$60 Million high school stadium in Allen

[UNTstormchaser]

http://www.kvue.com/...-165007846.html

I'm just curious to get all your opinions on this. I'm not from the area, but I do understand Texas' obsession with high school football. But I think this goes a bit too far. I don't know much about the Allen ISD, except that the high school is massive (my suitemate last year graduated from Allen, he said the graduating class was something like 2,000). But even if the school has vast academic resources and is not starving for money, imagine the amount of good things that could come of investing $60 million in academics. I mean, if you needed a bigger stadium (which they didn't, the old one fit 14K apparently and this one fits 18K), you didn't need to spend $60 million on it. Spending $5 million on a high school field seems absurd to me. I understand that it houses a weight room, indoor golf practice place, etc., but this is HIGH SCHOOL. Did they really need to add a 75 foot HD video board?

I don't know, maybe I'm just a bit bitter. Rhode Island's public education is a joke right now, all the school systems are starving for money and they keep hiring superintendents that command $250K salaries. The school I graduated from was one of the nicer public schools in the state, and one of the largest, but even we struggled to buy new textbooks, especially for AP classes, and hire/retain good teachers. Luckily due to a couple of federal grants we won, we were able to upgrade and expand the campus, which was fantastic, and put in a state of the art music lab.But, the political system in the education dept. was corrupt. They cut trade classes, like woodshop and autoshop. And they're cutting art and music programs throughout the department. Yet they had enough money to give the ALP* kids all iPads. So, maybe I'm just bitter, and unaware of how well the public education system in Texas is actually doing.

Thoughts on this everyone? I guess one other thing to worry about is if other school systems try to follow suit or even outdo this. This could be the opening of a dangerous Pandora's Box.

*ALP: Assisted Learning Program. Essentially this was a group of about 15 kids who were chronic trouble makers that should actually have been removed from the school, but the state had no where to put them, and had to keep them somewhere. So what the school decided to do was create an alternative program for them, where they'd learn in isolation from the rest of the student population, but take Phys. Ed. and lunch with the rest of the students. The program was designed to "help" (cater to) these kids, so they're allowed to have major temper tantrums (throw desks, swear, walk out of class, etc.) without repercussions, because they have "home problems" (note: I live in a nice suburb. they may damn well have home problems but the way they act you'd think they grew up homeless in the Bronx). Essentially, they're allowed to do whatever the hell they want and as long as they do some work, they graduate in 4 years. One of the kids assaulted a dude with a bat last summer, and almost killed him, and was on trial on and off throughout the year, and he's allowed to walk free throughout the school. And yes, these are the kids they decided to buy iPads for, they were allowed to use them as long as they behave well. They bought 15 iPads for these kids, instead of buying new AP textbooks. Great school system, eh?

Edited August 5, 2012 by UNTstormchaser

[Greenrex]

They were proud to point out that no state funds were used. They didn't however, mention the use of prudent judgement.

[UNTstormchaser]

They were proud to point out that no state funds were used. They didn't however, mention the use of prudent judgement.

I'm glad that at least no state funds were used, but it's sad that we live in a society where one can raise $60 million for high school sports in one town, and we can't raise $60 million for education.

And you people wonder why the Asians are beating us! GAH! (obvious sarcasm is obvious)

Edited August 5, 2012 by UNTstormchaser

[emmitt01]

Im always amused by the "That money cold have gone to education" argument. It assumes they had $60 million sitting around and chose to spend it on football instead of calculators and textbooks. Many blowhard NT students made this same "either or" argument when the stadium was built. If the people of Allen want to spend their money on high school football that's their perogative. After the pages upon pages of the Chick-fil-A thread surely nobody can disparage where someone chooses to put their money.

And no, I'm not saying you're a blowhard. Not unless you are secretly Andy Hogue.

[UNTstormchaser]

Im always amused by the "That money cold have gone to education" argument. It assumes they had $60 million sitting around and chose to spend it on football instead of calculators and textbooks. Many blowhard NT students made this same "either or" argument when the stadium was built. If the people of Allen want to spend their money on high school football that's their perogative. After the pages upon pages of the Chick-fil-A thread surely nobody can disparage where someone chooses to put their money.

And no, I'm not saying you're a blowhard. Not unless you are secretly Andy Hogue.

I'm not assuming they had $60 million just lying around, nor am I arguing that the money should go to education. I'm pointing out how sad it is that, as a society, we can justify spending that insane amount of money on high school football. They got $60 million somewhere, I believe it was in bonds. I'm just kind of disturbed at the fact that $60 million can be spent on something so unimportant. It isn't like they didn't have a stadium that seated a large amount of people already. If they had some low-rate joke of a stadium for a Texas 5A team that only seated 500 people and was falling apart, then building one would be important (not $60 million important though). But they had a stadium that sat 14K people. If it's old, renovate it. Spend a couple million on it to pretty it up. You don't need to build a 18K capacity stadium with a 75 foot HD video scoreboard. Christ, this stadium is nicer than Texas State's.

Anyone that used that argument at UNT is either high or an ignoramus. The situation is totally different, as I'm sure you understand. UNT is a tier 2 public research university with 36,000 students, and a division 1 football team that gives out scholarships to athletes. Allen is a public high school. The fact that they spent 2/3 the amount we did on a new stadium is disturbing.

[GreenMachine]

I'm not assuming they had $60 million just lying around, nor am I arguing that the money should go to education. I'm pointing out how sad it is that, as a society, we can justify spending that insane amount of money on high school football. They got $60 million somewhere, I believe it was in bonds. I'm just kind of disturbed at the fact that $60 million can be spent on something so unimportant. It isn't like they didn't have a stadium that seated a large amount of people already. If they had some low-rate joke of a stadium for a Texas 5A team that only seated 500 people and was falling apart, then building one would be important (not $60 million important though). But they had a stadium that sat 14K people. If it's old, renovate it. Spend a couple million on it to pretty it up. You don't need to build a 18K capacity stadium with a 75 foot HD video scoreboard. Christ, this stadium is nicer than Texas State's.

Anyone that used that argument at UNT is either high or an ignoramus. The situation is totally different, as I'm sure you understand. UNT is a tier 2 public research university with 36,000 students, and a division 1 football team that gives out scholarships to athletes. Allen is a public high school. The fact that they spent 2/3 the amount we did on a new stadium is disturbing.

You might think it's unimportant and maybe it is, I don't have an opinion one way or the other. However, the town of Allen voted for a total bond package of $180M (somebody correct me if I'm wrong) and the money that wasn't going to the football stadium was going to academics. So to the people that will actually be paying the bonds off, it was important enought to vote for the bond package.

[UNTcrazy727]

Their stadium was pretty bad. Not horrible, but they needed to upgrade to fit the kind of program they have in Allen. Is $60 million excessive? Yes, but the football program brings in a lot of money and publicity for the school and town so they feel it's justified.

[UNTstormchaser]

You might think it's unimportant and maybe it is, I don't have an opinion one way or the other. However, the town of Allen voted for a total bond package of $180M (somebody correct me if I'm wrong) and the money that wasn't going to the football stadium was going to academics. So to the people that will actually be paying the bonds off, it was important enought to vote for the bond package.

If that's the case than that makes this a lot better. But, at the same time, even cutting the cost in half to make it a still crazy $30 million, that's a lot of extra money going to more important things.

Their stadium was pretty bad. Not horrible, but they needed to upgrade to fit the kind of program they have in Allen. Is $60 million excessive? Yes, but the football program brings in a lot of money and publicity for the school and town so they feel it's justified.

I really hope they did some legitimate research to see if they can get a return on their investment. Even if they were far and away the best 5A program in the state that dominated yearly, publicity with a public high school program isn't going to do so much. I don't know, I guess I just kind of find it a silly waste. Did they really need an indoor golf practice facility? Did they need to add a 75 foot HD scoreboard? It just seems so superficial for a high school team. This blows most D2 college teams' stadiums out of the water.

[oldguystudent]

Never, ever, under any circumstances criticize spending or prioritization on sports in the state of Texas. Especially if it's football, but even of it's 5U girls' teeball.

I don't understand it, I often don't agree with it, but I know better than to publicly criticize it or, horror of egregious horrors, oppose it.

[UNTstormchaser]

Never, ever, under any circumstances criticize spending or prioritization on sports in the state of Texas. Especially if it's football, but even of it's 5U girls' teeball.

I don't understand it, I often don't agree with it, but I know better than to publicly criticize it or, horror of egregious horrors, oppose it.

Haha, point taken.

[DoubleEagle]

I live in Allen and this issue boils down to two points:

1. Did Allen need a new football stadium?

Yes. As much as any high school needs a new stadium Allen was desperately in need. The old stadium (1976) had 7,200 permanent seats and temporary seating to bring the total to 14,000. Attendance at most games was standing room only. There were 900 parking spaces, 27 individual restroom facilities and 6 concession lines to accommodate these crowds.

The new stadium will provide 18,000 seats, 1500 parking spaces, 242 individual restroom facilities and 42 concession lines to accommodate 8,000 season ticket holders, a 700+ person band and the second largest student body in the state (5,300). The opening game against Southlake Carroll will be standing room only.

2. Did Allen spend too much on the new stadium?

I don't know. The stadium will drive incremental economic activity in the form of higher attendance as well as additional events we have already secured (a few non 5A regular season football games, likely a few November playoff games, the Tom Landry Classic beginning in 2013 and the NFL Network's "Texas vs. the Nation" all star game). The all star game is estimated to bring in $750K-$1M in annual economic impact. Additionally, ten local businesses have signed on as sponsors including Market Street, MetroPCS, Texas Health, Dr. Pepper, Chick-fil-A and Dickey's.

Ultimately, the taxpayers of Allen decided this facility was a worthwhile investment for the community as well as a reward for the outstanding Allen Athletic program. Time will tell.

[UNTstormchaser]

I live in Allen and this issue boils down to two points:

1. Did Allen need a new football stadium?

Yes. As much as any high school needs a new stadium Allen was desperately in need. The old stadium (1976) had 7,200 permanent seats and temporary seating to bring the total to 14,000. Attendance at most games was standing room only. There were 900 parking spaces, 27 individual restroom facilities and 6 concession lines to accommodate these crowds.

The new stadium will provide 18,000 seats, 1500 parking spaces, 242 individual restroom facilities and 42 concession lines to accommodate 8,000 season ticket holders, a 700+ person band and the second largest student body in the state (5,300). The opening game against Southlake Carroll will be standing room only.

2. Did Allen spend too much on the new stadium?

I don't know. The stadium will drive incremental economic activity in the form of higher attendance as well as additional events we have already secured (a few non 5A regular season football games, likely a few November playoff games, the Tom Landry Classic beginning in 2013 and the NFL Network's "Texas vs. the Nation" all star game). The all star game is estimated to bring in $750K-$1M in annual economic impact. Additionally, ten local businesses have signed on as sponsors including Market Street, MetroPCS, Texas Health, Dr. Pepper, Chick-fil-A and Dickey's.

Ultimately, the taxpayers of Allen decided this facility was a worthwhile investment for the community as well as a reward for the outstanding Allen Athletic program. Time will tell.

Glad to hear an insider's viewpoint and get some good information. Since the venue is going to be used for so much more, then maybe it will be a worthwhile investment.

[yyz28]

I'm glad that at least no state funds were used, but it's sad that we live in a society where one can raise $60 million for high school sports in one town, and we can't raise $60 million for education.

And you people wonder why the Asians are beating us! GAH! (obvious sarcasm is obvious)

It certainly isn't due to a lack of funding. Despite being 27th world wide in math, we're number one in per student spending on education. The education issue we have in this country has little to do with funding or football stadiums and everything to do with a lack of focus at home on education and far too many administrative layers of fat between the taxpayer and the student.

[UNTstormchaser]

It certainly isn't due to a lack of funding. Despite being 27th world wide in math, we're number one in per student spending on education. The education issue we have in this country has little to do with funding or football stadiums and everything to do with a lack of focus at home on education and far too many administrative layers of fat between the taxpayer and the student.

I definitely don't disagree with that. I think problem #1 is how our modern culture causes kids to have a negative outlook on education, but I agree that a lack of focus at home is a problem. I also view funding going to the wrong areas (superintendent salary...) as a major issues. Invest in the teachers, the kids will learn.

[Cooley]

http://www.tmdailypost.com/article/sports/carthage-boast-largest-high-school-stadium-jumbotron

[UNTstormchaser]

http://www.tmdailypo...adium-jumbotron

Okay, now that's just idiotic. I was afraid that this would turn into a pissing contest, and it looks like the first weiner has been exposed.

I didn't understand the point of having an HD videoboard at the new Allen stadium, even though they're going to have a slew of other games played there. I don't agree with spending $60 million on that stadium, but at least it has been shown that they needed a new one, and that it is going to help in some ways (though something 1/3 the price would have sufficed), but Carthage adding a videoboard just for the fun of it is pretty stupid. Like one of the people said in the article, it's about pleasing the adults, not about the kids.

[Stix]

Whoa.

http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/collin/Cracks-force-closure-of-Allens-60M-stadium--247645591.html

[Green P1]

Sad trombone.

[Harry]

Wow that's bad!

[BeanCounterGrad'03]

Better call All Pro Foundation Repair

[UNT90]

The AD better get true water hose out and start watering Apogee.

Pray for rain, everybody. And lots of it.

[Green P1]

The AD better get true water hose out and start watering Apogee.

Pray for rain, everybody. And lots of it.

"The school district says it first noticed the cracks before the stadium even opened."

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

I guess the construction quality wasn't what it was cracked up to be.

[Army of Dad]

Too big to fail?

[Coffee and TV]

HAHAHAHA foundation problems? Cedar Hill masterrace.