SMU Professor Says Move To Big East Will Hurt SMU...

[PlummMeanGreen]

SMU professor Sanford Thatcher wrote this strongly worded column today arguing that the overemphasis on athletics and the move to the Big East will 1. Reduce the caliber of applicants to SMU 2. Divert giving from academic to athletic endeavors 3. Result in the dissolution of non-revenue sports in the name of protecting the few profitable sports on campus. The kicker? His argument is based on what he (and the book Confessions Of A Spoilsport) says happened to Rutgers when it made the move to the Big East in 1995.

http://www.bigeastcoastbias.com/

(then scroll down toward the bottom)

GMG!

Edited May 9, 2012 by PlummMeanGreen

[Green Mean]

I disagree with the writer. The Big East will help SMU...will they be athletically successful? Well that remains to be seen but to think that they did not better themselves by going to the Big East is absolutely delusional.

[PlummMeanGreen]

I disagree with the writer. The Big East will help SMU...will they be athletically successful? Well that remains to be seen but to think that they did not better themselves by going to the Big East is absolutely delusional.

Of course, we have no dog in this fight, but here is more on this article with comments from SMU'ers with the link below. A no-brainer statement here, but I think the Big East only helps SMU if they get significantly more TV revenues; because without tho$e it would have been a mistake for both SMU and UH.

And with all varsity sports of SMU and UH in the Big East, just how much TV revenue per school do they need to make it worthwhile. too?

http://www.dallasnew...tion=reregister

GMG!

Edited May 9, 2012 by PlummMeanGreen

[UNTexas]

Who cares about SMU? I don't. GMG!!!

[hickoryhouse]

What is the name if this board? goSMU.com?

Unless it has at least something to do with us I don't care. Let then fight their own battles and if we want to rabbit trail about them we can do it on the I like pie forum....

Edited May 9, 2012 by hickoryhouse

[TheColonyEagle]

Personally, I don't think SMU cares about Tv money. They don't need money. I think the only reason SMU went to the big east is to get in an AQ league period.

They want to be in the BCS picture and get back on the national stage like they think they were in the SWC. Three winning seasons in their last 25 and they're all the sudden remembering what it was like to be #2 in the nation one time in the 80s. They "belong" in the national spot light.

That's why if the AQ thing goes away they are screwed. Then they'll either have to do the totally illogical thing and swallow it in the big east for no reason, come crawling back to CUSA (that would be fun) , or do the equally illogical thing and go to the MWC (if they'll have them)

I'm sure June Jones will stay loyal to them no matter what direction they go. So they have that going for them.

[NT91]

I would not want NT in the BiG East. Would you?

Edited May 10, 2012 by NT91

[Green Mean]

I would not want NT in the BiG East. Would you?

Of course. Why wouldn't we want to be in the Big East? BCS conference, arguably one of the top top basketball conferences, lots of TV money, much more national profile and outreach...it would really be a no brainer.

[NT91]

Who wants to see NT play Uconn or UofNJ.

[Green Mean]

Who wants to see NT play Uconn or UofNJ.

I know I would love to have them regularly come to Denton and be conference mates with them.

[shaft]

Moves like this don't come out a head based on dollars. Moves like this are about buying an image.

Just like Arlington & Cowboys stadium.

[UNTexas]

Who wants to see NT play Uconn or UofNJ.

I am with you. I am happy where we are these days. Maybe in the future. This AQ bs is going away from the rumblings but who knows. We are in a great place. A week ago we were crossing fingers to get into conference USA and now people are posting Big East hypothetical situations. If folks are dreaming how bout the Big 12? Screw the Big East.

[Proud North Texan]

Huge move might happen in the future for North Texas...... big 12 it's waaaaay better than the Big East!!

[GTWT]

Who wants to see NT play Uconn or UofNJ.

Yeah. But I would like to see UNT play Houston & SMU. Don't get me wrong. I love that we're playing Rice & UTEP but SMU would be a great conference rival for us (and for them though they're too myopic to see it) & I would love to play them every year.

[PlummMeanGreen]

Personally, I don't think SMU cares about Tv money. They don't need money. I think the only reason SMU went to the big east is to get in an AQ league period.

They want to be in the BCS picture and get back on the national stage like they think they were in the SWC. Three winning seasons in their last 25 and they're all the sudden remembering what it was like to be #2 in the nation one time in the 80s. They "belong" in the national spot light.

That's why if the AQ thing goes away they are screwed. Then they'll either have to do the totally illogical thing and swallow it in the big east for no reason, come crawling back to CUSA (that would be fun) , or do the equally illogical thing and go to the MWC (if they'll have them)

I'm sure June Jones will stay loyal to them no matter what direction they go. So they have that going for them.

The AQ thing does go away I think this next year or the next.

SMU can talk about the extra revenues but like you said they didn't move to the Big East for that at all; its just that those extra revenues will take a load off a handful of their alums who have been SMU's extra revenues.

Now it's a totally different situation with UH because "IF" there are significantly extra revenues, the Coogs will be able to use them much moreso than SMU, although the non AQ coming up soon sorta' took the new car smell off the Big East rather quickly (and unexpectedly) for University of Houston.

GMG!

[HerdZone]

If the AQ goes away or rather when the AQ goes away 3 of the 4 that moved from CUSA screwed themselves because they moved because of football. Memphis is the only exception. Memphis will be screwed if the BE splits which has been roumored to happen 5 years before the last conference shift in 2005. Boise is now whinning to the BE to help them find a place for their olympic sports. They should have never jumped, their president and AD knew the AQ was going away and the WAC was going to be ripped apart. Its not only SMU.

[shaft]

I think the Big East split is a myth perpetuated by message board operators to drive traffic to the site in the off season. We've been hearing about the sp,it for years and all the Big East has done is expand and become more football focused.

[NT91]

Yeah. But I would like to see UNT play Houston & SMU. Don't get me wrong. I love that we're playing Rice & UTEP but SMU would be a great conference rival for us (and for them though they're too myopic to see it) & I would love to play them every year.

NT will play SMU for about 5 years home and away soon.

[HerdZone]

I think the Big East split is a myth perpetuated by message board operators to drive traffic to the site in the off season. We've been hearing about the sp,it for years and all the Big East has done is expand and become more football focused.

The BE basketball schools never had a big reason to except for just being a basketball conference again like it was before 1995. The basketball schools are not happy about the adds of SMU, Houston, Boise and San Diego State (even though the last 2 are FO). Georgetown, Providence, St Johns and etc. do not want to go to SMU or Houston and play in front of 800 people. For that matter neither does ND, Louisville, Cincy or UConn. The BE split will happen sooner rather than later now.

[PlummMeanGreen]

I think the Big East split is a myth perpetuated by message board operators to drive traffic to the site in the off season. We've been hearing about the sp,it for years and all the Big East has done is expand and become more football focused.

Well here's yet another myth I suppose: http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/eye-on-college-football/19009755/report-louisville-wants-out-of-the-big-east

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

My Opinions:

1. SMU academics will be unchanged by the the conference change,good or bad

... unless it is financially ... by increased travel costs etc. taking money away.

2. SMU messed up by joining Big East.... no close opponents, will not increase football attendance, not going to get the attention they think it will, will get killed in basketball, They will regret doing it.

3. May not a massive split in BE but look at it now.... many have left or leaving and it will keep changing... not very stable. Might split football teams off completely or they just wonder away as many have done. SMU could become the new NMSU or Idaho .... no real home in football and nowhere to go.

4. I think the prof is right about one thing for sure ..... they will get less attention in Texas media and Texas in general will care even less about them.... on the flip side ours will go up now. Houston will fare much better than SMU.

5. Playing them is more beneficial for them than us now... they need to fill the stands at a few games since their conference attendance will likely be pitiful.

6. The Big East sure looks a version of CUSA now... a lot of former members. How does that help them any...?? I was never impressed that much by BE football in general anyway.

..

Edited May 11, 2012 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[VideoEagle]

Every university has some anti athletics professors. And everyone has some pro athletics professors. Is enough SMU faculty going to be up in arms to make a difference? No.

I'm sure there are some NT professors on both sides of NT joining CUSA and they opponents are going to make a difference here either.

I don't know if the Big East is going to split up or not as I don't know enough Big East alumni to be able to form an opinion. I suspect "a Big East split" is like an economist predicting a recession - keep doing it over and over and eventually you will be right.

[PlummMeanGreen]

My Opinions:

1. SMU academics will be unchanged by the the conference change,good or bad

... unless it is financially ... by increased travel costs etc. taking money away.

2. SMU messed up by joining Big East.... no close opponents, will not increase football attendance, not going to get the attention they think it will, will get killed in basketball, They will regret doing it.

3. May not a massive split in BE but look at it now.... many have left or leaving and it will keep changing... not very stable. Might split football teams off completely or they just wonder away as many have done. SMU could become the new NMSU or Idaho .... no real home in football and nowhere to go.

4. I think the prof is right about one thing for sure ..... they will get less attention in Texas media and Texas in general will care even less about them.... on the flip side ours will go up now. Houston will fare much better than SMU.

5. Playing them is more beneficial for them than us now... they need to fill the stands at a few games since their conference attendance will likely be pitiful.

6. The Big East sure looks a version of CUSA now... a lot of former members. How does that help them any...?? I was never impressed that much by BE football in general anyway.

..

Sadly with most your points concerning SMU...you have hit the proverbial nail on the proverbial head, SCREAMING EAGLE-66.

Wild Prediction: If the Big East falters completely, SMU and UH will go MWC or will lead the way to re-form CUSA/MWC 3.0 forgetting about losing credits and guess which school will not be invited? I mean don't we have history to go on with that, but IMHO even that attitiude will back-fire on them in due time. I mean you can't go on being a jerk forever without some semblance of payola for being such. I don't care how much money you have, either. Just sayin'...

GMG!

Edited May 11, 2012 by PlummMeanGreen

[untjim1995]

I do believe that the Big East splitting up to basketball-only schools will happen sooner rather than later. Those that play football in the NE (Uconn and Rutgers) will be going to either the Big Ten or the ACC. Louisville, USF, and Cincinnati will have a home somewhere in the ACC or Big 12. Boise State and SDSU will go back to the MWC.

The others that remain will probably be forced to start a new conference. To me, that will be terrible for CUSA/UNT. Those old CUSA teams (Tulane, Tulsa, USM, ECU, Marshall, and UAB) would love to get into a league with SMU, UH, Memphis, UCF, Temple, and Navy. Basically, we would have to replace those schools with SBC schools or FCS schools to get back up again. The only saving grace would be continuing to have Texas and Louisiana schools in our conference. UTEP, UTSA, Rice, La Tech, and maybe ULL and Texas State would still be conference mates in the same division, hopefully. I don't think Rice will get any consideration to move up because of UH, so that would help the other Texas/LA schools to keep a presence in Houston. But, make no mistake about it, I don't want this split to occur on basketball/football programs for the Big East. It would hurt CUSA, as it currently stands, very badly. I want that conglomeration to remain a league, but see some of the members leave becasue the AQ goes away. Boise is the best team over there, but they should be out west and that will happen, just like it will for SDSU.

Rutgers and UConn will get gobbled up sooner rather than later, and Louisville wants out badly now. But, hopefully, with the Big12 and the ACC signing new deals, those schools will have to stay in the Big East for a few more years. Then, maybe things work out to where we finally start winning and getting strong attendance numbers in both money sports, which leads to us finally leap-frogging SMU in terms of value to a conference. SMUs history and cash get a lot of media coverage to this day--even ESPN used the Death Penalty thing to give SMU a free commercial on how the program has "risen" from the ashes in that 30 for 30 episode. But their attendance for games against opponents that Texans don't care much about has really been awful for as long as ours has. Without a connection to local fans and with small alumni and student bodies, SMUs ceiling is almost being reached right now. TCU has them blocked for anything bigger than their current conference setup. They cannot compete with the "potential" that we have because of our alumni base, student body, and Denton's size--granted UNT has done relatively nothing to gain on that potential, but it exists. If we were to win a conference championship or two in the next 5 seasons, and it led to a ranking and attendance that averaged around 25k, we would absolutely leap-frog them. June Jones is trying to get out of there right now--he knows that the long-term viability at SMU is not something that is sustainable. Even having winning seasons there recently have produced very little in attendance. Now that we won't have to play SBC teams every year, after this season, lets see how attendance starts to look. Playing a game against Southern Mississippi or East Carolina is a lot different from playing Western Kentucky and Middle Tennessee. If we can do what we want to do in CUSA, the rest of this stuff will take care of itself, both media-wise and in conference affiliation.

Edited May 11, 2012 by untjim1995

[shaft]

I'm sure there are some NT professors on both sides of NT joining CUSA and they opponents are going to make a difference here either.

Then that professor should be fired. CUSA is awesome for UNT. The new CUSA West will lower athletic travel costs and increase sports revenue.