Athletic Fee Increase

[MeanGreenTexan]

up to and until the donations by the Vortemans and Charn RV was responsible for some of the largest donations in the history of the entire university....not just the athletics, but the entire university

the Wornack Tennis Center, the Goldfields, and Mattress Mac (even though he was a DD friend)

the entire university and "system" suffers from a lack of donations and poor fundraising and it starts at the top with the idiot lee jackson that was actually hired because he was a "heavy hitter" and it goes on to his buddy bill lively that ran out on UNT after 9 months when he promised to stay a year to three years

the turn over in leadership at UNT does not help that is for sure and I am sure it will continue and the divergent priorities between pulling stuff out of Denton, trying to start things that are not needed in downtown dallas, and having the ghetto campus eat resources sure does not help either

RV was around for at least 3 million+ donations to the athletics program and the 20 million deal with Apogee which was about 15 million in cash and 5 million or so in "services" to the university

I would find it hard to blame the AD of a university for poor fundraising when he has improved so much since he has been here even before the student fees and when he was around for several donations that were near the previous record for the largest donations in the history of the entire university along with the naming rights deal from some company most people have never heard of and when the entire university and pseudo system sucks at fundraising in a huge way starting with the "heavy hitter" lee the idiot

CHEERS! Are we friends now?

[GrandGreen]

up to and until the donations by the Vortemans and Charn RV was responsible for some of the largest donations in the history of the entire university....not just the athletics, but the entire university

the Wornack Tennis Center, the Goldfields, and Mattress Mac (even though he was a DD friend)

the entire university and "system" suffers from a lack of donations and poor fundraising and it starts at the top with the idiot lee jackson that was actually hired because he was a "heavy hitter" and it goes on to his buddy bill lively that ran out on UNT after 9 months when he promised to stay a year to three years

the turn over in leadership at UNT does not help that is for sure and I am sure it will continue and the divergent priorities between pulling stuff out of Denton, trying to start things that are not needed in downtown dallas, and having the ghetto campus eat resources sure does not help either

RV was around for at least 3 million+ donations to the athletics program and the 20 million deal with Apogee which was about 15 million in cash and 5 million or so in "services" to the university

I would find it hard to blame the AD of a university for poor fundraising when he has improved so much since he has been here even before the student fees and when he was around for several donations that were near the previous record for the largest donations in the history of the entire university along with the naming rights deal from some company most people have never heard of and when the entire university and pseudo system sucks at fundraising in a huge way starting with the "heavy hitter" lee the idiot

The truth is if you want to investigate RV had little to do with any of the donations you cited, and even if he did that is over a decade period. The Apogee deal like most college naming right deals is for far less than $20m. It is loaded with services instead of cash and most of the cash payments are contracted for later years which if NT does receive them, the value will be less. I am not knocking the deal and don't know how much the AD was involved, however there is a difference in advertising and donations.

I wonder why you knock almost everything about NT, but rise to defend RV. Who by the way, I didn't think I was attacking but stating the obvious. RV has not got a lot of donations, and it may very well be because he does not have the resources in terms of staff and/or time. So why not split that function off, it may not work, but I don't see much risk ether.

[GL2Greatness]

Our traditional liberal arts school just doesn't graduate many people that go on to be wealthy. To generate the type of funds we need, our focus must be on improving our Business and Science programs, and I think letting the School of Law go to UNT-Dallas was a big mistake.

that law school (if it ever gets funded to open which will be a major mistake) will graduate people that will be broke, legal jobless, and in debt for the next 40 or so years of their life they will not be giving any massive dollars back to anyone and they will probably be so pissed off after they finally land their law clerk job (if any) or they finally get their debts paid off that they will never give another cent to anything academic related ever

the stupid law school is part of the reason that unt-Denton can't invest in science and business......because they are busy eating up and wasting "system" resources (see Denton campus students resources) on stupid and unneeded crap in dallas that is failing or will fail if it ever gets opened

you do not understand that The State of Texas is not funding the vast majority of the law school and they will not fund the vast majority of the cost to open it and they will fund next to no cost of the operation of the law school if it opens

they will fund a very small portion of start up cost and then it is REQUIRED that the program be self funding and that either means tuition dollars or "system" resources and also dallas has already welched on the cost of renovating the old municiple building and The State of Texas is not and will not fund the renovations to the UCD buildings even if they fund some of the start up cost for the law school......those renovation cost fall on the "system" and they are to the tune of millions and millions

that is part of why Dr. B got cross wise with lee the idiot....because the "system" (unT-Denton students) paid to buy the UCD building against the wishes of the THECB and even after they bought the building it was agreed that any and all universities (UTA and TAMU-Commerce at the time) that wished to hold classes would be accomidated and in fact it was contractually obligated....but once the stupid law school got a small bit of traction and lee the idiot started to move control of the "system" out of Denton the unT "system" told TAMU-Commerce (that actually provides the majority of students to the UCD) that they were giving them the boot and even started to look at giving "unT" the boot as well and they would have to find a new place to hold classes.....all while the unT-system (see denton students) were paying for the purchase of the building and then funding the renovations for the "system" office and looking at having to fund the renovations for the upper two floors for the stupid law school

it is theft of "system" (see Denton campus students) resources for failed dallas economic development projects

the unT "system" consist of Denton, TCOM that never wanted to be merged and tries to keep as distant as possible, and the ghetto campus that can't even afford to pay for the new building they just built against the recomendation of the THECB and without the funding of The State of Texas so ol' lee the idiot did some "belt tightening" for the "system" and built the building bigger anyway

who in the hell do you think pays for that?.....TCOM students don't because if they did TCOM would say bye bye to the "system" and they would go merge with some other system that is not so poorly run.....and the ghetto campus students surely are not paying for that building to be built too large because of they were the "system" would not ahve needed to "tighten their belt" and fund it for them and lee has already admitted that The State of Texas may never pay for the building to be larger than needed in a "calculated gamble"

so it is Denton students paying that tab and doing without and being put in Tshacks for several years (or longer) when the union renovations start

and it will be denton students paying to renovate the UCD for the stupid law school after dallas welched and it will be Denton students paying for the purchase of that building and it will be Denton students paying for a new UCD building if the UCD even stays in operation of they are tossed from the old building and it is Denton students paying for the failed investment in the residential building next to the UCD as well that lee the idiot bought against the recomendations of the THECB as well and that The State of Texas will NEVER fund ever because Texas does not fund dorms or living space at any public university they are self funded and since that building is not meeting projections even after being iopened to non-students it will be "system" (see Denton students) that tote the note on it as well

the law school will be a joke for decades if it even gets funded

[GL2Greatness]

The truth is if you want to investigate RV had little to do with any of the donations you cited, and even if he did that is over a decade period. The Apogee deal like most college naming right deals is for far less than $20m. It is loaded with services instead of cash and most of the cash payments are contracted for later years which if NT does receive them, the value will be less. I am not knocking the deal and don't know how much the AD was involved, however there is a difference in advertising and donations.

I wonder why you knock almost everything about NT, but rise to defend RV. Who by the way, I didn't think I was attacking but stating the obvious. RV has not got a lot of donations, and it may very well be because he does not have the resources in terms of staff and/or time. So why not split that function off, it may not work, but I don't see much risk ether.

I defend RV because I deal in the realm of reality...the reality is that the vast majority of ADs at schools in the USA have only a small part in overall athletics fund raising and at unT his hands are tied by incompetence even if he was a great fund raiser......because unT has a piss poor overall fund raising history and infrastructure and that will continue for several more years at least

ADs can set the priorities for what they would like money for and they can hit people up, but at the end of the day at all but probably 15-20 programs in the country the university itself will carry the water on the actual fund raising.....the AD might look like the front man to some donors even bigger ones, but it will be after he has been given "license" by the university staff to go in for the kill and after the amounts he is angling for have been discussed and probably after that donor has had contact with other development staff....the AD might be like the floor manager at a car lot, but the F&I guy and the guy in the "tower or box" will really be calling the overall shots and closing the full deal....the AD and his staff did a lot of the selling, but the others had to give the OK and then make the real deal happen

RV was hung out to dry by all the moron hurley when he first came to unT and he was allowed to go before an enthusiastic audience and talk about needing 90 million and to set some big goals, then when it came time to get to work al the moron pulled the rug out from under him and told him no deal you will get nothing and like it

RV has big goals, and I am sure it is hard for him to hold back, but he has been screwed one too many times and that is why he is much less public now about what the goals are and that is why he is not out there beating every bush for cash

al the idiot screwed him and he took it.....then Dr. Pohl came along and RV was re-energized until Dr. Pohl was worn down by apathetic faculty resistant to change especially for a guy that had been the side kick to the fool hurley for so long (why change if you think you can keep the status quo) and then Dr. B was better than expected, but athletics was not her first priority (peace studies and charity for C students was) and even though she was athletics friendly for the most part RV was just getting warmed up with her when she had to start to fight her own battles to do what she was hired to do which was to run a university not fund a system doing economic development in downtown and ghetto dallas......then she was fired.....VLR is pretty decent. but RV is smart enough to know that a guy that is in his 70s will not be around for ever and he will be gone sooner than later so RV is not going to go out on a huge limb even now with an athletics friendly guy like VLR around because VLR might not be around tomorrow and the next guy or girl might have a totally different plan and there will be RV with his dick in his hand again and unfulfilled plans yet again and a new boss that might be tired of hearing about RV and wants change

look how can someone think that RV can be this huge "rainmaker" when the BOR prevented him from firing DD and when Dr. B made him hire 50 feet of heat and tons of mizz tuddy to go with that heat (and a lot of suck and losing).....RV has pride, he has a plan, and he will work to make it happen, but he is not going to lose his job over it and he is not going to be made to be the fool again or the scape goat when the eventual change comes again at the top

[Harry]

Since I have two kids who soon I will be helping pay for college do I get a vote? Or two?

[Eagle1855]

I'm amused at the enthusiasm to be "all-in" with an athletics fee that few/not all of us actually pay.

Right. I assume everyone that is "all in" on this fee hike is also donating at least the maximum amount students can pay, each year. Seems to me, if you had as many alums donating as much as the students put in, we'd be in really good shape.

Which one do you think has more disposable income?

[GreenBat]

I say for every $500,000 the Department raises, they raise the student service fee.

That way both Alumni and Students are contributing.

[meangreendork]

"Can't invest in business or science."

*cough* Business Leadership Building *cough* Zero Energy Lab

[oldguystudent]

That Rick doesn't go out and publicly pat himself on the back for everything he's done doesn't mean he's not bringing in the cash. I've mentioned many times that I don't understand his perennial cloak and dagger tactics, but he gets it done.

Without Rick, there's no Apogee, no CUSA, no Mac, no Benford, no hope of baseball, and no hope of eventually being a real player in CUSA.

The man is tireless and bends over backward for UNT. Some here apparently have some personal issues with him. Doesn't mean he's not doing his job and doing it well.

Edit - Incidentally, if anyone wants to approach Rick about some long term, unorthodox giving plans, something tells me he'll take your phone call.

Edited June 14, 2012 by oldguystudent

[Mean Green 93-98]

That Rick doesn't go out and publicly pat himself on the back for everything he's done doesn't mean he's not bringing in the cash. I've mentioned many times that I don't understand his perennial cloak and dagger tactics, but he gets it done.

Without Rick, there's no Apogee, no CUSA, no Mac, no Benford, no hope of baseball, and no hope of eventually being a real player in CUSA.

The man is tireless and bends over backward for UNT. Some here apparently have some personal issues with him. Doesn't mean he's not doing his job and doing it well.

Edit - Incidentally, if anyone wants to approach Rick about some long term, unorthodox giving plans, something tells me he'll take your phone call.

*Sigh* As I thought was made fairly obvious, GrandGreen's point had nothing to do with overall job assessment or personal like/dislike. The point was We need more money, and we cannot realistically expect RV to raise it alone, or with the staff and resources he presently has.

[meangreendork]

*Sigh* As I thought was made fairly obvious, GrandGreen's point had nothing to do with overall job assessment or personal like/dislike. The point was We need more money, and we cannot realistically expect RV to raise it alone, or with the staff and resources he presently has.

That I do agree with. He's good at what he does, but he's just one person.

[Proud North Texan]

This fee should be raised the maximum amount EVERY time it is eligible to be raised.

Otherwise, we are just not being serious about our athletic programs. Yes, outside revenue raising also needs increasing, but we should not be ignoring ANY opportunity to raise funding for athletics.

I agree

[GrandGreen]

I defend RV because I deal in the realm of reality...the reality is that the vast majority of ADs at schools in the USA have only a small part in overall athletics fund raising and at unT his hands are tied by incompetence even if he was a great fund raiser......because unT has a piss poor overall fund raising history and infrastructure and that will continue for several more years at least

ADs can set the priorities for what they would like money for and they can hit people up, but at the end of the day at all but probably 15-20 programs in the country the university itself will carry the water on the actual fund raising.....the AD might look like the front man to some donors even bigger ones, but it will be after he has been given "license" by the university staff to go in for the kill and after the amounts he is angling for have been discussed and probably after that donor has had contact with other development staff....the AD might be like the floor manager at a car lot, but the F&I guy and the guy in the "tower or box" will really be calling the overall shots and closing the full deal....the AD and his staff did a lot of the selling, but the others had to give the OK and then make the real deal happen

RV was hung out to dry by all the moron hurley when he first came to unT and he was allowed to go before an enthusiastic audience and talk about needing 90 million and to set some big goals, then when it came time to get to work al the moron pulled the rug out from under him and told him no deal you will get nothing and like it

RV has big goals, and I am sure it is hard for him to hold back, but he has been screwed one too many times and that is why he is much less public now about what the goals are and that is why he is not out there beating every bush for cash

al the idiot screwed him and he took it.....then Dr. Pohl came along and RV was re-energized until Dr. Pohl was worn down by apathetic faculty resistant to change especially for a guy that had been the side kick to the fool hurley for so long (why change if you think you can keep the status quo) and then Dr. B was better than expected, but athletics was not her first priority (peace studies and charity for C students was) and even though she was athletics friendly for the most part RV was just getting warmed up with her when she had to start to fight her own battles to do what she was hired to do which was to run a university not fund a system doing economic development in downtown and ghetto dallas......then she was fired.....VLR is pretty decent. but RV is smart enough to know that a guy that is in his 70s will not be around for ever and he will be gone sooner than later so RV is not going to go out on a huge limb even now with an athletics friendly guy like VLR around because VLR might not be around tomorrow and the next guy or girl might have a totally different plan and there will be RV with his dick in his hand again and unfulfilled plans yet again and a new boss that might be tired of hearing about RV and wants change

look how can someone think that RV can be this huge "rainmaker" when the BOR prevented him from firing DD and when Dr. B made him hire 50 feet of heat and tons of mizz tuddy to go with that heat (and a lot of suck and losing).....RV has pride, he has a plan, and he will work to make it happen, but he is not going to lose his job over it and he is not going to be made to be the fool again or the scape goat when the eventual change comes again at the top

You know reading your post, I am not sure what is your point. My suggestion was to sever major athletic fund raising from the rest of the AD department. I can't tell if you are pro or con.

As far as RV and the many tangents your post took. I will only respond that there are very few if any jobs working for anyone were you independently make all the decisions. You pick and choose were to fight and if it is important enough to you; you will risk your job. RV has worked for four and not only survived but continued to prosper. I find it amazing that so many continue to view any negative as someone other than the AD's fault, but laud all the good things as his almost singular accomplishments. The AD is responsible for the good and the bad of NT's athletic activities.

[meaniegreenie]

That Rick doesn't go out and publicly pat himself on the back for everything he's done doesn't mean he's not bringing in the cash. I've mentioned many times that I don't understand his perennial cloak and dagger tactics, but he gets it done.

Without Rick, there's no Apogee, no CUSA, no Mac, no Benford, no hope of baseball, and no hope of eventually being a real player in CUSA.

The man is tireless and bends over backward for UNT. Some here apparently have some personal issues with him. Doesn't mean he's not doing his job and doing it well.

Edit - Incidentally, if anyone wants to approach Rick about some long term, unorthodox giving plans, something tells me he'll take your phone call.

Good points, but don't forget, we also wouldn't have had Dodge-ball.

More importantly, our helmets wouldn't say "North Texas"

[shaft]

"But in places like the MAC, I don't know how they'll keep up. They could issue bonds and keep raising student fees, but I think at some point, those are going to max out. Even at the self-supporting schools, I think the donors are going to max out at some point."

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8047787/college-football-facilities-arms-race-proves-recession-proof