Zimmerman Faces 2nd Degree Murder

[FirefightnRick]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/george-zimmerman-to-be-charged-in-trayvon-martin-shooting-law-enforcement-official-says/2012/04/11/gIQAHJ5oAT_print.html

Florida special prosecutor Angela Corey announced the charge at an early-evening news conference in Jacksonville. She said Zimmerman had turned himself in and was being held in the state.

“It is the search for justice for Trayvon that has brought us to this moment,” Corey said

I got a feeling this isn't going to go well?

Rick

[THOR]

if he shot him for any reason other than self defense, he should fry...

[FirefightnRick]

Eric Holder Praises Left-Wing Activist Al Sharpton, Says Facts, Law Will Guide Trayvon Martin Investigation

At the opening of NANs 14th annual convention in Washington, D.C., the attorney general first thanked MSNBCs Rev. Sharpton for your partnership, your friendship, and your tireless efforts to speak out for the voiceless, to stand up for the powerless, and to shine a light on the problems we must solve, and the promises we must fulfill.

Rick

Edited April 12, 2012 by FirefightnRick

[Quoner]

U.S. Department of Justice

950 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW

Washington, DC 20530-0001

[FirefightnRick]

I wasn't sure where to post the start of the link above so I've tried to move this thread to the "NBC Apoogizes"

thread.

Excuse the double post.

Rick

[Censored by Laurie]

About. Damn. Time.

Hopefully this serves as a springboard for re-evaluating our gun laws and especially these "Stand Your Ground"-like legislation.

[UNTFan23]

About. Damn. Time.

Hopefully this serves as a springboard for re-evaluating our gun laws and especially these "Stand Your Ground"-like legislation.

We shouldn't be touching what are commonly referred to as Castle Laws.

[yyz28]

About. Damn. Time.

Hopefully this serves as a springboard for re-evaluating our gun laws and especially these "Stand Your Ground"-like legislation.

Why? What does this case have to do with gun laws or stand your ground laws? IF Zimmerman was attacked then he had the right to defend himself. If he wasn't, then he's guilty of murder.

Done and done.

No need to evaluate gun laws or self defense laws. He's either guilty of murder or he isn't. ...unless you don't believe someone should be legally protected if they defend themselves, in which case I don't think we'll find much common ground.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Here's the positive thing:

If/When Zimmerman is convicted, the case will be appealed to the Supreme Court, if his attorney introduce the evidence about the Castle Law properly. That way, the Supreme Court will rule on Castle Laws.

Supreme Court has already peeled back intrusive gun laws. My guess is, if the court's composition is the same, they will uphold Castle Laws.

I personally don't think Zimmerman can get a fair trial anywhere in the United States, so I expect him to be convicted and for the appeals to make it to the Supreme Court in two to three years.

[keith]

The wheels of the justice system may turn slowly, but they do turn. Hopefully the truth (whatever it is) will come out and justice served. Of course, this is the same state that just went through the Casey Anthony debacle, so you never know.

Keith

[Coffee and TV]

if he shot him for any reason other than self defense, he should fry...

Let's leave the capital punishment for capital murder.

I'm surprised they're charging him with 2nd degree, I figured it was something more along the lines of negligent homicide or manslaughter.

EDIT: negligible homicide? lulz I'm silly.

Edited April 12, 2012 by Coffee and TV

[untbowler]

Let's leave the capital punishment for capital murder.

I'm surprised they're charging him with 2nd degree, I figured it was something more along the lines of negligent homicide or manslaughter.

EDIT: negligible homicide? lulz I'm silly.

First time we agree,

I am surprised they also brought in murder charges, if story is true he was getting pummeled then it should be self-defense or at worst manslaughter. Still many facts are hazy though, what time did this occur? (2:30 AM?) If early morning why is a 17 y.o. out at 2:00 AM and jumping gated fences. Was Zimmerman's vehicle marked or unmarked? If marked then why according to 911 call did Martin run?

Also there is no way Zimmerman will get a fair trial, but also why have the NBP's not been charged for putting a bounty on his head, Spike Lee inciting violence on the wrong address, etc....

This has Duke Lacrosse case written all over it, unfortunately a young man is dead.

Edited April 12, 2012 by untbowler

[Coffee and TV]

First time we agree,

I am surprised they also brought in murder charges, if story is true he was getting pummeled then it should be self-defense or at worst manslaughter. Still many facts are hazy though, what time did this occur? (2:30 AM?) If early morning why is a 17 y.o. out at 2:00 AM and jumping gated fences. Was Zimmerman's vehicle marked or unmarked? If marked then why according to 911 call did Martin run?

Also there is no way Zimmerman will get a fair trial, but also why have the NBP's not been charged for putting a bounty on his head, Spike Lee inciting violence on the wrong address, etc....

This has Duke Lacrosse case written all over it, unfortunately a young man is dead.

It all occurred around 7-7:30pm. As for the rest of your post...

[UNT90]

Here's the positive thing:

If/When Zimmerman is convicted, the case will be appealed to the Supreme Court, if his attorney introduce the evidence about the Castle Law properly. That way, the Supreme Court will rule on Castle Laws.

Supreme Court has already peeled back intrusive gun laws. My guess is, if the court's composition is the same, they will uphold Castle Laws.

I personally don't think Zimmerman can get a fair trial anywhere in the United States, so I expect him to be convicted and for the appeals to make it to the Supreme Court in two to three years.

If you are talking about the Florida Supreme court (or whatever Florida's Equivilent is the the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals), then you have an argument.

The supreme court has no jurisdicition over a state law, unless that state law enfringes on constitution rights or federal law, which Florida's does not.

Edited April 12, 2012 by UNT90

[UNT90]

Let's leave the capital punishment for capital murder.

I'm surprised they're charging him with 2nd degree, I figured it was something more along the lines of negligent homicide or manslaughter.

EDIT: negligible homicide? lulz I'm silly.

It's a big overreach. Some will say it's done to facilitate a plea agreement from a position of strength, but that is crazy talk if you have no shot at proving the crime you are charging. Any decent defense attorney would laugh in your face.

Zimmerman was charged this way for 1 of 2 reasons. 1) The special prosecutor thinks she has the evidence to prove it (doubtful considering a previous, experienced DA was hesitant to charge at all), or 2) For publicity. The only way this makes sense is if the prosecutor knows she is going to get direct verdicted out (judge rules not enough evidence for conviction beforre case goes to jury. See the guy charged with killing his wife while SCUBAing in Australia) because she doesn't have enough evidence to win and simply wants to pawn it off on the judge.

Either way, I'm sure she has already hired a publicist. Noticed the Martin family already hitting the talk show circuit this AM.

Shocking.

Interesting times ahead.

Edited April 12, 2012 by UNT90

[BeanCounterGrad'03]

What I don't understand is how the defense thinks it can win using the FL stand your ground law when there's evidence on the 911 tape that Martin was running away and that Zimmerman was chasing after him.

Of course I'm arm chair litigating, but the defense doesn't make since to me at first glance.

[Coffee and TV]

It's a big overreach. Some will say it's done to facilitate a plea agreement from a position of strength, but that is crazy talk if you have no shot at proving the crime you are charging. Any decent defense attorney would laugh in your face.

Zimmerman was charged this way for 1 of 2 reasons. 1) The special prosecutor thinks she has the evidence to prove it (doubtful considering a previous, experienced DA was hesitant to charge at all), or 2) For publicity. The only way this makes sense is if the prosecutor knows she is going to get direct verdicted out (judge rules not enough evidence for conviction beforre case goes to jury. See the guy charged with killing his wife while SCUBAing in Australia) because she doesn't have enough evidence to win and simply wants to pawn it off on the judge.

Either way, I'm sure she has already hired a publicist. Noticed the Martin family already hitting the talk show circuit this AM.

Shocking.

Interesting times ahead.

Yeah. Such a shame you can't just go around stringing up blacks anymore like the good ole days, huh?

[UNT90]

Yeah. Such a shame you can't just go around stringing up blacks anymore like the good ole days, huh?

Notice how the most prejudging ones are the first to call someone a racist?

Seems to me like it's you wanting to string up a Hispanic.

Why do you hate Hispanics?

Edited April 12, 2012 by UNT90

[Coffee and TV]

Notice how the most prejudging ones are the first to call someone a racist?

Seems to me like it's you wanting to string up a Hispanic.

Why do you hate Hispanics?

My bad, just trying to keep up with the natural order of things. You've done so much spinning and goalpost moving that its hard to keep up with all of the false narratives you keep employing.

First we were all too quick to judge because we didn't have all the facts, and we need to slow down and have patience.

Then as more facts emerged you were quick to disparage a witness who 'would do anything to get on TV' in order to stick to your talking point. You also just theorized that we wanted to believe 'conspiracy theories'.

Then as more facts came to light, you again stated that all we wanted to do was fry the guy.

Of course if its Trayvon's fault, you gotta quote the law and make sure that you can interpret better than everyone else. After all, Zimmerman was just standing his ground.

Then after the 9-1-1 calls are released shedding more light on the situation, you go back to your usual defense of saying all we want to do is nail him to the cross. "He didn't say coons, he said cold, and besides, he can be racist and it means nothing".

Of course when the girlfriend comes forward with her version of the story, you immediately label it as suspicious because she went through the Martin family spokesman. Nevermind that she's probably a minor, and any good attorney would advise someone to do the same. After all, Zimmerman's only spoken through his attorneys and he's not guilty of anything, right?

Then when more witnesses come forward and debate the idea of Zimmerman screaming for help, again they are immediately vilified and only looking to get on TV.

Of course during this whole debate you love to point out when others make assumptions on the best evidence available, and then turn around and make tons of them yourself.

Next you find out that Martin was no angel, and it had to be that thuggy 17 year old starting shit with a guy almost twice his size after previously minding his own damn

Then you went with the narrative that it must have been Trayvon. Of course. That thuggy teen escalated it and all Zimmerman was doing was going back to his car. I mean, gold teeth and suspensions for an empty bag of pot, that must mean he was up to no good!

Then of course you move onto the media. The media is behind it all. Without them creating some sort of frenzy poor George would be living his normal life. They always wanna paint a picture that liberal media. Why are they only showing the pictures given to them by their sources? Why don't they have some hidden stash of pictures of everyone they can just magically trot out? Must be some sort of conspiracy to frame Zimmerman! (Nevermind that dozens of more recent pictures of Martin, and a few of Zimmerman have been all over the news media)

Of course, after this you go back to me and other posters just looking to start riots if Zimmerman isn't hanged. (and I get crapped on for hyperbole?)

Moving on, you claim there's no evidence of a crime, despite there being a pretty fair amount that Zimmerman's story didn't quite add up. And naturally you ignore any evidence of a sloppy police investigation as well and claim we're all jumping to conclusions. (conclusions like, the police never interviewed the girlfriend after the shooting which is a fact). You keep making references to the Duke Lacrosse players, as if the two are all that analogous.

Then you dismissed the video originally because it was linked from a liberal blog, nevermind that it was embedded and the source was ABC. Oh yeah, more liberal media just trying to convict Martin. I forgot.

But then you love the video after you see an "enhanced" version that shows Zimmerman with a little cut on the back of his head, which somehow exonerates him from a crime completely.

Back to the media. Some NBC editor did a shit job of journalism and again you fly off the handle with a "all media is bias" rap. I stick to my original thought that Zimmerman let out a racist slur and of course you think I'm only hearing whatever the media tells me, and that I can't make up my own mind.

And then we move on to one of your biggest whoppers, that "without any evidence" I've already convicted the guy. Nevermind that the 9-1-1 tapes are evidence. The video we've all seen of Zimmerman at the police station? Evidence. The witness stories. Evidence. It might not all be admissible, and of course we can interpret it in different ways, but its all evidence of what happened that night. We're all using it to draw many conclusions. Yet you actually had the balls to say "without any evidence". A statement that is based on such a false narrative that I don't even bother to argue with it.

Now of course you have to pin the blame on the special prosecutor not calling on the grand jury. Its gotta be political. Again the accusations of bias come around without any relation to the facts. She must be under some sort of pressure. She couldn't possibly do as good of a job as 12 random citizens could in evaluating the evidence. Its not her background or anything. She's not held to any sort of higher standards than a grand jury would be, right?

And finally we can't end it all without insulting the family, huh? No insinuation that because they're looking for justice that makes them greedy or some sort of media whores. Making the talk show rounds? Oh no! I know you sure called out Caley Anthony's parents when they were on CNN. You wouldn't stop creating topics vilifying them for appearing on Larry King. I remember that well.

So. Everyone's guilty in your eyes but Zimmerman. Us posters for jumping to conclusions, the media for creating their own narrative, the witnesses who are only media whores, the parents you accuse on the same, the special prosecutor for being politically motivated, Al Sharpton and the like for holding rallies, Trayvon Martin for his past brushes with trouble, and basically anyone who thinks Zimmerman might have committed a crime that night. Pretty much everyone is guilty of something in your eyes except for the man who pulled the trigger. All the while you superficially act superior to the rest of us by claiming we can't see through our own judgments, and all we hold are biases, while pretty much exposing your own time and time again.

And more goalpost moving you'd like to add?

<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">

[UNT90]

My bad, just trying to keep up with the natural order of things. You've done so much spinning and goalpost moving that its hard to keep up with all of the false narratives you keep employing.

First we were all too quick to judge because we didn't have all the facts, and we need to slow down and have patience.

Then as more facts emerged you were quick to disparage a witness who 'would do anything to get on TV' in order to stick to your talking point. You also just theorized that we wanted to believe 'conspiracy theories'.

Then as more facts came to light, you again stated that all we wanted to do was fry the guy.

Of course if its Trayvon's fault, you gotta quote the law and make sure that you can interpret better than everyone else. After all, Zimmerman was just standing his ground.

Then after the 9-1-1 calls are released shedding more light on the situation, you go back to your usual defense of saying all we want to do is nail him to the cross. "He didn't say coons, he said cold, and besides, he can be racist and it means nothing".

Of course when the girlfriend comes forward with her version of the story, you immediately label it as suspicious because she went through the Martin family spokesman. Nevermind that she's probably a minor, and any good attorney would advise someone to do the same. After all, Zimmerman's only spoken through his attorneys and he's not guilty of anything, right?

Then when more witnesses come forward and debate the idea of Zimmerman screaming for help, again they are immediately vilified and only looking to get on TV.

Of course during this whole debate you love to point out when others make assumptions on the best evidence available, and then turn around and make tons of them yourself.

Next you find out that Martin was no angel, and it had to be that thuggy 17 year old starting shit with a guy almost twice his size after previously minding his own damn

Then you went with the narrative that it must have been Trayvon. Of course. That thuggy teen escalated it and all Zimmerman was doing was going back to his car. I mean, gold teeth and suspensions for an empty bag of pot, that must mean he was up to no good!

Then of course you move onto the media. The media is behind it all. Without them creating some sort of frenzy poor George would be living his normal life. They always wanna paint a picture that liberal media. Why are they only showing the pictures given to them by their sources? Why don't they have some hidden stash of pictures of everyone they can just magically trot out? Must be some sort of conspiracy to frame Zimmerman! (Nevermind that dozens of more recent pictures of Martin, and a few of Zimmerman have been all over the news media)

Of course, after this you go back to me and other posters just looking to start riots if Zimmerman isn't hanged. (and I get crapped on for hyperbole?)

Moving on, you claim there's no evidence of a crime, despite there being a pretty fair amount that Zimmerman's story didn't quite add up. And naturally you ignore any evidence of a sloppy police investigation as well and claim we're all jumping to conclusions. (conclusions like, the police never interviewed the girlfriend after the shooting which is a fact). You keep making references to the Duke Lacrosse players, as if the two are all that analogous.

Then you dismissed the video originally because it was linked from a liberal blog, nevermind that it was embedded and the source was ABC. Oh yeah, more liberal media just trying to convict Martin. I forgot.

But then you love the video after you see an "enhanced" version that shows Zimmerman with a little cut on the back of his head, which somehow exonerates him from a crime completely.

Back to the media. Some NBC editor did a shit job of journalism and again you fly off the handle with a "all media is bias" rap. I stick to my original thought that Zimmerman let out a racist slur and of course you think I'm only hearing whatever the media tells me, and that I can't make up my own mind.

And then we move on to one of your biggest whoppers, that "without any evidence" I've already convicted the guy. Nevermind that the 9-1-1 tapes are evidence. The video we've all seen of Zimmerman at the police station? Evidence. The witness stories. Evidence. It might not all be admissible, and of course we can interpret it in different ways, but its all evidence of what happened that night. We're all using it to draw many conclusions. Yet you actually had the balls to say "without any evidence". A statement that is based on such a false narrative that I don't even bother to argue with it.

Now of course you have to pin the blame on the special prosecutor not calling on the grand jury. Its gotta be political. Again the accusations of bias come around without any relation to the facts. She must be under some sort of pressure. She couldn't possibly do as good of a job as 12 random citizens could in evaluating the evidence. Its not her background or anything. She's not held to any sort of higher standards than a grand jury would be, right?

And finally we can't end it all without insulting the family, huh? No insinuation that because they're looking for justice that makes them greedy or some sort of media whores. Making the talk show rounds? Oh no! I know you sure called out Caley Anthony's parents when they were on CNN. You wouldn't stop creating topics vilifying them for appearing on Larry King. I remember that well.

So. Everyone's guilty in your eyes but Zimmerman. Us posters for jumping to conclusions, the media for creating their own narrative, the witnesses who are only media whores, the parents you accuse on the same, the special prosecutor for being politically motivated, Al Sharpton and the like for holding rallies, Trayvon Martin for his past brushes with trouble, and basically anyone who thinks Zimmerman might have committed a crime that night. Pretty much everyone is guilty of something in your eyes except for the man who pulled the trigger. All the while you superficially act superior to the rest of us by claiming we can't see through our own judgments, and all we hold are biases, while pretty much exposing your own time and time again.

And more goalpost moving you'd like to add?

<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">

Soooo....

Why do you hate Hispanics?

[rcade]

And more goalpost moving you'd like to add?

That was an epic takedown. I haven't seen a beatdown that bad since Tyson-Spinks.

To me, the second degree murder charge suggests that something in Zimmerman's story doesn't check out. But we'll see. He'll have his day in court, which is a good thing. You shouldn't be able to shoot an unarmed person walking to their home, claim self defense and get off without an extensive criminal inquiry into your actions.

[KRAM1]

The wheels of the justice system may turn slowly, but they do turn. Hopefully the truth (whatever it is) will come out and justice served. Of course, this is the same state that just went through the Casey Anthony debacle, so you never know.

Keith

This is what concerns me here...it's Florida...home of hanging chad and Casey Anthony debacles. The charges brought by the prosecutor are about as tough as she could have made them. I think that has something to do with "public opinion" and not as much the search for real justice. But, hopefully, the system will work...it usually does, and the Al Sharpton's and Jesse Jackon's of the world will stop running around trying to get their 15 minutes of fame in this deal and let the court and jury do its job. I wonder if a change of venue might be in order here?

This will be interesting to watch...all kinds of conspiracy nut cases already out on this one, and it does not look good for Zimmerman due to the press situation. Has there been a talk show created that the parents of Trevon have been on or a news cast?

I don't have a dog in this hunt, so maybe I can be a bit more impartial in saying I have no clue if Zimmerman is innocent under Florida law or not. That remains to be seen...but the guy has certainly been tired and convicted in the court of public opinion...shame on everyone who had a hand in that....

Tragedies always take their toll and this is certainly a tragedy. Interesting how people find themselves in the situations they are and it is interesting to look back and see how the paths of these two people crossed and what might have been if either of them had made a few different choices.

Sad...very sad. Even "sadder" when you think how the media whores and self-serving folks have weighed into the deal.

[UNT90]

That was an epic takedown. I haven't seen a beatdown that bad since Tyson-Spinks.

To me, the second degree murder charge suggests that something in Zimmerman's story doesn't check out. But we'll see. He'll have his day in court, which is a good thing. You shouldn't be able to shoot an unarmed person walking to their home, claim self defense and get off without an extensive criminal inquiry into your actions.

I think you 2 should get a room get the Prejudiced Inn.

Do you hate Hispanics, also?

[oldguystudent]

Heard on the radio that the 2nd degree murder charge includes a lesser fallback of manslaughter. So the most likely scenario is charge with murder 2 for the publicity and the the "tough on crime" image for the prosecutor, and still get the conviction/win with the ultimate decision for manslaughter.

Incidentally, I have very little knowledge of this case. I've somehow missed most of the media blitz, so I therefore take no opinion on it.

[UNT90]

Flame away, prejudging ones.