The Chick-Fil-A controversy

[yyz28]

Damn, this stopped being a debate or discussion and started being a personal pissing contest. I can't imagine how anyone has allowed this to get so personal?

[UNTstormchaser]

Damn, this stopped being a debate or discussion and started being a personal pissing contest. I can't imagine how anyone has allowed this to get so personal?

It got personal when he messaged me and threatened me haha. But, I'm not concerned about it. I just find it incredibly humorous.

[GreenMachine]

I did? Did we discuss it, and if so how did it go? I hope we ended up sharing beers and stories afterward.

This is the best part about being a guy and dissagreements. At least it was in HS and college. You may kick my ass but odds are later we're gonna end up respecting each other and throwing down some brews later.

Rick

No, I can't remember what we disagreed about but it was a civil exchange. We never met up for beers at a tailgate but we tried to meet. It was no big deal then and was probably 5 years ago.I respected your opinion then and I still do today.

[MeanGreenTexan]

I did call you a pussy, I think you are a pussy. But I never mentioned a fight, I said we could discuss our difference. FFR got pissed at me a long time ago and offered to discuss our differences at a tailgate, I never once thought he was threatening me. Sorry if you don't like that I don't agree with you, I do think you a brash little prick.

I don't mean to step in here and be GMG.com neighborhood watchdog, but I cannot see how this does not merit some sort of ban.

Ridiculous.

You've been a real instigator lately.

[UNTstormchaser]

I did call you a pussy, I think you are a pussy. But I never mentioned a fight, I said we could discuss our difference. FFR got pissed at me a long time ago and offered to discuss our differences at a tailgate, I never once thought he was threatening me. Sorry if you don't like that I don't agree with you, I do think you a brash little prick.

Well, there's a difference between literally meaning discussion and using the word to mean fight. When one says discuss in a peaceful conversation or disagreement, there's no worries. But, let me quote what you said to me, unprovoked (as in I did not message you), in a message entitled FU. And I quote, word for word:

"We can discuss you calling me a douchebag at a tailgate if you would like you fat mother fucker."

That doesn't sound like an invitation to a discussion. That sounds like an invitation to throw down at a tailgate after you've had a few beers.

As for the name calling, you don't know me personally. You have no idea whether or not I'm fat, or thin. A pussy, or a tough ass thug. You have no clue whether I grew up on the streets and fended for myself, or if I grew up as Bill Gates' nephew with a hot maid wiping my ass for me. You have absolutely no idea who I am, so how can you legitimately think you can offend me by calling me names? You're 43 years old, it's time to stop trying to prove yourself to everyone and it's time to grow up. The pissing contest ended 20 years ago.

Edited August 1, 2012 by UNTstormchaser

[UNTstormchaser]

I don't mean to step in here and be GMG.com neighborhood watchdog, but I cannot see how this does not merit some sort of ban.

Ridiculous.

You've been a real instigator lately.

Considering the other things he's said to me and his douchebaggery earlier in this thread, I couldn't agree more.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

That's actually the plan. Despite my atheism, I'd like to have a sound knowledge of the Bible, the Qur'an, etc. I have the Confucian Analects saved in a word document on my computer (although that's because I love Confucian philosophy, not because I want to learn it in order to refute it). I figure that if I am going to disagree with and not believe in something, I should know 100% about what it is. I'm getting there, but it's a long process.

That's the best way to do it. Get an Archeological Study Bible because you seem like a student of history and culture as well. Those do a good job of putting the events as they happened into the context of the time in which they occured.

I'd say grab an Archeological Study Bible first, if you're just wading into learning the Bible and want to know about the time and place element within which events occurred: http://www.amazon.com/NIV-Archaeological-Study-Bible-Illustrated/dp/031092605X . Then, if you find the book interesting enough to want to know the nuanced language differences, hit up a Hebrew/Greek Key Word Study: http://www.amazon.com/Hebrew-Greek-Word-Study-Bible-Bibles/dp/0899577555 .

If you're into language, there also exist Hebrew/Greek Key Word study Bibles. Old Testament was written in Hebrew; New Testament in Greek. Both were translated into German, then English...so, you've got some words in English that may have three or four meanings in the original language. Hebrew/Greek give the original meaning.

For example, the original Hebrew and Greek texts have three different words for what we translate as "Love." And, so, while you may read the word "Love" in an English language Bible, there is a context to it linguistically.

I gave my Archeological Study Bible to a fellow law student years ago. If you seriously want to study the language differences, I'l give you my Hebrew/Greek. I've gotten pretty much all out of it I can. I use those type of Study Bibles are references. But, they are great for beginning students.

I think a lot of misunderstanding in the Bible - like the gal in the video has - stems from people not really knowing the context of what they are reading. If you know nothing of the Bible and just pick one up, it's not easy reading. The context is virtually lost on you. It's easy to get bogged down in some parts, and fed up with others. And, since the book isn't exactly in chronological order, you have to have something to keep your sense of time and place right. Archeological Study Bible does a good job of that.

Even if you never believe in God or Christ, you'll have a good background about what they are all about with those two types of Study Bible.

Good luck.

[UNTstormchaser]

I think a lot of misunderstanding in the Bible - like the gal in the video has - stems from people not really knowing the context of what they are reading. If you know nothing of the Bible and just pick one up, it's not easy reading. The context is virtually lost on you. It's easy to get bogged down in some parts, and fed up with others. And, since the book isn't exactly in chronological order, you have to have something to keep your sense of time and place right. Archeological Study Bible does a good job of that.

Even if you never believe in God or Christ, you'll have a good background about what they are all about with those two types of Study Bible.

Good luck.

Thanks for the advice and such. I agree that misunderstanding definitely comes from a lack of context. Unfortunately for all sides on the debate of religion, people who deem themselves worthy of trying to make themselves the face of what they stand for (on a small scale, someone posting a video on youtube/on a large scale, someone like the Westboro Baptist Curch, or the group American Atheists, who suck), are typically the ones who really don't have any clue about what they're standing against, and are completely unqualified for such a position, and in turn just hurt their cause. This girl making a video with a lack of understanding of the bible is in no position to actually make a video such as this one, and it isn't going to help anything. The WBC gives a terrible name to Christianity with their extremist ideas and immoral practices. American Atheists are a bunch of idiots who think that an angry billboard campaign directed towards Christians who question their faith is going to actually make them look any better than what they paint their opposition as. Oh well, people lack brains. I've come to accept that fact.

[Mean Green 93-98]

Both were translated into German, then English.

I'm not sure I follow you there, Fake. Most English translations have been done directly from the Greek and Hebrew (and mostly Aramaic in Daniel) into English.

If you're talking about the order in which the Bible was translated into other languages, Latin came long before German.

[Green P1]

Everyone who's posted in or viewed this thread should be banned until September.

[UNTcrazy727]

It's summer man! I don't have to worry about classes until 4 weeks from today. I don't like that you're insinuating naivety is the cause for my views, but I'm not going to start a war over that. I've worked part time while going to school full time, been a rock for my father when it should be the other way around, have a car payment, and have spent all 19 of my years in poverty. I'm young, but not stupid I'm not forcing any views, this is an open discussion and any and all viewpoints are welcome. That's America for ya my friend. Oh and, I'm attempting to cut down on the length. Any of my posts in any other topic have been and will be much shorter; I have a hard time being brief when it comes to civil rights. Perhaps Geography is the wrong major and I should become a writer haha.

I think you need a girlfriend. They're good at taking up your time...and money

[Green Mean]

Can't we all just effing love each other and get along regardless of color, race, religion, sexual orientation etc?

[Green Lantern]

Everyone who's posted in or viewed this thread should be banned until September.

Admit it. You're just angling for the return of the "Green P1 Memorial Forum".

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

This whole deal is stupid.. [ so much for the freedom of speech.]

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Thanks for the advice and such. I agree that misunderstanding definitely comes from a lack of context. Unfortunately for all sides on the debate of religion, people who deem themselves worthy of trying to make themselves the face of what they stand for (on a small scale, someone posting a video on youtube/on a large scale, someone like the Westboro Baptist Curch, or the group American Atheists, who suck), are typically the ones who really don't have any clue about what they're standing against, and are completely unqualified for such a position, and in turn just hurt their cause. This girl making a video with a lack of understanding of the bible is in no position to actually make a video such as this one, and it isn't going to help anything. The WBC gives a terrible name to Christianity with their extremist ideas and immoral practices. American Atheists are a bunch of idiots who think that an angry billboard campaign directed towards Christians who question their faith is going to actually make them look any better than what they paint their opposition as. Oh well, people lack brains. I've come to accept that fact.

Right. And, so, with some Biblical knowledge, you can easily identify the Westboro Baptist folk as a cult, not a group of Chrisitians.

You also see this in modern day megachurches. Christ had no true "home" place where he preached every week. As a Jew, he went to the temple. He never established that one formal meeting place was to be constructed. He did drive those trying to profit off of the temple activities out of it.

Note that Paul did not have a "home congreagation" either. Although he wrote letters to certain "churches" in different cities, it was understood, I think, that they were meeting in each other's home.

Beginning with Catholicism and continuing today in American Evangelism, there is a tendency to take money given to a church and construct buildings replete with gymnasiums and coffee shops, as well as bookstores peddling the minister/pastor/reverends' books/tapes/CDs, etc.

You won't find reference to Jesus or Paul, the carriers of the gospel to the Jews and Gentiles respectively, to collecting money to build anything, or to profit off of their teachings. Sadly, people are misled. God doesn't need money or buildings.

I encourage people to look at their church's budget, as most make them available (usually along with a sermon about giving, sometime in December or January). If the majority is going into facilities (or, the financing of facilities), you probably are at a church whose focus is not where it should be.

If the teachings of Jesus and Paul are to be considered important and worthy of following, then money given to any particular "church" is to be used to: take care of the widowed and orphaned, feed and clothe the poor, minister to the fallen.

The Dallas area has many megachurches in the area led by pastors and such who own jets, drive expensive luxury cars, and live in huge homes. You wonder what Jesus thinks when you read this passage regarding a potential disciple, from Matthew 8:18-20:

¹⁸ When Jesus saw the crowd around him, he gave orders to cross to the other side of the lake. ¹⁹ Then a teacher of the law came to him and said, “Teacher, I will follow you wherever you go.”

²⁰ Jesus replied, “Foxes have dens and birds have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head.”

The girl in the video supports gay marriage. But, it wasn't enough for her to just say so. She wanted to rub Christians' noses in it. The details of first followers of Christ are in the Bible, but not in part she chose to quote.

Edited August 1, 2012 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

[Green2012]

Can't we all just effing love each other and get along regardless of color, race, religion, sexual orientation etc?

When times are tough what's better than discussing if moist breasts and tender legs should be consumed or not? Dark or white?

[UNTstormchaser]

Can't we all just effing love each other and get along regardless of color, race, religion, sexual orientation etc?

That's all I want too! The world would be so wonderful if that was the case.

Right. And, so, with some Biblical knowledge, you can easily identify the Westboro Baptist folk as a cult, not a group of Chrisitians.

You also see this in modern day megachurches. Christ had no true "home" place where he preached every week. As a Jew, he went to the temple. He never established that one formal meeting place was to be constructed. He did drive those trying to profit off of the temple activities out of it.

Note that Paul did not have a "home congreagation" either. Although he wrote letters to certain "churches" in different cities, it was understood, I think, that they were meeting in each other's home.

Beginning with Catholicism and continuing today in American Evangelism, there is a tendency to take money given to a church and construct buildings replete with gymnasiums and coffee shops, as well as bookstores peddling the minister/pastor/reverends' books/tapes/CDs, etc.

You won't find reference to Jesus or Paul, the carriers of the gospel to the Jews and Gentiles respectively, to collecting money to build anything, or to profit off of their teachings. Sadly, people are misled. God doesn't need money or buildings.

I encourage people to look at their church's budget, as most make them available (usually along with a sermon about giving, sometime in December or January). If the majority is going into facilities (or, the financing of facilities), you probably are at a church whose focus is not where it should be.

If the teachings of Jesus and Paul are to be considered important and worthy of following, then money given to any particular "church" is to be used to: take care of the widowed and orphaned, feed and clothe the poor, minister to the fallen.

The Dallas area has many megachurches in the area led by pastors and such who own jets, drive expensive luxury cars, and live in huge homes. You wonder what Jesus thinks when you read this passage regarding a potential disciple, from Matthew 8:18-20:

¹⁸ When Jesus saw the crowd around him, he gave orders to cross to the other side of the lake. ¹⁹ Then a teacher of the law came to him and said, “Teacher, I will follow you wherever you go.”

²⁰ Jesus replied, “Foxes have dens and birds have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head.”

The girl in the video supports gay marriage. But, it wasn't enough for her to just say so. She wanted to rub Christians' noses in it. The details of first followers of Christ are in the Bible, but not in part she chose to quote.

Glad to come across someone who feels the same way about megachurches that I do. They're sick, and if by chance I am 100% wrong in my beliefs and Christianity is the correct religion, then I look forward to them burning in hell for profiting off of something that is supposed to be about peace and love, not greed and bigotry.

[FirefightnRick]

I look forward to them burning in hell for.....

Bud, stop while you still can.

Rick

[cwb]

That's all I want too! The world would be so wonderful if that was the case.

Glad to come across someone who feels the same way about megachurches that I do. They're sick, and if by chance I am 100% wrong in my beliefs and Christianity is the correct religion, then I look forward to them burning in hell for profiting off of something that is supposed to be about peace and love, not greed and bigotry.

Oh man. I respect your beliefs or lack thereof, it is your right, but did you just reference hell? I think that you may be agnostic and not atheist. I am also not happy with you sucking me in on a pms (political, moral, social ) discussion. I should have more self control but you caught me after a few of satan's fire water concoctions. I will regret posting in the am.

[Andrew]

I like the fake Lonnie finch... Why van we not have more psosts like this one to get people talking! This is America gosh darn it!!!

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Glad to come across someone who feels the same way about megachurches that I do. They're sick, and if by chance I am 100% wrong in my beliefs and Christianity is the correct religion, then I look forward to them burning in hell for profiting off of something that is supposed to be about peace and love, not greed and bigotry.

Megachurches are dangerous because they lie about Christ, and they prey upon people's emotions for money. Neither Jesus nor Paul ever solicited funds as a means to:

(1) Build more facilities (or, any facilities, for that matter)

(2) Promise that prayers would be answered

(3) Ensure future enrichment

If there truly is an Antichrist, it will come in the form of a "church." This is the only way those inclined to believe in God can be misled. And, as you can readily see from "Pay for prayer" and "Pay for prosperity" television evangelists, many are misled daily.

This is part of the reason I disagree with churches being fully tax-exempt. I believe that a church must show that the majority of the their tithes and donations are going towards direct benefit to the community before their exemption can be claimed.

For instance, churches should show that the money is being given to food pantries, homeless shelters, abuse shelters, and the like. If not, then a church is no more than a business.

Our commercial insurance agency insures churches of all sizes. And, trust me, some of the megachurches we've visited and insured are run no differently than corporations.

To me, it's the perfect con for con artists - solicit funds by preying on the emotionally weak, and receiving the funds tax-free because church status can be claimed.

Many conservatives will disagree with me on this. But, honesty is honesty...and Jesus did say, "Render unto Caesar those things which are Caesar's...." in Matthew 22 when religious leaders tried to corner him on the tax question. In America, many churches forget - or, more likely, ignore - that Jesus was not about money.

Edited August 2, 2012 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

[UNTstormchaser]

Oh man. I respect your beliefs or lack thereof, it is your right, but did you just reference hell? I think that you may be agnostic and not atheist. I am also not happy with you sucking me in on a pms (political, moral, social ) discussion. I should have more self control but you caught me after a few of satan's fire water concoctions. I will regret posting in the am.

Don't regret, I'm not about to flame you haha. I did reference hell, and I am an atheist. I'm just not as stuck up as most atheists that put themselves in the public eye, and most are actually like me. I'm tolerant and open-minded. It is my personal belief that there is no God, and I don't completely understand how more people don't come to that logical conclusion. But, I also know that there is no way to definitively prove one way or another whether or not a God exists, so I'm not going to call someone an idiot for believing. My point in referencing hell was to demonstrate my absolute disgust with megachurches and the people who follow them. Nothing is any sicker than claiming the Christian title (or any religious title) in order to make a profit off of emotionally weak people. That Jaguar and private jet could feed a lot of people in this country and around the world...

Megachurches are dangerous because they lie about Christ, and they prey upon people's emotions for money. Neither Jesus nor Paul ever solicited funds as a means to:

(1) Build more facilities (or, any facilities, for that matter)

(2) Promise that prayers would be answered

(3) Ensure future enrichment

If there truly is an Antichrist, it will come in the form of a "church." This is the only way those inclined to believe in God can be misled. And, as you can readily see from "Pay for prayer" and "Pay for prosperity" television evangelists, many are misled daily.

This is part of the reason I disagree with churches being fully tax-exempt. I believe that a church must show that the majority of the their tithes and donations are going towards direct benefit to the community before their exemption can be claims.

For instance, churches should show that the money is being given to food pantries, homeless shelters, abuse shelters, and the like. If not, then a church is no more than a business.

Our commercial insurance agency insures churches of all sizes. And, trust me, some of the megachurches we've visited and insured are run no differently than corporations.

To me, it's the perfect con for con artists - solicit funds by preying on the emotionally weak, and receiving the funds tax-free because church status can be claimed.

Many conservatives will disagree with me on this. But, honesty is honesty...and Jesus did say, "Render unto Caesar those things which are Caesar's...." in Matthew 22 when religious leaders tried to corner him on the tax question. In America, many church forget - or, more likely, ignore - that Jesus was not about money.

While I may disagree with your selective use of science, I can't deny how logical and correct you are when it comes to Christianity. It's great to come across someone who actually uses the religion in a 100% positive way. Kudos to you, TFLF. If more Christians were like you, the world would be a lot nicer of a place.

[KRAM1]

If only some folks on the board would take their own advice.

[UNTstormchaser]

If only some folks on the board would take their own advice.

I know you're referring to me. It's so ironic how people supporting CFA claim that everything is okay because of free speech, but I'm not allowed to voice my different opinion and disagree with people. Some free speech. Just because I disagree with someone's views doesn't mean I do not tolerate them.

[mattmartin817]

Has something happened to UNT90? I feel like he should be jumping in on this.