Jerry Sandusky Trial

adman · July 2, 2012

If the NCAA can blast Dave Bliss (and rightfully so, to be sure), then they ought to be able to hit a target the size of the entire university at Penn State.

Nice touch.

UNTFan23 · July 2, 2012

Sandusky used the Penn St. football program to recruit, groom, and molest young boys. The university president, athletic director, and head football coach knew about his behavior and enabled that behavior. If this isn't the most egregious example of lack of institutional control, I dont know what would be.

If Sandusky had just committed these offenses in his private life without the knowledge, use, and, yes, help of the Penn St. athletic department and college president, then we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

The NCAA should be all over Penn St., but they won't be.

But the thing I want to point out is that none of the abuses involved a student athlete of the Penn State Athletics program. Yes, school athletic facilities were at Sandusky's disposal and administrators at various levels turned a blind eye including Athletic administrators, but still no student athletes were involved.

I keep going back to the Baylor situation with the intra-squad murder. They did a half-death penalty for the basketball team, and that was for one instance in one department (and primarily, one coach- Bliss).

This thing at Penn State is coach, president... all the way through the institution. And it wasn't one instance or one point in time... They sat on this information for years and years.

If the NCAA can blast Dave Bliss (and rightfully so, to be sure), then they ought to be able to hit a target the size of the entire university at Penn State.

In the case dealing with the Baylor basketball murder it involved a student athlete, so I feel the NCAA was right to step in and levy penalties.

Since some of you are out for blood, what kind of penalty should be levied against Penn State? Should it be just the football program or should the women's volleyball team also be punished?

TheTastyGreek · July 2, 2012

Nice touch.

That was actually unintentional. Just a coincidence that my accidental tastelessness was thematically consistent.

The Fake Lonnie Finch · July 2, 2012

Should it be the place of the NCAA to govern over something of this nature? It almost sounds like we're asking the NCAA to police something that really does not have very much to do with college athletics other than a college coach having access to a university's facilities. What if none of the abuses took place on university property and the only link between Sandusky and Penn State was a coach of of the football program during the time the sexual abuse took place -- should the NCAA be involved then?

Punish those responsible for the cover up; they didn't follow the law by not reporting the abuses to the authorities. I don't see how or why the NCAA should ever be involved in something like this unless it directly involves a university's student athletes.

OU's 1988/1989 Winter of players shooting each other, raping coeds, and dealing cocaine come to anyone else's mind? None of that happened on the field. So, why was OU responsible?

Let's be realistic folks. Penn State is responsible for what happened. At OU back then, at least you could say the president and administration had no knowledge of the goings on. At Penn State, the adminstration was deep in the child molesting problem, covering it up.

If OU could be sanctioned for the criminal offense that occured in the winter of 1988/89, Penn State can surely be sanctioned for harboring - and,I'd say, aiding and abetting - a child moelster for year, possibly a couple of decades or more.

Yes. NCAA, act.

The Fake Lonnie Finch · July 2, 2012

Also, as to uninvolved student athletes - why should OU have been given television and bowl probation back then? After all, only one players shot another. Three were involved in rape. One was selling cocaine.

So, for the sins of five, the whole squad was punished. Fair?

Fair isn't the point. The point is punishing wrong doing and sending a message to the other instiutions. And, again, Penn State covered up this abuse for years - willingly covered it up.

Four of the five OU players committed impulsive crimes - shooting and rape. Not much the school could do to prevent that. And, unless they were buying cocaine for the fifth, they really had no reason to know that was happening. Penn State is different and worse.

Penn State forced the guy to retire after catching wind of his molestation in the late 1990s. But, then, they still allowed him space on campus and access to the program and all its goodies. And, he used these thing to lure more boys into abuse - WITH PENN STATE'S FULL KNOWLEDGE.

Then, he's caught in the act of raping a boy and at least five adults - an assistant coach, the head coach, the athletic director, a school vice-president, and the president himself - cannot bring themselves to either stop him or kick him off campus. They bury the story.

It's horrible. There is no excuse for what happened at Penn State. They covered up a serial child abuser, and did so because of what might happen to the reputation of their university. It's wholly shameful.

Like OU in 1989, the NCAA should bring the hammer down of Penn State for Lack of Institutional Control. In fact, that's not even accurate enough. They should create a whole new set of penalties for Refusal to Acknowledge Institutional Control.

UNTFan23 · July 2, 2012

Like OU in 1989, the NCAA should bring the hammer down of Penn State for Lack of Institutional Control. In fact, that's not even accurate enough. They should create a whole new set of penalties for Refusal to Acknowledge Institutional Control.

If you were on the committee that was trying to determine a punishment, what would you want the penalty should be? Keep in mind who did the wrongful act of not reporting the activities of Sandusky to the police and covered up those acts and then consider who will ultimately bare the brunt of the punishment.

The Fake Lonnie Finch · July 2, 2012

I'd give them a one year death penalty, reinstating only after all personnel invloved in the coverup were gone - that includes the assistant McQueary.

After that, I'd have a two year television ban, and a three year bowl ban.

Joe Paterno and the program benefitted from not telling the truth for many years. We now know they all covered for the sake of the program and school. So, it makes no difference to me that the program would be damaged competitively by a death penalty, and lack of television and bowls. The program thought so little of vulnerable human beings, why should it matter to anyone that the program suffers?

I'd allow every Penn State player on scholarship to be able to transfer anywhere they wished in that four year window.

To me, it's a big deal that kids were abused with the full knowledge of several adults. The punishment should go beyond just the school paying the victims cash.

Edited July 2, 2012 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

TheTastyGreek · July 2, 2012

I'd give them a one year death penalty, reinstating only after all personnel invloved in the coverup were gone - that includes the assistant McQueary.

After that, I'd have a two year television ban, and a three year bowl ban.

Joe Paterno and the program benefitted from not telling the truth for many years. We now know they all covered for the sake of the program and school. So, it makes no difference to me that the program would be damaged competitively by a death penalty, and lack of television and bowls. The program thought so little of vulnerable human beings, why should it matter to anyone that the program suffers?

I'd allow every Penn State player on scholarship to be able to transfer anywhere they wished in that four year window.

To me, it's a big deal that kids were abused with the full knowledge of several adults. The punishment should go beyond just the school paying the victims cash.

I'd go beyond the football team. When it's not just the coaches of that program... But the athletics director AND the university president and at least one other university VP actually discussing the matter in code and pronouns, but never actually doing anything so as to avoid shutting off the money faucet... That's system-wide. Not just football.

As the brutal autocrat of NCAA sports, I'd do a 2 year death penalty, then 3 more years after that of bowl and television bans for football. And I'd institute a 2 year postseason ban for every scholarship sport that Penn State sponsors.

Same conditions, with immediate transfer eligibility for any athlete who chose to leave for another program. They don't have to be 'punished' for anything. And if they decide that finishing their education at Penn State is more important to them than athletic opportunity elsewhere, that's an informed choice, not a punishment.

If it killed Penn State sports, so be it. A charter member of the Big 10 survived (voluntarily) without scholarship sports, and they've managed to thrive as an academic institution. Their endowment is more than 4x that of Penn State, and they didn't have to turn their backs on child rape to bring in football money and donations to get to that point, either.

UNT90 · July 2, 2012

But the thing I want to point out is that none of the abuses involved a student athlete of the Penn State Athletics program. Yes, school athletic facilities were at Sandusky's disposal and administrators at various levels turned a blind eye including Athletic administrators, but still no student athletes were involved.

In the case dealing with the Baylor basketball murder it involved a student athlete, so I feel the NCAA was right to step in and levy penalties.

Since some of you are out for blood, what kind of penalty should be levied against Penn State? Should it be just the football program or should the women's volleyball team also be punished?

It depends on if you think the sole purpose of the NCAA is to police actions only involving student athletes, and not athletic programs and universities dealings with their respective athletic programs.

The NCAA punished SMU for the athletic department willfully turning a blind eye to payments of recruits by boosters. The Penn St. athletic department willfully turned a blind eye, and even protected, a coach who used the Penn St. football program and facilities to molest young boys.

It seems to me an active member of a coaching staff using the program to commit 45 sexaul related felonies and the university basically becoming an accomplice (I know, maybe a tad strong) would absolutely fall under the jurisdiction of the NCAA.

If they wanted it to, that is.

TIgreen01 · July 2, 2012

I'd give them a one year death penalty, reinstating only after all personnel invloved in the coverup were gone - that includes the assistant McQueary.

After that, I'd have a two year television ban, and a three year bowl ban.

Joe Paterno and the program benefitted from not telling the truth for many years. We now know they all covered for the sake of the program and school. So, it makes no difference to me that the program would be damaged competitively by a death penalty, and lack of television and bowls. The program thought so little of vulnerable human beings, why should it matter to anyone that the program suffers?

I'd allow every Penn State player on scholarship to be able to transfer anywhere they wished in that four year window.

To me, it's a big deal that kids were abused with the full knowledge of several adults. The punishment should go beyond just the school paying the victims cash.

I agree 100%, on all counts except the penalty. I'd make it much, much stiffer. They covered this up for at least 15 years. I'd shut down the football program for good. This is a school that went from having almost no endowment, to one of the richest schools in the entire nation. They covered this up to protect their endowment. Shut them down permanently....at minimum 5 years.

Edited July 2, 2012 by TIgreen01

UNT90 · July 2, 2012

I'd go beyond the football team. When it's not just the coaches of that program... But the athletics director AND the university president and at least one other university VP actually discussing the matter in code and pronouns, but never actually doing anything so as to avoid shutting off the money faucet... That's system-wide. Not just football.

As the brutal autocrat of NCAA sports, I'd do a 2 year death penalty, then 3 more years after that of bowl and television bans for football. And I'd institute a 2 year postseason ban for every scholarship sport that Penn State sponsors.

Same conditions, with immediate transfer eligibility for any athlete who chose to leave for another program. They don't have to be 'punished' for anything. And if they decide that finishing their education at Penn State is more important to them than athletic opportunity elsewhere, that's an informed choice, not a punishment.

If it killed Penn State sports, so be it. A charter member of the Big 10 survived (voluntarily) without scholarship sports, and they've managed to thrive as an academic institution. Their endowment is more than 4x that of Penn State, and they didn't have to turn their backs on child rape to bring in football money and donations to get to that point, either.

I agree with your conditions.

I also think a complete financial investigation shoud be done on the Second Chance Foundation. I would not be surprised at all if there was a slush fund found that was paying Penn St. players. That would also proivide a much stronger motive for the cover up.

forevereagle · July 2, 2012

Here's some food for thought.

There is a reason the IRS doesn't punish murderers who pay their taxes. That same reason applies here.

Just something for discussion.

UNT90 · July 2, 2012

Here's some food for thought.

Just something for discussion.

The problem is no one other than Sandusky will ever spend one day in jail for the events that were allowed to continue by Penn St. (people in power ARE Penn St.). The charges are relatively minor and the most these people will receive is probation.

I would be shocked if there wasn't a catch all in the NCAA bylaws that has an "abuse of power" or some other clause that could be invoked for unforeseen events such as this.

Also, not shocked to see a sports writer take this position.

EDIT: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/football/ncaa/06/20/ncaa-enforcement-officer-resigns.ap/index.html

Leaves Police Department to take position and resigns 8 months later. Coincidence?

Edited July 2, 2012 by UNT90

Harry · July 3, 2012

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2012/07/jerry_sandusky_case_ncaa_inves.html

The Fake Lonnie Finch · July 3, 2012

http://www.pennlive....ncaa_inves.html

Hoping that the NCAA will actually do something meaningful.

adman · July 3, 2012

That was actually unintentional. Just a coincidence that my accidental tastelessness was thematically consistent.

I blame the Hip-Hop.

TIgreen01 · July 3, 2012

http://www.pennlive....ncaa_inves.html

Reading through the comments, there are a few folks throwing out the argument that punishing the school now only punishes innocent players and coaches. I am so sick of that crap line of argument. As Tasty and TFLF have pointed out already, release all players to transfer with immediate eligibility. I don't know what the right penalty is, or if the NCAA is out of it's jurisdiction here....but I do think that the perception backlash against collegiate athletics will be severe if the NCAA does nothing. It's been a bad couple of years with Reggie Bush, Cam Newton, Ohio St, Miami, Oregon, etc forwarding the perception that you *must* cheat to win at the highest levels of collegiate athletics. This is an example of a university administration knowingly putting the school's reputation above the law. At what point does it all come to a head?? I think you may see the NCAA act now because it will be more afraid of the future implications of doing nothing. Then again, maybe they gamble that this all blows over after these men are brought to justice for the cover up?