Expect swift opinions in Supreme Court health care ruling

[UNT90]

Get ready for the government to be involved in EVERY aspect of your life, from what you eat to how mich alcohol you drink.

The really sad news is that the idiotic republicans nominated someone who CANT run against Pres. Obama on an issue which is huge to many Americans, and one in which only 36 percent of Americans agree with the President.

So freaking stupid.

Edited June 28, 2012 by UNT90

[Monkeypox]

I agree with 100% of what you say, especially about the hypocondriacs and their desire for cheap co-pays. Nothing really changes. So, it's hard for me to get worked up about it. It's more Democrats versus Republican garbage. People have got to outgrow it.

Oh, exactly. I think the thing that bothers me most is the one-sided rhetoric from both ends. On one hand, I work in the medical field and am surrounded by conservatives talking about how this is the end of America. In my side work, I write and work on films with an entirely different crowd of artsy trust-fund babies who've lived most of their lives on someone else's dime.

They're both screaming today, and both of their world's are equally intellectually insular.

[UNT90]

Wonder what part of the Chicago Political Mob got to Chief Justice Roberts?

The sad thing is Republicans keep nominating judges that end up going over to the liberal block on the court. Stephens and Roberts are both Republican appointees, and both severely disappointed this week with decisions that, arguably, ignore the constitution. Health care is a tax? Please.

The ramafications of today's decisions go way beyond health care.

[GreenGuy123]

Get ready for the government to be involved in EVERY aspect of your life, from what you eat to how mich alcohol you drink.

The really sad news is that the idiotic republicans nominated someone who CANT run against Pres. Obama on an issue which is huge to many Americans, and one in which only 36 percent of Americans agree with the President.

So freaking stupid.

The government already controls every aspect of my life. Patriot Act. Drug Prohibition. Reproductive/Family Planning. Car Inspections. I can't buy beer before noon on Sundays. Car Inspections. Etc.

[Censored by Laurie]

Get ready for the government to be involved in EVERY aspect of your life, from what you eat to how mich alcohol you drink.

The really sad news is that the idiotic republicans nominated someone who CANT run against Pres. Obama on an issue which is huge to many Americans, and one in which only 36 percent of Americans agree with the President.

So freaking stupid.

Holy crap! Is the government gonna take away our melodramatic hyperbolic rants, too?!?!

[CMJ]

Actually, it's a tax disguised as a penalty

Just thought I'd throw that in there.

So, yes....

Health care is a tax? Please.

You answered your own question.

Edited June 28, 2012 by CMJ

[UNTexas]

This taxation could prove to be a Trojan Horse for this administration. Obama is now a blatant liar and a lot of people are going to be pissed. "No one that makes under $250,000 will see a tax increase", repeated thousands of times. Not to mention the POTUS giving reporters verbal lashing when calling this a tax. If it is not a tax, then it is unconstitutional. Since it is a tax he has some explaining to do.

I predict the GOP cleans up in the House of Representatives and Senate. This is going to hurt Obama. So will he and Holder's cover up regarding Fast and Furious and the murder of US Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry. Holder is a disgrace and I hope he is indicted by the Grand Jury. Executive privilege worked well for Nixon.

Almost forgot, Obama will also have to explain why DHS is no longer enforcing immigration law under under the shroud of "discretion", which is said right after the Feds turned their backs completely on Arizona and our nations laws.

Sad week.

Edited June 29, 2012 by UNTexas

[UNT90]

Holy crap! Is the government gonna take away our melodramatic hyperbolic rants, too?!?!

Let's revisit this in 10 years, then we can discuss whether it is a "melodramatic hyperbolic rant."

Individual freedoms have been disappearing for the last 20 years under both political parties. This is just another step in that direction, although I would call it more of a leap than a step.

[UNT90]

This taxation could prove to be a Trojan Horse for this administration. Obama is now a blatant liar and a lot of people are going to be pissed. "No one that makes under $250,000 will see a tax increase", repeated thousands of times. Not to mention the POTUS giving reporters verbal lashing when calling this a tax. If it is not a tax, then it is unconstitutional. Since it is a tax he has some explaining to do.

I predict the GOP cleans up in the House of Representatives and Senate. This is going to hurt Obama. So will he and Holder's cover up regarding Fast and Furious and the murder of US Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry. Holder is a disgrace and I hope he is indicted by the Grand Jury. Executive privilege worked well for Nixon.

Almost forgot, Obama will also have to explain why DHS is no longer enforcing immigration law under under the shroud of "discretion", which is said right after the Feds turned their backs completely on Arizona and our nations laws.

Sad week.

I think you are right about the house and senate, but sadly wrong about this hurting Pres. Obama. The man who came up with this premise is running against Pres. Obama, and Pres. Obama will point that out at every turn.

[UNTexas]

I think you are right about the house and senate, but sadly wrong about this hurting Pres. Obama. The man who came up with this premise is running against Pres. Obama, and Pres. Obama will point that out at every turn.

He can point it out all day but Romney just has to point out the fact that he lied to achieve his agenda and let the people know it is going to hit their bank accounts. The average person will hear bank account. 30 million people are going to gain health care on the backs of tax payers. Not to mention the Bush tax cuts are ending. Taxes are going to sky rocket.

The economy is still garbage. Unemployment is still high. Today handed the GOP more ammunition for the campaign. I think we may see a one term president. I truly believe this is an example of winning the battle but losing the war.

I heard a spokesperson for the DNC tonight who worded it pretty well. He said there were positives for everyone today. Obama got his bill and the GOP has a fired up base and probably a lot of independents. Either way we look at it, it's going to get ugly from now until November politically.

Edited June 29, 2012 by UNTexas

[Mad Hatter]

So is the logic by the SCOTUS that since Congress has the ability to set/levee taxes, even if they're based on bad reasoning, they still have the ability to do it?

Does that mean that with control of the House and Senate, Repubilicans wouldn't have to overturn Roe vs Wade, they could simply levee a $50k tax for having an abortion? Then it doesn't come down to the constituional argument of someone's "rights", it only comes down to "Hey, we can pass taxes for anything we want to dictate behavior"?

Slippery slope.

[FirefightnRick]

Let's revisit this in 10 years, then we can discuss whether it is a "melodramatic hyperbolic rant."

Individual freedoms have been disappearing for the last 20 years under both political parties. This is just another step in that direction, although I would call it more of a leap than a step.

That's the problem I don't understand most, how it is that people can so easily dismiss the damage, future damage this decision and it's precedent will have on our society, and so easly dismiss how Roberts came about coming to his conclusion? It sounds like to me he pulled the "Individual Mandate is a Tax" POV out of his ass.

The speculations as to where he came up with it vary and I doubt we will ever get a clear picture on it?

Rick

[eulessismore]

I think you are right about the house and senate, but sadly wrong about this hurting Pres. Obama. The man who came up with this premise is running against Pres. Obama, and Pres. Obama will point that out at every turn.

Well, I think you've gotten to the heart of the matter. I'm sure that Romney will try to finesse this (a mandate at the state instead of the federal level, therefore States Rights?), but not sure what else he did while governor of Massachusetts.

[UNTflyer]

I think you are right about the house and senate, but sadly wrong about this hurting Pres. Obama. The man who came up with this premise is running against Pres. Obama, and Pres. Obama will point that out at every turn.

That's easy to counter. It's called the Tenth Amendment. States have the right to impose compulsory health insurance, the federal government does not (unless it's called a tax, I suppose).

[UNTexas]

That's easy to counter. It's called the Tenth Amendment. States have the right to impose compulsory health insurance, the federal government does not (unless it's called a tax, I suppose).

Pretty good evaluation. He will stick with it was good for Massachusetts but not 50 states. It just made the debate continue. Roberts may just be an evil genius.

[DeepGreen]

My Sicilian background tells me that Chief Justice Roberts could have been on the take from the day Obama emphatically said that this was not a tax. Don't laugh, when you deal with Chicago politics, anything can happen.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

There are many things taxed that you don't even know about. The tax code is huge. In law school, because I'm a glutton for punishment, I took both Federal Income Taxation and Taxation of Shareholders and Corporations.

Our text was simple - the big, fat IRS tax code. Here is an exemplary list of taxes related to employee benefit, such are health plans: http://benefitslink.com/taxcode/

Justice Roberts cut the Commerce Clause approach off, but had to yield to the tax code. He did so because, unlike most of the other Justices who, now and in the past, put their political beliefs above strict readings of the Constitution and laws, he is honest.

The thing is, honesty doesn't play well in the political arena. And, so, for his honesty, he's pilloried by the Right and given too much credit by the Left. People say they don't want Justices who "legislate from the bench." Okay, fine. Justice Roberts, here, did not legislate from the bench. He tackled the law as written and in yielding to its tax provision, essentially kicked it back to the Legislative Branch,

Therefore, future Legislators may kill the bill without killing the bill by making laws changing that part of the code - the part Justice Roberts was kind enough to point out. It is now up to the Legislators to do their job and kill it accordingly.

In the House, the Republicans have the numbers to do so, but not in the Senate. Nor do they hold the Presidency. It is up to the GOP, then, to put their best candidates forward for Senate and President. If they do so, the bill can be gutted from within.

The lazy route to get what you want - The Judicial Branch - has largely been used by Liberals. Here, Conservatives attempted a Judicial end-around legislation they didn't like. They only got some of what they wanted, but not everything. Justice Roberts showed them the legislative chink in the armor. It is up to them to get off their collective asses, quit whining, and put forth electable candidates for Senate and President.

[UNT90]

Pretty good evaluation. He will stick with it was good for Massachusetts but not 50 states. It just made the debate continue. Roberts may just be an evil genius.

Most voting Americans will not see what Romney did as a states issue. Most voting Americans couldnt tell you what states rights are.

Even if Romney is elected, he will not have the political will to get rid of this health care plan.

He isn't a conservative, amd pretending to be one will end the day he takes office.

[untbowler]

Pretty good evaluation. He will stick with it was good for Massachusetts but not 50 states. It just made the debate continue. Roberts may just be an evil genius.

He could point out that it was good for Mass. but looking back it has been a disaster with huge budget overruns. The CBO has already said Obamacare will be well over budget.

[oldguystudent]

There are many things taxed that you don't even know about. The tax code is huge. In law school, because I'm a glutton for punishment, I took both Federal Income Taxation and Taxation of Shareholders and Corporations.

I am consistently amused at people who think the tax code could be a single page long. "Just tax everything at 15%! Woot!" Yeah...No.

[oldguystudent]

So is the logic by the SCOTUS that since Congress has the ability to set/levee taxes, even if they're based on bad reasoning, they still have the ability to do it?

Does that mean that with control of the House and Senate, Repubilicans wouldn't have to overturn Roe vs Wade, they could simply levee a $50k tax for having an abortion? Then it doesn't come down to the constituional argument of someone's "rights", it only comes down to "Hey, we can pass taxes for anything we want to dictate behavior"?

Slippery slope.

That is really an interesting point. There are already many taxes in place based on behavior. Alcohol and cigarettes would be the most obvious examples. I think the federal government would have one HELL of a time passing an abortion tax, but it wouldn't surprise me at all to see one or more of the southern states do it and use this decision as precedent.

[UNT90]

I am consistently amused at people who think the tax code could be a single page long. "Just tax everything at 15%! Woot!" Yeah...No.

Says the guy who would be out of a job if that happened...

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

I am consistently amused at people who think the tax code could be a single page long. "Just tax everything at 15%! Woot!" Yeah...No.

The tax code will never be eliminated because it is the best tool for fighting white collar crime. It's also handy for nabbing higher level drug dealers.

[GreenBat]

Here is link that explains the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act as well as I've seen it explained.

http://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/vb8vs/eli5_what_exactly_is_obamacare_and_what_did_it/c530lfx

Sorry it's not from a credible news source, but this guy on reddit.com spent a lot of time putting it together. He has plenty of citations and links were he got the information.

[UNT90]

Here is link that explains the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act as well as I've seen it explained.

http://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/vb8vs/eli5_what_exactly_is_obamacare_and_what_did_it/c530lfx

Sorry it's not from a credible news source, but this guy on reddit.com spent a lot of time putting it together. He has plenty of citations and links were he got the information.

This post is so funny yet so sad.

2 years later and experts still can't interpret this monstrosity