Random Idea in regards to changing the culture...

[UNTstormchaser]

I've seen a lot of discussion on here since I signed up about changing the culture here at UNT in regards to sports, especially football. And, I think we all agree that there are 3 different major groups whose mindsets need to be changed in order to do that: students, alumni, and unaffiliated community.

In regards to students, it's already happening. Having Mac talk to every incoming freshman at each orientation every year has done wonders in helping change the mindset of the students here at UNT, and I feel that it's definitely heading in the right direction. With alumni, from what I've gathered here is that the people who support already are going to continue to do so, and it's just a matter of the school and the involved alumni continuing to reach out and establish a connection with other alumni.

And, at least in my opinion, the community is the hardest to reach about this. Fielding a winning team that will get people excited, the conference change, opening Apogee, etc., are all things that have helped or will soon help, but there is still a disconnect there.

Earlier today I was thinking about how to possibly get all 3 groups excited at once, and what would do that. Then, I realized that one of the problems is a lack of a major tradition, and the lack of tradition and history in general. I certainly don't mean that we do not have a great history, because we do, but we may as well have none at all because no one seems to have any clue about the tradition and history of the school and athletic programs. No one knows why we have 2 names for sure, no one can even agree on what the "real" name is.

So I decided that we should start establishing a tradition to look forward to every year (though we also need to make our history a bit more well known somehow as well, but that's not where my idea lies). We need something that can be used as an attendance booster in the middle of every season, in the student section and the community section, and probably the alumni section as well.

My idea is a "Black Out" game. Black uniforms (not ridiculous ones like Oregon or anything, same style but black instead of green), everyone in the stands wear's black, have a special offer for the wing section where you can get half price tickets if you show up wearing black, etc. There is so much that we can do with this. Obvioiusly, we could do a green or white out game instead, but I think black out works best because it's gimicky and trendy enough to get your average student excited, and it's something different and unique to look forward to every year.

Anyone like the idea? Anyone have a better idea? Anyone have any clue on how we could get something like this started? I think it's really important to establish some kind of tradition that will get people excited every year. Besides, how intimidating would Apogee look 100% sold out with a sea of black in the stands?

[Green P1]

You should research our "history" with blackout games...

[Quoner]

You should research our "history" with blackout games...

We were actually one of the first schools in Texas to stop having them.

Oh, you meant the Dickey thing.

[UNTstormchaser]

How about instead of handing out minuses, someone can tell me what about this is a bad idea? How bad could our history with blackout games be where the average person in attendance would be turned off by the idea? Trust me as a student, .01% of the student body know anything worthwhile about the school's traditions and such, and we need to establish something. If black out games aren't that something, then fine, but instead of minusing my post and then leaving, it would be beneficial to hear any cons that you may have towards the idea, and if you have any better ones.

The way I see it, there is zero wrong with it. It's a gimmick that you can sell to the students and to the public, especially with some kind of ticket deal for the wing section. If the students are excited and the community is excited, then the alumni will be excited. Of course, the team will be excited. I don't see anything wrong with the idea, at least in it's primitive stages.

[GL2Greatness]

How about instead of handing out minuses, someone can tell me what about this is a bad idea? How bad could our history with blackout games be where the average person in attendance would be turned off by the idea? Trust me as a student, .01% of the student body know anything worthwhile about the school's traditions and such, and we need to establish something. If black out games aren't that something, then fine, but instead of minusing my post and then leaving, it would be beneficial to hear any cons that you may have towards the idea, and if you have any better ones.

The way I see it, there is zero wrong with it. It's a gimmick that you can sell to the students and to the public, especially with some kind of ticket deal for the wing section. If the students are excited and the community is excited, then the alumni will be excited. Of course, the team will be excited. I don't see anything wrong with the idea, at least in it's primitive stages.

when the great Darrell Dickey (the last coach to lead north Texas to a winning season and the only coach to lead north Texas to victory in an NCAA sanctioned bowl game) was fired he ordered some really crappy walmart quality black jerseys with only numbers (probably ironed) on them and the team came out for workouts for the final home game wearing the normal uniforms and then changed into the black ones right before coming out onto the field and they still lost as well...

[shaft]

I can tell you what's wrong with a color game.

1. It's not a unique idea that's going to generate excitement among the three fan bases.

2. It's not our color.

3. School pride, wearing green on Fridays and to the games is on an uptick and a color game could set that back.

4. It took you 5 paragraphs to come up with the same idea as a JV cheerleader

[eulessismore]

We were actually one of the first schools in Texas to stop having them.

Oh, you meant the Dickey thing.

+1 for covering so much ground in 2 short sentences. But, most people in school now wouldn't get it.

[UNTstormchaser]

I can tell you what's wrong with a color game.

1. It's not a unique idea that's going to generate excitement among the three fan bases.

2. It's not our color.

3. School pride, wearing green on Fridays and to the games is on an uptick and a color game could set that back.

4. It took you 5 paragraphs to come up with the same idea as a JV cheerleader

1. It isn't unique, no question, but trust me when I say that students are stupid enough to get excited over it, as is the community when we have the promotion for it.

2. Nor is it the color for any other school that has worn black uni's on a random occasion, Tennessee is one that comes to mind, as is Oregon, Alabama, Virginia Tech, Florida, Mississippi State...

3. Having a color game would not effect school pride, wearing green on Friday's, nor wearing green to any other game. There is no logical path that connects the two things.

4. You're damn right I did. Where's your idea?

[GL2Greatness]

what about doing The Haka before the game.....could help with Euless Trinity player recruiting

[eulessismore]

what about doing The Haka before the game.....could help with Euless Trinity player recruiting

Actually that Haka and Euless Trinity recruiting sound like great ideas, but the whole idea turns out to be more complicated than that. That said, Trinity head coach Steve Lineweaver is one of the football world's great guys, and one who loves to see his guys go on to succeed in college. Still, the culture in Euless favors the running game, and Lineweaver will be the first to tell anyone that he'd love to have a more balanced offense, but can't abandon what has brought so much success.

There are more reasons than I can get into here as to why schools out west, BYU in particular, have done well recruiting at Trinity, but one of our assistants, Justin Gaines, has had some success there, and UNT will pick up one or two good guys from Trinity from time to time. I believe Darius Terrell may be one.

Still, we do need "new traditions" (two words that seem strange together). I'm trying to think of something that could entail creative use of the new pedestrian bridge, maybe the Green Brigade leading the student body on some kind of spirit walk across there that could be cool but not bring I35 traffic to an even greater standstill than it already is at times. Something.

Edited September 29, 2012 by eulessismore

[817Fan]

I think the pre-game atmosphere would be better if the band was more directly involved. The GB marches through the parking lot 2 hours before kick-off but they don't play anything. Sure the drums are beating, but play something. It would be great if the drum line warmed up in the Victory parking lot as opposed to next to the Super Pit. USC cadence is attended by swarms of people prior to their home games. -This is not a complaint, I just think it would add to a pre-game experience. Finally, if it's not logistically possible for the GB to be a bigger part of the parking lot pre-game, how about another student drum line or band? (steel drums, one of the lab bands, etc.)

Edited September 29, 2012 by 817Fan

[adman]

1. It isn't unique, no question, but trust me when I say that students are stupid enough to get excited over it, as is the community when we have the promotion for it.

"The customer isn't a moron, she's your wife."

- David Ogilvy

[CurveItAround]

Here is an idea from Charlie on a tradition that I think we can all get behind:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsIKexb5DM8

Edited September 29, 2012 by CurveItAround

[Monkeypox]

1. It isn't unique, no question, but trust me when I say that students are stupid enough to get excited over it, as is the community when we have the promotion for it. Yeah, I can hear them now. "I used to stay away from North Texas football, but now that I can wear a black T-shirt to one game a year, I'm all about it!" or "It's not decades long apathy and a losing tradition that steered me away. It's that I don't like to wear green."

2. Nor is it the color for any other school that has worn black uni's on a random occasion, Tennessee is one that comes to mind, as is Oregon, Alabama, Virginia Tech, Florida, Mississippi State...Wait, you mean all those big successful programs in BCS conferences? Were they all floundering to fill their stadiums before they had blackout games? Is that what made them what they are today.

3. Having a color game would not effect school pride, wearing green on Friday's, nor wearing green to any other game. There is no logical path that connects the two things. I agree. Having a color game will not affect school pride. That's why it's a pointless exercise.

4. You're damn right I did. Where's your idea? Not answering for him but my idea is to win at football. People aren't going to come enthusiastically to see us get beat by Troy just because you change the color for one game a year.

In the end, what you're suggesting doesn't do anything to change the culture. It's a single game promotion that's not going to change anyone's opinion. Those sorts of things work once you already have a product. If you're just looking to fill the stadium, you do what UTSA did and give tickets away with chicken, or chicken away with tickets, or something where people get free sh*t because the economy sucks and students will do anything for free sh*t.

Edited September 29, 2012 by Monkeypox

[trussbussdad]

my son visited ok state...they have pads hanging over the wall by the opponents sideline and bring in wooden paddles to beat on it with a td or first down...makes a hell of a noise

[CMJ]

I think winning more games than we lose would change the culture more than anything mentioned so far. Win more, and the rest falls into place.

[Proud North Texan]

What we need to do to change the culture is not that difficult for our university since we have the potential more than any other school in the belt or even in C-USA.

We need to talk in classes about the Mean Green and we need to promote as much as we can on campus. (professors, departments, and NT daily) Make the sports big deal on campus.

We must talk positive about the Mean Green to the new students and to guests who come visit our university between time to time.

Put in all buildings something positive about the Mean Green (posters, schedules, and trophies history)

Hire people to talk on campus about the sports events and how important it is, let them get into classes and talk about it, do some surveys about the mean green sports and let students get extra points for it.

instead of giveaways t shirts and stuff, why don't we just giveaways bumper stickers for the mean green so everybody can see the pride on cars everywhere in the streets

encourage student's to come to games by allowing the beer in Apogee and the super pit. increase the prizes such as the free tuitions and free cars and etc.. during the game.

Anyone has a bumper sticker on his/her car would get a parking permit discount, even if it's just 5%. it is really a big deal when everyone in the DFW area see a lot of cars that has North Texas signs on it.

Go to retal stors around the campus and give them free North Texas flags and thing for the Mean Green to fill up the stores.

Put more Mean Green flags on campus.

Bring a life mascot (EAGLE) to the university and let students see it in the games and on campus. let students touch it, take pictures with it, talk about it.

Green every thing out in the school.

Remember that the sky is our limit!! as we all decided last year with the UNT president!!

Go Mean Green

[Mad Hatter]

I think the idea of a black out (or white out) game would be great, if it coincided with a free t-shirt give away. People will go into the game to get a free t-shirt, and they'll stick around for a while to see the results of everyone wearing them.

Having a winning problem fixes most attendance problems, but it's nice to have something different to look forward to.

I have always thought that our drum line should be heavily involved in the tailgating atmosphere.

2 Cents - Delivered.

[Mean Green 93-98]

I think winning more games than we lose would change the culture more than anything mentioned so far. Win more, and the rest falls into place.

I think it's been established that it's going to take more than that. We won a whole lot during the middle of the Dickey years (the ends not so much), but I don't know that the culture was appreciably better than it is now. It's going to take something else to get over the hump. Probably winning multiple games over legitimately good opponents. But obviously winning--winning at all--is better for the culture than losing.

[SilverEagle]

I think it's been established that it's going to take more than that. We won a whole lot during the middle of the Dickey years (the ends not so much), but I don't know that the culture was appreciably better than it is now. It's going to take something else to get over the hump. Probably winning multiple games over legitimately good opponents. But obviously winning--winning at all--is better for the culture than losing.

Winning noticeable games in the same season gets everyone's attention and sets the stage for meaningful culture change. But there needs to be a plan in place to jump on this opportunity and then keep it going. Noticeable and multiple wins over known programs will get people coming to the games, but they need a "hook" to keep them coming back. And winning, in and of itself, will not do it. People can come to our games today and see what looks like a random gathering of people who like to tailgate(with the usual cooking and drinking) and they mostly wear green. But it doesn't have the atmosphere that real programs have. It doesn't feel like all the participants are really connected.

I've told this story many times in the past, but here it goes again. In the late fall of 1990 I was asked to participate in a focus group to discuss the future of North Texas football. The group was led by Dr. Peter Lane. The main point that I made to Dr. Lane (and the group) regarding North Texas football was this. I said that football games at North Texas feel like they are contracted events. I said that a football team shows up wearing a North Texas uniform, a band shows up wearing the school colors, and cheer-leading staff show up wearing the appropriate uniform and uniform color. BUT IT DOESN'T FEEL LIKE ANY OF THOSE GROUPS ARE CONNECTED TO ONE ANOTHER. The football team plays their game, the band plays the prerequisite fight song, alma mater, and as a bonus they play "fly like an Eagle", and then they spend the rest of the game amusing themselves with their music selections that don't really get the crowd into the game. The cheerleaders go to their appropriate spot and do the prerequisite gymnastics and cheers (generic in nature), and none of the aforementioned groups seem to really be connected to one another or to any of the crowd (students or alumni) in a unified way. And when the game is over they all go their separate ways.

And I added that North Texas is a school with no noticeable spirit traditions. I asked anyone in the group if they knew of a North Texas yell. I gave as an example a yell that TCU painted on it's field house that could be seen from the stands...

Riff Ram:

Riff, Ram, Bah Zoo

Lickety, Lickety, Zoo, Zoo

Who, Wah, Wah, Who

Give 'em Hell, TCU

No one seemed to know of anything similar that North Texas has ever had. I said that the TCU yell was stupid, but that it was THEIR STUPID YELL AND THEY HELD ONTO IT BECAUSE OF..............TRADITION. Something that North Texas was totally lacking in.

Now, since I offered this opinion in 1990, about the only thing that has significantly changed is tailgating and a new stadium has been built......PLUS, I have never been asked back to participate in any future focus groups. Gee, what a surprise.

Edited September 29, 2012 by SilverEagle

[UNTflyer]

StormChaser,

I appreciate your passion and enthusiasm. We need more of that.

I think the response you are getting to your idea is because of the bad taste left by Darrell Dickey's Black Saturday debacle. It was a big, dirty middle finger at the administration, the AD, and the fans.

Also, we are trying to build tradition and spirit by encouraging the wearing of green. The constant re-branding of our school is an annoyance, and now we have yet another shade of green associated with our university. As someone who has only been a part of this university since 2005, I can tell you that there has been tremendous progress in a short amount of time. Progress takes time, especially after a long period, decades, of apathy toward athletics.

We just need to win, consistently, and the rest will take care of itself.

[UNTstormchaser]

when the great Darrell Dickey (the last coach to lead north Texas to a winning season and the only coach to lead north Texas to victory in an NCAA sanctioned bowl game) was fired he ordered some really crappy walmart quality black jerseys with only numbers (probably ironed) on them and the team came out for workouts for the final home game wearing the normal uniforms and then changed into the black ones right before coming out onto the field and they still lost as well...

Crappy idea by Dickey, but that shouldn't poison our view of having a legitimately organized event similar to that.

I think the pre-game atmosphere would be better if the band was more directly involved. The GB marches through the parking lot 2 hours before kick-off but they don't play anything. Sure the drums are beating, but play something. It would be great if the drum line warmed up in the Victory parking lot as opposed to next to the Super Pit. USC cadence is attended by swarms of people prior to their home games. -This is not a complaint, I just think it would add to a pre-game experience. Finally, if it's not logistically possible for the GB to be a bigger part of the parking lot pre-game, how about another student drum line or band? (steel drums, one of the lab bands, etc.)

I definitely agree.

In the end, what you're suggesting doesn't do anything to change the culture. It's a single game promotion that's not going to change anyone's opinion. Those sorts of things work once you already have a product. If you're just looking to fill the stadium, you do what UTSA did and give tickets away with chicken, or chicken away with tickets, or something where people get free sh*t because the economy sucks and students will do anything for free sh*t.

You're over-simplifying it my friend. Obviously, one random game promotion doesn't change the culture, no. I didn't say it would. Establish it as a tradition, give everyone something unique to look forward to every year, get the community involved with promotions from day one, and eventually, it's a part of the culture. Hypothetically, let's say it's always the 3rd home game of the year, starting next season in 2013. By 2020, it's something we're all used to and something everyone knows about and looks forward to. The community knows about it and the promotions that come with it. The students get excited to have another excuse to conform to what everyone around them does. Looking even further ahead, it's an established tradition that no one would want to do away with.

All I'm saying about the idea is that it's marketable, gimmicky and dumb enough to get students excited (it really doesn't take much my friend, and if you throw in the chance for free shit, they will arrive in big numbers), and it doesn't negatively effect anything at all.

my son visited ok state...they have pads hanging over the wall by the opponents sideline and bring in wooden paddles to beat on it with a td or first down...makes a hell of a noise

That is awesome.

I think winning more games than we lose would change the culture more than anything mentioned so far. Win more, and the rest falls into place.

No crap, but instead of sitting around waiting for the wins to come, let's start getting people excited ahead of time. Besides, I think we can all agree that more people=louder stadium=bigger advantage at home=more wins, or at least a better chance at wins.

[UNTstormchaser]

What we need to do to change the culture is not that difficult for our university since we have the potential more than any other school in the belt or even in C-USA.

We need to talk in classes about the Mean Green and we need to promote as much as we can on campus. (professors, departments, and NT daily) Make the sports big deal on campus.

We must talk positive about the Mean Green to the new students and to guests who come visit our university between time to time.

Put in all buildings something positive about the Mean Green (posters, schedules, and trophies history)

Hire people to talk on campus about the sports events and how important it is, let them get into classes and talk about it, do some surveys about the mean green sports and let students get extra points for it.

instead of giveaways t shirts and stuff, why don't we just giveaways bumper stickers for the mean green so everybody can see the pride on cars everywhere in the streets

encourage student's to come to games by allowing the beer in Apogee and the super pit. increase the prizes such as the free tuitions and free cars and etc.. during the game.

Anyone has a bumper sticker on his/her car would get a parking permit discount, even if it's just 5%. it is really a big deal when everyone in the DFW area see a lot of cars that has North Texas signs on it.

Go to retal stors around the campus and give them free North Texas flags and thing for the Mean Green to fill up the stores.

Put more Mean Green flags on campus.

Bring a life mascot (EAGLE) to the university and let students see it in the games and on campus. let students touch it, take pictures with it, talk about it.

Green every thing out in the school.

Remember that the sky is our limit!! as we all decided last year with the UNT president!!

Go Mean Green

I love all of it. Thank you for actually putting in the time and effort to come up with and post ideas.

I think the idea of a black out (or white out) game would be great, if it coincided with a free t-shirt give away. People will go into the game to get a free t-shirt, and they'll stick around for a while to see the results of everyone wearing them.

Having a winning problem fixes most attendance problems, but it's nice to have something different to look forward to.

I have always thought that our drum line should be heavily involved in the tailgating atmosphere.

2 Cents - Delivered.

I absolutely agree. Put a free UNT "Black Out" shirt on every student seat or something, or hell, put them on every seat. That would absolutely be beneficial in this idea.

StormChaser,

I appreciate your passion and enthusiasm. We need more of that.

I think the response you are getting to your idea is because of the bad taste left by Darrell Dickey's Black Saturday debacle. It was a big, dirty middle finger at the administration, the AD, and the fans.

Also, we are trying to build tradition and spirit by encouraging the wearing of green. The constant re-branding of our school is an annoyance, and now we have yet another shade of green associated with our university. As someone who has only been a part of this university since 2005, I can tell you that there has been tremendous progress in a short amount of time. Progress takes time, especially after a long period, decades, of apathy toward athletics.

We just need to win, consistently, and the rest will take care of itself.

I totally agree with the constant changing of the color and such here. It's ridiculous and annoying to all of us. But having a black out game doesn't effect that at all. Stick with whatever green it is now, keep that for good. Put that color green on the black out shirts' text. Put it on the uniforms as the trim or the number/name colors.

Progress definitely takes a loooong time, but that isn't a good reason to not try to expedite the process. If everyone sat around and just waited for progress to happen naturally and slowly, progress would not happen at all.

It's just an idea folks. I still think it would work, in fact I'm really confident that it would. Students love this kind of crap. Give them free shirts or something too. The community will show up if we give them discounts on tickets, there is no questioning that. And if the students are showing up, and the community is showing up, I think the alumni will be happy.

[DJstars21]

Yep, the foundation is built. Just win.

I remember a while back when TCU went undefeated and got snubbed on that BCS bowl, they were on fox with the stadium full of students waiting on the decision as to whether or not they would go...

They got snubbed, but I, as a casual fan, started keeping up with their program because of that single Fox special...

I remember thinking, wow they fought hard for this recognition and its my duty as a metroplex sports fan to support them, weird I guess, but true...

If NT won enough games to put us into contention for something like that, there is zero doubt in my mind that the NT student body would fill up Apogee for a similar Fox special that would earn the respect of the metroplex...

Just gotta do something worth respecting... Although its tough to stand out in Dallas, once you start winning big, I doubt you will get more support from any other city in the country... This is title town.

[DJstars21]

@stormchaser,

Its a good idea, but there is no tradition like winning. The other stuff supplements the core tradition of winning... Its like throwing shiny wheels on a Toyota to compete with Mercedes Benz, its cool, but everyone knows its smoke and mirrors and the Toyota is still a Toyota...

Say we dropped the LSU game this season, beat Kstate/Houston, and won out in the belt? DFW loves winners more than it loves teams...