Issues with Alliance

Green Lantern · March 21, 2012

brevity is how people wake up to the reality that once again they are not where they wish they will be or where they want to be

because brevity is things like "we will be in the top 25 to 50% of budgets if we get in the Alliance"

when the reality is that is probably far from true

I had a long discussion in the past about how much new money the athletics fee would bring in...."brevity" was predicting things like 12 million+

I said it would be about 6.5 to 7 million tops and supported that with length....I also stated that most of it would be spent on paying for the stadium and I was again called out by "brevity"

and of course now we all know that with the new student fee and stadium UNTs athletics budget went from 16.6 million to 22.4 million......about 6 million more

and we also know from the expensive Neinas report that the vast majority of that was going to be spent on paying for the stadium.....because that was clearly stated right in the first couple of pages of the Neinas report.....it was more lengthy than my post....but it also cost a lot more as well...

some topics take more than tweets to discuss in a factual way

What is it exactly that you're trying to prove with your presence here? That you hate UNT. Ok, got it. You've provided us all with several novels worth of material. We get your point.

TIgreen01 · March 21, 2012

because brevity is things like "we will be in the top 25 to 50% of budgets if we get in the Alliance"

when the reality is that is probably far from true

Explain, por favor.

UNTexas · March 21, 2012

What is it exactly that you're trying to prove with your presence here? That you hate UNT. Ok, got it. You've provided us all with several novels worth of material. We get your point.

I am glad I am not the only one who read these angry posts this way. I love UNT and could honestly care less about other schools, their fans, or angry bloggers that hate my alma mater. Anyway, two things:

1. If we get into this new conference it will be good for the entire athletic department and university.

2. The pedestrian bridge is coming along well. I just stopped to look from the Fouts parking lot.

forevereagle · March 21, 2012

brevity is how people wake up to the reality that once again they are not where they wish they will be or where they want to be

because brevity is things like "we will be in the top 25 to 50% of budgets if we get in the Alliance"

when the reality is that is probably far from true

I had a long discussion in the past about how much new money the athletics fee would bring in...."brevity" was predicting things like 12 million+

I said it would be about 6.5 to 7 million tops and supported that with length....I also stated that most of it would be spent on paying for the stadium and I was again called out by "brevity"

and of course now we all know that with the new student fee and stadium UNTs athletics budget went from 16.6 million to 22.4 million......about 6 million more

and we also know from the expensive Neinas report that the vast majority of that was going to be spent on paying for the stadium.....because that was clearly stated right in the first couple of pages of the Neinas report.....it was more lengthy than my post....but it also cost a lot more as well...

some topics take more than tweets to discuss in a factual way

Brevity

1. shortness of time or duration; briefness: the brevity of human life.

2. the quality of expressing much in few words; terseness: Brevity is the soul of wit.

Brevity is a communication skill, not a way of sugar coating.

PlummMeanGreen · March 21, 2012

brevity is how people wake up to the reality that once again they are not where they wish they will be or where they want to be

because brevity is things like "we will be in the top 25 to 50% of budgets if we get in the Alliance"

when the reality is that is probably far from true

I had a long discussion in the past about how much new money the athletics fee would bring in...."brevity" was predicting things like 12 million+

I said it would be about 6.5 to 7 million tops and supported that with length....I also stated that most of it would be spent on paying for the stadium and I was again called out by "brevity"

and of course now we all know that with the new student fee and stadium UNTs athletics budget went from 16.6 million to 22.4 million......about 6 million more

and we also know from the expensive Neinas report that the vast majority of that was going to be spent on paying for the stadium.....because that was clearly stated right in the first couple of pages of the Neinas report.....it was more lengthy than my post....but it also cost a lot more as well...

some topics take more than tweets to discuss in a factual way

Seriously, is this more of a "hate North Texas" thing or a "dammitt, I wish my school was where North Texas is right now" thing?"

Not that it matters, but do we yet know what school that you represent or will that continue to be a mystery?

Southern MIss is doing all that they are (successfully) doing in CUSA as a school with much less school endowment coffers than UNT's and a budget that is hardly

light years ahead of ours, either.

GL2Greatness............you were not around this program in the 60's (the Mean Joe Greene era) and 70's (the Hayden Fry era) when many of us who were caught

a glimpse of what Mean Green football could really become with the right leadership in place. And now we have replaced our 50 plus year albatross of a football stadium with one that former Dallas Cowboy Super Scout Gil Brandt called "a Taj Mahal of a college football stadium." (Brandt said that with all confidence, too, because he also said he had been in every college football stadium in the USA as the first NFL scout to use a computer for the NFL draft).

I digress once again....but back in the dark days of MG athletics we older alums could not help (and had no say or input whatsoever) that for the next 30 plus years we kept hiring 1-AA talent who kept con'ing

many who were naive enough to believe that we were well on our way back to NCAA D1-A but guess what, GL2Greatness, for the most part we have all

the right pieces of the puzzle back in place as to where North Texas can be an integral and contributing member of this Alliance. Matter of fact, we will do much, much more

than bring this Alliance the #5 ranked TV market if invited. And we have had a history of having competed at the NCAA's highest level when so many out there have not.

Signed: DJ Plummy (as you have called me) ...................but .....:"sticks and stones" (and you would know the rest of that one).

GMG!

Edited March 21, 2012 by PlummMeanGreen

GL2Greatness · March 22, 2012

What is it exactly that you're trying to prove with your presence here? That you hate UNT. Ok, got it. You've provided us all with several novels worth of material. We get your point.

just because someone discusses something using actual information and facts VS sunshine pumping and half truths and lies that does not mean they have some huge agenda it just means they live in a world of reality instead of a world of huge expectations followed by huge disappointment

like in the thread about "tier 1" where I explained that numbers of donors does not count for anything....but I was immediately called out for that and challenged by the "big spendaz" of UNT.....even though I was correct and they were wrong.....why anyone would have an agenda to spread false information about how donations count is beyond me, but they seem to have it.....and when other universities gain NRUF funding before UNT they will be the first to wonder why

Explain, por favor.

http://www.bizjournals.com/memphis/news/2012/02/08/how-much-does-your-university-spend-on.html

the above is for the 2010-2011 athletics budget year....state fiscal budgets in Texas usually end at the end of August and the UNT athletics fee did not kick in until fall of 2011....the report above does not list a time period of actual months and since athletics seasons do not match up to semesters in exact dates or with fiscal years there is some ambiguity

but here are the numbers from that report

University of Nevada-Las Vegas Mountain West NV $56,027,699 $3,806,508 $6,745,418 $56,027,699

University of Central Florida Conference USA FL $37,821,564 $3,073,522 $12,706,791 $37,821,564

East Carolina University Conference USA NC $30,999,715 $2,150,891 $8,644,561 $32,558,927

University of Hawaii WAC HI $31,151,191 $2,032,468 $8,860,417 $31,607,695

Tulane University Conference USA LA $24,626,024 $2,012,935 $7,448,332 $30,200,024

Rice University Conference USA TX $29,750,082 $3,678,909 $12,261,854 $29,750,082

University of New Mexico Mountain West NM $29,261,501 $3,825,760 $6,679,522 $29,261,501

Fresno State WAC CA $26,966,469 $1,768,355 $7,040,523 $29,254,566

University of Wyoming Mountain West WY $27,800,440 $2,670,401 $5,770,034 $27,800,440

Colorado State University Mountain West CO $24,520,840 $2,342,597 $7,744,375 $26,757,801

University of Alabama at Birmingham Conference USA AL $25,076,684 $2,732,944 $6,625,462 $25,103,99

University of Texas at El Paso Conference USA TX $24,325,260 $3,600,201 $8,033,088 $24,359,091

Marshall University Conference USA WV $23,392,087 $2,483,894 $6,324,868 $24,690,027

University of North Texas Sun Belt TX $22,417,616 $1,863,022 $6,824,909 $22,417,616

University of Southern Mississippi Conference USA MS $20,440,121 $1,806,789 $6,404,547 $20,440,121

University of Nevada-Reno WAC NV $20,966,594 $1,889,776 $5,764,438 $20,966,594

the Neinas report list 4 million dollars as the amount that UNT will gain in additional monies from the student fee.....I personally believe much of that gain is listed in the budget above because the previous years athletics budget for UNT was 16.6 million

http://meangreenblog.dentonrc.com/Neinas%20report.pdf

I had the student fee adding 6 to 7 million dollars, but Chuck makes the big dollars for his reports and Chuck has the the full breakdown of who pays the fee and who does not and Chuck had the athletics and academic administration available to him to look over his numbers before the report was released to the public and Chuck says 4 million

so if you add the full 4 million to the 22 million that would still put UNT below 11 other teams in a 17 team Alliance and if the 18th team has a budget below UNTs that would still not put UNT in the upper 50% of budgets

even if you add my 7 million guestimate to the 22 million that would only just barely put UNT in the upper 50% of budgets and not near the top 25% and that is with all other teams staying stagnant which is unlikely and 7 million is a pretty high guestimate and I believe there is a portion of new student fee monies already in that 22.4 million

so I don't think UNT will be in the upper 50% of athletics budgets in an 18 or even a 20 team alliance by even the most optimistic of projections I think they will be in the top of the lower 50% and more likely somewhere below that

Edited March 22, 2012 by GL2Greatness

UNTexas · March 22, 2012

just because someone discusses something using actual information and facts VS sunshine pumping and half truths and lies that does not mean they have some huge agenda it just means they live in a world of reality instead of a world of huge expectations followed by huge disappointment

like in the thread about "tier 1" where I explained that numbers of donors does not count for anything....but I was immediately called out for that and challenged by the "big spendaz" of UNT.....even though I was correct and they were wrong.....why anyone would have an agenda to spread false information about how donations count is beyond me, but they seem to have it.....and when other universities gain NRUF funding before UNT they will be the first to wonder why

http://www.bizjournals.com/memphis/news/2012/02/08/how-much-does-your-university-spend-on.html

the above is for the 2010-2011 athletics budget year....state fiscal budgets in Texas usually end at the end of August and the UNT athletics fee did not kick in until fall of 2011....the report above does not list a time period of actual months and since athletics seasons do not match up to semesters in exact dates or with fiscal years there is some ambiguity

but here are the numbers from that report

University of Nevada-Las Vegas Mountain West NV $56,027,699 $3,806,508 $6,745,418 $56,027,699

University of Central Florida Conference USA FL $37,821,564 $3,073,522 $12,706,791 $37,821,564

East Carolina University Conference USA NC $30,999,715 $2,150,891 $8,644,561 $32,558,927

University of Hawaii WAC HI $31,151,191 $2,032,468 $8,860,417 $31,607,695

Tulane University Conference USA LA $24,626,024 $2,012,935 $7,448,332 $30,200,024

Rice University Conference USA TX $29,750,082 $3,678,909 $12,261,854 $29,750,082

University of New Mexico Mountain West NM $29,261,501 $3,825,760 $6,679,522 $29,261,501

Fresno State WAC CA $26,966,469 $1,768,355 $7,040,523 $29,254,566

University of Wyoming Mountain West WY $27,800,440 $2,670,401 $5,770,034 $27,800,440

Colorado State University Mountain West CO $24,520,840 $2,342,597 $7,744,375 $26,757,801

University of Alabama at Birmingham Conference USA AL $25,076,684 $2,732,944 $6,625,462 $25,103,99

University of Texas at El Paso Conference USA TX $24,325,260 $3,600,201 $8,033,088 $24,359,091

Marshall University Conference USA WV $23,392,087 $2,483,894 $6,324,868 $24,690,027

University of North Texas Sun Belt TX $22,417,616 $1,863,022 $6,824,909 $22,417,616

University of Southern Mississippi Conference USA MS $20,440,121 $1,806,789 $6,404,547 $20,440,121

University of Nevada-Reno WAC NV $20,966,594 $1,889,776 $5,764,438 $20,966,594

the Neinas report list 4 million dollars as the amount that UNT will gain in additional monies from the student fee.....I personally believe much of that gain is listed in the budget above because the previous years athletics budget for UNT was 16.6 million

http://meangreenblog.dentonrc.com/Neinas%20report.pdf

I had the student fee adding 6 to 7 million dollars, but Chuck makes the big dollars for his reports and Chuck has the the full breakdown of who pays the fee and who does not and Chuck had the athletics and academic administration available to him to look over his numbers before the report was released to the public and Chuck says 4 million

so if you add the full 4 million to the 22 million that would still put UNT below 11 other teams in a 17 team Alliance and if the 18th team has a budget below UNTs that would still not put UNT in the upper 50% of budgets

even if you add my 7 million guestimate to the 22 million that would only just barely put UNT in the upper 50% of budgets and not near the top 25% and that is with all other teams staying stagnant which is unlikely and 7 million is a pretty high guestimate and I believe there is a portion of new student fee monies already in that 22.4 million

so I don't think UNT will be in the upper 50% of athletics budgets in an 18 or even a 20 team alliance by even the most optimistic of projections I think they will be in the top of the lower 50% and more likely somewhere below that

Dear god man! Stop! Get a hobby, a friend, or perhaps a pet. No one is reading your ridiculous rants. We get it. You can cut, paste, and rant like a homeless person.

Ok, now in your response I want no less than 5,000 words and I expect it proof read this time.

GrandGreen · March 22, 2012

If you are going to play accountant, equalize the ship cost between privates and public and account for conference distributions. CUSA and MWC both have millions more than the next to nothing that Belt members receive. Obviously the MWC and CUSA members that join the alliance will probably get significant less and NT if it goes to the Alliance would get substantially more.

Also before you quote a lot of almost meaningless NCAA reported revenues and expenses, figure out what influences the institutional expenses and contributions have on the budget. It is easy to manipulate budget numbers by allocating costs and than offsetting it with institutional contributions. While some of these entries are legit, IMO they make the whole thing questionable.

GL2Greatness · March 22, 2012

If you are going to play accountant, equalize the ship cost between privates and public and account for conference distributions. CUSA and MWC both have millions more than the next to nothing that Belt members receive. Obviously the MWC and CUSA members that join the alliance will probably get significant less and NT if it goes to the Alliance would get substantially more.

Also before you quote a lot of almost meaningless NCAA reported revenues and expenses, figure out what influences the institutional expenses and contributions have on the budget. It is easy to manipulate budget numbers by allocating costs and than offsetting it with institutional contributions. While some of these entries are legit, IMO they make the whole thing questionable.

should I also factor in that Chuck said in his report that the vast majority of the new student fee money would be eaten up be servicing the debt on the new stadium or should I pretend as though that money represents a huge new amount of money for UNT to make further improvements with?

and should I factor in that those student fees only can legally cover half of the cost of the stadium which means the expense of the other half still needs to be accounted for....or should I pretend that half will get paid for out of thin air or that Apogee covered 100% of that?

eulessismore · March 22, 2012

should I also factor in that Chuck said in his report that the vast majority of the new student fee money would be eaten up be servicing the debt on the new stadium or should I pretend as though that money represents a huge new amount of money for UNT to make further improvements with?

and should I factor in that those student fees only can legally cover half of the cost of the stadium which means the expense of the other half still needs to be accounted for....or should I pretend that half will get paid for out of thin air or that Apogee covered 100% of that?

You should tell us how much you've contributed towards Apogee debt retirement, challenge the rest of us to match that stupendous amount, then provide us sufficient identification that a life insurance policy could be purchased on you and those you "socialize with". Boone Pickens would be flattered that we honored one of his admirers in that way.

See, it's not so hard to take a few scattered "facts" and construct a coherent narrative, now is it?

forevereagle · March 22, 2012

should I also factor in that Chuck said in his report that the vast majority of the new student fee money would be eaten up be servicing the debt on the new stadium or should I pretend as though that money represents a huge new amount of money for UNT to make further improvements with?

and should I factor in that those student fees only can legally cover half of the cost of the stadium which means the expense of the other half still needs to be accounted for....or should I pretend that half will get paid for out of thin air or that Apogee covered 100% of that?

Hard to take you seriously when you don't use proper punctuation and inconsistent capitalization. You come off as so well educated and informed.

UNTexas · March 22, 2012

should I also factor in that Chuck said in his report that the vast majority of the new student fee money would be eaten up be servicing the debt on the new stadium or should I pretend as though that money represents a huge new amount of money for UNT to make further improvements with?

and should I factor in that those student fees only can legally cover half of the cost of the stadium which means the expense of the other half still needs to be accounted for....or should I pretend that half will get paid for out of thin air or that Apogee covered 100% of that?

I think you should factor in the fact you communicate as well as Charlie Brown's teacher.

UNTFan23 · March 22, 2012

I think you should factor in the fact you communicate as well as Charlie Brown's teacher.

OH SNAP!

Edited March 22, 2012 by UNTFan23

GrandGreen · March 22, 2012

should I also factor in that Chuck said in his report that the vast majority of the new student fee money would be eaten up be servicing the debt on the new stadium or should I pretend as though that money represents a huge new amount of money for UNT to make further improvements with?

and should I factor in that those student fees only can legally cover half of the cost of the stadium which means the expense of the other half still needs to be accounted for....or should I pretend that half will get paid for out of thin air or that Apogee covered 100% of that?

Obsession - the domination of one's thoughts or feelings by a persistent idea, image, desire, etc.

What has anything in your reply got to do with what you are replying to? Number one, debt service cost are not part of operating expenses and if you know what the full effect of the student fees are you are definitely on the inside which I somehow doubt. If you have read the public published documentation of the bill approving the student fees, you would know that it is far from clear what the limitations of the fees are. It is obviously not just restricted to the payment of the stadium bonds. While it is restricted from paying more than half of the stadium costs, there is no way to really monitor those uses. The amount of the fee can also be unilaterally raised by the BOR by small increments until it is subject to state allowed maximum.

The truth is that every school you listed as enormous cost issues to contend with if they hope to ever compete with the real "haves" of college athletics. NT will be better off than some, worse than others; but in general should fit in well in terms of finances with the current members of the alliance.

EAGLE83 · March 22, 2012

Have all 12th games at one site.At Jerry world.

TIgreen01 · March 22, 2012

http://www.bizjournals.com/memphis/news/2012/02/08/how-much-does-your-university-spend-on.html

the above is for the 2010-2011 athletics budget year....state fiscal budgets in Texas usually end at the end of August and the UNT athletics fee did not kick in until fall of 2011....the report above does not list a time period of actual months and since athletics seasons do not match up to semesters in exact dates or with fiscal years there is some ambiguity

but here are the numbers from that report

University of Nevada-Las Vegas Mountain West NV $56,027,699 $3,806,508 $6,745,418 $56,027,699

University of Central Florida Conference USA FL $37,821,564 $3,073,522 $12,706,791 $37,821,564

East Carolina University Conference USA NC $30,999,715 $2,150,891 $8,644,561 $32,558,927

University of Hawaii WAC HI $31,151,191 $2,032,468 $8,860,417 $31,607,695

Tulane University Conference USA LA $24,626,024 $2,012,935 $7,448,332 $30,200,024

Rice University Conference USA TX $29,750,082 $3,678,909 $12,261,854 $29,750,082

University of New Mexico Mountain West NM $29,261,501 $3,825,760 $6,679,522 $29,261,501

Fresno State WAC CA $26,966,469 $1,768,355 $7,040,523 $29,254,566

University of Wyoming Mountain West WY $27,800,440 $2,670,401 $5,770,034 $27,800,440

Colorado State University Mountain West CO $24,520,840 $2,342,597 $7,744,375 $26,757,801

University of Alabama at Birmingham Conference USA AL $25,076,684 $2,732,944 $6,625,462 $25,103,99

University of Texas at El Paso Conference USA TX $24,325,260 $3,600,201 $8,033,088 $24,359,091

Marshall University Conference USA WV $23,392,087 $2,483,894 $6,324,868 $24,690,027

University of North Texas Sun Belt TX $22,417,616 $1,863,022 $6,824,909 $22,417,616

University of Southern Mississippi Conference USA MS $20,440,121 $1,806,789 $6,404,547 $20,440,121

University of Nevada-Reno WAC NV $20,966,594 $1,889,776 $5,764,438 $20,966,594

So, taking Central Florida (they will not be in the new Alliance, but the Big East) out of that list of teams puts us at 11th in overall budget. But, sort it by football budget (most important, impo) and we're 9th. Also, this is for the 2010-2011 academic year? I assume that this does not reflect the doubling of salaries for the football staff? Add $1 million to our total there and we jump to 5th in that grouping of teams.

Lets go further, and compare UNT to the other schools being mentioned for Alliance expansion:

New Mexico State University WAC $22,188,581 $2,281,193 $5,492,439 $22,188,581

Utah State University WAC $19,700,479 $2,662,983 $5,269,615 $19,700,479

San Jose State University WAC $19,650,451 $1,123,472 $5,980,574 $19,650,451

University of Idaho WAC $16,532,841 $1,521,464 $5,490,410 $16,764,035

Louisiana Tech University WAC $15,389,354 $1,506,550 $5,218,344 $15,400,63

Florida Atlantic Sun Belt $15,604,005 $1,341,372 $5,256,458 $18,172,267

Florida International Sun BeltFL $24,606,140 $1,907,148 $7,224,803 $24,606,140

Western Kentucky Sun Belt $22,269,484 $2,463,934 $5,103,326 $22,269,484

Middle Tennessee Sun Belt $21,072,833 $1,546,744 $7,244,795 $23,869,784

South Alabama Sun Belt $15,805,284 $1,312,333 $5,963,648 $15,805,284

Texas at San Antonio Southland $14,475,118 $1,388,689 $14,475,118

Of this bunch, and with 2010-2011 numbers, only FIU has a total budget larger than UNT, and only FIU and MTSU spent more on football operations. None of the WAC teams are close to UNT, FIU, or MTSU.

So, to sum up, UNT lands somewhere in the middle of the current Alliance teams in terms of total budget, top half (though likely top 25% with 2011-2012 numbers) in football budget, and is either #1 or #2 of all the teams being looked at for expansion by the league.

Even if you throw out all other considerations (DFW market, new stadium + other new facilities, etc) UNT has a strong case for inclusion.

Kind of an aside, but I think one look at these numbers helps clear up why we keep hearing rumors about adding FIU instead of FAU. FAU's total budget is one of the lowest in the Sun Belt.

Edited March 22, 2012 by TIgreen01

UNTLifer · March 22, 2012

should I also factor in that Chuck said in his report that the vast majority of the new student fee money would be eaten up be servicing the debt on the new stadium or should I pretend as though that money represents a huge new amount of money for UNT to make further improvements with?

and should I factor in that those student fees only can legally cover half of the cost of the stadium which means the expense of the other half still needs to be accounted for....or should I pretend that half will get paid for out of thin air or that Apogee covered 100% of that?

Thanks Chuck. I like to smear peanut butter in my armpits and ride my unicycle around my house while wearing a sun bonnet and bermuda shorts, Chuck.

Is that the Chuck you are referencing?

VideoEagle · March 22, 2012

Brevity

1. shortness of time or duration; briefness: the brevity of human life.
2. the quality of expressing much in few words; terseness: Brevity is the soul of wit.

Brevity is a communication skill, not a way of sugar coating.

You fed the troll. Don't feed the trolls and they go way.

forevereagle · March 22, 2012

You fed the troll. Don't feed the trolls and they go way.

This troll has been removed several times and keeps coming back, fed or not.

All About UNT · March 22, 2012

This troll has been removed several times and keeps coming back, fed or not.

UNTexas · March 22, 2012

Perfect

GrandGreen · March 22, 2012

Perfect

I got a feeling that he would never never wear green and he can give you at least 12 pages on why Green is an inferior color.

UNTexas · March 22, 2012

I got a feeling that he would never never wear green and he can give you at least 12 pages on why Green is an inferior color.

You are absolutely correct on all points. Near perfect would have been appropriate. Green is truly a bad color and he should have been in his skid marked stained tighty whities in his mom's basement eating cheetos while raging himself to sleep for being picked after the fat girl for dodgeball fourth grade gym class.

UNTLifer · March 23, 2012

Well, at least he's wearing a green shirt, although it is the old shade.

cwb · March 23, 2012

Speaking of realignment, when will Puerto Rico finally get an official invite from the Union? They have a good baseball program and a market much larger than Nebraska or South Dakota.