The Glory Years revisited

[Harry]

In Mac's press conference he was very careful to share his appreciation for the Bowl teams (2001-04) and the successes we had. He said he was proud of that and welcomed all of those players back with open arms.

That said - he made a very valid point. In our great years, the years we all point to as the "glory" years we went 2-16 in non conference and one of those wins was against Nichols State. When he stated that it made me feel like I was at an AA meeting and I had just raised my hand and said, "yes we went 2-16 in non-conference.."

So the point of this post is not to dog pile on what truly were the glory years of our program. Rather, I just want to say that those were good times for all of us and yet we all should expect better going forward.

What he didn't say was that during that time we had probably the worst facilities in Division I. We had the lowest coaching salaries in division I and every time we had an assistant coach who could recruit we lost him the next year for a 10-15K increase in salary... and worse there wasn't even an true internal effort to keep them. We had a very difficult non-conference schedule during those years, often playing the best in the country. Were there some Arizonas and TCU's prior to their rise - sure there was and frankly those were games we should have won. My point is-- there were some valid reasons that we were unable to get over the hump. I frankly don't think Dan McCarney would have taken this job if he had Fouts and the budget issues we were facing way back when.

So - I agree that 2-16 is one of the darker aspects of our bowl run and we absolutely were unable to capitalize on our successes for a myriad of reasons. I think we all agree with Coach Mac that that we should expect more and get better results. I also think comparing our successes then to our successes now are like apples and oranges. We now have tremendous facilities, coaches and a commitment to success that we could only dream of in the "glory years".

[Mean Green 93-98]

There is no doubt that during the time I have followed North Texas football, '01-04 were the glory years. But that's largely relative to how bad we have been in the years immediately preceding and the years following. There have definitely been years that North Texas has been far better from a national perspective. But everything that we have ever done in the past is despite countless obstacles . . . as you mention, terrible facilities, low salaries . . . also apathetic administrations, less-than-stellar support from the community, historically bad officiating (see Texas '88). Now that most of those obstacles are out of the way, there is no reason why North Texas's glory years--on a national level and for a prolonged period--should not be ahead of us.

[BIG DAWG]

That is the part of Mac's speech that I really thought about...

I'm glad he said it, because no one else in his position has, and the way he said it fired me up too...made me think that equal success under his watch will be seen by him as more of one of the initial steps up the ladder to bigger and better, rather than any sort of pinnacle for the program.

I did feel a little "small time" almost though, as I have referred to that period as the "Glory Years" countless times. I can't wait for waht Mac's version of the "Glory Years" look like...I might not be able to handle it as the "Glory Years" of the early 2000's were pretty damn exciting!

It is a good time to be GREEN!

Go MEAN GREEN!!!!!!!!!

[Stan R]

Harry I get what you are saying, on the other hand... HE HAD BETTER WIN to back up that kind of talk. I was impressed by last year but if he comes out with a team that could care less in OOC play this year, he's going to look a little silly.

[Green Goblin]

Was anyone there for this classic (and possibly alcohol related) UNT glory years moment?

[forevereagle]

[UNT Mean Green]

In Mac's press conference he was very careful to share his appreciation for the Bowl teams (2001-04) and the successes we had. He said he was proud of that and welcomed all of those players back with open arms.

That said - he made a very valid point. In our great years, the years we all point to as the "glory" years we went 2-16 in non conference and one of those wins was against Nichols State. When he stated that it made me feel like I was at an AA meeting and I had just raised my hand and said, "yes we went 2-16 in non-conference.."

So the point of this post is not to dog pile on what truly were the glory years of our program. Rather, I just want to say that those were good times for all of us and yet we all should expect better going forward.

What he didn't say was that during that time we had probably the worst facilities in Division I. We had the lowest coaching salaries in division I and every time we had an assistant coach who could recruit we lost him the next year for a 10-15K increase in salary... and worse there wasn't even an true internal effort to keep them. We had a very difficult non-conference schedule during those years, often playing the best in the country. Were there some Arizonas and TCU's prior to their rise - sure there was and frankly those were games we should have won. My point is-- there were some valid reasons that we were unable to get over the hump. I frankly don't think Dan McCarney would have taken this job if he had Fouts and the budget issues we were facing way back when.

So - I agree that 2-16 is one of the darker aspects of our bowl run and we absolutely were unable to capitalize on our successes for a myriad of reasons. I think we all agree with Coach Mac that that we should expect more and get better results. I also think comparing our successes then to our successes now are like apples and oranges. We now have tremendous facilities, coaches and a commitment to success that we could only dream of in the "glory years".

Great post. Definitely my favorite comment(s) at Media Day. McCarney has set the bar for expectations high, and there's no reason to doubt his leadership and vision.

[greenminer]

Was anyone there for this classic (and possibly alcohol related) UNT glory years moment?

Very funny moment, and def not involving alcohol. The guy was thrown off by the acoustics in Fouts.

[BIG DAWG]

Was anyone there for this classic (and possibly alcohol related) UNT glory years moment?

LOVE IT!!! That will forever live in the hearts and minds of NT fans! That is Mean Grean GREATNESS!!!

Long live Ron Mastry!!!!

[Censored by Laurie]

def not involving alcohol. The guy was thrown off by the acoustics in Fouts.

Not seeing how these a mutually exclusive.

[meanrob]

I was frustrated as anybody with our non-conf record during those years but win 5 conference games in a row, hell win 5 conf games in a season, much less 25 in a row and then we'll talk.

Besides 94, those are the only winning seasons I've experienced in close to 20 years as a Mean Green fan. Pardon me if I hold them close to my heart.

[TIgreen01]

Those teams beat teams with equal or lessor talent, but struggled offensively against better talent. Nothing at all wrong with that. That's EXACTLY what Boise did. But Boise followed it up by continually raising their budget and competing to keep their best coaches. Every non-AQ team in the country wants to be the next Boise, and it's becoming tiring to hear...but having played in the Big West with them, and owning that series with them, we really were right there with them for a few years. When the Big West fell apart and they went to the WAC and we went Sun Belt, we both immediately dominated our conferences. Back during our conference winning streak, we were most often comparing streaks with Boise.

But college athletics is all about the $$. Getting Apogee built and moving into CUSA will help, but we need to find a way to increase donations/revenue into the program or we'll find ourselves in ten years pointing to the McCarney years as our latest round of 'glory'. For those of you who are unsure, there is no question that we are in the midst of another rise with McCarney, Chico and Skladany running the show. I'm not sure we've EVER had a coach as qualified to coach defense as Skladany. It's gonna be a fun run here for the next few years. Hopefully we find a way to do what Boise did/does....and keep increasing interest/donations/revenue to match our growth and ensure the run doesn't end prematurely.

[UNT 90 Grad]

Was anyone there for this classic (and possibly alcohol related) UNT glory years moment?

I was there on the field standing next to a police officer. When Ron was talking, the cop was just shaking his head.

The issue was that there was an appreciable delay between the time he said something in the mic and when the sound came out if the speakers. That was throwing him off.

It was very funny.

[Harry]

I still would like to find out which student or fan yelled out the "Oh Yeahhh". That cracked me up as much as Maestry!

[Mean Green 93-98]

Those teams beat teams with equal or lessor talent, but struggled offensively against better talent. Nothing at all wrong with that. That's EXACTLY what Boise did.

No, a big part of what Boise did was to get signature wins against clearly superior talent. A couple of wins against Oregon State in the early 2000's, the huge Fiesta Bowl win against OU, beating an Oregon team in 2008 that would finish the year ranked #10, and just last year absolutely dismantling a Georgia team with far better talent on paper. They've had their share of huge OOC wins, and that's a great gulf fixed that we've got to cross.

[Monkeypox]

No, a big part of what Boise did was to get signature wins against clearly superior talent. A couple of wins against Oregon State in the early 2000's, the huge Fiesta Bowl win against OU, beating an Oregon team in 2008 that would finish the year ranked #10, and just last year absolutely dismantling a Georgia team with far better talent on paper. They've had their share of huge OOC wins, and that's a great gulf fixed that we've got to cross.

Boise State:

1997 - Houston Nutt

4-7

Wins vs. Weber State, NMSU, UNT, Idaho

1998 - Dirk Koetter

6-5

Wins vs. Northridge State, Portland State, Utah, Weber State, USU, NMSU

1999 - Dirk Koetter

10-3

Wins vs. Southern Utah, New Mexico, Utah, Eastern Washington, Nevada, USU, ASU, NMSU, Idaho, Louisville

2000 - Dirk Koetter

10-2

Wins vs. New Mexico, Northern Iowa, Central Michigan, Eastern Washington, UNT, NMSU, ASU, USU, Idaho, UTEP

I believe that would be the timeframe that TIgreen was referring to.

[TheTastyGreek]

TALE OF THE TAPE:

Coach Dickey:

Diabetes, gall bladder removal due to complications

Heart attack during season

Longest conference win streak: 26 games

Signature home win vs. bottom feeder BCS school: Baylor

Demoralizing beatdown from Tulsa? CHECK

UNT record vs. SMU: 1-0

Coach Mac:

Eye issues, partial blindness due to complications

Stroke during offseason

Longest conference win streak: 1 game (current streak: 1 game)

Signature home win vs. bottom feeder BCS school: Indiana

Demoralizing beatdown from Tulsa? CHECK

UNT record vs. SMU: To Be Determined

Close on many measurements, but... Beat SMU or win 27 conference games in a row. Until further notice- Scoreboard, Dickey.

I do still love Coach Mac, though.

[H-towngreen]

One of the biggest disappointments of the "glory years" was the inability to capitalize on the success in recruiting.

[UNT90]

One of the biggest disappointments of the "glory years" was the inability to capitalize on the success in recruiting.

Another was an abysmal OOC record that drew no attention toward the football program and affected the ability to recruit.

Beating ULL, MTSU, and the like just didn't, and doesn't, do it for the casual UNT alum and college fan.

Thank God this is our last year in the Belt.

[Cooley]

Where did the "Glory years" tag come from in the first place? Mac didn't exactly say anything that many didn't already know and feel. That run was against new schools to D1 football and before Troy joined. Honestly, we have not had any glory years in ages. UNT's facilities and salaries were on par with everyone else in that startup league. True, there were 26 consecutive wins against these startups but we didn't dominate anybody. Outside of the worst conference in D1 football, as Mac accurately pointed out, we were awful. We will eventually get there with a new stadium and a better regional conference. Not convinced it will be under McCarney, who doesn't exactly have a storied history at Iowa St himself.

Maybe it's just me but i'm embarrassed to suggest to anyone outside of Denton or this message board that those start up years in the Sunbelt were glorious times.

[shaft]

...and that's why Dickey isn't here anymore.

Despite the DD success in the early days of the Sun Belt he failed to convert that momentum into building the program and Out Of Conference wins.

2001 - Miracle season. Go bowling for the first time in 40 years, but we were also 5-6.

2002 -Great year. Win the bowl against Cincy

2003 - Great year. Beat Baylor, go bowling, but couldn't beat Memphis.

2004 - Good year. The rest of the SBC was pretty bad, go bowling, but we got exposed in the bowl against Southern Miss.

Things like "stealth recruiting" and "buick ball" made sense in 2000-2002. But as the program began to establish itself, DD failed to make upgrades to the coaching staff, play calling, and recruiting practices.

I think DD got a raw deal being fired mid-season after he'd had a heart attack. I think RV could have waited six weeks and the team would have ended up with 1 or 2 more wins that year.

Dodge was a total failure. He had the personality to be a head coach, but is assistant coach choices did him in from day one.

Mac got a huge break playing a bad Indiana team at home. But I feel like he's a guy that use momentum from wins like that, where DD couldn't capitalize on a better win over Texas Tech.

[GrandGreen]

Where did the "Glory years" tag come from in the first place? Mac didn't exactly say anything that many didn't already know and feel. That run was against new schools to D1 football and before Troy joined. Honestly, we have not had any glory years in ages. UNT's facilities and salaries were on par with everyone else in that startup league. True, there were 26 consecutive wins against these startups but we didn't dominate anybody. Outside of the worst conference in D1 football, as Mac accurately pointed out, we were awful. We will eventually get there with a new stadium and a better regional conference. Not convinced it will be under McCarney, who doesn't exactly have a storied history at Iowa St himself.

Maybe it's just me but i'm embarrassed to suggest to anyone outside of Denton or this message board that those start up years in the Sunbelt were glorious times.

The 2002 and 2003 teams were far from awful. Besides 26 straight wins in any conference was great, NT never went undefeated in conference even in the Southland. I wouldn't call the 2001 to 2004 Glory years, in fact I don't know anyone other than Vito that has ever stated that.

Although, I like Mac's attitude; I would like him to win some meaningful games before he starts downplaying the 4 straight Belt championships. I thought his quotes were a little strange because he has been very careful to praise the Belt but went the opposite way with his quotes about those teams only having success against the Belt.

[TIgreen01]

Boise State:

1997 - Houston Nutt

4-7

Wins vs. Weber State, NMSU, UNT, Idaho

1998 - Dirk Koetter

6-5

Wins vs. Northridge State, Portland State, Utah, Weber State, USU, NMSU

1999 - Dirk Koetter

10-3

Wins vs. Southern Utah, New Mexico, Utah, Eastern Washington, Nevada, USU, ASU, NMSU, Idaho, Louisville

2000 - Dirk Koetter

10-2

Wins vs. New Mexico, Northern Iowa, Central Michigan, Eastern Washington, UNT, NMSU, ASU, USU, Idaho, UTEP

I believe that would be the timeframe that TIgreen was referring to.

Heck, you can keep on going up until 2006 (when they finally took down that "clearly superior talent"). The only BCS level team that they beat during their rise was Oregon State...back when Oregon State was mediocre to bad. The rest of the time, they played against what was regularly the easiest, or 2nd easiest schedule in all of FBS.

Away games are bolded

2005:

9-3

Wins vs Bowling Green, Hawaii, Portland State, San Jose, Utah St, Nevada, NMSU, Idaho, LaTech

Losses to Georgia, Oregon State (finshed 5-6), Fresno

2004:

11-0

Wins vs Idaho, Oregon State (6-5), UTEP, BYU, SMU, Tulsa, Fresno, Hawaii, San Jose, LaTech, Nevada

2003:

12-1

Wins vs Idaho St, Idaho, Wyoming, LaTech, Tulsa, SMU, San Jose, BYU, UTEP, Fresno, Nevada, Hawaii

Losses vs Oregon St (7-5)

2002:

11-1

Wins vs Idaho, Wyoming, Utah St, Hawaii, Tulsa, Fresno, San Jose, UTEP, Rice, LaTech, Nevada

Loses vs Arkansas (14-41)

2001:

8-4

Wins vs UTEP, Idaho, Tulsa, Fresno, Nevada, Hawaii, San Jose, Central Mich

Loses vs South Carolina, Wash St, Rice, LaTech

And really, the EXACT time period that we're comparing is 2001-2004, right? So, here's UNT's results during that time period:

2001:

5-6

Wins vs. MTSU, Ark St, NMSU, LaLa, Idaho, Troy

Loses vs. TCU, OU (#1), Texas Tech, South Florida, ULM (all but TCU was away)

2002:

7-5

Wins vs. Nicholls St, ArkSt, LaLa, ULM, Idaho, NMSU, MTSU

Loses vs UT (#2), Alabama, TCU, Arizona, South Florida (all but South Florida was away)

2003:

9-3

Wins vs.

Baylor, LaLa, Idaho, Utah St, MTSU, Troy, ULM, Ark St, NMSU

Loses vs OU (#1 ranked), Air Force, Arkansas

2004:

7-4

Wins vs. MTSU, Utah St, NMSU, ULM, LaLa, Idaho, Ark St

Loses vs UT (#7), FAU, Colorado, Baylor

Really, the BIGGEST difference was that we played a top 5 team on the road every single year during this span, while Boise did not. In fact, almost all of our loses were on the road during this span. UNT's only home loses during that 4 year run were: South Florida, FAU, TCU. As we all know, NONE of our loses were against any conference mates. Also, we played at least 3 teams from BCS level conferences on the road every year. Boise played one, sometimes 2.

The point is, give those 2001-04 (really 2002-2004) UNT teams a schedule with the toughest OOC game being against Baylor, Colorado, or Texas Tech in any given year and I think you'd have seen some 11-1, 10-2 type years like Boise was putting together. Either way, Boise was raising money during their run. We were not. Our run ended and theirs continues on to this day.

[Monkeypox]

Yeah, I really wanted to clarify that I didn't think it was a slight on Boise's more recent successes, where they've knocked off tough opponents. But they scheduled BRILLIANTLY over time, slowly increasing the level of competition as they became more confident in their ability to handle it. Part of that is just luck (as schedules are worked out so far in advance), but Boise BUILT their program on very few "body bag" opponents.

Now, partly that's not a fair comparison because, yes, they were also raising money. The other part of that is that, for them, regional opponents were more WAC, MWC, Pac-10 and for us they're more Big 12, SEC, CUSA.

[Mean Green 93-98]

Heck, you can keep on going up until 2006 (when they finally took down that "clearly superior talent"). The only BCS level team that they beat during their rise was Oregon State...back when Oregon State was mediocre to bad. The rest of the time, they played against what was regularly the easiest, or 2nd easiest schedule in all of FBS.

Okay, those were nice "building years" . . . but they would never be where they are today if they had never taken down the big boys. You make it sound as if their rise to prominence was all about beating the weaker teams in the WAC.