Penn State football deserves death penalty for cover-up

[forevereagle]

If your business depends on 7 or 8 weekends a year, you are employing seasonal (read: parttime) employees for those weekends, anyway.

Yes, there is a price the community has to pay, but, in this case, they have to pay it.

Yeah, when crime happens, let's not just punish the guilty, let's punish everyone in sight. That'll teach those people that being around crime and not participating in or have any knowledge of it...something.

[forevereagle]

Good. All the more reason to drop the bomb. Perhaps if everyone gets a wake up call, this won't EVER happen again.

Sure will, all those people who couldn't have any impact on the situation and suffer from the outcome will now do things differently and prevent this from happening in the future. Because if they had just assumed everyone around them was a criminal, they could have prevented this maybe.

Edited July 17, 2012 by forevereagle

[Cr1028]

Yeah, when crime happens, let's not just punish the guilty, let's punish everyone in sight. That'll teach those people that being around crime and not participating in or have any knowledge of it...something.

Considering your average pedophile isn't overly concerned about how he is going to hurt the children he molests, I doubt his worry of how he affects the local economy will stop his actions.

Very well said by the both of you. I agree.

[LongJim]

Considering your average pedophile isn't overly concerned about how he is going to hurt the children he molests, I doubt his worry of how he affects the local economy will stop his actions.

Don't care about the waste of my oxygen that is Sandusky or others of his should-be-dealt-death-swiftly ilk.

If the community is so concerned about the welfare of their fake "happy valley"--even that name is a perversion now--then maybe they will check on their goose that lays their golden egg to make sure a wolf isn't in the coop instead of burying their collective heads in the sand or holding their hands over their ears like they have done for the past 14 years.

This runs much deeper than Sandusky. Missing persons, missing laptops, and missing hard drives are public knowledge. This Stepford community didn't want to hear it. They just wanted to hug PSU and bathe in the shower of pleasure and $ it gave them while PSU's spineless leadership caved to a man who enabled a serial pedophile to seduce young boys for more than 14 years, and until this week had a **#%^*@ HALO painted over his head in a campus mural.

That's the level of PUBLIC delusion this place operates under.

They hold their share of culpability in this digusting mess, and I will have no pity if they suffer because of it.

[Cr1028]

Don't care about the waste of my oxygen that is Sandusky or others of his should-be-dealt-death-swiftly ilk.

If the community is so concerned about the welfare of their fake "happy valley"--even that name is a perversion now--then maybe they will check on their goose that lays their golden egg to make sure a wolf isn't in the coop instead of burying their collective heads in the sand or holding their hands over their ears like they have done for the past 14 years.

This runs much deeper than Sandusky. Missing persons, missing laptops, and missing hard drives are public knowledge. This Stepford community didn't want to hear it. They just wanted to hug PSU and bathe in the shower of pleasure and $ it gave them while PSU's spineless leadership caved to a man who enabled a serial pedophile to seduce young boys for more than 14 years, and until this week had a **#%^*@ HALO painted over his head in a campus mural.

That's the level of PUBLIC delusion this place operates under.

They hold their share of culpability in this digusting mess, and I will have no pity if they suffer because of it.

I hope you will feel this same way if the same problems arise with your precious Horns.

Oh wait, Cleve stuck to young women instead of young boys. Nevermind.

Edited July 17, 2012 by Cr1028

[Mean Green 93-98]

If the community is so concerned about the welfare of their fake "happy valley"--even that name is a perversion now--then maybe they will check on their goose that lays their golden egg to make sure a wolf isn't in the coop instead of burying their collective heads in the sand or holding their hands over their ears like they have done for the past 14 years.

Really? The community is at fault here? Do you think the residents of Austin are regularly interviewing the assistants on Mack Brown's staff and any children with whom they might come into contact to make sure there are no pedophiles on staff? And if not, should the residents of Austin be held accountable should one be found on his staff? The residents of Centre County, Pennsylvania were every bit as disgusted as the rest of the nation when they found out about Sandusky.

Don't forget, it was a jury comprised of residents of Centre County, Pennsylvania--the people you want to see destroyed--who ensured that Sandusky would spend the rest of his life behind bars with no chance for parole.

[forevereagle]

If the community is so concerned about the welfare of their fake "happy valley"--even that name is a perversion now--then maybe they will check on their goose that lays their golden egg to make sure a wolf isn't in the coop instead of burying their collective heads in the sand or holding their hands over their ears like they have done for the past 14 years.

How do you propose they do that? Should the entire community go down to the university and demand access? Should they have placed people in the locker room showers? Should they have designated people to follow around all key figures at the university?

What makes you think they buried their heads in the sand? If you don't know something is wrong, how can you ignore it?

They hold their share of culpability in this digusting mess, and I will have no pity if they suffer because of it.

So the guy who lives down the street and runs the local diner holds what responsibility, exactly? He served food to them and nourished them so they could go on about committing heinous acts, so he is responsible for this as well, despite the fact that he had no knowledge of the events or any way to acquire said knowledge?

Edited July 17, 2012 by forevereagle

[Mean Green 93-98]

This Stepford community didn't want to hear it. They just wanted to hug PSU and bathe in the shower of pleasure and $ it gave them while PSU's spineless leadership caved to a man who enabled a serial pedophile to seduce young boys for more than 14 years, and until this week had a **#%^*@ HALO painted over his head in a campus mural.

That's the level of PUBLIC delusion this place operates under.

It's clear that your view of State College from your ivory tower is more than a little cloudy. Have you ever been there? Talked to anyone from there? Ever had any real means of learning their opinions and views of this matter?

[TIgreen01]

The NCAA has not ruled the death penalty out....

http://content.usato.../1#.UAWRDGHY-So

Nice link...and maybe the author manufactured it, but it's curious that in the last quote from Emmert he seems to drop his guard and suggest that penalties are imminent:

"Well it was more than a football scandal, much more than a football scandal. It was that but much more. And we'll have to figure out exactly what the right penalties are. I don't know that past precedent makes particularly good sense in this case, because it's really an unprecedented problem"

Earlier, he said this:

"What the appropriate penalties are, if there are determinations of violations, we'll have to decide."

I think that he KNOWS that they need to come down hard on Penn St. and it sounds like the organization is working hard to find out how to do just that. Personally, I think Tasty is on to the easiest, cleanest possible response. Kick them out of the NCAA. I think that move saves you from having to dig through all the pages and pages of legalize in the rulebook. It would be a devastating blow, and possibly an exceptionally dangerous precedent---which may be the only reason it doesn't come to that.

[UNT90]

Also, let's have an NCAA-wide ban on athletic department employees working at the same place more than 10 years. We can't have loyalty and family atmospheres. It's that kind of culture that these sickos abused and took advantage of.

Nah, they kind of took advantage of a system that refused to report sexual abuse of children while allowing continued access to children by the preditor that the "family" administration was protecting.

I guess if you are talking about a really F'ed up "family", your analogy would be correct.

[LongJim]

See, now you guys have to go all personal and throw out college smack. I'm just giving my opinion. I feel strongly about it. That's it.

If some of you think I have an ivory tower complex, that's fine. Call it what you want. I would have the same opinion no matter who was involved.

If some of you think the entire culture in State College--which is molded and shaped by the athletic department at PSU--did not help enable Paterno and his spineless flunkies, then I don't know what to tell you. I simply said I will not feel pity for this delusional community if they suffer because of what that culture fostered. They've already reaped plenty of benefits.

[Mean Green 93-98]

See, now you guys have to go all personal and throw out college smack. I'm just giving my opinion. I feel strongly about it. That's it.

If some of you think I have an ivory tower complex, that's fine. Call it what you want. I would have the same opinion no matter who was involved.

If some of you think the entire culture in State College--which is molded and shaped by the athletic department at PSU--did not help enable Paterno and his spineless flunkies, then I don't know what to tell you. I simply said I will not feel pity for this delusional community if they suffer because of what that culture fostered. They've already reaped plenty of benefits.

Nice cop out.

[UNT90]

Yeah, when crime happens, let's not just punish the guilty, let's punish everyone in sight. That'll teach those people that being around crime and not participating in or have any knowledge of it...something.

One of the crimes we are talking about is granting the power to a football coach to overrule the president of a university. That happened. That community and those boosters gave JoePa that power. They freaking made the guy a diety and allowed him to run the university.

JoePa didn't get that kind of power without huge support from the community, boosters, the BOR, and the student body.

Every single group of people that gave JoePa the power that he abused deserves punishment.

And your supposition that Penn St. And Happy Valley, in particular, learned one damn thing at this point is so far off the mark it isn't even funny. If there are no personal consequences, there is no lesson.

A slap on the wrist by the NCAA IS no personal consequences for the institution of Penn St.

For those of you that think Happy Valley gets it:

http://articles.mcall.com/2012-07-12/news/mc-penn-state-freeh-report-campus-20120712_1_freeh-report-hub-robeson-center-penn-state

Edited July 17, 2012 by UNT90

[UNT Five&Dime]

As someone with ties to PSU throughout my family and a little Nittany Blue in my blood, I have to say some of you are severely misguided if you think even a small portion of the Penn State family is okay with what happened and that they helped create a culture that allowed this to happen. A few people did. Don't group my cousins, uncles and father in with them. They are probably more pissed off about this than you are.

[LongJim]

Let me answer your question then 93-98, since my answer wasn't clear enough for you.

Really? The community is at fault here? Do you think the residents of Austin are regularly interviewing the assistants on Mack Brown's staff and any children with whom they might come into contact to make sure there are no pedophiles on staff? And if not, should the residents of Austin be held accountable should one be found on his staff? The residents of Centre County, Pennsylvania were every bit as disgusted as the rest of the nation when they found out about Sandusky.

Is PSU not a member of the State College community? Would the residents of State College consider PSU a member of the community? Did the residents of State College receive no benefits from Penn State being a member of the community even though they had nothing to do with Penn State? The residents of State College are held accountable by serving as jury members. That's how the community is held accountable. Kudos to Centre County for doing this. As community members, they have to make a decision--the right decision--and do the right thing.

Is the right thing to do to keep the football program operating as it has been, but just eliminate the "offending" pieces? I don't believe that's enough.

Again, and no one has answered this--what punishment for a football program that systematically looked the other way while young boys were systematically raped and abused for 14 years within the community you live in--is acceptable? As a member of a community where this occurred, what is a fair punishment?

It's not acceptable to me to limit the punishment to removing the human waste and going on with business as usual. It's not acceptable to me to simply do that and not punish the entity that enabled this to happen. If that damages the community, so be it. The two are intertwined for good or bad.

Is that a cop out?

[Cr1028]

One of the crimes we are talking about is granting the power to a football coach to overrule the president of a university. That happened. That community and those boosters gave JoePa that power. They freaking made the guy a diety and allowed him to run the university.

JoePa didn't get that kind of power without huge support from the community, boosters, the BOR, and the student body.

Every single group of people that gave JoePa the power that he abused deserves punishment.

And your supposition that Penn St. And Happy Valley, in particular, learned one damn thing at this point is so far off the mark it isn't even funny. If there are no personal consequences, there is no lesson.

A slap on the wrist by the NCAA IS no personal consequences for the institution of Penn St.

I guess those born before June 17, 1972 need to pay their price for Watergate. They elected him and gave him the power. Even those who didn't vote for him deserve to be punished so the lesson isn't lost.

Edited July 17, 2012 by Cr1028

[Cr1028]

Again, and no one has answered this--what punishment for a football program that systematically looked the other way while young boys were systematically raped and abused for 14 years within the community you live in--is acceptable? As a member of a community where this occurred, what is a fair punishment?

First off, a football program does not have eyes so it could not look the other way. The people running it looked the other way. There are many football programs at the BCS level that have just as much power on campus as PSU does. Are you for shutting them down as well to avoid a potential problem?

And since you asked, I think a fair punishment would be to honor the current scholarships but not allow any new scholarships for 4 years. After the 4 year ban they can build back up at 25 schollys per year. For the 4 year span though, they will have to get by with walkons and players already in the program. Players within the program currently would be given the option to transfer penalty free if they wished, otherwise they could continue with their current status.

Edited July 17, 2012 by Cr1028

[Mean Green 93-98]

Let me answer your question then 93-98, since my answer wasn't clear enough for you.

Is PSU not a member of the State College community? Would the residents of State College consider PSU a member of the community? Did the residents of State College receive no benefits from Penn State being a member of the community even though they had nothing to do with Penn State? The residents of State College are held accountable by serving as jury members. That's how the community is held accountable. Kudos to Centre County for doing this. As community members, they have to make a decision--the right decision--and do the right thing.

Is the right thing to do to keep the football program operating as it has been, but just eliminate the "offending" pieces? I don't believe that's enough.

Again, and no one has answered this--what punishment for a football program that systematically looked the other way while young boys were systematically raped and abused for 14 years within the community you live in--is acceptable? As a member of a community where this occurred, what is a fair punishment?

It's not acceptable to me to limit the punishment to removing the human waste and going on with business as usual. It's not acceptable to me to simply do that and not punish the entity that enabled this to happen. If that damages the community, so be it. The two are intertwined for good or bad.

Is that a cop out?

No, that's not a cop-out. Thank you for answering the question.

If you think that the death penalty is the necessary punishment, I can somewhat respect that. I don't agree with that, but I can respect it.

Where I fundamentally disagree with you is where you desire specifically to punish those who had absolutely nothing to do with the issue. Sandusky will spend the rest of his life in jail. Anyone believed to have had any inkling of Sandusky's crime was jettisoned by the Penn State trustees even before all the facts were in.

If you are so set on punishing the residents of State College for unknowingly "enabling" Sandusky, why not punish the entire state of Pennsylvania? Why not give the death penalty to the entirety of NCAA football? Why not punish the entire United States of America?

[TIgreen01]

Again, and no one has answered this--what punishment for a football program that systematically looked the other way while young boys were systematically raped and abused for 14 years within the community you live in--is acceptable? As a member of a community where this occurred, what is a fair punishment?

It's not acceptable to me to limit the punishment to removing the human waste and going on with business as usual. It's not acceptable to me to simply do that and not punish the entity that enabled this to happen. If that damages the community, so be it. The two are intertwined for good or bad.

It's obviously not an Apples-Apples comparison due to the size and prestige gained by the football program at PSU, but if this were to have happened at UNT I'd be advocating the death penalty for the athletic department on the whole. I can't imagine wanting to be associated with the school at all, to be honest. But if pushed, in a situation like this, the university as a whole can continue on without athletics. It is not the end of the world for Penn St and is really the only honorable way for them to proceed from here, impo.

[UNT90]

It's obviously not an Apples-Apples comparison due to the size and prestige gained by the football program at PSU, but if this were to have happened at UNT I'd be advocating the death penalty for the athletic department on the whole. I can't imagine wanting to be associated with the school at all, to be honest. But if pushed, in a situation like this, the university as a whole can continue on without athletics. It is not the end of the world for Penn St and is really the only honorable way for them to proceed from here, impo.

Yep.

It would be interesting to see whether donations have increased or decreased to the Penn St. Athletic Department. With the mentality of happy valley, I'd bet it has increased.

If it happened here, my support would end. Abruptly.

Edited July 17, 2012 by UNT90

[LongJim]

First off, a football program does not have eyes so it could not look the other way. The people running it looked the other way. There are many football programs at the BCS level that have just as much power on campus as PSU does. Are you for shutting them down as well to avoid a potential problem?

I'm not going to argue semantics and beat straw men. Sorry.

And since you asked, I think a fair punishment would be to honor the current scholarships but not allow any new scholarships for 4 years. After the 4 year ban they can build back up at 25 schollys per year. For the 4 year span though, they will have to get by with walkons and players already in the program. Players within the program currently would be given the option to transfer penalty free if they wished, otherwise they could continue with their current status.

So essentially, the death penalty. I would go ahead and give them a 2 year ban on home games, and a 4 year ban on TV and bowls and give them the full meal deal.

[LongJim]

It would be interesting to see whether donations have increased or decreased to the Penn St. Athletic Department. With the mentality of happy valley, I'd bet it has increased.

They have increased. Substantially.

[SilverEagle]

They have increased. Substantially.

Good! Just that much more money for the victims when they sue.

more stuff happening....

http://tracking.si.com/2012/07/17/brown-changes-paterno-award-plane-banner-statue-removal/

[Mean Green 93-98]

They have increased. Substantially.

Yes. They increased because all Penn State's supporters believe strongly in supporting pedophilia. That's why they rewarded the institution that fired all those potentially associated with covering up Sandusky.

Or maybe, just maybe . . . they want to help Penn State move onto another chapter.

[UNT90]

Yes. They increased because all Penn State's supporters believe strongly in supporting pedophilia. That's why they rewarded the institution that fired all those potentially associated with covering up Sandusky.

Or maybe, just maybe . . . they want to help Penn State move onto another chapter.

Or... Maybe... Just maybe.... They still don't get it and don't care about any child victim as long as they get to watch good ole Penn St football on a fall Saturday afternoon.

I mean, it's not their kid, right?