BIG DAY MONDAY - March 26th

[KRAM1]

A very historic event will begin this next Monday...the U.S. Supreme Court will begin three days of hearings on the constitutionality of ObamaCare. This will be greatness at the highest levels of our government and courts. It's the hottest ticket in DC these days with even Congressmen and Senators begging folks for tickets. Hard to get...harder than a Super Bowl ticket!

There is MUCH at stake here, and the ruling that comes could reshape how the US Constitution is viewed and interpreted for years to come. It's the "mandates" part of the bill that the court will be reviewing NOT the constitutionality of a national health care plan...it's the mandates, folks...the mandates and the federal govt's right to require certain things of its citizens and its states.

We should all watch this three days very very closely...it will have profound impact on all our lives and the lives of future generations to come...which ever way the ruling goes.

We discuss lots of things here on GMG.Com, many of which are fun and full of interesting opinions one way or the other, but which, at the end of the day are only good discussions. BUT, this event is historic and meaningful for perhaps generations to come and for the way this great nation of ours is governed going forward.

I would hate to be a Supreme Court justice right now and have the weight of this decision on my shoulders. I KNOW how I would rule, but glad I am not tasked with this decision. It is simply....so very important to this great nation of ours that I don't know if I could do it. I am grateful that we have men and women capable of making such decisions and I hope and pray for their strength and well being during this process.

May God grant the justices wisdom and help them achieve a just and, in this case, a constitutionally correct decision. So very much rides on this decision.

[untbowler]

guess we will see if the constitution holds water anymore these days or is it just some old faded paper to wipe ones butt with.

[UNTLifer]

I would hate to be a Supreme Court justice right now and have the weight of this decision on my shoulders.

I wouldn't. I know how I would vote and I would take the opportunity to tell Mr. Obama what I thought.

[Coffee and TV]

guess we will see if the constitution holds water anymore these days or is it just some old faded paper to wipe ones butt with.

I wouldn't recommend that. It probably wouldn't absorb very well and just break up into smaller pieces.

[gksmith]

This is not that different an issue then the State of Texas (and almost all states) requiring drivers to have auto insurance. People without health insurance are a huge burden on the healthcare system. The ER cannot refuse to treat you because you don’t have health insurance. The hospital and doctors can bill you but if you can’t pay…what are they going to do other than mess with your credit rating?

This is not part of the case but insurance companies need to change too. My wife and I have had health insurance the whole time. But if you get seriously sick, the insurance companies don’t pay enough and insurance premiums and deductibles are extremely high. I can see how it can be really easy to get into unmanageable debt if you have 1 or 2 years with a somewhat expensive condition. God help you if you change employment or your company changes insurance carriers. I am in a fight right now because my company changed carriers in January and the previous carrier will not pay the bills from last year.

[UNTFan23]

This is not that different an issue then the State of Texas (and almost all states) requiring drivers to have auto insurance.

The thing with auto insurance is that you only need it if you have a driver's license. If you don't have a DL then you don't need auto insurance.

Basically the federal government is telling everyone in the country is they have to have health insurance. There is no way to opt out of the requirement except to move to another country or die.

No one truly knows how much all this is going to cost everyone because all the "free" bells and whistles have not been baked into the insurance premiums yet.

[Cr1028]

This is not that different an issue then the State of Texas (and almost all states) requiring drivers to have auto insurance.

Piggybacking on what 23 said, a person is not required to carry liability auto insurance unless they intend to drive on a public roadway. If you do not drive or do not drive on public roads, you do not need to carry liability auto insurance.

The health insurance plans requires you carry health insurance or pay a fine simply for having a pulse and living in the United States. This could have major implications on the future of our federal government and the power it possesses over its citizens.

Edited March 22, 2012 by Cr1028

[DoubleEagle]

This is not that different an issue then the State of Texas (and almost all states) requiring drivers to have auto insurance.

Actually, it is completely different. The U.S. Constitution explicitly states which powers the federal government may exercise. All other powers not delegated to the federal government fall within the purview of the individual state governments.

By extension, a state such as Massachusetts can require it's citizens to purchase health insurance but the federal government's attempt to do the same is questionable legally.

[KRAM1]

This is not that different an issue then the State of Texas (and almost all states) requiring drivers to have auto insurance. People without health insurance are a huge burden on the healthcare system. The ER cannot refuse to treat you because you don't have health insurance. The hospital and doctors can bill you but if you can't pay…what are they going to do other than mess with your credit rating?

This is not part of the case but insurance companies need to change too. My wife and I have had health insurance the whole time. But if you get seriously sick, the insurance companies don't pay enough and insurance premiums and deductibles are extremely high. I can see how it can be really easy to get into unmanageable debt if you have 1 or 2 years with a somewhat expensive condition. God help you if you change employment or your company changes insurance carriers. I am in a fight right now because my company changed carriers in January and the previous carrier will not pay the bills from last year.

You are seriously mistaken, sir. This is MYCH much different that states requiring auto insurance.

Really sorry to hear of the challenges you are having with coverage at the moment...I wish you the best in getting that resolved.

[FirefightnRick]

"Obama still lying about mother's health insurance problem"

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2012/03/19/obama-nabbed-again-lying-about-mother-health-insurance-problem/

".....Last summer, a brief stir was caused when a book published by New York Times reporter Janny Scott uncovered an uncomfortable fact about President Obama: He had been lying about his mother’s health insurance problems. During the 2008 campaign and throughout the subsequent debate over his signature health care legislation, the president used his mother’s experience as a cancer patient fighting to get coverage to pay for treatment for what her insurer said was a pre-existing condition as an emotional argument to sway skeptics. But as Scott discovered during the course of writing her biography of Anne Dunham, A Singular Woman: The Untold Story of Barack Obama’s Mother, it turned out that her correspondence showed that “the 1995 dispute concerned a Cigna disability insurance policy and that her actual health insurer had apparently reimbursed most of her medical expenses without argument....."

Rick

Edited March 23, 2012 by FirefightnRick

[gksmith]

The point I am trying to make between driver liability insurance and healthcare insurance is that you are using the system.

If you are going to drive then, you have to have at least liability insurance (to be legal) so if you are in an accident, you will not cause undue expenses on the system…including the other driver.

If you are going to use the healthcare system but have no insurance you cause an undue expense on the system. Hospitals and ER doctors lose millions of dollars every year partly because they have to treat people without insurance and do not get paid. The doctors and hospitals can write off the debt on taxes, but then that puts the burden on the Federal and State governments.

Driving is optional. That is foreseeable. You can refuse to own a car, refuse to drive anywhere. You do not run the risk of ever using the system.

Health is not optional. There is always something that comes up. You can’t realistically expect to never use the healthcare system. Sickness happens. Accidents happen. Home builders accidently shoot nails in their heads. People trip over stairs and break a bone. People get the flu (or some other illness) and run the risk of dying without treatment. In some instances an employer or some other insurance will cover it. But the individual is responsible for their own healthcare and expenses. Without insurance, the individual causes a burden on the system.

[KRAM1]

Here we go! Countdown is on........Sure wish i had a ticket and could be in DC to watch this one in person. Historic stuff here, folks.

May God grant our justices the wisdom and fortitude to make the right and just decision. So very much depends upon this decision.

[Rudy]

I wouldn't recommend that. It probably wouldn't absorb very well and just break up into smaller pieces.

Not if you put lemon juice on it. Didn't you watch "National Treasure"?

[Cr1028]

The point I am trying to make between driver liability insurance and healthcare insurance is that you are using the system.

If you are going to drive then, you have to have at least liability insurance (to be legal) so if you are in an accident, you will not cause undue expenses on the system…including the other driver.

If you are going to use the healthcare system but have no insurance you cause an undue expense on the system. Hospitals and ER doctors lose millions of dollars every year partly because they have to treat people without insurance and do not get paid. The doctors and hospitals can write off the debt on taxes, but then that puts the burden on the Federal and State governments.

Driving is optional. That is foreseeable. You can refuse to own a car, refuse to drive anywhere. You do not run the risk of ever using the system.

Health is not optional. There is always something that comes up. You can’t realistically expect to never use the healthcare system. Sickness happens. Accidents happen. Home builders accidently shoot nails in their heads. People trip over stairs and break a bone. People get the flu (or some other illness) and run the risk of dying without treatment. In some instances an employer or some other insurance will cover it. But the individual is responsible for their own healthcare and expenses. Without insurance, the individual causes a burden on the system.

You are not required the have auto liability insurance, only to maintain financial responsiblity. If you have $55k in cash, you could deposit it with the State Comptroller or the County Judge where the vehicle is registered and not have to buy insurance at all.

Would the wealthy be able to maintain healthcare financial responsiblity in the same way? Or, would they be required to buy an insurance policy to lower the risk of the total pool regardless of the individual's financial resources?

I do not know the answer to my question. I would like to know though. Has anyone read the bill and can tell me the answer?

[Rudy]

I do not know the answer to my question. I would like to know though. Has anyone read the bill and can tell me the answer?

Ha! Most of congress probably still haven't read the bill.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

Preamble to the Constitution:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

_________________________

--No I don't mean welfare as in welfare checks.... there are a lot of things in this bill that protects people from having their insurance just cut off if you start making claims.... which is a big problem now.... Honestly there is a lot I don't like but there is a lot there that is needed to give us some protestion from insurance companies.. A lot of the provisions are already now in effect.. most of which are protecting you from insurance companies and their decisions to not cover you or cut cut off coverage.... No I am not a big supporter of it and don't pretend to understand it all... but some of it has been needed.

Ever watch the movie Rainmaker.??? Lots of truth there. The insurance lobby is one of the most powerful and has provented a lot of needed reforms from being passed.

Edited March 26, 2012 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[KRAM1]

Preamble to the Constitution:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

_________________________

--No I don't mean welfare as in welfare checks.... there are a lot of things in this bill that protects people from having their insurance just cut off if you start making claims.... which is a big problem now.... Honestly there is a lot I don't like but there is a lot there that is needed to give us some protestion from insurance companies.. A lot of the provisions are already in effect.. most of which are protecting you from insurance companies and their decisions to not cover you or cut cut off coverage.... No I am not a big supporter and don't pretend to understand tit all... but some of it has been needed.

Ever watch the movie Rainmaker.??? Lots of truth there. The insurance lobby is one of the most powerful and prevents a lot of needed reforms from being passed.

Don't think it's the "General Welfare" clause that will be in question, but rather the "Commerce Clause".

I think the vote will be close whichever way it goes...And so it begins....

[Harry]

For those wanting to follow - here is NYT blog that is being updated throughout the day. As KRAM has pointed out this is monumental stuff and should be very interesting to follow!

[Coffee and TV]

Gonna go ahead and make a bold prediction: The Supreme Court will not only uphold the law, but will do so with more than a 5-4 votes, ala 6-3 or 7-2.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

"Obama still lying about mother's health insurance problem"

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2012/03/19/obama-nabbed-again-lying-about-mother-health-insurance-problem/

".....Last summer, a brief stir was caused when a book published by New York Times reporter Janny Scott uncovered an uncomfortable fact about President Obama: He had been lying about his mother’s health insurance problems. During the 2008 campaign and throughout the subsequent debate over his signature health care legislation, the president used his mother’s experience as a cancer patient fighting to get coverage to pay for treatment for what her insurer said was a pre-existing condition as an emotional argument to sway skeptics. But as Scott discovered during the course of writing her biography of Anne Dunham, A Singular Woman: The Untold Story of Barack Obama’s Mother, it turned out that her correspondence showed that “the 1995 dispute concerned a Cigna disability insurance policy and that her actual health insurer had apparently reimbursed most of her medical expenses without argument....."

Rick

---A friend of mine died of cancer after a dispute with an insurance company... they stopped coverage... and he could not afford treatment.

[UNT90]

---A friend of mine died of cancer after a dispute with an insurance company... they stopped coverage... and he could not afford treatment.

A friend of mine went broke after the government overtaxed his estate and claimed penalties that were completely outrageous.

But I'm sure they would do better with your health care.

Can we leave emotion out of this?

[UNT90]

Gonna go ahead and make a bold prediction: The Supreme Court will not only uphold the law, but will do so with more than a 5-4 votes, ala 6-3 or 7-2.

Really? Would you care to explain what in their collective background would lead you to believe that Alito, Roberts, Kennedy, Scalia, or Thomas would break ranks and approve the mandates?

Keegan also showed herself to be a bit of a wildcard when she sided with these 5 in a recent decision.

I think the only way they don't rule the mandates unconstitutional (probably 5-4. Keegan was the advocate for the Obama administration before appointment to the Supremes, after all) is if 1 of the conservative block thinks that it is up to the American voters to make a decision on health care in November. But, I don't think that is likely. At all.

Edited March 26, 2012 by UNT90

[FirefightnRick]

---A friend of mine died of cancer after a dispute with an insurance company... they stopped coverage... and he could not afford treatment.

Sorry, Im not buying it. I work in the middle of the poorest region and among the poorest individuals there are and have yet to see or hear of a single person being refused the opportunity to fight cancer, or any other illness.

Rick

[FirefightnRick]

The 10 Terrible Provisions of Obamacare You May Not Have Heard Of

http://blog.heritage.org/2012/03/07/the-10-terrible-provisions-of-obamacare-you-may-not-have-heard-of/

Rick

[FirefightnRick]

Kate Hicks was there today for Townhall.com.

Is the Mandate a Tax? Supreme Court Takes On Obamacare

http://m.townhall.com/columnists/katehicks/2012/03/26/supreme_court_considers_if_obamacare_mandate_is_a_tax

Rick