Checking in from Happy Valley

[Stan R]

. They will become a very bad joke... far worse than what SMU became.

Don't see this happening! They may be down for a few years (even this is debatable as fans will simply circle the wagons now), but sometime after the initial 4-6 years they will be back in the top 40 teams in the country with relatively little impact. As others have said, there is far too much $$$ involved at PSU for this not to happen. SMU was a small private school with fair weather fans in Dallas unaffiliated with the school. PSU is far from that with a huge alumni and loyal (read: rabid) fanbase.

[VideoEagle]

If they wanted to send a message, they would have discontinued football for one year.

This was done way quick and without a full investigation. Smacks of the NCAA just wanting this to go away.

It won't.

They used the PSU commissioned Freeh report. Over a dozen investigators, over 450 interviews and over 1 million documents examined is a pretty full investigation.

[TIgreen01]

SMU changed all their entrance requirements for football players after receiving the DP, correct? That, more than anything else, is what kept them down for such a prolonged period of time. They've shown that in just the past 4 years that they have more than enough monied alums to kick the program back into competitiveness--but they needed the administration to allow them to recruit on equal footing to their competition.

This is a stiff punishment for PSU, but they will not be down as long as SMU was b/c they are not likely going to in act the same kind of internal controls/handicaps that SMU's admin did.

[SilverEagle]

At the presser, the NCAA guy was clear this was NOT a regular enforcement hearing. It's nothing like the SMU situation. The overall NCAA board and the Division 1 board were unanimous in the need to punish and correct PSU. If there had been a death penalty there still would have been additional punishments like the fine.

SMU hurt themselves more that the death penalty in their efforts to change their culture. And say what you will about SMU, they are certainly cleaner than they were - no more hundred dollars bills with the coaches phone number pined to high school buliten boards.

Repeatedly during the presser the NCAA talked about PSU cleaning up their culture and the need for other schools to examine their own. The NCAA is sending in an inspector quarterly to check PSUs progress on cleaning up the culture. First you clean up, then you rebuild.

And just what "culture" is the NCAA talking about? Penn State has always projected a squeaky-clean (complete with the most boring uni's in the NCAA) program led by a grandfatherly figure, who cared for his boys more than just about any coach in NCAA history. As far as a "culture" goes, that's pretty much what the NCAA would like to see at every University in the nation.

So is the NCAA talking about the culture of "cover up?". If so, then that pretty much exists at most big time programs. And they had better increase their compliance staff by about 10X.....or more.

Come to think of it, why don't they make PSU pay additional fines for 10 years to the NCAA for the purpose of hiring more compliance staff.

Edited July 23, 2012 by SilverEagle

[untjim1995]

I think the Freeh Report was basically the NCAA's investigation here. There was so litte to argue here. There will not be a time where Penn State will get away with anything again. I will say this about the death penalty and SMU. I think a death penalty for a place like Penn State would have been "manageable" for them--assuming it was just one year and there would have been the fine still. Even if the bowl ban was for two years and they got no TV, it would have been manageable for them to get back to being a prominent national team. I'm not sure that the penalties levied today aren't more stiff than a death penalty like the one SMU got. Remember, SMU go the death penalty because of rampant and continuous cheating (7 times in a 14 year span, IIRC). When they got the death penalty, SMU added a year to it themselves, then basically came back as a walk-on program. Then, the SMU administration went so far the other direction to avoid any connection to those days of old that they basically made it impossible to recruit and win over there. Penn State would never have made it that hard to recruit and admit football players after a death penalty--I think they would've been able to bounce back faster than SMU did and I am not sure if the death penalty here wouldn't have made it easier on Penn State. No matter what, though, Penn State will not compete for a Big Ten title for many, many years. Indiana, Northwestern, Minnesota, and Illinois are all going to have a new whipping boy. And I cannot even imagine what the Ohio State, Michigan, Michigna State, Wisconsin, Nebraska, and Iowa scores are going to look like for the next decade. Penn State will load up with MAC and SBC schools in OOC going forward just to get a few wins, but getting more than one B1G win in a season will be very surprising to me in the course of the next 5+ years. Hello B1G basement!!

Edited July 23, 2012 by untjim1995

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Wow, Big 10 basically did nothing. Biggest "blow" was loss of Penn State's cut of Big Ten bowl revenue for 4 years to children's charities. That should amount to something like $13 million according to estimates.

$13 million is a lot of money, folks.

The amount of money they will lose overall can't be estimate yet. Just from was we know today, $73 million. But, as the losses start mounting, season after season, there will be a precipitous drop off in what they get for licensed stuff like t-shirts, hats, etc.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

I think the Freeh Report was basically the NCAA's investigation here. There was so litte to argue here. There will not be a time where Penn State will get away with anything again. I will say this about the death penalty and SMU. I think a death penalty for a place like Penn State would have been "manageable" for them--assuming it was just one year and there would have been the fine still. Even if the bowl ban was for two years and they got no TV, it would have been manageable for them to get back to being a prominent national team. I'm not sure that the penalties levied today aren't more stiff than a death penalty like the one SMU got. Remember, SMU go the death penalty because of rampant and continuous cheating (7 times in a 14 year span, IIRC). When they got the death penalty, SMU added a year to it themselves, then basically came back as a walk-on program. Then, the SMU administration went so far the other direction to avoid any connection to those days of old that they basically made it impossible to recruit and win over there. Penn State would never have made it that hard to recruit and admit football players after a death penalty--I think they would've been able to bounce back faster than SMU did and I am not sure if the death penalty here wouldn't have made it easier on Penn State. No matter what, though, Penn State will not compete for a Big Ten title for many, many years. Indiana, Northwestern, Minnesota, and Illinois are all going to have a new whipping boy. And I cannot even imagine what the Ohio State, Michigan, Michigna State, Wisconsin, Nebraska, and Iowa scores are going to look like for the next decade. Penn State will load up with MAC and SBC schools in OOC going forward just to get a few wins, but getting more than one B1G win in a season will be very surprising to me in the course of the next 5+ years. Hello B1G basement!!

I think, also, that the "Death Penalty" for SMU had little effect on the DFW economy as a whole because it was a very small part of it. At Penn State, you have a true college town that depends on the school for its economy.

Also, the SWC could have cared less for anyone except Texas, so having SMU out of the way was fine. People weren't clamoring for the SMU-TCU and SMU-Rice games during SMU's absence. In the Big Ten, many great games will be lost.

Edited July 23, 2012 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

[rcade]

Maybe. But if North Texas was ever involved in something like this I would never give the school another penny.

Same here. I'd wash my hands of the school.

[UNT90]

They used the PSU commissioned Freeh report. Over a dozen investigators, over 450 interviews and over 1 million documents examined is a pretty full investigation.

With not even a glimpse into the possibility of a money trail to 2nd mile.

Freeh wasn't looking for traditional NCAA violations. Freeh was investigating the cover up of child sexual assault.

Whether 2nd mile was used to pay players and provide Penn St. with a competitive advantage is a seperate investigation that falls solely under the NCAA jurisdiction. And it wasn't done.

Do you really think Penn St. would pay for an investigation that was even allowed to look for traditional NCAA violations? Didn't we just hear how terrible the culture was in Happy Valley? Yet no independant investigation, just the investigation that Penn St. paid for.

Pretty disgraceful.

Edited July 23, 2012 by UNT90

[UNT90]

I think the Freeh Report was basically the NCAA's investigation here. There was so litte to argue here. There will not be a time where Penn State will get away with anything again. I will say this about the death penalty and SMU. I think a death penalty for a place like Penn State would have been "manageable" for them--assuming it was just one year and there would have been the fine still. Even if the bowl ban was for two years and they got no TV, it would have been manageable for them to get back to being a prominent national team. I'm not sure that the penalties levied today aren't more stiff than a death penalty like the one SMU got. Remember, SMU go the death penalty because of rampant and continuous cheating (7 times in a 14 year span, IIRC). When they got the death penalty, SMU added a year to it themselves, then basically came back as a walk-on program. Then, the SMU administration went so far the other direction to avoid any connection to those days of old that they basically made it impossible to recruit and win over there. Penn State would never have made it that hard to recruit and admit football players after a death penalty--I think they would've been able to bounce back faster than SMU did and I am not sure if the death penalty here wouldn't have made it easier on Penn State. No matter what, though, Penn State will not compete for a Big Ten title for many, many years. Indiana, Northwestern, Minnesota, and Illinois are all going to have a new whipping boy. And I cannot even imagine what the Ohio State, Michigan, Michigna State, Wisconsin, Nebraska, and Iowa scores are going to look like for the next decade. Penn State will load up with MAC and SBC schools in OOC going forward just to get a few wins, but getting more than one B1G win in a season will be very surprising to me in the course of the next 5+ years. Hello B1G basement!!

The death penalty would have been a much needed symbolic punishment by the NCAA. Penn St. would have been added to the list of schools to receive the death penalty. It would be a stigma that would have stayed with the program for decades (see SMU).

Maybe the child sexual assault scandal alone will accomplish this much needed goal, but the NCAA had a chance to mark a program forever that absolutely deserved that mark, and they chose to pass.

[golfingomez]

i think the punishments are definitely harsh enough... they killed anything remaining of JoePa's legacy and put the program in a hole... yes, there is a chance that the program can be built back up in 10 years, but is that wrong? It's not like ANYONE at PSU has any real ties to this thing anymore... those people are either dead, in jail, or are fired and soon likely to be in jail... i hope they DO build the program back up someday...

[LongJim]

Didn't we have a wager on this? ;-)

Donated the $20 to the MG Club instead of Harry and his minions this time. Good to go.

[UNTLifer]

Can we actively recruit their DT's? Outside of Boutwell, I am worried about that position. Regarding their penalties, they should have been shutdown.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Can we actively recruit their DT's? Outside of Boutwell, I am worried about that position. Regarding their penalties, they should have been shutdown.

Agreed! They can start right away probably. Lots of sunshine and women down here...likely more of both than "Happy Valley" ever had.

As far as shutting them down, they will be crippled to the point where they will wish they'd been shut down.

Here's another thing: I'm not sure why any of the players would want to stay. For all the high and mighty bullcrap Joe Paterno, the AD, the school president, etc. all laid on publicly it is now clear that they simply covered for a child molester. Why in the world would any player be true to a school that was full of liars?

[UNT90]

Schools that take in a Penn State transfer will not have that ship count against them

This makes me wonder how many will leave Penn St. this year.

It will be interesting to see what they have left once the defections are done.

The sad thing is the new coaching staff will be doing everything they can to talk these kids into staying and minimizing the effects of the sanctions, all the while telling these kids that it is their duty to Penn St. to stay on.

Hope they shower when they get home.

[eulessismore]

And just what "culture" is the NCAA talking about? Penn State has always projected a squeaky-clean (complete with the most boring uni's in the NCAA) program led by a grandfatherly figure, who cared for his boys more than just about any coach in NCAA history. As far as a "culture" goes, that's pretty much what the NCAA would like to see at every University in the nation.

So is the NCAA talking about the culture of "cover up?". If so, then that pretty much exists at most big time programs. And they had better increase their compliance staff by about 10X.....or more.

Come to think of it, why don't they make PSU pay additional fines for 10 years to the NCAA for the purpose of hiring more compliance staff.

When a man of such power knows something so wrong is happening and does nothing to stop it (at least by removing Sandusky's access to the athletic facilities where he could carry on his activities), he'd have to be the creepiest "grandfatherly figure" I can imagine. And we're all really screwed (pun intended)if that's what the NCAA would like to see at every university in the nation.

Yeah,a lot of things are covered up at the "big time" programs, but child rape in the men's shower? Other than Dave Bliss as Baylor head basketball coach, I'd have a hard time seeing how anything else I've heard comes close, in terms of collegiate sports. But, the culture of collegiate basketball and Coach K of Duke basically condemning those who ratted out Bliss (basically blackballing one assistant), now there's a story.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

Schools that take in a Penn State transfer will not have that ship count against them

If that is accurate, a lot of younger players will be gone.

[UNTflyer]

Let's examine the sanctions individually and the resulting impact:

- 4 year bowl ban (they still get to play football in 2012).

- $60 million fine (they still get to play football in 2012).

- Reduction of scholarships (they still get to play football in 2012).

- Vacated 14 years of victories (they still get to play football in 2012).

- 5 years of probation and monitoring (they still get to play football in 2012).

[golfingomez]

Let's examine the sanctions individually and the resulting impact:

- 4 year bowl ban (they still get to play football in 2012).

- $60 million fine (they still get to play football in 2012).

- Reduction of scholarships (they still get to play football in 2012).

- Vacated 14 years of victories (they still get to play football in 2012).

- 5 years of probation and monitoring (they still get to play football in 2012).

do you think they should have shut down the school? serious question, because this went beyond the Athletic Dept.

[buff64]

On top of these restrictions , the Big 10 has taken away Penn States portion of the Big Ten Bowl monies, for 4 years.

[UNTFan23]

On top of these restrictions , the Big 10 has taken away Penn States portion of the Big Ten Bowl monies, for 4 years.

I was a little surprised they didn't take away the TV revenue sharing.

[UNTflyer]

All the NCAA could have done is shut down athletics.

(null)

[UNTFan23]

All the NCAA could have done is shut down athletics.

(null)

They shut down athletics and they risk throwing that region of Pennsylvania into a recession.

[SilverEagle]

Let's examine the sanctions individually and the resulting impact:

- 4 year bowl ban (they still get to play football in 2012).

- $60 million fine (they still get to play football in 2012).

- Reduction of scholarships (they still get to play football in 2012).

- Vacated 14 years of victories (they still get to play football in 2012).

- 5 years of probation and monitoring (they still get to play football in 2012).

...and then there is the comment that these sanctions will punished innocent athletes at Penn State. Let me give them a reality check.

They are still STUDENT ATHLETES. Their main function in college is to get......A COLLEGE EDUCATION. Their education is still paid for, and when they graduate, they will not have any STUDENT LOAN DEBT. Thousands and thousands of college students in the US would love to have that situation.

They can still play football on Saturdays this fall and throughout the remainder of their eligibility. If they don't like the circumstances (they will no longer be semi-pro athletes for Penn State) they can transfer to another semi-pro program.

Playing college sports is a privilege not an inalienable right.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

...and then there is the comment that these sanctions will punished innocent athletes at Penn State. Let me give them a reality check.

They are still STUDENT ATHLETES. Their main function in college is to get......A COLLEGE EDUCATION. Their education is still paid for, and when they graduate, they will not have any STUDENT LOAN DEBT. Thousands and thousands of college students in the US would love to have that situation.

They can still play football on Saturdays this fall and throughout the remainder of their eligibility. If they don't like the circumstances (they will no longer be semi-pro athletes for Penn State) they can transfer to another semi-pro program.

Playing college sports is a privilege not an inalienable right.

All of this.

A scholarship isn't a four year deal anyway. Either party can walk on it at renewal time each season. If I was at Penn State football player, I'd be mad about "The Penn State Way" lie, and would be eager to get out of there.