FSU to BIG 12 hurt UNT?

[PlummMeanGreen]

I wouldn't not be surprised to see a stop the SEC/BIG12/PAC12/B1G alliance. An informal alliance of the Big East, ACC, C-USA, MWC,MAC, and the SBC would be a powerful voting alliance within the NCAA. It is not in best interest for the ACC to weaken the BE. The collapse of the BE would only strengthen the SEC/BIG12/PAC12/B1G cartel. A smarter move would be a scheduling and TV broadcast alliance between the two conferences. BE/ACC are still the dominant force in college basketball and could use this as a leverage with TV networks.

This!

GMG!

[Mark Gommesen]

Has the NCAA had any input whatsoever regarding these crazy conference changes, traditional rivalries now in the toilet, and even cross-country conference games. Could it be the NCAA has no say-so in these conference matters because they are on the payroll of the power conferences and the TV networks that are driving these changes. There, I said. Conspiracy? Maybe. Money has a way of buying people off. Just sayin'.

You're right the NCAA cannot prevent the cartel from pillaging other conferences. NCAA can be useful in curbing the cartel's power in other ways.

The NCAA creates and enforces rules governing personnel, amateurism, recruiting, eligibility, benefits, financial aid, and playing and practice seasons .The Football Bowl Subdivision is part of NCAA. Currently the FBS has 120 members. The Big 12 has 10 votes, Pac 12 has 12 votes,SEC has 14 and the BIG 10 has 12. that a total of a 48 votes. ACC has 14 and the BE has 12 at total of 26. By throwing some crumbs like AQ's to the ACC and BE the Big12/Pac12/B1G/SEC cartel have been able to control a comfortable majority of votes in the FBS. But now that Cartel has raided teams from the ACC and BE, taken a stranglehold TV broadcast dollars, and the AQ eliminated, the world has changed. Now that it is clear the BE and the ACC are no longer allow to sit at the popular kids table, they maybe looking for new friends. BE and ACC it would be wise for BE and ACC to make new friends with mutual interest in seeing that Cartel does contnue to grow in strength.

The reason that the NCAA tournament is includes so many participants and is more democratic is because the Big12/Pac12/B1G/SEC cartel cannot control a majority of votes.

NCAA/FBS does have influence on the structure of BCS championship playoff and bowls, scholarships, roster sizes, recruiting and eligibility rules. NCAA FBS could prevent the creation a new NCAA championship Bowl and require that the NCAA playoffs and championship be conducted using the current BCS bowls. Thus preventing the the Cartel from claiming a BCS bowls as their exclusive property. FBS could reduce the number of FBS football scholarships by 10 for every team for six years. Yes, it would reduce the number of scholarship players at other schools besides the Cartel But, it would have the big advantage, it would free up hundreds of quality athletes to be recruited by schools other than the Biggies. National NCAA Football championship playoff includes 8 conference champions without regard to national ranking, taking a huge recruiting advantage from the Cartel. NCAA can set rules to protect athletes including the number hours or miles an athlete may travel during the season. NCAA can reduce the number of expense-paid recruiting visits to NCAA institutions. Require that recruiting can only occur in a set geographic area for area of limited time frame.

If the ACC breaks rank, the Cartel no longer controls a majority of the votes in the NCAA/FBS! The ACC is not happy about being treated like a second class citizen by the TV networks. If the Big 12 grabs Clemson and Florida State, ACC will not just sit still.

Edited May 21, 2012 by Mark Gommesen

[Eagle1855]

Well I wonder what happened to the Troy invite, if recent football results is all that matters. For that matter, why were Tulsa and USM not invited to the BE?

Winning football has never been as big a factor, as many think. Support and resources are and that is most directly tied to winning. But if it was only winning, NT would have been in CUSA for years, as at the time that decision was made: NT had a good football program and UTEP historically has been one of the worse in the nation.

Boise is the poster boy for what winning can do, but for most it is a combination of factors. I doubt Houston or SMU would be in the BE is they were located far from population centers.

Of all factors, winning football is a big one; but I think this latest round of realignment clearly points to geography and potential as being bigger.

Winning is one thing that we can control. We can't control where we are located. We can't control what conference we were in in the past. We can't do anything to improve our standing in the college football world besides invest in our program (which we've done) and win (which we've not).

I think you've misunderstood what I'm saying, as I don't think we're in disagreement with one another.

[Mark Gommesen]

--- Don't worry about what we can't control.... worry about taking care of business and winning games... We finally are going to be in a conference that will generate more interest and I think will produce more fans and Texas media attention.... which helps recruiting and recognition.

--- I would like to see us keep at least one area non-conf game on the schedule also.... such as Houston, TxTech, Baylor, Oklahoma St, Tx State, TCU, or even NMSU but not a team that we have about zero chance of looking good in [ being a body bag team ]. I don't think being on the wrong end of a lopsided score helps us at all except maybe at the bank.

---Playing a regional games will help us get more media attention and we need that now. SMU might too but I don't just want us to fill their stands and help them after all the disrespect they have shown us (and about everyone else in the region). Let them rot with their near empty stadium ...

If the BIG12/SEC/PAC12/BIG10 cartel is able to monopolize the TV media money and time-slots, set the rules for FBS championship, claim major BCS Bowls and other major Bowls as their exclusive property. It really doesn't matter how many games you win. It's an exclusive club and they're not going to let you in and you will not get media attention period!

I think there is a lot must and can be done in creating alliances for TV contracts and voting blocks in governing bodies. There maybe legal issues regarding restraint of trade or the conferences may want to seek legislation to force more parity. Remember, all of these institutions,including private ones, receive Federal and State funds.

Edited May 21, 2012 by Mark Gommesen

[GrayEagle]

Has the NCAA had any input whatsoever regarding these crazy conference changes, traditional rivalries now in the toilet, and even cross-country conference games. Could it be the NCAA has no say-so in these conference matters because they are on the payroll of the power conferences and the TV networks that are driving these changes. There, I said. Conspiracy? Maybe. Money has a way of buying people off. Just sayin'.

Deep, the NCAA has no voice in the selection of who is and who isn't in a conference. Mark G reiterated what the NCAA can do in way of control. At one time the NCAA negotiated TV contracts. I don't remember how fair the distribution was but it certainly wasn't enough for some of the big boys, notably OU, who threatened to leave the NCAA (or at least their conference) and negotiate their own contract. Notre Dame had already successfully proven that one could make more as an independent than being in a conference. So to appease OU and others that were threatening to leave and form their own association the NCAA body allowed each conference to negotiate their own contracts. That worked well for awhile but when some conferences had maxed out they decided to get more high-profiled teams in order to improve the conference take. That worked well until now. As long as the BCS had the ACC and the Big East in their camp they were in the majority. Now that they are reducing it to the Big 4 conferences they lose that edge until they can bring in 16 teams for each conference. That would give them 64 of the (soon to be) 126 schools.

I have some concern that the power conferences will split off and form their own association. If that is their wish then we are powerless to stop them. But, I'm hoping that cooler heads prevail and that the remainder of the NCAA will band together for their own preservation. There are still some pretty big players and I believe that the rest of the NCAA could survive if the power teams left. Maybe with a similar payout to what each is now getting.

I'll never live to see sanity prevail with the NCAA but I may live long enough to see Congress cast an angry shadow on these shenanigans. Then again, maybe not, since they can't solve how to run our own government.

[JulesFIU07]

i think if FSU goes Big 12, with or without Clemson, then the ACC raids the Big East and the big east then becomes the WAC, a sinking ship that everyone wants to get off of

Exactly. Louisville wants to leave the BE, and BSU and SDSU may never play a down of BE football. If that happens, and the ACC does take a BE school, possibly USF or Rutgers, then the BE definitely collapses.

[All About UNT]

Exactly. Louisville wants to leave the BE, and BSU and SDSU may never play a down of BE football. If that happens, and the ACC does take a BE school, possibly USF or Rutgers, then the BE definitely collapses.

I hope you are right Jules.... then UCF Houston and SMU would rejoin the conference only further strengthening it.

[JulesFIU07]

Absolutely. East Carolina and Southern Miss. are already standing in the Big East line, ready to "move up". And should that happen, CUSA would really be weakened. UTEP and Tulsa would leave CUSA for the MWC faster than a rat on a sinking ship.

But the Big 12 will most likely take Louisville and FSU, which leaves the ACC with one slot. I say they take either USF (has defeated both FSU and Miami) or Rutgers. The rest of the BE divides up between C-USA and the MAC.

[GL2Greatness]

But the Big 12 will most likely take Louisville and FSU, which leaves the ACC with one slot. I say they take either USF (has defeated both FSU and Miami) or Rutgers. The rest of the BE divides up between C-USA and the MAC.

Louisville will not get a sniff from the Big 12....there is not a single fan base that desires Louisville and the Big 12 is not looking to add to the bottom they are looking to add to the top

the Big 12 has their 10 teams locked up for the next 6 years as it is and they have first and second tier TV deals in place to earn at least 16 million over those years and they have another 1.75 million per team deal with FSN that ends after this season so the Big 12 is making 17.75 per team on their TV deals and that is not including the third tier deals that KU, KSU, OkState, and Texas have in place and that Texas Tech and OU are working on

so as it is not the Big 12 makes more than the ACC even with the new ACC deal and they make the same as the PAC because the PAC deal is back loaded just like the ACC deal is and the Big 12 (if they do not work the deal everyone is talking about now) will have a new first tier deal to work in 2015

so the Big 12 does not need to add any team to be competitive with money with any other conference for the next 5 years at least

the Big 12 got 9 million per team starting this year for their second tier deal so in a few years in 2015 even if their new first tier deal is exactly the same they will be at 18 million per team with those two combined and no third tier deals included and I doubt that in 2015 the first tier rights will only sell for what the second tier rights sell for today

so the Big 12 does not need to add warm bodies like Louisville and if the Big 12 can lure FSU then they can surely lure at least one more ACC team between Clemson, Miami, GaTech, VaTech or even some of the others......any of those 4 teams would be a much better choice for every reason over Louisville so the "Ville will just have to sit on the sidelines and watch or hope the ACC comes calling in the future unless the Big 12 decides they want 6 teams then there is a very very slim chance that they might get the call if the Big 12 can't attract FSU, Clemson. GaTech, Miami, and VaTech plus one more ACC team

Maryland, Pitt, and UVA would all be preferable to the Big 12 over The 'Ville if they needed a last team to add 6 for a number of reasons

[PlummMeanGreen]

For the life of me, something deep down still tells me DeLoss Dodds and UT are not going to be Big 12 keepers. You think the Horns are going to let TAMU get all the ink the Ags will most likely get in the SEC? Not on your life will the Longhorn Nation allow that to happen.

GMG!

Edited May 22, 2012 by PlummMeanGreen

[GL2Greatness]

For the life of me, something deep down still tells me DeLoss Dodds and UT are not going to be Big 12 keepers. You think the Horns are going to let TAMU get all the ink the Ags will most likely get in the SEC? Not on your life will the Longhorn Nation allow that to happen.

GMG!

what "ink" are they going to get in the SEC that they did not get in the Big 12?

they had games with Baylor (just a few hundred miles away), Texas (not much further at all), Tech and OkState and OU every other year at home VS now they have no in state teams that they play and it is TAMU they were getting all the "ink" they could already and they still could not keep up and sucked.....they had the Jerry World game with Arkansas every year and lost it every year

TAMU was the biggest benefactor of the uneven revenue sharing the last couple of years they were in the Big 12 and they still managed to find a way to need to borrow 18 million from the academic side and once they start having their asses handed to them even worse in the SEC they might get more "ink" but it will be the kind of "ink" that says you suck and you made a huge stupid mistake moving to the SEC

Texas did not get to be the top revenue producing program in the USA for several years running by looking around at what TAMU was doing that is for damn sure and they certainly are not scared of TAMU in the SEC

there are 120+ D1-A programs in the country and the ones that always suck and under perform are the ones that sit around concentrating on what a single other program (like SMU or TAMU) are doing VS concerning themselves with what works best for their program.....TCU and Boise have proven this out time and again and the multitude of programs that sit around and under perform or suck while obsessing about another single program proves it as well

[DeepGreen]

Don't care for GL2Greatness' posts, but he's dead on with his assessment of Louisville not getting a sniff from the B12. Not long ago the scuttlebutt was Louisville and Cincinnati moving to the B12. It took me a while to quit laughing. Those are not premier programs. Sure they've had some success in CUSA and the Big East, but they are not top shelf programs that the B12 would be interested in.

[Eagle1855]

Don't care for GL2Greatness' posts, but he's dead on with his assessment of Louisville not getting a sniff from the B12. Not long ago the scuttlebutt was Louisville and Cincinnati moving to the B12. It took me a while to quit laughing. Those are not premier programs. Sure they've had some success in CUSA and the Big East, but they are not top shelf programs that the B12 would be interested in.

Exactly. They want higher-profile teams and I imagine they wouldn't mind laying down some roots in the SEC's recruiting territory in the process, which is why they'll go after Clemson and FSU, if anyone. Both have strong football, baseball, and basketball. It's a no-brainer, when compared to all other options. Whether or not those two programs want to leave is another story entirely. But there's a lot of upside. By that I mean cash-money. That stuff that started all of this.

If they do grab those two, maybe it's time for the Big East and ACC to consolidate. In other words, ACC raids the Big East, killing the Big East, and the remaining spares (UH, SMU, SDSU, Boise, et al) go back to their respective conference homes.

Then everyone has 12+ teams and the nonsense can stop. Maybe.

[GL2Greatness]

If they do grab those two, maybe it's time for the Big East and ACC to consolidate. In other words, ACC raids the Big East, killing the Big East, and the remaining spares (UH, SMU, SDSU, Boise, et al) go back to their respective conference homes.

Then everyone has 12+ teams and the nonsense can stop. Maybe.

um...

the SEC would still have 14......the ACC would have 14 if they lost two and then added two from the BE and the CUSA would have 18 if UH, SMU, UCF, and Memphis returned and those teams and several others in CUSA are not going to put up with all of that

and if the ACC grabbed Louisville and Cincy or Rutgers and UCONN or even all 4 to go to 16......that still means that Temple is left there (to the MAC most likely) and then USF is still there and they are doubtful for the ACC unless the SEC goes to 16 by grabbing 2 ACC teams also which means the ACC would need one more team and that would still have CUSA most likely at 17 teams and that will not work for the returning members and for several of the remaining long term members.....which means the madness keeps going

[Green Mean]

Correct me if I'm wrong but if there is one thing that Louisville would have going for them to attract attention from the B12, SEC, or ACC, is the fact that they're a pretty good sized public school in a good sized town with a lot of support? Their facilities are excellent and I thought I read something a while back that they're upping their athletics budget a lot to a point where they could be a very big dog when it comes to conference realignment. Again I don't think they're a shoe in but I don't see how they wouldn't get some serious looks and appeal from the bigger conferences.

[JulesFIU07]

It sounds as if the following being speculated.

1. FSU and Clemson to Big 12 (Ga. Tech reaching out)

2. UNC and Va. Tech to SEC

3. Maryland, UVA and Duke to the Big 10

4. Louisville, Rutgers, UConn and Cinci to backfill ACC