have been in a bowl game and went 13-0 against a weak schedule and only draws fans because of chicken!

[McKinneyMiner]

At some point moral victories are exhausting...

To quote Monty Python: "Sir Robin the - not - quite - so - brave - as - Sir Lancelot, who had nearly fought the Dragon of Angnor, who had nearly stood up to the vicious Chicken of Bristol, and who had personally wet himself at the Battle of Badon Hill!"

I'd rather be the team that beat Rice, beat UTSA, beat Texas St. than the one who stood up well to LSU and gave K-State all they could handle...

I get the money angle, but some OOC wins once in a while would be nice...

[forevereagle]

I won't think they are legit until they beat Rice and then if they beat Rice I will not think they are legit until they beat San Jose State and if they beat San Jose state I will not think they are legit until they beat Utah State and if they beat Utah State I will not think they are legit until they beat Louisiana Tech and if they beat Louisiana Tech I will not think they are legit at all if they beat McNeese and if they beat McNeese I will say they should have beat them and they are not legit until the beat Idaho and if they beat Idaho I will say thinks about the Kibbie dome and D1-AA and say UTSA is not legit unless they beat TxState and if they beat TxState I will say things about first year D1-A team, Fran and Little Debbie and say that UTSA is not legit until they win their bowl game and if UTSA wins their bowl game and goes 13-0 I will still say they are not legit then because I will claim the bowl team they beat was flat because they had to play in some bowl game against a provisional D1-A team that should not have been in a bowl game and went 13-0 against a weak schedule and only draws fans because of chicken!

[UNT90]

Oh I don't know about that. A loss is a loss. A win is a win.

Doesn't matter who they beat, they can sell a winning program to recruits. And that's all it takes.

So completely wrong.

With this logic, the FCS 2011 Champs would be hauling in 5 star recruits.

I'd rather play competition. What UTSA has played is anything but competition.

Can't wait to wear their a$$ out next year.

[greenminer]

Welcome to the club.

Also, as a member of that club, I fully understand that we have no choice but to play these paycheck games. But stop scheduling UT, OU, LSU and Alabama. More of the next level, please....KState, Tech, Ole Miss, MissSt, Vandy, Iowa (check), etc. Let those top 5 national teams play FCS or someone else. Boise didn't build their program playing them, and neither should we.

West Virginia is on my wish list.

[JesseMartin]

You guys all make great points, but look at some other things that happened recently. Ball State had a cushy schedule a couple of years back, and yeah, they lost in the MAC championship even though they were what, #9? But that did wonders for their program, though their coach took off pretty quickly if I remember correctly (isn't he at Stanford now?). Ohio is undefeated in its mediocre-to-crap schedule, and is pulling in quite a few votes in the polls. So on one hand, you don't have to schedule killer teams for a paycheck to build your program, but on the other hand, if you take that road you should probably be in a conference that has at least 1 or 2 teams that are competitive enough to be ranked on a fairly regular basis. Playing NIU in the MAC or Houston and Tulsa in CUSA, plus having conference championship games to further prove your value can be of utmost importance when it comes to exposure and building the program at all levels. All I'm really saying is that you don't have to schedule power teams if you can be competitive against the decent mid-major teams and play well in some conference championship games.

[MeanGreenTexan]

I won't think they are legit until they beat Rice and then if they beat Rice I will not think they are legit until they beat San Jose State and if they beat San Jose state I will not think they are legit until they beat Utah State and if they beat Utah State I will not think they are legit until they beat Louisiana Tech and if they beat Louisiana Tech I will not think they are legit at all if they beat McNeese and if they beat McNeese I will say they should have beat them and they are not legit until the beat Idaho and if they beat Idaho I will say thinks about the Kibbie dome and D1-AA and say UTSA is not legit unless they beat TxState and if they beat TxState I will say things about first year D1-A team, Fran and Little Debbie and say that UTSA is not legit until they win their bowl game and if UTSA wins their bowl game and goes 13-0 I will still say they are not legit then because I will claim the bowl team they beat was flat because they had to play in some bowl game against a provisional D1-A team that should not have been in a bowl game and went 13-0 against a weak schedule and only draws fans because of chicken!

OK. Here's another chance for you to answer 2 straightforward questions:

Moving forward, against FBS competition and a salty FCS McNeese, how many games to you expect UTSA to win?

I'm saying 0, maybe 1.

Once they finish out the year 0-fer, what will their attendance look like?

[Eagle1855]

So completely wrong.

With this logic, the FCS 2011 Champs would be hauling in 5 star recruits.

I'd rather play competition. What UTSA has played is anything but competition.

Can't wait to wear their a$$ out next year.

Except we're an FBS team. Going undefeated in FBS does in fact raise the profile of your program. We've seen it happen more than once.

[forevereagle]

Ball State had a cushy schedule a couple of years back, and yeah, they lost in the MAC championship even though they were what, #9? But that did wonders for their program, though their coach took off pretty quickly if I remember correctly (isn't he at Stanford now?).

That did wonders for their program? They went 12-2 in 2008. Since then they went 2-10 (with a loss to a Dodge coached UNT in the first game), 4-8, and 6-6 for an overall record of 12-24. All this in the MAC. Not sure I would call their program on the fast track.

Edited October 2, 2012 by forevereagle

[casual fan]

Denial: avoiding reality by denying its existence.

How many schools from small conferences made it to the big leagues by playing the hardest teams they could schedule?

Boise is the poster child for how to get there nationally.

From 1999- 2007 how many top 25 teams did they play (not counting bowls)? 4 two were conference games.

When they beat Oklahoma in the Fiesta bowl, that was the first ranked team they had played that year.

They went 13-0 and they were the only undefeated team.

They were ranked 5th & got the only vote for first place other than Florida - the national champions.

They got there by winning. They didn't get there by having season after season wrecked by body bag fiascos.

There are dozens of small conference teams that continually play money games year after year.

They are stuck on a treadmill to nowhere.

We need to build a winning tradition.