Changing the culture at UNT

[SilverEagle]

Let me throw out a few comments/thoughts about what is going on at North Texas, and what still needs to go on.

First of all, we finally have the coach (and assistant coaches) here that have made a significant change in the CULTURE in the football program. For the first time in I don't know how long, we have a team leader saying (and I fully believe that the rest of the team believes it too) that they EXPECTED to win against a ranked opponent. When was the last time that anyone on this board heard such a thing? No doubt about it.....it's an attitude/culture change.

NOW, where do the rest of us fit into this? Just as importantly, WHERE DOES THE ADMINISTRATION FIT INTO THIS?

Coach Mac has done his job! He has recruited, trained, and prepared his team to play with the big boys. And they are doing just that! BUT! it is NOT HIS JOB to change the culture outside of his area of responsibility. It's EVERYONE'S JOB! But most notably it's the job of the people who are paid to attend to such things. And I don't see the same energy, intensity, creativity, or urgency coming from those people as I do the coaching staff of the football team. This cannot continue! I think that Coach Mac has already noticed and he is not amused.

A culture change means that we not only have a full stadium during the good times (and I still haven't seen that), but it stays full during the down times.

For those who say "all that will change when we start winning" I point to the most recent goings on at SMU and the U of Miami. Times aren't so good for them these days and guess what happens?......THEIR FAIR -WEATHER-WE-SHOW-UP-IN-DROVES-WHEN-YOU-ARE-WINNING-FANS are nowhere to be found....and I mean NOWHERE!

As a major component of our culture change (and everyone, including the paid staff, had better get started on it) we have to have fans that show up NO MATTER WHAT!

THAT is what I'm talking about when I talk about culture change.

Now flame away!

Edited September 17, 2012 by SilverEagle

[MeanGreenTexan]

  On 9/17/2012 at 3:20 PM, SilverEagle said:

Let me throw out a few comments/thoughts about what is going on at North Texas, and what still needs to go on.

First of all, we finally have the coach (and assistant coaches) here that have made a significant change in the CULTURE in the football program. For the first time in I don't know how long, we have a team leader saying (and I fully believe that the rest of the team believes it too) that they EXPECTED to win against a ranked opponent. When was the last time that anyone on this board heard such a thing? No doubt about it.....it's an attitude/culture change.

NOW, where do the rest of us fit into this? Just as importantly, WHERE DOES THE ADMINISTRATION FIT INTO THIS?

Coach Mac has done his job! He has recruited, trained, and prepared his team to play with the big boys. And they are doing just that! BUT! it is NOT HIS JOB to change the culture outside of his area of responsibility. It's EVERYONE'S JOB! But most notably it's the job of the people who are paid to attend to such things. And I don't see the same energy, intensity, creativity, or urgency coming from those people as I do the coaching staff of the football team. This cannot continue! I think that Coach Mac has already noticed and he is not amused.

A culture change means that we not only have a full stadium during the good times (and I still haven't seen that), but it stays full during the down times.

For those who say "all that will change when we start winning" I point to the most recent goings on at SMU and the U of Miami. Times aren't so good for them these days and guess what happens?......THEIR FAIR -WEATHER-WE-SHOW-UP-IN-DROVES-WHEN-YOU-ARE-WINNING-FANS are nowhere to be found....and I mean NOWHERE!

As a major component of our culture change (and everyone, including the paid staff, had better get started on it) we have to have fans that show up NO MATTER WHAT!

THAT is what I'm talking about when I talk about culture change.

Now flame away!

The problem is, UNT is located in DFW. DFW fans, for the most part, are fair-weather fans. Look at the Rangers of late VS the Rangers of the early-to-mid 2000's. Look at the Stars of today VS the Stars of the late 90's-early 2000's. DFW loves a winner and will not show up for a loser. The only team around here that has a huge enough fan base to fill up their stadium when they're losing is the Cowboys.

Apparently, that attitude is alive and kicking in Denton as well.

[Greenrex]

It takes time. Stay interested. Be positive. Talk it up. Wear the green.

[NorthTexan95]

  On 9/17/2012 at 3:20 PM, SilverEagle said:

For those who say "all that will change when we start winning" I point to the most recent goings on at SMU and the U of Miami. Times aren't so good for them these days and guess what happens?......THEIR FAIR -WEATHER-WE-SHOW-UP-IN-DROVES-WHEN-YOU-ARE-WINNING-FANS are nowhere to be found....and I mean NOWHERE!

The obvious answer is to always win. Let's go on a 40 game winning streak!

[SilverEagle]

  On 9/17/2012 at 3:47 PM, MeanGreenTexan said:

The problem is, UNT is located in DFW. DFW fans, for the most part, are fair-weather fans. Look at the Rangers of late VS the Rangers of the early-to-mid 2000's. Look at the Stars of today VS the Stars of the late 90's-early 2000's. DFW loves a winner and will not show up for a loser. The only team around here that has a huge enough fan base to fill up their stadium when they're losing is the Cowboys.

Apparently, that attitude is alive and kicking in Denton as well.

And culture change includes negating/overcoming the "we live in the D/FW area and D/FW fans are all fair weather" attitude/excuse. Fans come back when they feel that they are actually a part of something. North Texas students/alumni/fans have never felt that way.

[UNTFan23]

  On 9/17/2012 at 3:58 PM, SilverEagle said:

And culture change includes negating/overcoming the "we live in the D/FW area and D/FW fans are all fair weather" attitude/excuse. Fans come back when they feel that they are actually a part of something. North Texas students/alumni/fans have never felt that way.

Overcoming decades of apathy will not be cured in a couple years; it will have to be a long drawn out process to overcome what you are talking about. The good thing is Coach Mac and RV are cultivating incoming students now to follow the athletic programs and hopefully that pays dividends in the future.

Edited September 17, 2012 by UNTFan23

[MeanGreenTexan]

  On 9/17/2012 at 4:04 PM, UNTFan23 said:

Overcoming decades of apathy will not be cured in a couple years; it will have to be a long drawn out process to overcome what you are talking about. The good thing is Coach Mac and RV are cultivating incoming students now to follow the athletic programs and hopefully that pays dividends in the future.

Correct. We need these students who are coming in pumped up about the Mean Green to graduate and move over to the alumni side, bringing their enthusiasm with them.

[SilverEagle]

  On 9/17/2012 at 4:04 PM, UNTFan23 said:

Overcoming decades of apathy will not be cured in a couple years; it will have to be a long drawn out process to overcome what you are talking about. The good thing is Coach Mac and RV are cultivating incoming students now to follow the athletic programs and hopefully that pays dividends in the future.

I totally agree, but there needs to be a noticeable game plan, and I really haven't seen one. And once again, it's not Coach Mac's job to change the culture outside of the football team. And the other person you mentioned has been here since 2000. And while we now have facilities (the biggest one thanks to UNTFlyer and colleagues..not RV) we still don't have a noticeable culture change.

And one other thing. I find it distressing that anyone would think about writing off just about everyone that came through here before 2008 or 2009. If you are going to write-off those people, then you need to also write-off the staff who were in charge (since 2000) who haven't really made inroads into changing our sports culture.

[Wag Tag]

I am the power of one. I will make my UNT stronger through representation , participation, and donation !

GMG

[Rudy]

I was leaving 24hr Fitness last week and saw this muscled up gym douche wearing a North Texas Cheer shirt. I passed and said "Did you go to UNT?" trying to strike up a conversation with a proud alum. He said yes and asked what I got my degree in. I told him kinesiology and he said he got one in sociology. Then he said " I should have gone to a real school."

At that point I wanted to punch him, but that would be bad. So, I simply shook my head and walked away.

Oh, he roots for Alabama. *smh*

Edited September 17, 2012 by Rudy

[oldguystudent]

  On 9/17/2012 at 4:20 PM, SilverEagle said:

I totally agree, but there needs to be a noticeable game plan, and I really haven't seen one. And once again, it's not Coach Mac's job to change the culture outside of the football team. And the other person you mentioned has been here since 2000. And while we now have facilities (the biggest one thanks to UNTFlyer and colleagues..not RV) we still don't have a noticeable culture change.

And one other thing. I find it distressing that anyone would think about writing off just about everyone that came through here before 2008 or 2009. If you are going to write-off those people, then you need to also write-off the staff who were in charge (since 2000) who haven't really made inroads into changing our sports culture.

Two-way street there. I can't control that I just got here in 2008. I can't control that I got through the graduate program in record time with top grades, so only got employment enabling me a meager level of donation this calendar year. Yet for the entirety of my time, these things have been held against me.

Change the culture? Embrace and develop the younger fan base with the open arms of the old, and stop sweating the small stuff that usually books down to clothing, standing, and stickers.

[TheColonyEagle]

  On 9/17/2012 at 3:20 PM, SilverEagle said:

For those who say "all that will change when we start winning" I point to the most recent goings on at SMU and the U of Miami. Times aren't so good for them these days and guess what happens?......THEIR FAIR -WEATHER-WE-SHOW-UP-IN-DROVES-WHEN-YOU-ARE-WINNING-FANS are nowhere to be found....and I mean NOWHERE!

As a major component of our culture change (and everyone, including the paid staff, had better get started on it) we have to have fans that show up NO MATTER WHAT!

You're talking about maybe 10 programs in the country that will show up no matter what.

I went to a Longhorn game when I was in highschool in the 90s....there were plenty of seats available.

I'm sorry Silver, it is wins and only wins that will get this turned around. Do you think the Rangers were sitting around trying to figure out how to get people in the stands when they were finishing 3rd and 4th every year? What have they done differently from a marketing standpoint to break the 3 million mark in attendance this year? Their marketing department is Ron Washington. Just like our marketing department is Dan McCarney. Watch what happens in Boise, Idaho the first time they go 6-6. The Cowboys will not sell out that stadium if they go 7-9.

Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX is and always will be a winners town, period.

I understand what you're saying. It frustrates me too. But what the hell is the AD supposed to do to get people to choose to show up to the games when we've been so bad for so long?

It's going to take more time.

Go 8-4 followed by 10-2 with a bowl win in between and you'll all the sudden see the culture magically change.

Gonna take wins and nothing else.

We had a run from 2001-2005 but crappy facilities. Then we had nice facilities with crappy football.

We have never seen the two hit at the same time and I think when we do....this thing is going to explode.

[TheColonyEagle]

  On 9/17/2012 at 4:26 PM, Rudy said:

I was leaving 24hr Fitness last week and saw this muscled up gym douche wearing a North Texas Cheer shirt. I passed and said "Did you go to UNT?" trying to strike up a conversation with a proud alum. He said yes and asked what I got my degree in. I told him kinesiology and he said he got one in sociology. Then he said " I should have gone to a real school."

At that point I wanted to punch him, but that would be bad. So, I simply shook my head and walked away.

Oh, he roots for Alabama. *smh*

Well I was in Best Buy yesterday with a MG shirt on and someone saw it and asked, "did you watch that game?" I said yeah and we had a conversation about how good they looked and how close it was.

Had several people at work make similar comments this morning.

Why?

Because of the of the product on the field. Which was commented on by national and local media, which put it out there. This morning, 100,000 alumni working in the DFW metroplex went to work and were probably told the same thing.

When the product on the field adds to credibility.....the culture will change.

Edited September 17, 2012 by TheColonyEagle

[oldguystudent]

Meanwhile, I found myself near Berry Street in the heart of hundreds of collar popping frog fans, tv on FSN, crowd screaming bloody murder when UNT stopped KSU at the four.

Lots of ” Wow! UNT is getting really good!”

[LongJim]

It's up to the alumni and community to deliver a culture change by deciding they will support the program. UNT *is* its alumni and community. It's not up to the AD to continually stroke the alumni/community to get them to come out/donate *if* they do so-and-so.

The school/AD/students/alumni have delivered the facilities and the coaching staff. The coaching staff is beginning to deliver results. It's up to the alumni and community to step up to change the culture. Like it or not, the students/alumni and community *are* the culture. *They* have to make the decision to change the culture. And that may be in conjunction with or IN SPITE OF what the administration/AD do.

Continual blame of the administration and AD is excuse making. Nut up and support your school. Wag the freaking dog for once.

[kalebschumann]

Whenever I tailgate, I get a whole slew of music friends to come out.

Most of them don't really care about football or even know what's going on, but they walk from the parking lot to the stands with me. We sit right by the GB and yell loudly (basically at all times).

These people are not die-hards, they just like hanging out with their friends. I just got them to hang out at Apogee on Saturday home games. And over the past two years or so, some of those music people have turned into die hards. So it's happening. There are more butts in seats.

I know the cutlure is a heck of a lot better than when I first got to NT in 2007.

[Harry]

  Quote

It is very simple.. Every year, everyone who is on here needs to bring 5 new fans to games. It is as simple as that. Out of those 5 fans we may keep one. Those we keep, embed the idea that growing fanbase is important and it is everyone's job to keep it going. If you can bring more, so be it. Do what you can. As the years go by, the fan base grows exponentially.

Wow - so well stated and absolutely dead on accurate. We need to be the Amway of College football programs. We need to each build a pyramid of fans underneath us as Laxtonto describes by bringing people to every game.

It's not easy logistically but the value of putting in a little extra time and money to get new faces exposed to Apogee is well worth it. Same thing applies to basketball at the Pit this year although basketball may be an easier sell with the product they are rolling out there.

[Daddy Dumpsalot]

  On 9/17/2012 at 3:20 PM, SilverEagle said:

Let me throw out a few comments/thoughts about what is going on at North Texas, and what still needs to go on.

First of all, we finally have the coach (and assistant coaches) here that have made a significant change in the CULTURE in the football program. For the first time in I don't know how long, we have a team leader saying (and I fully believe that the rest of the team believes it too) that they EXPECTED to win against a ranked opponent. When was the last time that anyone on this board heard such a thing? No doubt about it.....it's an attitude/culture change.

NOW, where do the rest of us fit into this? Just as importantly, WHERE DOES THE ADMINISTRATION FIT INTO THIS?

Coach Mac has done his job! He has recruited, trained, and prepared his team to play with the big boys. And they are doing just that! BUT! it is NOT HIS JOB to change the culture outside of his area of responsibility. It's EVERYONE'S JOB! But most notably it's the job of the people who are paid to attend to such things. And I don't see the same energy, intensity, creativity, or urgency coming from those people as I do the coaching staff of the football team. This cannot continue! I think that Coach Mac has already noticed and he is not amused.

A culture change means that we not only have a full stadium during the good times (and I still haven't seen that), but it stays full during the down times.

For those who say "all that will change when we start winning" I point to the most recent goings on at SMU and the U of Miami. Times aren't so good for them these days and guess what happens?......THEIR FAIR -WEATHER-WE-SHOW-UP-IN-DROVES-WHEN-YOU-ARE-WINNING-FANS are nowhere to be found....and I mean NOWHERE!

As a major component of our culture change (and everyone, including the paid staff, had better get started on it) we have to have fans that show up NO MATTER WHAT!

THAT is what I'm talking about when I talk about culture change.

Now flame away!

I agree that winning is very important but you didn't see our culture (or attendance) change much during the era that we were dominating the belt and going to bowl games in early 2000. I think you will see a drastic change come 2013 in fan support and turnout as a result of the better quality opponent we will field, but I don't think that we will get to the point that our fans stay the entire game 'no matter the score' anytime in the near future. As someone pointed out, we are trying to undo what has been sowed for years. Our students and alumni are looking for a reason for the football team to fail since that's what most have known, always. I don't think Tx Southern wins will change that, I think big wins will, wins against the K-states and Indianas of the world. Something that gives everyone the mentality of 'hey we can actually win this'.

[KRAM1]

  On 9/17/2012 at 3:58 PM, SilverEagle said:

And culture change includes negating/overcoming the "we live in the D/FW area and D/FW fans are all fair weather" attitude/excuse. Fans come back when they feel that they are actually a part of something. North Texas students/alumni/fans have never felt that way.

Silver...while I agree with most of this and gave you a +1...please know that you are not speaking for all alumni when you infer that "they are not part of something". Sometimes you get out and back from what you put into something. As you may know, I give a lot of my time to UNT and I feel VERY much a part of UNT. Perhaps some of our Alums who don't feel a part of it may need to actually open their eyes and see where and what they can be a a part of and where their interests in getting involved lie...it's really a two way street as it is in most cases. Sit around and want to be spoon fed? Well, you will probably be very unhappy...get involved...well, might just open ones eyes a bit. I know you are involved in several areas, but many alums are not....if they feel "left out" or not a part of anything, well perhaps they should look in the mirror and see the reason why. Lots of areas and ways to get involved these days....my bride thinks I may be too involved with all the days and hours I spend on various projects for and with UNT (HA!) ....so, give it a try. One might see how taking that initiative to get involved might just make one actually feel involved and feel a part of something great going on at UNT these days. And, i am not talking just about athletics here....lots of areas in which to get involved...including the Alumni Association who just helped to sponsor a great Oktoberfest event and watch party at the Alumni pavilion just this last Saturday...everyone attending certainly felt a part of UNT...or so it appeared to me!

[UNT90]

Wait... Aren't we in the middle of a football season?

Edited September 17, 2012 by UNT90

[KRAM1]

  On 9/17/2012 at 4:26 PM, Rudy said:

I was leaving 24hr Fitness last week and saw this muscled up gym douche wearing a North Texas Cheer shirt. I passed and said "Did you go to UNT?" trying to strike up a conversation with a proud alum. He said yes and asked what I got my degree in. I told him kinesiology and he said he got one in sociology. Then he said " I should have gone to a real school."

At that point I wanted to punch him, but that would be bad. So, I simply shook my head and walked away.

Oh, he roots for Alabama. *smh*

Well...he did get a degree in sociology...just saying.....at least he wasn't wearing an Alabama shirt...and what makes Alabama a "real" school and UNT not a "real" school, I dare wonder? Stupid is as stupid does.

[Harry]

  On 9/17/2012 at 6:15 PM, Daddy Dumpsalot said:

I agree that winning is very important but you didn't see our culture (or attendance) change much during the era that we were dominating the belt and going to bowl games in early 2000. I think you will see a drastic change come 2013 in fan support and turnout as a result of the better quality opponent we will field, but I don't think that we will get to the point that our fans stay the entire game 'no matter the score' anytime in the near future. As someone pointed out, we are trying to undo what has been sowed for years. Our students and alumni are looking for a reason for the football team to fail since that's what most have known, always. I don't think Tx Southern wins will change that, I think big wins will, wins against the K-states and Indianas of the world. Something that gives everyone the mentality of 'hey we can actually win this'.

good post DD.

[SilverEagle]

Just like Coach Mac's team this year, it starts and ends with expectations. If I were in charge of game day and attendance, my expectation would be that our lowest attendance numbers during our most down years would be like the TSU game.

Coach Mac can't be the only one with expectations.....it has to be culture wide.

[drex]

In 2012 the program is an easy sell. I have two friends who graduated in 1970 who I brought to some games and to the alumni pavilion last year...they joined the alumni assn. and now have season tickets for football and soon for basketball. They were impressed with the quality they saw and want to be a part of it...not to mention their good memories of the Joe Greene days when they were in school.

[chrisfisher]

I agree with your major points, but I'd have to say that we have few fair weather fans given that we have only won 5 games in the past how many years, and still have 18,000 to 25,000 people show for a home game. That is basically the size of our base, hardcore fans. To have fair weather fans, you have to actually win. If you throw the tailgaters into that number, than it goes up considerably. I think what we need now are ways to convince the taligaters to come into the game plus bring in new fans from the student body and community.