TJ Taylor (Release from Marquette)

[Harry]

This happens more then you think. My friend played college ball in Houston and he told me your scholarship is on the line every year. It is not a contract nor a guarantee. If a new recruit is going to be better then you well.. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. They had to sit down at the end of every year and discuss if they would be allowed back. Almost every program does this. This Is not some liberal ideal where everyone is a winner and gets a trophy sport. It is a compeition. There are winners and losers as life should be.

Well said.

[emmitt01]

This happens more then you think. My friend played college ball in Houston and he told me your scholarship is on the line every year. It is not a contract nor a guarantee. If a new recruit is going to be better then you well.. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. They had to sit down at the end of every year and discuss if they would be allowed back. Almost every program does this. This Is not some liberal ideal where everyone is a winner and gets a trophy sport. It is a compeition. There are winners and losers as life should be.

We have a winner!

Folks, NO SCHOOL guarantees you four years of paid for college just because they recruit you. Nor should they.

Basketball coaches have NEVER been retained because they were ultra loyal to their kids...they're retained because they're loyal to winning. That's why Roy Williams earns more than any Sunbelt coach.

And comparing cutting loose a kid that wouldn't see the court to a bank robbery is beyond stupid.

[Green P1]

This singular year has to be all in. By no means do I want this program to develop the reputation of one that doesn't honor it's commitments.... I just don't understand how some fail to realize that this needs to be "THE" year.

[GrandGreen]

Yes, the end justifies the mean. Bs, the team has 13 ships already and my assumption is that nobody has been told that their ship has not been renewed, In fact, the AD has been on record that he will not allow a new coach to get rid of players because of their ability,

So this is not just a matter of not renewing a ship that is done all the time but you can not do that in any case with incoming players and the time is long passed for not renewing ships,

Sure, coaches can always have the conversation were they strongly hint that a player does not fix into their plans and life as a future player maybe less than idea, This is done all the time, partially by new coaches but again not often this late,

[foutsrouts]

Yes, the end justifies the mean. Bs, the team has 13 ships already and my assumption is that nobody has been told that their ship has not been renewed, In fact, the AD has been on record that he will not allow a new coach to get rid of players because of their ability,

So this is not just a matter of not renewing a ship that is done all the time but you can not do that in any case with incoming players and the time is long passed for not renewing ships,

Sure, coaches can always have the conversation were they strongly hint that a player does not fix into their plans and life as a future player maybe less than idea, This is done all the time, partially by new coaches but again not often this late,

So what was the deal with Robinson?

[MeanGreenTexan]

OK folks, here's your chance to play Mean Green Basketball GM!!!!!

Please keep in mind that when you kick one of these guys to the curb, you are taking away around $20K and their ability to attend the finest University in Texas. Sounds like some of you couldn't care less.

http://www.meangreen...=564&SPSID=9109

I see 1, maybe 2, names that I would even consider dropping for this guy who appears to be extremely unreliable when it comes to sticking with a school... however talented he may be. He's a risk, and we have a pretty stacked lineup as it is.

So, who's it gonna be? Surely you guys have targeted a player to boot?

... there's always a chance that Benford can convince TJ to walk on here with a promise of taking Tony's scholarship when he goes to the NBA next season. If he can, that would be the ideal scenario, but that's gonna be alot of money out of TJ's pocket this year.

Otherwise, you're playing chicken with the future when every college coach will tell our shared recruits, "Did you know Benford kicked so-&-so off the team? He was a really good player! Did you know he was on the Texas top 100/JUCO top 100 list, just like you? You can't trust him."

[H-towngreen]

Wow...I knew this team was loaded but I had no idea how deep it really was till I looked at the roster

[forevereagle]

I have no real issue with removing a scholarship from a player as long as the player is treated fairly in the deal. If the school can do anything to help him financially since the school is the one that offered to pay his way, then I don't see a problem. Athletics is about winning. As long as we are treating players like a person and not some asset to push around, then i'm fine. I just don't want to hear about some player that we kicked to the curb and he never was able to find a place to land because UNT was so heartless.

[Mean Green 93-98]

So what was the deal with Robinson?

I thought he was already on the way out before LSU ever started flirting with J.J. (?)

[Eastwood Eagle]

OK folks, here's your chance to play Mean Green Basketball GM!!!!!

Please keep in mind that when you kick one of these guys to the curb, you are taking away around $20K and their ability to attend the finest University in Texas. Sounds like some of you couldn't care less.

http://www.meangreen...=564&SPSID=9109

I see 1, maybe 2, names that I would even consider dropping for this guy who appears to be extremely unreliable when it comes to sticking with a school... however talented he may be. He's a risk, and we have a pretty stacked lineup as it is.

So, who's it gonna be? Surely you guys have targeted a player to boot?

... there's always a chance that Benford can convince TJ to walk on here with a promise of taking Tony's scholarship when he goes to the NBA next season. If he can, that would be the ideal scenario, but that's gonna be alot of money out of TJ's pocket this year.

Otherwise, you're playing chicken with the future when every college coach will tell our shared recruits, "Did you know Benford kicked so-&-so off the team? He was a really good player! Did you know he was on the Texas top 100/JUCO top 100 list, just like you? You can't trust him."

Bye Niko?

In all honesty if your a star player I don't think you will be worried about "coached kicked someone off the team". If anything, it shows the recruit that the coach wants to win.

[UNT90]

OK folks, here's your chance to play Mean Green Basketball GM!!!!!

Please keep in mind that when you kick one of these guys to the curb, you are taking away around $20K and their ability to attend the finest University in Texas. Sounds like some of you couldn't care less.

http://www.meangreen...=564&SPSID=9109

I see 1, maybe 2, names that I would even consider dropping for this guy who appears to be extremely unreliable when it comes to sticking with a school... however talented he may be. He's a risk, and we have a pretty stacked lineup as it is.

So, who's it gonna be? Surely you guys have targeted a player to boot?

... there's always a chance that Benford can convince TJ to walk on here with a promise of taking Tony's scholarship when he goes to the NBA next season. If he can, that would be the ideal scenario, but that's gonna be alot of money out of TJ's pocket this year.

Otherwise, you're playing chicken with the future when every college coach will tell our shared recruits, "Did you know Benford kicked so-&-so off the team? He was a really good player! Did you know he was on the Texas top 100/JUCO top 100 list, just like you? You can't trust him."

Not really the way it would be done. I would imagine the coach would sit the player down, tell him that there is not going to be any playing opportunity for the player, and then offer the player any help and reccomendation in transferring. Yes, the player would be transferring to a lesser basketball school because he did not have the talent to play at UNT, but any player that has the talent to sign with UNT WILL have other options to play basketball for a free education.

The only educational opportunity you are taking away from the kid is his opportunity at UNT, not every opportunity. It's not that dramatic.

As for Forresst Robinson, I believe it was his decision to leave the program. After one year. Didn't hear how unfair it was to UNT when he made that decision.

Two way street.

Edited July 20, 2012 by UNT90

[MeanGreenTexan]

Bye Niko?

In all honesty if your a star player I don't think you will be worried about "coached kicked someone off the team". If anything, it shows the recruit that the coach wants to win.

Devils advocate:

"Hey <recruit X>, coach Benford can't really be trusted to nurture your talent. Did you know he cut one of the best JUCO forwards in the nation from his team? The player played on the French National Team for crying out loud, and coach Benford didn't feel he was good enough for his team because he had another kid he liked better. He may do the same thing to you if someone else he likes comes along. You just cant trust him. Come play for me at <XYZ school> because we honor our committments and we know you're special."

Actually, that comment would probably be geared more towards the parents. Remember, you're talking around 6 figures worth of money over a 4-5 year span. That is VERY serious money. Parents will relate to this argument more than a teenager who thinks he can beat anyone... and if Tony Mitchell's mom has taught us anything (thankfully!), it's that parents have significant say-so in where their sons wind up.

I'm not saying definitely don't do this... I'm just saying tread VERY lightly when considering this option.

[KRAM1]

NT fans are a strange lot, a whisper that so and so recruit is not that great of a commit and half the board is up in arms. However, it is perfectly alright for many for NT to either not honor a commit or just bump someone off the basketball team. SMU does this, and it is scorned; but if the player is good enough many don't seem to mind if NT and/or staff does the same thing.

It is way late, for NT not to renew a basketball ship and backing out on 2013 commits doesn't help. From a fans view, who cares if x player is mistreated; heck he just should be better. My guess that most of us would view it different if related to the player.

We have to see about Benford, but I don't want a win at all cost coach. I don't think mistreating player is a good strategy in the long run. Most teams in the Belt do it, Jank and Trilli at NT did it to no avail. I think one of the reason that JJ was successful was that he was a player coach and had next to no turnover compared to most of his peers.

I particular like those who wouldn't do something like pulling a ship or backing out on a commitment unless it was a potential great player. I guess bank robbery would be out of the question, unless it was a really big heist.

Indeed. I see this attitude of "pulling a scholarship" for a so-called better player as just another indication of how we, as a society, see no shame in walking away from our commitments these days. The folks saying this is fine are, to me, like the folks who just want to tax other people. It's just well and good unless of course it happened to them in their jobs or within their families...then, not so much. But, let the situation fall on someone else...well, that's not a bad deal...it's just upgrading! Not for me it's not....you make a commitment...you honor it. You ask someone to the prom and then a "better deal" pops up...too bad, you take the one you first asked. Just another "symptom" of the change that is taking place in our society these days and one of the things that definitely is becoming a big problem...my opinion, of course.

Just let the Dallas Police Chief tell a newly minted Sarge something like...oh, sorry, we have this guy who just moved here and was a Sarge in the BIGGER CITY police force and he was a super star....we don't have room for him, so we are going to demote you and bring this guy in...you don't mind do you? It's all about upgrading the force and that's what we all want, right? I wonder how that would go over? With all due respect of course. BTW...I know this couldn't happen within the Dallas Police force...unions and all that and I am sure folks will say...oh, that's apples and organges...but the analogy is perhaps made.

[Andrew]

A scholarship is not a commitment. It's an opportunity. Nothing more

[UNT90]

Devils advocate:

"Hey <recruit X>, coach Benford can't really be trusted to nurture your talent. Did you know he cut one of the best JUCO forwards in the nation from his team? The player played on the French National Team for crying out loud, and coach Benford didn't feel he was good enough for his team because he had another kid he liked better. He may do the same thing to you if someone else he likes comes along. You just cant trust him. Come play for me at <XYZ school> because we honor our committments and we know you're special."

Actually, that comment would probably be geared more towards the parents. Remember, you're talking around 6 figures worth of money over a 4-5 year span. That is VERY serious money. Parents will relate to this argument more than a teenager who thinks he can beat anyone... and if Tony Mitchell's mom has taught us anything (thankfully!), it's that parents have significant say-so in where their sons wind up.

I'm not saying definitely don't do this... I'm just saying tread VERY lightly when considering this option.

What is to stop a coach saying that about Forrest? It isn't true, but what's to stop it? Benford's response would be "look, the young man was buried on our roster and wanted to play basketball AND get an education. I made sure he got a release from our school so he could go to a place where he could pursue his dream of not just being on a college basketball team, but actually playing college basketball, and I would do the same for you if that is what it came down to. I will never lie to you about your ability. Right now, I think you will help our team. If, for whatever reason that doesn't work out, I will make sure you get somewhere that you want to go and where you will be able to play. Now, Coach Scumbag who told you I dump players just had 3 kids transfer from his program. Did he tell you the same thing I just told you? No? Well, I don't know if he took care of those kids or not. I'm not going to make uneducated assumptions about his program. What I can tell you is that if you deserve to play on my team, you play. If the unforeseen happens and you can't crack the lineup, I will get you somewhere that you can play college ball."

You suppose kids want to stay at the end of the bench when they could easily start for another program. Some may, but I would be willing to bet most don't.

[Andrew]

And actually the new Dallas sheriff has done that. She has removed people and given them the grave yard shift because they did not agree with her being "homosexual" so it does happen in the real world as well Rather that example is fair or not is reallyup to you. I cannot type large paragraphs on an iPad but it is all driven by competition and the want to get better. Why do you think people strive to make themselves better?

[Andrew]

It is not a free ride... Why do students have their academic scholarships removed? They too every year have to have a conversation about their abilities and scholarship.

[adman]

And actually the new Dallas sheriff has done that. She has removed people and given them the grave yard shift because they did not agree with her being "homosexual" so it does happen in the real world as well Rather that example is fair or not is reallyup to you. I cannot type large paragraphs on an iPad but it is all driven by competition and the want to get better. Why do you think people strive to make themselves better?

So they won't catch the gay?

[emmitt01]

Epic fail on that one.

When I, because let's not pretend that wasn't pointed at me, was promote to Sergeant nobody said to me "we're offering this position which is renewable at the department's discretion each year".Let me speak slowly so that we can all read along: SCHOLARSHIPS ARE NOT PROMISES OF FOUR YEARS OF PAID COLLEGE. They never have been. And trying t shoe horn in a "let others foot the bill" argument, in addition to being incomprehensibly off topic, is a pretty desperate attempt to slide a little political slant in.

Indeed. I see this attitude of "pulling a scholarship" for a so-called better player as just another indication of how we, as a society, see no shame in walking away from our commitments these days. The folks saying this is fine are, to me, like the folks who just want to tax other people. It's just well and good unless of course it happened to them in their jobs or within their families...then, not so much. But, let the situation fall on someone else...well, that's not a bad deal...it's just upgrading! Not for me it's not....you make a commitment...you honor it. You ask someone to the prom and then a "better deal" pops up...too bad, you take the one you first asked. Just another "symptom" of the change that is taking place in our society these days and one of the things that definitely is becoming a big problem...my opinion, of course.

Just let the Dallas Police Chief tell a newly minted Sarge something like...oh, sorry, we have this guy who just moved here and was a Sarge in the BIGGER CITY police force and he was a super star....we don't have room for him, so we are going to demote you and bring this guy in...you don't mind do you? It's all about upgrading the force and that's what we all want, right? I wonder how that would go over? With all due respect of course. BTW...I know this couldn't happen within the Dallas Police force...unions and all that and I am sure folks will say...oh, that's apples and organges...but the analogy is perhaps made.

[NTGabe15]

You suppose kids want to stay at the end of the bench when they could easily start for another program. Some may, but I would be willing to bet most don't.

First year of high school I played basketball and was put on the freshman B team. The first game I scored 20 points so they moved me up to A team. I never saw the court except for the last few seconds at the end of either half. I asked the coach to move me back down and he said no. That was the worst season of basketball in my short career. From personal experience the kids just want to play its not about being at a huge school. Bias aside I would rather be a star at NT than last off the bench at Kentucky.

[Eastwood Eagle]

A scholarship is not a commitment. It's an opportunity. Nothing more

/thread.

I was given academic scholarships in college. If I failed to maintain a certain GPA I would have lost my scholarship.

If a player does not meet a certain standard on the basketball team why can't he lose his scholarship?

[Mean Green 93-98]

/thread.

I was given academic scholarships in college. If I failed to maintain a certain GPA I would have lost my scholarship.

If a player does not meet a certain standard on the basketball team why can't he lose his scholarship?

Not really a fair parallel. You were told exactly what the standard would be. A player can meet all his expectations grade-wise, conduct-wise, practice- and training-wise, and game-wise and still lose his scholarship. You were never in danger of losing your scholarship when a better (academic) recruit looked to transfer to UNT.

[UNT90]

Not really a fair parallel. You were told exactly what the standard would be. A player can meet all his expectations grade-wise, conduct-wise, practice- and training-wise, and game-wise and still lose his scholarship. You were never in danger of losing your scholarship when a better (academic) recruit looked to transfer to UNT.

These are athletic scholarships. If you fail to perform athletically, you lose it. That simple.

[MeanGreenTexan]

These are athletic scholarships. If you fail to perform athletically, you lose it. That simple.

Is it really that simple? I don't believe it is, or we would see tons of guys bumped, or "re-accomodated", all over the nation at coaches' discretion.

[Mean Green 93-98]

These are athletic scholarships. If you fail to perform athletically, you lose it. That simple.

If that were true, underperforming athletes would know by the end of the season they were being bumped. But no one is told at the beginning of the season or when he is recruited, "We expect x production per minute played, or you lose your scholarship." And, really, coaches' discretion would not even matter if it were a pure matter of "If you fail to perform athletically, you lose it."