Penn State football deserves death penalty for cover-up

Green P1 · July 12, 2012

I'm more concerned about making sure the victims are fnancially compensated beyond their wildest dreams than whether or not a football team gets their hand slapped.

Edited July 12, 2012 by Green P1

Green P1 · July 12, 2012

Do you really believe that by not reporting sexual abuse of young men by the defensive coordinator, Penn St did not gain a competitive advantage in recruiting?

If so... Well... I'm speechless.

Superfluously condescending. It just boggles your mind that not everyone agrees with your line of thinking doesnt it?

The Fake Lonnie Finch · July 12, 2012

Sandusky was there, using the facilites until November 2011. Because of the fantastic thing known as "legal hair-splitting" this is something within four years.

Ohio State was nailed for the tatoo and jersey coverup. It is now known that Penn State covered up until and even after Sandusky's arrest in November 2011...well within any four year time period.

And, they can throw it into "lack of institutional control." That's why the NCAA sent the letter to Penn State last November.

My guess is that the NCAA, using these guides, gives in to the enormous amount of public pressure and actually does the right thing - severly punishing Penn State.

Child molestation is sick. Hiding it certainly raises it to the level of the type of ethical problem Ohio State got nailed for in their cover up.

The beautiful thing, if there is any to be here, is that Big Ten school supporters always wagging their fingers about how dirty SEC and Big 12 schools are will finally acknowledge that cheating and scumbaggery occure in almost every corner of the college football world.

Edited July 12, 2012 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

Grant.UNT · July 12, 2012

the donations could be mainly to the school and not the athletic department....eff the athletic department with razor blades as much as possible and those four people that did nothing, but the school staff and students as a whole (new) nothing and shouldn't be punished. people are showing their support for the school with the donations and not the athletic department*

*didn't read your whole link, so i don't know for a fact that the donations were mainly to the school and not the athletic department...

You're a teacher. Knew is spelled with a K. You're better than that.

UNT90 · July 12, 2012

Superfluously condescending. It just boggles your mind that not everyone agrees with your line of thinking doesnt it?

Pretty self-descriptive post, don't you think?

Green P1 · July 12, 2012

Pretty self-descriptive post, don't you think?

Ah... The "I know you are but what am I?" defense. Typical.

UNT90 · July 12, 2012

Ah... The "I know you are but what am I?" defense. Typical.

Funny.

I almost typed that very thing in the post, but I decided to church it up.

So, shall we continue to discuss someone we can mutually hate?

MeanGreenTexan · July 12, 2012

Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight! :sword: :zoro:

UNT90 · July 12, 2012

My guess is that the NCAA, using these guides, gives in to the enormous amount of public pressure and actually does the right thing - severly punishing Penn State.

I admire your faith. I don't have it. I think the NCAA lays this all at the feet of criminal prosecution and barely gives Penn St. (a member of the Big 10, let's not forget, because that ABSOLUTELY matters) a slap on the wrist. There will be no death penalty, no bowl ban, and very little scholarship affect.

And the message will be sent to every FBS football school out there. Cheat your ever lovin butt off, because nothing major will be done (if you bring in enough money, that is).

Quoner · July 12, 2012

I like what Spencer Hall said: http://www.everydayshouldbesaturday.com/2012/7/2/3131827/the-gracepoint

UNT90 · July 12, 2012

I like what Spencer Hall said: http://www.everydays.../the-gracepoint

Again, they received an on field benefit for the last 14 years.

If you don't believe this, keep an eye on their commitment list the next couple of years.

I could care less what they do with a stupid statue.

The Fake Lonnie Finch · July 12, 2012

Well, you have to understand that lawyering lives and breathes in the gray areas. Look at the Obamacare Supreme Court case - King Solomon, I mean, Justice Roberts said that the Commerce Clause cannot be used to forced people to buy things and that the Congress had the power to levy taxes: "Okay, it's not Constitutional via the Commerce Clause, but Congress can levy taxes. Thank you all. Tip your waitresses on the way out the door."

The scope to which the NCAA can use the word "ethical" in the bylaws can easily encompass the soulless scumbags at Penn State.

The NCAA will do the right thing. The pressure will be too great for them not to do so. Lawyers, and the NCAA has theirs, too, can make a law say pretty much whatever they wish. Law school trains you to promote and defend both sides of an issue.

"Yes, it appears to read that the NCAA can only do certain things, but look at this wording over there and combine it with the actions of the folks at Penn State, and recall the coverup peeps at Ohio State last year."

One thing is for sure: the longer a legal document is (such as by-laws tend to be), the more area for lawyers to crawl around in and find somewhere to hang there hats.

Green P1 · July 12, 2012

Again, they received an on field benefit for the last 14 years.

If you don't believe this, keep an eye on their commitment list the next couple of years.

You mean the first couple years post Paterno? Okay. Your point?

Quoner · July 12, 2012

Again, they received an on field benefit for the last 14 years.

If you don't believe this, keep an eye on their commitment list the next couple of years.

I could care less what they do with a stupid statue.

I just showed up. I'm not GreenP1 and wasn't joining the slap fight, but thanks for keeping me up to speed on your thoughts and moderating this thread. Peace out.

UNT90 · July 12, 2012

You mean the first couple years post Paterno? Okay. Your point?

That they would not have been able to recruit the same athletes in the late 90s and early 2000s if their current (at the time) defensive coordinator had been prosecuted for sexually assaulting children.

They delayed this for 14 years in which they gained a competitve advantage.

oldguystudent · July 12, 2012

Will Sandusky get conjugal visits?

MeanGreenTexan · July 12, 2012

Will Sandusky get conjugal visits?

Yeah.

From Ray-Ray and Scarface on cell block D.

TheTastyGreek · July 12, 2012

Forget penalties or reprimands or sanctions.

Why does/would/should the NCAA allow Penn State to maintain membership?

The NCAA's Core Values include the following (bold text direct from the NCAA):

The highest levels of integrity and sportsmanship

The supporting role that intercollegiate athletics plays in the higher education mission and in enhancing the sense of community and strengthening the identity of member institutions

Presidential leadership of intercollegiate athletics at the campus, conference and national levels.

3 out of 7 core values, Penn State has knowingly and willfully violated for a decade and a half with their handling of the Sandusky situation. Not the football program, or the athletics department... But the institution as a whole.

The most recent update to Rule 2.4 was in 1996. It reads:

2.4 THE PRINCIPLE OF SPORTSMANSHIP AND ETHICAL CONDUCT [*]

For intercollegiate athletics to promote the character development of participants, to enhance the integrity of

higher education and to promote civility in society, student-athletes, coaches, and all others associated with these

athletics programs and events should adhere to such fundamental values as respect, fairness, civility, honesty and

responsibility. These values should be manifest not only in athletics participation, but also in the broad spectrum
of activities affecting the athletics program.

That's Page 4 of the 350+ page Division 1 manual. Way before all the crap about tattoos and shoes and text messages.

Why shouldn't the NCAA just expel Penn State completely?

meangreendork · July 12, 2012

That they would not have been able to recruit the same athletes in the late 90s and early 2000s if their current (at the time) defensive coordinator had been prosecuted for sexually assaulting children.

They delayed this for 14 years in which they gained a competitve advantage.

I'm interested to see what this does to their casual and die-hard fanbase, and I'm really interested to see what happens with donor funding and any 3rd-party sponsorships.

And I'm even more interested to see what happens if this is proven to be university-wide and not just limited to the football program (as it's already at this point now.)

CMJ · July 12, 2012

Forget penalties or reprimands or sanctions.

Why does/would/should the NCAA allow Penn State to maintain membership?

The NCAA's Core Values include the following (bold text direct from the NCAA):

3 out of 7 core values, Penn State has knowingly and willfully violated for a decade and a half with their handling of the Sandusky situation. Not the football program, or the athletics department... But the institution as a whole.

The most recent update to Rule 2.4 was in 1996. It reads:

That's Page 4 of the 350+ page Division 1 manual. Way before all the crap about tattoos and shoes and text messages.

Why shouldn't the NCAA just expel Penn State completely?

Probably because Penn State could sue the hell out of the NCAA. I think they'd win a lawsuit if the NCAA gave them the death penalty, much less threw them out altogether.

greenminer · July 12, 2012

If Sandusky had been fired and prosecuted 14 years ago, Penn State might have (depending on how it would have unfolded) been portrayed as the hero that caught the sicko. Recruiting might have been okay.

It's the 14 years of cover up which is going to hurt Penn State.

Thank you Tasty and MeanGreenDork for articulating why this should fall under NCAA sanctions.

...in way that doesn't seem like an overbearing, every-other-post-in-this-thread, opinion.

Edited July 12, 2012 by greenminer

UNT90 · July 12, 2012

Probably because Penn State could sue the hell out of the NCAA. I think they'd win a lawsuit if the NCAA gave them the death penalty, much less threw them out altogether.

I don't know:

From the NCAA Constitution:

2.1.2 Scope of Responsibility. [*] The institution’s responsibility for the conduct of its intercollegiate athletics program includes responsibility for the actions of its staff members and for the actions of any other individual or organization engaged in activities promoting the athletics interests of the institution

UNT90 · July 12, 2012

If Sandusky had been fired and prosecuted 14 years ago, Penn State might have (depending on how it would have unfolded) been portrayed as the hero that caught the sicko. Recruiting might have been okay.

It's the 14 years of cover up which is going to hurt Penn State.

Thank you Tasty and MeanGreenDork for articulating why this should fall under NCAA sanctions.

...in way that doesn't seem like an overbearing, every-other-post-in-this-thread, opinion.

Screw every other, let's go 2 in a row.

I actually agreed with you in an overbearing, every other post in this thread type of way.

NT1978 · July 12, 2012

We can just be thankful that Paterno won that game on October 29 or there would have been at least another week of coverup.

The Fake Lonnie Finch · July 12, 2012

Forget penalties or reprimands or sanctions.

Why does/would/should the NCAA allow Penn State to maintain membership?

The NCAA's Core Values include the following (bold text direct from the NCAA):

3 out of 7 core values, Penn State has knowingly and willfully violated for a decade and a half with their handling of the Sandusky situation. Not the football program, or the athletics department... But the institution as a whole.

The most recent update to Rule 2.4 was in 1996. It reads:

That's Page 4 of the 350+ page Division 1 manual. Way before all the crap about tattoos and shoes and text messages.

Why shouldn't the NCAA just expel Penn State completely?

See, there...and, Tasty's not even a lawyer yet! There will be plenty of ways for the NCAA to find cause for killing Penn State over their inaction regarding the molested boys and action in protecting the molester.

Also, I'd like to see Penn State put up yet another legal front. As it is they will be getting dozens of lawsuits over this already. How many lawsuits will the Board be willing to withstand financially?