Pitt Bull News Yet Another Fatal Family Pit Bull Attack

[MeanGreenTexan]

OK, lets go with the Huffington Post number. 2,234 as of March 24, 2013. Ninety Eight days after Newtown, that's an average of 22.79 people per day. The Honest question for Grown Folk: Was and still is; Do you care more about banning Pit Bulls, which is never going to happen, or implementing a universal background check for all guns, including those at Gun Shows?

You'd be surprised how much more momentum this has than the gun ban. Several large cities have already banned this particular breed. It's already happening.

[forevereagle]

The Honest question for Grown Folk: Was and still is; Do you care more about banning Pit Bulls, which is never going to happen, or implementing a universal background check for all guns, including those at Gun Shows?

Honest question: Do you think that a universal background check is going to prevent shootings like Sandy Hook?

[LongJim]

I care more about the government doing what it's supposed to do, and staying the heck out of my life.

[KRAM1]

I care more about the government doing what it's supposed to do, and staying the heck out of my life.

Now you are talking!

[GreenBat]

I care more about the government doing what it's supposed to do, and staying the heck out of my life.

And what is it you think the government is supposed to do? Edited April 2, 2013 by GreenBat

[GreenBat]

Honest question: Do you think that a universal background check is going to prevent shootings like Sandy Hook?

It would not have prevented Sandy Hook because the shooter stole the guns from his mother, who he murdered. But it could have prevented the Movie theater shooting in Aurora, That kid would not have passed a universal background check.

[forevereagle]

It would not have prevented Sandy Hook because the shooter stole the guns from his mother, who he murdered. But it could have prevented the Movie theater shooting in Aurora, That kid would not have passed a universal background check.

Ok, so if he would not have passed the background check, would he have sought another way to get a hold of the guns he wanted to commit the crime he had planned?

[LongJim]

And what is it you think the government is supposed to do?

As far as the federal government goes, which is what I was referring to--nothing not provided for in the Constitution. Beyond that, the 10th amendment pretty much spells out my position on what government is "supposed to do", which to me, is as little as possible. Some would say they do a great job already--except in areas in which they have no business operating, which they seem to be really concerned with.

Edited April 2, 2013 by LongJim

[GreenBat]

As far as the federal government goes, which is what I was referring to--nothing not provided for in the Constitution. Beyond that, the 10th amendment pretty much spells out my position on what government is "supposed to do", which to me, is as little as possible. Some would say they do a great job already--except in areas in which they have no business operating, which they seem to be really concerned with.

Tenth Amendment - Reserved Powers

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

Just want to make sure this is what we are talking about.

[adman]

There already is a universal background check. Has been for years. Buy any gun from any licensed firearms dealer and all your info goes to the FBI and they instantly say yes or no to your purchase. This includes dealers at gun shows.

[FirefightnRick]

There already is a universal background check. Has been for years. Buy any gun from any licensed firearms dealer and all your info goes to the FBI and they instantly say yes or no to your purchase. This includes dealers at gun shows.

Thank you for pointing this out to those who may not have purchased a gun in some time.

Rick

[GreenBat]

There already is a universal background check. Has been for years. Buy any gun from any licensed firearms dealer and all your info goes to the FBI and they instantly say yes or no to your purchase. This includes dealers at gun shows.

Universal means the same in every state. And their is not a background check between private sellers at gun shows. I can go to a gun show and purchase a gun without a background check.

[adman]

Universal means the same in every state. And their is not a background check between private sellers at gun shows. I can go to a gun show and purchase a gun without a background check.

It is universal because it is a FEDERAL background check. Every state regardless of their state level gun laws has to run the FBI background check - you can thank the Brady Bill for starting that.

The whole gun show loophole fallacy is ridiculous. Private selling is private selling. As a citizen anything you own - a car, hunting knife, can opener, gold fish - you can sell because it is your PERSONAL PROPERTY.

I can place an ad in the classifieds saying I have a Smith & Wesson M&P 9mm for sale. The price. And my address. You can come buy it. There will be no background check because it is my personal property and I am not a gun dealer.

On the same level - I can forgo the ad, walk into a gun show with my Smith & Wesson M&P 9mm and offer it for sale to anyone who wants to buy it. Again, PERSONAL PROPERTY, that I am selling. (It is the: "Fish where the fish are.") mentality. But it isn't the gun shows offering up NO BACKGROUND CHECK GUNS - THIS WEEKEND AT WILL ROGERS!

A dealer at a gun show CANNOT do this with stock from his store. That is illegal. However, he can sell you a weapon from his personal collection as a private seller. Now some might fear: OMG he could just say he has hundreds or thousands of "personal" guns and sell them without a background check. And you're right he could. And then he'd go to jail for a very long time because the ATF doesn't like bullshit. At all.

As a matter of fact, and I believe it was in this area - some guy legally purchased, through a licensed firearms dealer, lots of guns, 100's perhaps, and then began selling them "privately." But that is BS and the ATF caught on pretty quickly and that guy went bye-bye.

People are dying for lots of somewhat complicated, often intertwined reasons but some imaginary gun show loophole has nothing to do with it. That's just a rally cry for politicians that have no desire to tackle the real issues.

[FirefightnRick]

"Pit Bull Likely Ate Owner's Hands"

http://m.chron.com/news/article/Pit-bull-likely-ate-owner-s-hands-4980338.php?cmpid=hpts

WILTON -- Two days after a dog bit off a woman's hand and her other arm, sources said her hands were likely eaten. And police said they had been to her home in the past for problems with the same dog.

Rick

Edited December 6, 2013 by FirefightnRick

[FirefightnRick]

"Owners sought after dogs maul Fort Worth man, 45"

http://www.star-telegram.com/2013/12/03/5386839/two-pit-bulls-maul-man-in-fort.html

The man and his two daughters had gone in search of Angelica and found her under attack by three pit bull mixes at about 12:15 a.m., police said. A 911 caller told police that a dog was killing a man outside, police said.

Rick

[FirefightnRick]

"Dog Attacks Girl In Diamond Hil Area Of North Fort Worth"

http://www.star-telegram.com/2013/12/10/5408659/dog-attacks-girl-in-diamond-hill.html?rh=1

According to the initial police report, a 911 caller said a dog attacked a child who had several injuries. The caller said a pit bull was at the location.

Rick

[JesseMartin]

A few things:

1) Glad the private sale vs. arms dealer clarification was made because I was wondering if everyone was delusional. Adman is correct.

2) The only thing I wonder about pit bulls is whether the press pushes those attacks more often than others. Really, I would think the capacity for violence and death is the biggest issue, in terms of body chemistry and jaw strength combine for an increased level of danger. I agree with a couple of you about grandma's dog biting the kid not being newsworthy as well as the problem with owners creating a poor environment, but it must be reasonably established that a) there is a sliding scale of how likely it is that a dog will bite and b ) there is another scale regarding the damage and injury likely to occur from that bite. As was already pointed out, dogs are not human beings and the aggressive nature combined with the capacity for injury or death are scientifically identifiable and can be related to a numeric value, so perhaps that should be the appropriate step taken in terms of dog ownership and freedom of licenses.

3) As a personal aside, I refer to a conversation with one of the few people with whom I correspond from where I grew up, wherein he agreed with me that "Most people would think it's funny that you would leave the suburbs of Philly and move to Texas to get away from the rednecks." Our state representative lived down the road from us and my father was very vocally against him for being a "liberal turncoat" and many other things that he couldn't possibly understand when re-stating what he was told to say by his fellow churchgoers. So, when he was out running, they would have their dogs chase him down the road. I don't know what breed they were, because I rarely did anything with him. There was also a couple that lived in the house next door to us who had a dog that they would let run free, and he once came into our yard and knocked my sister over. She was a toddler and I was about 10, and I waved a stick at it. The owner then ran into our yard and told me that if I ever hit his dog with a stick he would break my arm. Then, when we moved to a slightly less rural area, it was around the time that I had begun jogging and random people would let their dogs chase me, though they usually turned around once they got to the road. One time, I was a couple of blocks from my high school and some jackass started cheering on his dog to keep going after me, and as soon as I realized it was about to overtake me and bite me, I turned around and lunged at it with my fist while screaming at it. It backed off and the owner started running toward me yelling at me for trying to hit his dog, so I chased him and told him I would do to him what he tried to have his dog do to me. He then ran inside his house with his dog while I stood there wondering why he and his dog were suddenly no match for me.

The last part, aside from being sort of funny and anecdotal, does help point out that there are some really shitty people out there who use their dogs either for intimidation or amusement when it comes to other people in their vicinity. That does beg the question, though...if they're all golden retrievers or some other breed rarely seen as a threat, but are trained by assholes, how do you deal with that? I think the real answer is to handle most on a case-by-case basis as is the standard, but as I pointed out in #2, if there can be an obvious scientific standard by which you can presume a danger then it should certainly be considered as valid, regardless of how you feel about that sweet little puppy you adopted.

Edited December 14, 2013 by JesseMartin

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/cateyhill/2012/05/30/11-riskiest-dog-breeds-for-homeowners-and-renters/

[FirefightnRick]

A few things:

1) Glad the private sale vs. arms dealer clarification was made because I was wondering if everyone was delusional. Adman is correct.

2) The only thing I wonder about pit bulls is whether the press pushes those attacks more often than others. Really, I would think the capacity for violence and death is the biggest issue, in terms of body chemistry and jaw strength combine for an increased level of danger. I agree with a couple of you about grandma's dog biting the kid not being newsworthy as well as the problem with owners creating a poor environment, but it must be reasonably established that a) there is a sliding scale of how likely it is that a dog will bite and b ) there is another scale regarding the damage and injury likely to occur from that bite. As was already pointed out, dogs are not human beings and the aggressive nature combined with the capacity for injury or death are scientifically identifiable and can be related to a numeric value, so perhaps that should be the appropriate step taken in terms of dog ownership and freedom of licenses.

3) As a personal aside, I refer to a conversation with one of the few people with whom I correspond from where I grew up, wherein he agreed with me that "Most people would think it's funny that you would leave the suburbs of Philly and move to Texas to get away from the rednecks." Our state representative lived down the road from us and my father was very vocally against him for being a "liberal turncoat" and many other things that he couldn't possibly understand when re-stating what he was told to say by his fellow churchgoers. So, when he was out running, they would have their dogs chase him down the road. I don't know what breed they were, because I rarely did anything with him. There was also a couple that lived in the house next door to us who had a dog that they would let run free, and he once came into our yard and knocked my sister over. She was a toddler and I was about 10, and I waved a stick at it. The owner then ran into our yard and told me that if I ever hit his dog with a stick he would break my arm. Then, when we moved to a slightly less rural area, it was around the time that I had begun jogging and random people would let their dogs chase me, though they usually turned around once they got to the road. One time, I was a couple of blocks from my high school and some jackass started cheering on his dog to keep going after me, and as soon as I realized it was about to overtake me and bite me, I turned around and lunged at it with my fist while screaming at it. It backed off and the owner started running toward me yelling at me for trying to hit his dog, so I chased him and told him I would do to him what he tried to have his dog do to me. He then ran inside his house with his dog while I stood there wondering why he and his dog were suddenly no match for me.

The last part, aside from being sort of funny and anecdotal, does help point out that there are some really shitty people out there who use their dogs either for intimidation or amusement when it comes to other people in their vicinity. That does beg the question, though...if they're all golden retrievers or some other breed rarely seen as a threat, but are trained by assholes, how do you deal with that? I think the real answer is to handle most on a case-by-case basis as is the standard, but as I pointed out in #2, if there can be an obvious scientific standard by which you can presume a danger then it should certainly be considered as valid, regardless of how you feel about that sweet little puppy you adopted.

Know that my experiences with the Pit breed comes from 18 years worth of dealing with the actual carnage that breed has left behind, against everyone from the elderly to children, who were attacked and mauled near to death because someone accidentally allowed their pits out, to someone intentionally sending their pits out, to simply having the lovable, "he'd never hurt a flea" family pit just waking up one day and deciding they'd take little Jodie's face off.

There's more than ample proof that increases with each mauling as to why over 200 cities and towns nation wide have outright banned the breed and any of it's kind or mix.

Rick

[Green Mean]

Chicago Tribune recently did an article on Pit Bulls.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-12-05/news/ct-pit-bull-abandonment-met-20131205_1_pit-bulls-reported-dog-bites-floods-shelters

[FirefightnRick]

Chicago Tribune recently did an article on Pit Bulls.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-12-05/news/ct-pit-bull-abandonment-met-20131205_1_pit-bulls-reported-dog-bites-floods-shelters

Interesting. I give those who are trying to do good by one of God's creatures credit. But the cities that provide services such as Police and EMS have a bottom line of cost for those services and are forced to act accordingly. I wished the punishments for the owners were more sever, but often times their only fault is ignorance for turning their back on a dog that had never showed previous aggression to anyone, and left it alone with a 2 year old child. How do you put Grandma in jail for trying to give little Becky a bath and leaving for only a moment to go get a towel out of the laundry room only to return and find the two family Pit's are de-gloving the childs face after grabbing her and yanking her completely out of the bathtub onto the floor?

Thanks for the link.

Rick

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

-We agree on something... seen too many of these stories where a pit-bull that seems harmless suddenly does something terrible... Still remember a vacation a few years and the on news in all three of towns we spent the night in involved a pit bull that had chewed someone up ... I think one elderly person died and another involved the owner who thought he was wonderful and the other one tore into some kids.... . They may have a place as a junk-yard dog but they are not to be totally trusted as a pet, any of them...

[oldguystudent]

So out of curiosity, if I want to go to a retail gun dealer and purchase a gun, what happens? Is there a difference between rifles and handguns? Shotguns? And what are "black powder only" guns I saw in Bass Pro Shops? Are those a different thing too?

Clearly, I never have, and probably never will, owned a gun. I know very little about them. So I ask out of pure curiosity, and have no problem whatsoever with private ownership of weapons. Go buy an anti-tank shoulder mounted rocket propelled grenade launcher for all I care.

And what about bows and cross bows? And why is my big ass fixed blade knife illegal in Texas when all kinds of firearms aren't?

Edit: Apologies if this is in the wrong thread. I wrote this based on Adman's post on gun shows.

Edited December 18, 2013 by oldguystudent

[Army of Dad]

So out of curiosity, if I want to go to a retail gun dealer and purchase a gun, what happens? Is there a difference between rifles and handguns? Shotguns? And what are "black powder only" guns I saw in Bass Pro Shops? Are those a different thing too?

Clearly, I never have, and probably never will, owned a gun. I know very little about them. So I ask out of pure curiosity, and have no problem whatsoever with private ownership of weapons. Go buy an anti-tank shoulder mounted rocket propelled grenade launcher for all I care.

And what about bows and cross bows? And why is my big ass fixed blade knife illegal in Texas when all kinds of firearms aren't?

Edit: Apologies if this is in the wrong thread. I wrote this based on Adman's post on gun shows.

This would be easier to cover over a beer.

[oldguystudent]

This would be easier to cover over a beer.

Interesting. I'm known to enjoy the occasional sip of beer.