Changing the culture at UNT

Proud North Texan · September 17, 2012

Be positive and proud of your school and team, talk it up, and promote as much as you could.

Christopher Walker · September 18, 2012

The problem is, UNT is located in DFW. DFW fans, for the most part, are fair-weather fans. Look at the Rangers of late VS the Rangers of the early-to-mid 2000's. Look at the Stars of today VS the Stars of the late 90's-early 2000's. DFW loves a winner and will not show up for a loser. The only team around here that has a huge enough fan base to fill up their stadium when they're losing is the Cowboys.

Apparently, that attitude is alive and kicking in Denton as well.

Okay, so I've had this running theory for years.

What makes those teams with the most consistent attendance (the biggest of the big) maintain such? I think its geography and anthropology, and more specifically those two in terms of isolation.

Alabama, Penn St, Ohio, St, Michigan, Tennessee, LSU, Florida, Auburn, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Texas A&M, Notre Dame, Wisconsin, Clemson, SoCarolina, Michigan St, Florida St, Iowa, Arkansas, Virginia Tech, Kentucky; each of these big name schools do not have any major cities within 30-45 minutes that provide any contrasting anthropological significance, any significant cultural draw, beyond a few pro teams. Yes, I realize there are major cities nearby, but those are typically state capitals or major cities who also attribute their draw to the universities nearby, not the other way around. Additionally, they are not near any other major university within that distance as well. Generally speaking, their university athletics programs are the major attraction for miles around. Equally those universities have instilled a culture from the earliest of undergrad years (freshman and sophomores not having cars to escape away for example) that further establishes this cultural dominance.

Texas, Georgia, Washington and USC are my anomalies in this equation; not sure what to make of them.

Anyway, UNT is within 30-45 minutes of two major metroplexes, and two if not soon to be three other major universities within those metroplexes. It has to compete for the attention of anyone who has grown up with more of a draw to those schools (by families, TV or otherwise) and then those who may be drawn to other musical or social enterprises that are booming in this area.

And then you have Denton and even the campus itself to contend with. Denton is a super-active town for the weekends - nightlife, music, tons of amazing festivals, etc. Then the campus is bustling with the activities of 500+ student organizations, 1000+ per year concerts from the College of Music (full disclosure, I'm a music composition senior - come to my concerts! ), dance programs, art, yada yada, yada.

I'm not saying that any of the above is bad, in fact I love living in Denton to embrace and experience all of it, but it is a lot for North Texas Athletics to contend with. You won't really find much better to do in South Bend, Tuscaloosa, or Eau Claire on Saturday home games; you might here.

There's my hypothesis, tell me what you think.

NOW.

With all that said, I fully agree that the onus going forward is completely on the administration's shoulders to change the mold and build a better family from the ground up on new students.

Oh, and for us to win games.

Green Mean · September 18, 2012

The problem is, UNT is located in DFW. DFW fans, for the most part, are fair-weather fans. Look at the Rangers of late VS the Rangers of the early-to-mid 2000's. Look at the Stars of today VS the Stars of the late 90's-early 2000's. DFW loves a winner and will not show up for a loser. The only team around here that has a huge enough fan base to fill up their stadium when they're losing is the Cowboys.

Apparently, that attitude is alive and kicking in Denton as well.

Yes DFW loves a winner but that idea and thought exists in every city. If your team stinks and for a good period of time at that then I don't care what kind of fan base you have and in what city but people won't show up.

MeanGreenTexan · September 18, 2012

Yes DFW loves a winner but that idea and thought exists in every city. If your team stinks and for a good period of time at that then I don't care what kind of fan base you have and in what city but people won't show up.

I remember the Mackovic years at UT. Memorial was still constantly full. Colleges should be immune to the professional sports whimsical fans.

We have over 100K alumns in the DFW metroplex alone. Where are even a fraction of these people? For some reason, DFW sports fandom has crashed the mindset of UNT, TCU & SMU fans/alums as well. SMU in particular... they were a legit team last year with a great newer stadium and money to throw at billboards and other advertisements (Pony up?), yet they still didn't draw nearly enough people to their games because they hadn't won in so long.

michagb · September 18, 2012

Something new that I've been tasked with in my new role at UNT is to start a Student Alumni Association. My goal is to get as many students involved and excited as a STUDENT so that when they graduate, it's an easy transition to being an involved excited ALUM. Wish me luck in this endeavor as there are so many apathetic hurdles to jump. Had 20 students at the first meeting. Second meeting is this Friday night. Let's hope the numbers continue to grow!!!

CMJ · September 18, 2012

Texas, Georgia, Washington and USC are my anomalies in this equation; not sure what to make of them.

USC has a somewhat devoted following compared to UCLA (who apparently got nowhere close to selling out the Rose Bowl consistently even in their great run of the mid 80's thru late 90's), but when I first moved to LA right before their renewal in 2002 -- they were only filling up about 2 thirds of the Coliseum. Both UCLA and UCLA have built in advantages being here, but also major issues given the fragmentation of the market.

Especially when the Dodgers are in the playoff hunt.

Proud North Texan · September 18, 2012

Something new that I've been tasked with in my new role at UNT is to start a Student Alumni Association. My goal is to get as many students involved and excited as a STUDENT so that when they graduate, it's an easy transition to being an involved excited ALUM. Wish me luck in this endeavor as there are so many apathetic hurdles to jump. Had 20 students at the first meeting. Second meeting is this Friday night. Let's hope the numbers continue to grow!!!

Good luck in what you are doing.. GMG

Harry · September 18, 2012

Something new that I've been tasked with in my new role at UNT is to start a Student Alumni Association. My goal is to get as many students involved and excited as a STUDENT so that when they graduate, it's an easy transition to being an involved excited ALUM. Wish me luck in this endeavor as there are so many apathetic hurdles to jump. Had 20 students at the first meeting. Second meeting is this Friday night. Let's hope the numbers continue to grow!!!

I don't think they could have picked a better person for this! Very pleased to hear you will be heading this up!

cwb · September 18, 2012

Are we possibly facing the wrong direction when looking for support? Maybe we should be Gainesville's team. And Sherman/Denison's team. Take Fresno St for example. That V on the back of their helmets is there as they represent the San Joaquin Valley. We should embrace the cities to our north and be their pro team. Don't exactly know how to approach it. A couple of letters on the helmet won't work, but some type of marketing in these areas might have more impact than in DFW.

Maybe next year when the volunteers hit the streets with schedules, we could hit some of the small towns up that way? I might even come up from Houston to help.

GreenPepper · September 18, 2012

Are we possibly facing the wrong direction when looking for support? Maybe we should be Gainesville's team. And Sherman/Denison's team. Take Fresno St for example. That V on the back of their helmets is there as they represent the San Joaquin Valley. We should embrace the cities to our north and be their pro team. Don't exactly know how to approach it. A couple of letters on the helmet won't work, but some type of marketing in these areas might have more impact than in DFW.
Maybe next year when the volunteers hit the streets with schedules, we could hit some of the small towns up that way? I might even come up from Houston to help.

Agree!

We should re-define Mean Green Country. Everything North of DFW Airport to the Red River.

(Denton County, Northeast Tarrant County, Collin County, Grayson County and Cook County)

wardly · September 18, 2012

Until fans come out to watch the home team play regardless of opponent, we will always have attendance problems. This may change somewhat when we become a member of the Western Division of CUSA, and play schools of a more regional nature. The question is,for example, that if we don't come out to see ULL or ULM, will we attend game against La.Tech? We may have more fans travel To Denton to support their team, but the responsibilty for filling the stadium is ours.

SilverEagle · September 18, 2012

Agree!
We should re-define Mean Green Country. Everything North of DFW Airport to the Red River.
(Denton County, Northeast Tarrant County, Collin County, Grayson County and Cook County)

*Warning* Hayden Fry reference coming up. Those who hate hearing the aforementioned reference, please go to another thread.

One of the first things that Hayden Fry did after he arrived was to have a traveling pep rally that went around to the town squares of various small towns around Denton. The cheer staff and a small pep band got up on a flat bed trailer in the squares of the aforementioned small towns and had an impromptu pep rally and then the cheer staff (and others) went around to all the businesses and asked to put up schedule posters and season ticket applications. What they conveyed to these small towns was that they wanted to be the official College team of that town, and would everyone please support us?

It seems to me that something like this would be very effective during the spring (assuming that we have any set schedule at that point) and the week before the beginning of the season (if it't not too hot) and following a big win or impressive showing by the football team.....like this week.

The other thing is our spirit group.....the Talons. My idea/expectation of a spirit group is to visibly and frequently show spirit and enthusiasm for North Texas sports. There should be (ideally coordinated with cheer staff and the band) some "spontaneous demonstrations" on campus with EVERYONE (especially the Talons) wearing their particular gear. The Talons should load up in the back of a pickup(s) and drive around campus honking their horns, waving the battle flag, and just generally reminding EVERYONE that a home game is coming up. They should then end up in a common area (high traffic) and connect with the pep band and cheer squad for an on campus spontaneous pep rally.

Edited September 18, 2012 by SilverEagle

GreenPepper · September 18, 2012

North Central Texas College reached 10,000 enrollment this Fall.

Why haven't we reached out to this group?

5,600 students at Corinth campus! GO Get them, TCCC Northeast and Collin CCC as well...

Grant.UNT · September 18, 2012

Something new that I've been tasked with in my new role at UNT is to start a Student Alumni Association. My goal is to get as many students involved and excited as a STUDENT so that when they graduate, it's an easy transition to being an involved excited ALUM. Wish me luck in this endeavor as there are so many apathetic hurdles to jump. Had 20 students at the first meeting. Second meeting is this Friday night. Let's hope the numbers continue to grow!!!

This is awesome!! Glad to hear that there is a person on the staff for this. However, you might should have kept that a secret because you just made yourself a target to many complainers on here.

As for me and my group, we are on your side 100%, and glad to have you on the staff.

KRAM1 · September 18, 2012

Something new that I've been tasked with in my new role at UNT is to start a Student Alumni Association. My goal is to get as many students involved and excited as a STUDENT so that when they graduate, it's an easy transition to being an involved excited ALUM. Wish me luck in this endeavor as there are so many apathetic hurdles to jump. Had 20 students at the first meeting. Second meeting is this Friday night. Let's hope the numbers continue to grow!!!

GREATNESS! One I have been an advocate for going back several years. In fact, I am scheduled to speak to this group on Oct. 19th just to share my experiences with them as an Alumni. I am really looking forward to being there as this is the future for UNT...and the future begins NOW! These students are excited about UNT, want to be part of the UNT experience and will be the future leaders for the region and for UNT.

Super happy to see this getting a start at UNT!

KRAM1 · September 18, 2012

North Central Texas College reached 10,000 enrollment this Fall.
Why haven't we reached out to this group?

5,600 students at Corinth campus! GO Get them, TCCC Northeast and Collin CCC as well...

Who says UNT has not reached out to this group? In fact, UNT is currently engaged in several joint projects with NCTC.

UNTLifer · September 18, 2012

Something new that I've been tasked with in my new role at UNT is to start a Student Alumni Association. My goal is to get as many students involved and excited as a STUDENT so that when they graduate, it's an easy transition to being an involved excited ALUM. Wish me luck in this endeavor as there are so many apathetic hurdles to jump. Had 20 students at the first meeting. Second meeting is this Friday night. Let's hope the numbers continue to grow!!!

I would bet there are a number of alumni on this board that would be happy to speak to your group about the importance of remaining involved after graduation.

Edit: Just saw KRAM's post above. I think this is a great idea that many more of us would be willing to participate.

Edited September 18, 2012 by UNTLifer

michagb · September 18, 2012

agf

This is awesome!! Glad to hear that there is a person on the staff for this. However, you might should have kept that a secret because you just made yourself a target to many complainers on here.

As for me and my group, we are on your side 100%, and glad to have you on the staff.

I'm not afraid! Bring it on.

I would bet there are a number of alumni on this board that would be happy to speak to your group about the importance of remaining involved after graduation.

Edit: Just saw KRAM's post above. I think this is a great idea that many more of us would be willing to participate.

I'd love to have anyone who is willing! Gina in the Alumni office has been reaching out to people, but you guys are always more than welcome just to come and mingle. Our meetings are at 5:30 pm every other Friday in the Alumni Center. We have a meeting this Friday, skipping 10/5 for the Houston game, and then will continue on 10/19, 11/2, and 11/19.

UNTFan23 · September 18, 2012

agf

I'm not afraid! Bring it on.

I'd love to have anyone who is willing! Gina in the Alumni office has been reaching out to people, but you guys are always more than welcome just to come and mingle. Our meetings are at 5:30 pm every other Friday in the Alumni Center. We have a meeting this Friday, skipping 10/5 for the Houston game, and then will continue on 10/19, 11/2, and 11/19.

I wish you the best of luck on the student chapter. This has been tried several times and I don't think participation has ever hit critical mass where the chapter became self-sustaining.

EagleD · September 18, 2012

Silver,

I agree that this culture needs to change. I disagree that there is no plan for it. Game day experience has changed drastically since RV's arrival. New conference next year with more recognizable/regional opponents. New stadium. All these things are designed to get more fans to the game. It's working, but it's gonna take time. Apathy is everywhere.

I travel on Saturdays and work a lot of college football games. I was in Huntington WV to work the Marshall game 2 weeks ago. On game day people all over the city were wearing Marshall gear; hotel, airport, restaraunt workers. The town got behind the school. On a side note, their school colors look a LOT like ours. Kind of felt like I was in Denton.

The week before I was at UAB. It was just the opposite. Btw, that stadium blows (and I have to go back later in the year). I saw more people with Bama gear than UAB.

I feel like our culture is somewhere in between. Marshall is the only game in town, so getting the town hyped up is not as hard. UAB battles Bama for recognition. And loses. We are in Denton and need to get the city hyped. The game day atmosphere has taken a big step in the right direction. We will likely never win DFW for respect. We can't worry about that. But we can change Denton. And we are. Consistent winning will really help. Nobody wants to see a loser when there are other options.

SilverEagle · September 19, 2012

Silver,
I agree that this culture needs to change. I disagree that there is no plan for it. Game day experience has changed drastically since RV's arrival. New conference next year with more recognizable/regional opponents. New stadium. All these things are designed to get more fans to the game. It's working, but it's gonna take time. Apathy is everywhere.

I travel on Saturdays and work a lot of college football games. I was in Huntington WV to work the Marshall game 2 weeks ago. On game day people all over the city were wearing Marshall gear; hotel, airport, restaraunt workers. The town got behind the school. On a side note, their school colors look a LOT like ours. Kind of felt like I was in Denton.
The week before I was at UAB. It was just the opposite. Btw, that stadium blows (and I have to go back later in the year). I saw more people with Bama gear than UAB.
I feel like our culture is somewhere in between. Marshall is the only game in town, so getting the town hyped up is not as hard. UAB battles Bama for recognition. And loses. We are in Denton and need to get the city hyped. The game day atmosphere has taken a big step in the right direction. We will likely never win DFW for respect. We can't worry about that. But we can change Denton. And we are. Consistent winning will really help. Nobody wants to see a loser when there are other options.

I agree that all the physical changes have been helpful, but they are mainly passive changes. We are now allowed to tailgate when before we were not (God, I hated Helwig). There are now many much needed facilities etc etc. But those things are passive. We have a new and marvelous stadium but we have yet to sell it out. Sell-outs don't (or very rarely) happen passively. There needs to be an active plan to fill the stadium and hook people into the program once they do come to the stadium.

As of the TSU game, I have yet to see anything like that.

I guess I'm anxious because we have another historical chance to significantly change things. We have a coach who has aggressively gone about changing the culture of the football team. And unless there is an equal amount of noticeable outward energy happening on the promotions side, we are going to lose another opportunity to change this culture.

IMHO, passively waiting for the football team to start winning and thereby changing the culture on the campus and the community is not going to translate into a long term culture change at North Texas.

MeanGreenTexan · September 19, 2012

I agree that all the physical changes have been helpful, but they are mainly passive changes. We are now allowed to tailgate when before we were not (God, I hated Helwig). There are now many much needed facilities etc etc. But those things are passive. We have a new and marvelous stadium but we have yet to sell it out. Sell-outs don't (or very rarely) happen passively. There needs to be an active plan to fill the stadium and hook people into the program once they do come to the stadium.

As of the TSU game, I have yet to see anything like that.

I guess I'm anxious because we have another historical chance to significantly change things. We have a coach who has aggressively gone about changing the culture of the football team. And unless there is an equal amount of noticeable outward energy happening on the promotions side, we are going to lose another opportunity to change this culture.

IMHO, passively waiting for the football team to start winning and thereby changing the culture on the campus and the community is not going to translate into a long term culture change at North Texas.

It has been stated that the University is looking to fill Apogee for the ESPN2 game. Maybe a National TV audience to show off our school to is the motivation they need to get the ball rolling. Otherwise, I'm not sure if there is an incentive for them to do this... Seems they are (and have been) ok to leave money on the table from ticket/concession sales, so that is not a motivating factor.

GreenMachine · September 19, 2012

It has been stated that the University is looking to fill Apogee for the ESPN2 game. Maybe a National TV audience to show off our school to is the motivation they need to get the ball rolling. Otherwise, I'm not sure if there is an incentive for them to do this... Seems they are (and have been) ok to leave money on the table from ticket/concession sales, so that is not a motivating factor.

It blows me away that the University isn't looking to fill Apogee for EVERY SINGLE GAME. Why wait for a single game in particular?

Edited September 19, 2012 by GreenMachine

EagleD · September 19, 2012

I agree that all the physical changes have been helpful, but they are mainly passive changes. We are now allowed to tailgate when before we were not (God, I hated Helwig). There are now many much needed facilities etc etc. But those things are passive. We have a new and marvelous stadium but we have yet to sell it out. Sell-outs don't (or very rarely) happen passively. There needs to be an active plan to fill the stadium and hook people into the program once they do come to the stadium.

As of the TSU game, I have yet to see anything like that.

I guess I'm anxious because we have another historical chance to significantly change things. We have a coach who has aggressively gone about changing the culture of the football team. And unless there is an equal amount of noticeable outward energy happening on the promotions side, we are going to lose another opportunity to change this culture.

IMHO, passively waiting for the football team to start winning and thereby changing the culture on the campus and the community is not going to translate into a long term culture change at North Texas.

I see your point. And I agree.

SilverEagle · September 20, 2012

You people really seem to think that the AD's office just does not care about crowds and/or intentionally does not try. That is the attitude I get from you.

Let me just say this. If that was the truth, Coach Mac would not be here. Period.

Let me just say this about hiring in general. The hiree does a lot of selling of themselves, but so does the person doing the hiring. Selling (in the case of the hiring process) often times involves a lot of exaggeration and a lot of promises.....on both sides.