The Good and Bad of CUSA

[UNTFan23]

Then you ought to contact the officials at UT, A$M, OU, Ohio State.....etc etc etc and let them know that they have been wasting their time and money on meaningless ceremony for their football games. I'm sure they will greatly appreciate your insights.

If I had any interest in those schools I would be watching them for their football and not their bands. I really could care less about dotting an 'I' or marching military style.

So I guess you would prefer something along the lines of a Grambling State vs. Prairie View type game -- awesome Bands with football no one could really cares about?

I'd say something about tilting at windmills but I think the comment would be lost due to the 3 wind turbines right outside the stadium.

Edited May 2, 2012 by UNTFan23

[NTXCoog]

While I enjoy all of the CUSA teams and enjoy watching UH playing them, few CUSA teams got Houston fans to show up just for the opponent. The biggest draw for UH fans is USM because they're consistently solid if not very good and UH has had some great games against them. UTEP usually brings a good travelling crowd too.

There's a difference between knowing someone exists and them inspiring you to get off the couch and go to a game. Everyone in this area knows who SFA is, but that doesn't mean they're going to be a draw. Being local isn't a guarantee either. Everyone in Houston knows who Texas Southern is, but when UH played them when UH was having attendance problems, it was a horribly underattended game.

Maybe it's different for UH and UNT. UH went from SWC opponents that still get all the media attention in Texas to CUSA opponents that get very little coverage in TX. UNT is moving up in conference with opponents that have slightly better name recognition. But it's still not teams that get TX media coverage.

The conference improvement will give UNT a bump, but it won't cure all of UNT's ills. Hopefully it will give a push in the right direction, and the fans will take it the rest of the way.

And regarding bands and halftime shows, Grambling was a great draw at UH, primarily because of the band. UH has had some other HBCU teams with outstanding bands come in that have been decent draws when attendance was low.

[SilverEagle]

If I had any interest in those schools I would be watching them for their football and not their bands. I really could care less about dotting an 'I' or marching military style.

So I guess you would prefer something along the lines of a Grambling State vs. Prairie View type game -- awesome Bands with football no one could really cares about?

I'd say something about tilting at windmills but I think the comment would be lost due to the 3 wind turbines right outside the stadium.

So you can only see in terms of either/or? All of those storied programs got there by having the WHOLE package. They didn't start out with great game-day experiences/pageantry But the pageantry quickly followed so that EVERYONE would have something.

[greenminer]

THe pageantry goes hand-in-hand with the program no doubt. It wouldn't be college football without it.

But if you are losing losing losing, then how the band marches is not the reason fans disappear. If you are winning winning winning, (oh and winning), the pageantry must be there. Enhance the experience.

If we are selling out game after game and suddenly 3000 people are crying for a change and threatening to drop MGC membership/season tickets, I'm sure it can happen. Until then, it's two people on a message board.

[Green Crazy]

---Your wife is no sports fan or reads the news much..... Favre is from So. Miss, TULANE??..holy moly, ever read about the NO hurricane, it went under water and was in news regularly , Marshall, must not be a fan of Matt McC , he stared in a movie about Marshall and the famous plane crash.. also Randy Moss was from there, and I could go on... , maybe not UNCC but at one time very good in BB.,

Ask her if whe has ever heard of Stanford, Rutgers, Gonzaga, Kent State, Syracuse, or Vanderbilt .... or if so ... name roughly where they are or something about them. [ my TxTech grad wife would know maybe all of them including the above ones ] A lot of those CUSA teams are well known by most people especially college grads. .

it shocked me too, but like i said she's hardly a sports person...like most of our students are hardly sports fans, so i would say 1/3 of the woman on campus would know all of or even most of those schools. that being said, you could probably poll the campus and only find 1/4 of the students know who paul mccartney and john lennon are.

[SilverEagle]

THe pageantry goes hand-in-hand with the program no doubt. It wouldn't be college football without it.

But if you are losing losing losing, then how the band marches is not the reason fans disappear. If you are winning winning winning, (oh and winning), the pageantry must be there. Enhance the experience.

If we are selling out game after game and suddenly 3000 people are crying for a change and threatening to drop MGC membership/season tickets, I'm sure it can happen. Until then, it's two people on a message board.

OK, lets use this example. If Vegas was only interested in attracting the hard corp gamblers, then all they needed to do was set up places to go sit down, maybe have a few drinks, and JUST GAMBLE. There are always going to be hard corp gamblers who would be perfectly happy to do just that.

However, Vegas knew a long time ago that the not-so-hard-corp gamblers wanted lots of glitz and glamour. They still make the vast majority of their money off gambling, but it's the glitz and glamour AND A GOOD SHOW that keeps the non-hard corp gamblers, and their families, coming back.

[greenminer]

But the pageantry quickly followed so that EVERYONE would have something.

How quickly?

If you look at the Longhorn band, it took 60 years for someone to decide they were gonna do "Script Texas." I guess pageantry was so important to them, they could only wait through 11 Southwest titles before someone put their foot down.

If you look at Ohio State, they "only" won 6 conference titles in the 30 years it took them to decide "Script Ohio" would be cool to do.

I love the pageantry! I love the Green Brigade, but I can't find any empirical evidence that suggests a traditional marching style is going to hold onto more than a handful of fans through rain or shine.

[greenminer]

OK, lets use this example. If Vegas was only interested in attracting the hard corp gamblers, then all they needed to do was set up places to go sit down, maybe have a few drinks, and JUST GAMBLE. There are always going to be hard corp gamblers who would be perfectly happy to do just that.

However, Vegas knew a long time ago that the not-so-hard-corp gamblers wanted lots of glitz and glamour. They still make the vast majority of their money off gambling, but it's the glitz and glamour AND A GOOD SHOW that keeps the non-hard corp gamblers, and their families, coming back.

We're not debating the validity of the pageantry. We both agree the glitz/glamor and good show is a part of the atmosphere.

If I were to take your analogy into this debate, it would be about a couple guys getting on a message board saying they don't like the drinks the casino served. They new crowd doesn't know what their missing until they can buy the whiskey drinks I like.

The pageantry is already there. There are a lot of people that like the Green Brigade. A lot who know they are good.

Come of think of it, your argument sounds very either/or in itself.

[Green Crazy]

OK, lets use this example. If Vegas was only interested in attracting the hard corp gamblers, then all they needed to do was set up places to go sit down, maybe have a few drinks, and JUST GAMBLE. There are always going to be hard corp gamblers who would be perfectly happy to do just that.

However, Vegas knew a long time ago that the not-so-hard-corp gamblers wanted lots of glitz and glamour. They still make the vast majority of their money off gambling, but it's the glitz and glamour AND A GOOD SHOW that keeps the non-hard corp gamblers, and their families, coming back.

i think it plays a part, but a small part. after all, you see the pageantry for maybe 20 minutes of the 3 hours your there and that's if you get there early and don't go anywhere at half time.my wife is a huge fan of the half time show (dancers and band) and thinks they are very important to the game. my response is always, if they add so much to the game then why doesn't every team have them in the nfl? how much does it add to the brown's and redskin's games?that being said, even though it's a small part in my opinion, i wouldn't mind there being more of it. that's something that is actually in the schools control. however, i would prefer them start by playing better songs when they are in the stands before adjusting their entrance/half time show.

[KRAM1]

Joining CUSA will have so many positive results for us as NT fans. First, we'll get local teams in Apogee and the Super Pit consistently. Our alums will finally get to play games against teams that co-workers and friends know and/or graduated from those schools. The "water cooler rivalries" will exist for us...finally. We'll have makeable (and desireable) road trips. And, my favorite part, we'll have an excuse to go to New Orleans to watch a football game at least once every two years (and in some cases twice in a year...once to play Tulane and once as the CUSA representative in the NO Bowl).

But, alas, there will be one horrible result of joining CUSA. One drawback that a great deal of our fanbase will be unable to escape and will cause them heartache year in and year out........

The last "legitimate" excuse for not supporting their alma mater will be gone. For years and years some of our "fans" clung to the "I'd come to games but we play in a crappy stadium" excuse. So we built Apogee. Then they changed their incessant whining to "Apogee is nice, but we don't play anyone I care about." Sorry folks, now we're playing Tulsa, UTEP, Rice, La Tech, Tulane, So Miss, etc. Unless some of you want to stand your ground on the "I love NT, but only when UT, the Rangers, or Cowboys aren't playing" or "The weather isn't ideal for an outdoor wedding so therefore it's bad for football" excuses, I hate to tell you that you'll need to be calling the ticket office soon.

I just hope some of you can survive this drastic shock to your realities.

I'd give you multiple +1's if I could, Sir! HOF worthy post right here!

[SilverEagle]

We're not debating the validity of the pageantry. We both agree the glitz/glamor and good show is a part of the atmosphere.

If I were to take your analogy into this debate, it would be about a couple guys getting on a message board saying they don't like the drinks the casino served. They new crowd doesn't know what their missing until they can buy the whiskey drinks I like.

The pageantry is already there.

This is primarily where we (and others) disagree. This has been my argument all along. Shuffling out on the field to put on a moving concert is not pageantry.

There are a lot of people that like the Green Brigade. A lot who know they are good.

And I am one of them. I have watched the North Texas marching band both pre and post Windslow. Musically they are without peer (although the post Windslow bands could not out play the pre Winslow bands) and they (musically) kick the asses of all the bands they have faced. Pageantry-wise......they really suck.

Come of think of it, your argument sounds very either/or in itself.

It is not either/or.....it's take the great musical organization that is there and make the show better.

[KRAM1]

i was showing my wife the new c-usa map last night and she had never heard of southern miss., marshall, e. carolina, uab, odu, unc-charlotte or tulane. granted, she's not even an average sports fan, but she watches college football (mostly tech games). so there will probably be quite a few students that fall in the same boat. i'm extremely excited about this move and think it will increase attendance, but not more than one or two thousand. the school and us alum need to continue to market the sports teams and recruit new fans.go mean green!

Your wife definitely needs to get out more! Amazing lack of knowledge in this area...even my bride who is not an avid sports fan (except for soccer) knows of these schools. You got some teaching to do here, sir! Ha!

[greenminer]

Maybe I'm by myself, but when you're calling the current efforts of the Green Brigade - or anything that is not "your way" - a lack of pageantry, it sounds like either/or to me.

I would be okay with trying anything (well, almost). I've heard old recordings of the Green Brigade and they sound wonderful.

But the condescending tone and use of labels like "Grand Mosey", shuffling, telling us that the system is all wrong...none of that wins people over.

If this were more in line with "Let's try this and see what people think", maybe more people wouldn't be so annoyed.

Edited May 2, 2012 by greenminer

[forevereagle]

It is not either/or.....it's take the great musical organization that is there and make the show better more to my personal liking.

Fixed for accuracy.

Edited May 2, 2012 by forevereagle

[SilverEagle]

Maybe I'm by myself, but when you're calling the current efforts of the Green Brigade - or anything that is not "your way" - a lack of pageantry, it sounds like either/or to me.

I would be okay with trying anything (well, almost). I've heard old recordings of the Green Brigade and they sound wonderful.

But the condescending tone and use of labels like "Grand Mosey", shuffling, telling us that the system is all wrong...none of that wins people over.

If this were more in line with "Let's try this and see what people think", maybe more people wouldn't be so annoyed.

I've been around musicians for long stretches of time (including the ones in the prima donna class/level) and even making suggestions like "hey, how about we try this" gets you a condescending smile and a pat on the head, with a "sure we'll think about that one" and the accompanying rolling of eyes as they turn around to make eye contact with their fellow musicians. I've learned that to get the attention of people who think they always know better than the unwashed masses, you have to be less......subtle in your approach. Because if I want to see something really change, I'd rather have a conversation with someone that is mad at me, than one who is trying to talk down to me......like musicians/divas and prima donnas do.

WERE GETTING OUT-COACHED got me a personal call from the Head Coach. And when he called, he might have thought he was going to "handle" me and pat me on the head so that I would go away feeling that I had been listened to. Instead he had to have a "back and forth" ........and he hadn't planned on that. It didn't significantly change his style, but I know that he did hear what the concerns were.

[TIgreen01]

Fixed for accuracy.

Our band gets better every year....you can see the progress---esp. in the stands on 3rd downs now. But the pre-game show currently has a 10 minute dead space after the band finishes the National Anthem until the team runs out onto the field. During that time, the band stands still and cycles through the fight song and 'Fly Like an Eagle'. It just looks like they could tighten up the timing of it all---finish the anthem, then march into position near the South endzone and have the team immediately run out. Do that, and you've fixed the pre-game pageantry, IMPO. The rest of it is up to personal taste....but that 10 minute dead space really makes us look unorganized and should be easy to tighten up.

my $.02.

Edited May 2, 2012 by TIgreen01

[EdwardRRooney]

Bahaha, arguing over the band and half time show....classic.

[SilverEagle]

Bahaha, arguing over the band and half time show....classic.

Now now. Aren't you just the sweetest thing to offer your opinion.........

[EdwardRRooney]

Now now. Aren't you just the sweetest thing to offer your opinion.........

You don't find it the least bit comical?

[untjim1995]

Maybe it's different for UH and UNT. UH went from SWC opponents that still get all the media attention in Texas to CUSA opponents that get very little coverage in TX. UNT is moving up in conference with opponents that have slightly better name recognition. But it's still not teams that get TX media coverage.

The conference improvement will give UNT a bump, but it won't cure all of UNT's ills. Hopefully it will give a push in the right direction, and the fans will take it the rest of the way.

I think this is dead-on about all of the SWC leftovers who didn't get into the Big XII. If you were a big UH fan, you saw games in the 70s, 80s, and early 90s against Texas, A&M, Arkansas, Tech, and Baylor every year. That was during a time when Texas, Arkansas, and A&M were top 10 teams often, and Tech and Baylor had programs that had signifianct name value in the state, especially Teaff's Baylor teams. UH went to the Cotton Bowl in 70s and 80s, had a Heisman winner in the late 80s, and had those crazy Run and Shoot teams in the early 90s with Klingler. So when the SWC died, those fans got to see UH play games against Tulane, Southern Miss, Louisville, Cincinnati, Memphis, UAB, and East Carolina in CUSA. I can totally understand those fans and Houston media feeling like the rug got pulled out from underneath them, and then seeing the Big 12 take over all of the media and fans attention was probably very tough to swallow.

Now, flip flop that entire scenario. Imagine playing powerhouse names for conference games like McNeese State, NIcholls State, NE Louisiana (now Louisiana-Monroe), NW (La) State, Sam Houston State, Stephen F. Austin, SW Texas State (now Texas State), Boise State (as a new I-A team), Nevada, New Mexico State, Utah State, Idaho, Louisiana-Lafayette, Arkansas State, Troy, Middle Tennessee, Western Kentucky, South Alabama, Florida International, and Florida Atlantic for 30 years. Then, somehow, the college athletic gods give you the opportunity to play Tulane, UTEP, Rice, Tulsa, La Tech, Southern Miss, East Carolina, Marshall, and UAB in football and basketball. That looks like pure gold compared to the crap we have given to fans for the last three decades as a conference schedule. It may not help sell out Apogee or the Super Pit, but it is a MUCH easier sell to casual fans to come watch a game against these CUSA teams than anything associated with the Belt. East Carolina will get a few thousand more fans than Florida Atlantic did. Marshall will draw more fans than Western Kentucky. Tulsa games always outdrew anything Arkansas State games brought for attendance. Why? Because people have heard of them. We got our asses handed to us by Tulsa, 54-2, in front of a "big" Fouts crowd, but it was because we were playing a home game against someone people knew. A bad Rice team got a "huge crowd at Fouts, even though both teams were terrible that year. That should only get better as we play those guys in conference games, both on the road and at home.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

it shocked me too, but like i said she's hardly a sports person...like most of our students are hardly sports fans, so i would say 1/3 of the woman on campus would know all of or even most of those schools. that being said, you could probably poll the campus and only find 1/4 of the students know who paul mccartney and john lennon are.

..

Who do they play for.? ...hahaha I would hope it would be a whole lot better.... These students are becoming the most educated people in America ... but I am amazed at time what some don't know... I teach college clases... I almost fell over when a few years ago in a summer class I had a girl not know the Cowboys was a football team (just graduated from HS) I had used the name in a stated problem and she had no idea [ American not foreign student ] . A student from NT sat beside her and really gave it to her.. funny... She wasn't all that good at math either. D... maybe. Bet she had a short college career.

Edited May 2, 2012 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[forevereagle]

Bahaha, arguing over the band and half time show....classic.

[tylermeangreen]

So you can only see in terms of either/or? All of those storied programs got there by having the WHOLE package. They didn't start out with great game-day experiences/pageantry But the pageantry quickly followed so that EVERYONE would have something.

Silver, you can teach and preach but if it is beyond their level of comprehension then you are just tootin' in the breeze.

But you are right in what you are sayin' and some of the decision-makers do understand - in time it will come.

GMG

[GoMeanGreen1999]

I would say our game day culture has been 100% changed by the new stadium and all that goes around it. Add in the new walk bridge and you will have a hard time beating what they have out at Apogee minus 50,000 more people that you get at the bigger programs. In fact, minus the size, I would say its pretty hard to find a stadium that is much better. I have to hand it to our AD staff and such, because I think the game day experience here is a 180 compared to what it was before they came. Does more culture have to change - yes, but changing culture takes years, if not decades.

As for the band, there are people that come to the games strickly to watch them. And at this point, until we sell out our games, we need everyone that is willing to pay and come to the games. I for one love the current band and what they do, but I don't go to watch them either. Why not showcase your music program during the game?