Would you sign with Penn State?

[emmitt01]

I know some have said that that penalties aren't enough. I thought the exact same thing until I started thinking about what all they are being hit with and what it will cost them. In my estimation this is FAR worse than shutting down the program for a year. If you are a potential Penn State recruit this is what you have to be able to stomach before you sign:

1)You won't play in a bowl game until at least your senior year IF you redshirt your first year on campus. To be able to compete Penn State may expect you to play right away. That means NO bowl games in your collegiate career.

2)Even if you go undefeated and are eligible for the Big Ten title game...you won't be playing in it until your senior year (again, IF you redshirt). So they flat out cannot promise you the chance to play for national titles.

3)This year you'll be one of 75 scholarship athletes. Within a few seasons you'll be one of 65. Try competing in the Big Ten with that.

4)Many of the guys you thought you'd be signing with and playing with can now walk out the door freely...and the schools they're going to will get special allowances to take them in. That means that the #3 RB, TE, QB, OL, DL, etc players who might have had a wandering eye before can now bolt for more PT elsewhere immediately. And that's IF the #1 and #2 guys still want to stick around.

5)Penn State will receive zero dollars for the next three years from Big Ten bowl revenue.

6)Sixty million dollars may be a "drop in the bucket" but it is still sixty million dollars Penn State has to make up somehow. I don't care how rich your alums are, this isn't a check they were just hoping to write.

7)The university has fully accepted the penalties. You are now a player at a school that readily admits it needed to be hammered...and hammered hard...because it couldn't keep its house in order.

I foresee it taking up to a decade for Penn State to regain any footing in the national landscape.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

(8) Other schools' recruiters will be reminding you of (1) - (7) throughout your recruiting process.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

no... not if another option was on the table.

[THOR]

football, no...i'd assume i had other options for this year...next year or the year after, maybe...

if i was a nonfootball player, then yes i would sign there (to play tennis/bball/soccer). the school is more than football if you aren't a football player.

Edited July 23, 2012 by THOR

[UNT90]

Yes.

Only because I don't think anyone else would offer a 40 something.... TE??... a scholarship.

[emmitt01]

From the CUSA board. I hadn't even thought of it this way, this could be crippling.

"Post: #116RE: Official Penn State Sancations/Presser Thread

(Today 10:11 AM)99Tiger Wrote:

(Today 08:43 AM)NBPirate Wrote:

I dont care what anyone says.... 20 schollies a year will kill them... its 90 over 4 years.... thats 3 classes worth on top of the mass transfers that will occur.... Theyre done for 10-15 years

It's not 20 scholarships lost each year, it's 10. It's 40 over 4 years......

That's correct - It's a loss of 10 schollies per year for 4 years but it's not that clean. Marshall lost 5 schollies per year for 4 years and at the end in 2005, we only had 51 scholarship players. Not only do you lose the schollies, you have a maximum roster (65 scholarships) and you can't replace your attrition. Last year was the first year Marshall played with a full roster since 2001 - Ten years of penalties and our record and program has suffered.

Attrition, especially with the offer by the NCAA for players to transfer without losing a year could plummet PSU to under 60 schollies the FIRST year if a third of the team leaves. The school is not allowed to replace those lost. I wouldn't be surprised if PSU has less than 40 scholarship players in the end and like us, filling the rest of their roster with walk-ons.

It took Miami FL 5 years to rebound from the loss of 5 scholarships for two years back in 1993. PSU will be still struggling in 2027, and will become accustomed to the cellar in most of those years.

This is a huge penalty and nothing comes close since the SMU death penalty."

[NT03]

Yes.

It's stil DI football. It still has a lot of prestige. If I was a kid who had to choose between a FCS, Sunbelt,MAC,etc or Penn St , I'd still choose Penn State.

Something about playing for the team that everyone wants to hate or wants to see fail would intrigue me. At the end of the day you still get a great education & you still are going to be playing in front of packed houses vs the top competition

I also assume they will be out recruiting a lot of kids who can also earn academic ships & walk on.

[KRAM1]

It's a big "it depends" for me....would have to weigh my options if offerered...considering, of course, that most college players will go pro...in something other than football (as the ad goes). All said and done...Penn State offers a great education.

And, as usual, the innocent suffer the penalty...in this case the "innocent" are the coaches, players and fan who had absolutely ZERO to do with this whole tragedy.

Not saying Penn State did not deserve what it got for the cover up and for allowing those young people to be victims of sexual abuse...just saying that those left at Penn State on the team had zero to do with it...yet they suffer the penalty for others evil.

[emmitt01]

"I also assume they will be out recruiting a lot of kids who can also earn academic ships & walk on."

Can't do it...it's the Bear Bryant rule. NCAA bylaws specifically outline that any football player receiving aid is counted as a football scholarship. So, if you play football and basketball your scholarship comes from football. Same with academics. If the school gives you the money and you step foot on the football field you are 1of the 85 (or in PSU's case 1 of the 65 soon). No "Larry Brown workaround" in football.

Edited July 24, 2012 by emmitt01

[ValleyBoy]

This is a big hit on the PennSt football program. Having to compete with 2 less scholarship that a FCS football program. And they will be in worse off for players than a FCS program because a FCS football program can spread there 67 scholarships over more that just 67 players because they can give partial scholarships which PennSt will not be able to do since they can only give full scholarships.

[VideoEagle]

Would I go to PSU to play football? Not likely. But their are still a lot of kids who grew up PSU fans and who's parents are loyal alumni. And the degree from PSU is still worth a lot, especially to the kid who is good enough to play some at the D1 level but knows he isn't going to the NFL.

[rcade]

Would you sign with Penn State?

That depends on whether I got offers from programs with better potential like Idaho or Western Kentucky.

[NM Green]

My cousin got a scholly for Woman's Volleyball and I hate that all my Penn State souvenirs seem to have a bit of a tarnish, even though it doesn't say Penn State football on my shirt.

However, I would think that this program will still get a lot of attention and kids could truly participate in the rebuilding of a football power. I think there will be some that will draw to that, few but some. I also think there are some out there that will simply be rooting for PSU to come back one day and carve out a new legacy (a post JoPa,Sandusky legacy). I don't have an allegiance other than the cousin connection but I do feel for the fanbase and many innocent folks around that program that will suffer as a result those tragic individuals/decisions.

GMG

[buff64]

Another factor to remember is that kids now on a football scholarship can elect to stay at Penn State on a football scholarship even if they don't continue to play football. This could further reduce the actual number of scholarship players on the team.

[golfingomez]

if I wasn't look at going to school at one of the 5 major conferences, I would definitely consider Penn St. I would still get more exposure there than at a lower tier division... still be on TV, still be playing against top competition...

and I'm assuming I'd get at least one road game to Hawaii out of it...

[Stan R]

Another factor to remember is that kids now on a football scholarship can elect to stay at Penn State on a football scholarship even if they don't continue to play football. This could further reduce the actual number of scholarship players on the team.

I thought that was an interesting option given by the committee. I wonder if any players take this option.

[oldguystudent]

Yes.

Only because I don't think anyone else would offer a 40 something.... TE??... a scholarship.

UNT90 signs with Penn State. Aaaand now Penn State is passing is by.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Well, one thing's for sure - we're going to find out how deep this "We Are Penn State" crap really goes?

I suspect it will be like OU in the early 90s, i.e., a lot of denial within the fan base. OU fans couldn't wait to throw out Gary Gibbs for having the audacity to lose games while being collared with scholarship losses. When they threw him overboard, they really began the downward descent to three consecutive losing seasons, as well as a forgetful 5-5-1 with Howard Schnellenberger at the helm.

The problem for Penn State will be the same - everyone is happywhen you are winning. Start taking a loss here and there to the Iowa States of your football world, and those diehard fans become less rabid.

Again, it took OU 12 seasons to rebound back into national prominence from their two year bowl and scholarship sanctions. Penn State taking on four years? It's going to be brutal for them.

What I want to see is if whether they still continue to sell out games during those seasons. Will they abandon and stop selling out as happened at Oklahoma when many of their fans abandoned them in the 90s?

Also, will they say, "It doesn't matter that we've lost three seasons in a row to Indiana and Northwestern - we're playing with honor and dignity."

I think the whole Penn State aura was phony as a $3 bill. We'll see what happens when they face some on the field football adversity.

[keith]

I guess only time will tell. If these sanctions are as bad as they are being protrayed, would PSU be better off if they just shut the thing down for 4 years and started over from scratch? By all estimates that might be preferable to what they are about to go through over the next four years, right? Do they have that option? If they really analyzed the situation and determined that the current sanctions were actually worse than no football at all for 4 years, what would they do?

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

They do have that option. SMU gave themselves an exttra year over the one year "Death Penalty" the NCAA gave them.

I think the problem here is that Penn State didn't move quickly enough to offer their own sanctions. A huge start in that directions would have been to turn down their bowl invitation last year.

After reading the Freeh report, you start to wonder whether any of them thought anything at all would ever happen. It's as if they all believed they could play dumb and it would all go away. Paterno's family is in a gigantic state of denial.

I may be wrong, but I don't remember Penn State ever offering up their own sanctions as a way to show remorse - and, lessen the NCAA's actions - but, I could be wrong. If someone can find them, please post the link.

[Grant.UNT]

There is such a stigma attached to that school now. Hyundai makes some greeat looking, fuel efficient vehicles too, but I'm not driving one. The stigma is there. Will it ever go away? I'm not sure, but in the interim I would go to a school that not everyone is going to say "how do you feel about the scandal?". Nobody will say "you're a great person for going to Penn State", but they may say, "I can't believe you went there." Just avoid the whole situation all together.

[UNT90]

They do have that option. SMU gave themselves an exttra year over the one year "Death Penalty" the NCAA gave them.

I think the problem here is that Penn State didn't move quickly enough to offer their own sanctions. A huge start in that directions would have been to turn down their bowl invitation last year.

After reading the Freeh report, you start to wonder whether any of them thought anything at all would ever happen. It's as if they all believed they could play dumb and it would all go away. Paterno's family is in a gigantic state of denial.

I may be wrong, but I don't remember Penn State ever offering up their own sanctions as a way to show remorse - and, lessen the NCAA's actions - but, I could be wrong. If someone can find them, please post the link.

I posted the quote from am unnamed BOR member who was still in complete denial, even on the eve if the announcement of sanctions.

They will continue to play football, blame the NCAA and Sandusky for their plight, and idolize JoePa, claiming it was all Sadisky's fault.

Just read their fan board.

They have learned nothing from this and changing that culture can't and won't be done with a 4 year penalty.

I expect a record year for donations to Penn St athletics. I expect JoePa's statue to return in a couple of years, with a "healing" celebration scheduled at the statue unveiling,

Denial is the strongest human emotion.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Y'know everyone is asking students and the Paternos and such how they feel. It'd be interesting to see what the victimes feel about the sanctions.

In reality, part of the victims lives were taken away by Sandusky and his Penn State enablers. So, if Penn State football as their fans and alumni knew it is taken away from them, that's all fine with me.

Also, all the talk about "innocent players" and "innocent fans/students" is getting old. Why not focus on the young men who were lured as innocent, young boys by Sandusky?

Again, here is a case of innocence stolen from the boys, therefore...so be it if "innocents" in the name of a sport feel bad about the denigration of their pastime.

[Travis Scott]

I'm feeling that tons of players will end up leaving...especially the non-starters. I think it will be similar to SMU where basically a generation will need to be the gap between top players wanting to play football at Penn State again. There will certanily be those players, like the SMU ones after the death penalty, that will want the chance to play D-1 football for a major market program. But from a success and player recruitment stand-point, I bet it will take kids that are born after 2010 to be the next top recruiting class.

[Mean Green 93-98]

I'm feeling that tons of players will end up leaving...especially the non-starters.

The non-starters will be the starters. PSU may be down to their projected 3rd string by the time the season starts.