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The Insanity Of The Insanity Plea

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Harry Grand Master

Harry

Posted
Posted

This is a travesty. I understand that she is mentally ill and should receive some consideration for that but to be released this soon after what she did??? Something is wrong with our system. I would like to hear Silver's thoughts on this.

UNT90 Newbie

UNT90

Posted
Posted

This is a travesty. I understand that she is mentally ill and should receive some consideration for that but to be released this soon after what she did??? Something is wrong with our system. I would like to hear Silver's thoughts on this.

The system is only as good as the 12 people sitting in the jury box.

UNT90 Newbie

UNT90

Posted
Posted (edited)

They didn't release her.

Not guilty by reason of insanity.

They may not have opened the door, but they damn sure unlocked the gate.

Edited by UNT90
UNT90 Newbie

UNT90

Posted
Posted

The state allows it as a defence, and the court has to permiss the jury to consider it. So, not really.

So no judgement for the people who set her release in motion?

You do know the the judge who released her pretty much has to go by the psychiatrist diagnosis, right? The judge doesn'tt determine whether she is sane or not, he relies on doctor reports.

The whole thing could have been avoided with a guilty verdict from the jury, but, for whatever reason, they chose not to be punitive.

Make excuses for them all you want, but they are the 12 that set this process in motion.

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forevereagle Newbie

forevereagle

Posted
Posted

You do know the the judge who released her pretty much has to go by the psychiatrist diagnosis, right? The judge doesn'tt determine whether she is sane or not, he relies on doctor reports.

The whole thing could have been avoided with a guilty verdict from the jury, but, for whatever reason, they chose not to be punitive.

Make excuses for them all you want, but they are the 12 that set this process in motion.

So the jury is able to diagnose it? Did they not have to rely on what a doctor reported in the trial?

UNT Five&Dime Community Regular

UNT Five&Dime

Posted
Posted (edited)

So no judgement for the people who set her release in motion?

You do know the the judge who released her pretty much has to go by the psychiatrist diagnosis, right? The judge doesn'tt determine whether she is sane or not, he relies on doctor reports.

The whole thing could have been avoided with a guilty verdict from the jury, but, for whatever reason, they chose not to be punitive.

Make excuses for them all you want, but they are the 12 that set this process in motion.

Never made excuses for them. Just pointing out that many factors played into this, not simply the jury. Really, I thought the discussion was about her release, not her trial, which is why I responded about your jury comment. You said the system is only as good as them. They had no part in the '08 release. And yes, I realize judges do not make psychiatric judgements.

So you put no blame on the evaluator(s)? Do you know she was/is not recovered? Did you sit in on all the court proceedings to know she was not insane at the time? Are you an expert on metal illness? I thought we should accept the court's decisions since they hear all the facts? If she wasn't insane, do we accept her account that God told her to do it? Does He take any blame then?

Things aren't quite black and white, no matter how much you try to make them.

Edited by UNT Five&Dime
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UNT90 Newbie

UNT90

Posted
Posted

Never made excuses for them. Just pointing out that many factors played into this, not simply the jury. Really, I thought the discussion was about her release, not her trial, which is why I responded about your jury comment. You said the system is only as good as them. They had no part in the '08 release. And yes, I realize judges do not make psychiatric judgements.

So you put no blame on the evaluator(s)? Do you know she was/is not recovered? Did you sit in on all the court proceedings to know she was not insane at the time? Are you an expert on metal illness? I thought we should accept the court's decisions since they hear all the facts? If she wasn't insane, do we accept her account that God told her to do it? Does He take any blame then?

Things aren't quite black and white, no matter how much you try to make them.

We actually agree on many things. I was merely pointing out that citizens are a part of "the system", and that the jury verdict, right or wrong, is where the release process actually began.

And your right. Not one of us were in the court room to hear the evidence, but that doesnt mean juries don't make mistakes. OJ and Casey Anthony are just 2 examples.

UNT Five&Dime Community Regular

UNT Five&Dime

Posted
Posted

We actually agree on many things. I was merely pointing out that citizens are a part of "the system", and that the jury verdict, right or wrong, is where the release process actually began.

And your right. Not one of us were in the court room to hear the evidence, but that doesnt mean juries don't make mistakes. OJ and Casey Anthony are just 2 examples.

The glove didn't fit...

UNT90 Newbie

UNT90

Posted
Posted

So the jury is able to diagnose it? Did they not have to rely on what a doctor reported in the trial?

The jury has a choice on what to rely on or not rely on in reaching their verdict.

adman Apprentice

adman

Posted
Posted

So no judgement for the people who set her release in motion?

The whole thing could have been avoided with a guilty verdict from the jury, but, for whatever reason, they chose not to be punitive.

So you'd prefer a jury ignore evidence and simply meter out punishment?

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The Fake Lonnie Finch Newbie

The Fake Lonnie Finch

Posted
Posted

Very few people cop insanity pleas, less than 1% in all criminal cases. Of those, less than a quarter mount successful defenses based on those pleas. That is the reason they are "high profile" - they don't have often, and they are not often successful.

We know of this woman and the Andrea Yates gal mainly because we are in Texas and the murders were horrifying to the max because children were involved.

Jurisdictions differ, but I have to admit that it is strange that baby killers are sprung while nutcases like John Hinckley, Jr. are still mainly confined.

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UNT90 Newbie

UNT90

Posted
Posted

So you'd prefer a jury ignore evidence and simply meter out punishment?

If by evidence you mean a psychiatric opinion, yes, I would have preferred the jury have a punitive approach.

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UNTstormchaser Newbie

UNTstormchaser

Posted
Posted

This is ridiculous. I'm all for hospitalizing criminals with metal illnesses in lieu of jail time, but there needs to be a way to prevent shit like this from happening.

I have a rather simple solution. If you're deemed mentally ill and would normally be considered not guilty under that circumstance, put the verdict on hold. Put the person into the mental hospital indefinitely, and if that person is never considered "cured", then they stay there for life. If the person is ever "cured", put them back on trial without being able to use the insanity plea. One might argue that this is unfair, since the people were mentally ill, and shouldn't be punished because of that, but it isn't like we can just let these people walk free after. So, I think that's a fair compromise.

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UNTstormchaser Newbie

UNTstormchaser

Posted
Posted

She was working for a Wal Mart in Terrell. I'm not sure how you guys are gleaning that her sentence was over.

That is indeed a valid point.

UNT90 Newbie

UNT90

Posted
Posted

She was working for a Wal Mart in Terrell. I'm not sure how you guys are gleaning that her sentence was over.

Was.. Now I'm sure she will be collecting all kinds of government assistance. If we are going to pay for her lifestyle, I'd rather pay for one with bars.

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