I think this about sums it up

[emmitt01]

With the looming coaching hire on the hilltop I've been giving some thought to how they might fare in the Big East (mainly because I live close to SMU and want to see their opponents, not them...a sentiment I'm sure is shared by most who will go to Moody next season). I've always thought, and the piece linked below shares my sentiments, that SMU is in Dallas but will never really be a part of Dallas. Culturally the pink polo crowd just isn't like the city that surrounds them. Aside from the shot at NT this blog entry is spot on.

http://highschoolsportsblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2012/03/by-the-time-recently-ousted-smu-coach-ma.html

[dahbeed]

are the entry standards at smu any tougher than vandy?

[filmerj]

I remember reading somewhere, wish I could recall where and find a link, that June Jones had the school lower the academic standards so he could recruit better footballers.

[emmitt01]

are the entry standards at smu any tougher than vandy?

No. SMU likes to use their admissions standards as the shield when they don't succeed. It's always convenient to say "we would win but the good players couldn't get admitted to our school" or "your success isn't the same as our success because we have to deal with our Harvard like admissions standards." In truth they're simply irrelevant and arrogant about it.

[GrayEagle]

are the entry standards at smu any tougher than vandy?

No, but very few are. The 50 percentile of SAT scores of incoming freshmen show that Vanderbilt grades were 205 points higher than those at SMU. I also believe that athletes are cut a little slack compared to the rest of the student body.

One reason that SMU is not heavily embraced by the Dallas community is that it is the only major university in Texas whose student majority is from other states. In addition to that 40% of their enrollment is graduate students, resulting in far less focus on athletics.

[Roadruner]

No. SMU likes to use their admissions standards as the shield when they don't succeed. It's always convenient to say "we would win but the good players couldn't get admitted to our school" or "your success isn't the same as our success because we have to deal with our Harvard like admissions standards." In truth they're simply irrelevant and arrogant about it.

UNT has some of the highest admission standards in the State

– if anyone from SMU is using that worn out excuse for failure you can count on it being total Big Time BS

– I mean the toilet clogging, water line busting, gaseous kind of Big Time BS.

[NM Green]

They also don't connect with Dallas because of the cash versus trash mentality. They love to tell everyone just how nice of a boss they will be while they are cleaning, picking up trash, flipping burgers...I remember moving to the Metroplex in the 80's and connecting with the Mustang Mania fever. That was fun. But in the back of my head I always wondered if they truly liked Mexican people. Now Dallas in the 80's was a very different place than even the 90's and today. However, right or wrong I just have not seen SMU truly be successful at reaching out and welcoming people of other cultures. It would take a massive undertaking by their culture and their culture seems to be one of "Come to us. We can be friends." Look at how hard the Mavericks work at inclusion of different cultures, truly getting people of all walks of life to love the Mavs. Hispanic cultural festivals, World feasts, Community Day...allf of those efforts are executed well by professional sports teams. We are lucky to have a nice diverse population that makes people of all walks of life immediately feel welcome at UNT.

It will be fun seeing Providence, Pittsburg, UCONN, Louisville, San Diego State and Notre Dame come to Moody. However, it will be tough to build with that arena and natural reputation. Not too mention it is going to be awesome watching the Lobos howl in Denton (Everyone's a Lobo Woof Woof Woof - their cheer, seriously). Seeing the Running Rebels power into Denton with their Tomahawk REBELS chant. See the Miner pick axe rear its head and see throngs of Air Force fans fill the stands when the Academy visits. There will be some incredible options to watch outstanding programs multiple times a week during basketball season. Too bad The Alliance programs are struggling in the tournament, but New Mexico just might make their first Sweet 16 appearance yet.

GMG

[dahbeed]

they sound exactly like vandy fans.

my oldest son has had a pituitary tumor for 11 years. when discovered we could only go 2 places, jewish hospital in louieville or vanderbilt university hospital in nashville. 45 minutes closer made vandy a no brainer.

the hospital and all people there are wonderful. but the arrogance of their fanbase and students is not hidden. the 'you will work for me line' is used every time we play them.

when driving through campus you do notice the license plates on the beemers are from all over the country as well.

the reason i asked about the entrance standards was that vandy traditionally does have good basketball teams. harder to recruit 85 braniacs than 13 so the weak football is understood.

but stallings seems to bring in good sec level talent every year. stallings is very arrogant. when we beat them at bridgestone arena a couple years ago in nashville i listened to his postgame show and he basically said everything bounced right for us and wrong for them.

we're not really a rival to them as we don't play them often enough. now that we have 'the hopper' on board as head coach i'd love to see us get a series going with them.

right now would be a great time for unt to get a series with smu but i wouldn't look for that to happen. they'll use the conference games too tough excuse and nothing to gain, everything to lose mantra.

Edited March 17, 2012 by dahbeed

[emmitt01]

they'll use the conference games too tough excuse and nothing to gain, everything to lose mantra.

It's like Vandy and SMU read from the same tired script.

[CMJ]

It's like Vandy and SMU read from the same tired script.

To be fair, more than a few power conferences use that excuse against 'middies' all the time. Doesn't make it cool, but it's not unusual either.

[dahbeed]

To be fair, more than a few power conferences use that excuse against 'middies' all the time. Doesn't make it cool, but it's not unusual either.

absolutely.

and to act like we never use it is hypocritical.

if ray hopper said tomorrow he was signing a 4 year home and home with ut-martin our fans would be apopleptic.

i get it. but i don't have to like it.

i get that mike patton has a great voice and hair and i don't .......but i don't like it.

[eulessismore]

With the looming coaching hire on the hilltop I've been giving some thought to how they might fare in the Big East (mainly because I live close to SMU and want to see their opponents, not them...a sentiment I'm sure is shared by most who will go to Moody next season). I've always thought, and the piece linked below shares my sentiments, that SMU is in Dallas but will never really be a part of Dallas. Culturally the pink polo crowd just isn't like the city that surrounds them. Aside from the shot at NT this blog entry is spot on.

http://highschoolspo...u-coach-ma.html

So many people don't seem to get that SMU will never be part of Dallas because its located in University Park. I guess that mistaken belief does give them the best of both worlds; to never support anything in Dallas, but expect to be supported by Dallas. Oh, nearly forgot, June Jones inner city ministry. Is that in inner University Park, to the unfortunates along Turtle Creek?

[GreenBat]

BtrAftrDrk 1:04 PM on 3/14/2012

SMU really has no connection to Dallas period!

They are content sitting there on their own little island waiting to star in their own movie version of "The Help!"

This says all that needs to be said about SMU!

[Comet7745]

UNT has some of the highest admission standards in the State

Not really, the following have higher standards:

Rice (21%)

UT (47%)

Baylor (47%)

UTD (49%)

TCU (52%)

SMU (59%)

UNT (65%)

Though UNT does seem to be noticeably ahead of Texas Tech, UTA, UTSA, Texas State, UTEP, Houston, etc.

[GL2Greatness]

Not really, the following have higher standards:

Rice (21%)

UT (47%)

Baylor (47%)

UTD (49%)

TCU (52%)

SMU (59%)

UNT (65%)

Though UNT does seem to be noticeably ahead of Texas Tech, UTA, UTSA, Texas State, UTEP, Houston, etc.

this is bogus data

the % of students accepted is not a reflection of the admissions standards nor is it a reflection of the students that were admitted

it is only a reflection of the total number of students that applied (which is completely out of the control of the university) VS how many of that total that were accepted.....and in the case of public universities that have guaranteed admissions standards who they accept is only in their control as far as how those that apply are qualified in relation to the guaranteed admissions

at private schools where they limit the total number of incoming freshman because they do not get state funding based on enrollment the % accepted is only a slightly better indicator of overall freshman class admitted

if a school has 100 students apply and 100% of those students have very high metrics like a 1350 on the SAT and a 28 on the ACT) and they are all admitted that university would have a 100% acceptance rate

if a university had 1000 students apply and the standard for GUARANTEED admissions was a 1000 on the SAT and a 22 on the ACT) and only 100 out of those 1000 students that applied had those metrics that school would have a 10% acceptance rate......yet the school with the 100% acceptance rate would still have a freshman class with much higher metrics

the % accepted is a completely and totally meaningless metric and it is totally out of control of a public university in Texas because public universities in Texas have published guaranteed admissions standards......and it is still a bogus and totally meaningless metric for private schools because the number of applicants and the preparedness of the students applying is out of control of that university.....anyone can apply.....that does not mean they are qualified to be admitted

and at a state school in Texas all that apply and meet the guaranteed admissions standards are admitted.....there is no super top secret further screening after that....you either meet the guaranteed admissions standards or not...if you meet them you are in....period

the metrics for admissions in Texas public universities are as follows

UT Austin

TAMU

UTD

TTU

UH

UNT

TxState

UTA

and on from there

if you want to use acceptance % as a metric of quality of freshman class then you would need to accept that Texas Southern, Hardin Simmons, Southwestern Assemblies of God, UMHB, Houston Baptist, UH-Victoria, Prairie View, Dallas Baptist, Paul Quinn, Lamar, UT-Tyler, Our Lady of the Lake, Texas Wesleyan, East Texas Baptist, TAM-International, Abilene Christian, TCU, LeTourneau, McMurry, and Tarleton all have higher admissions standards than SMU because all of those universities have a lower acceptance rate than SMU

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/search.result/TX+y

all one needs to do is click on the acceptance rate metric to get it to list them from lowest to highest and one can see all those schools have a lwer acceptance rate than SMU does and some of them significantly lower

so again acceptance rate is a totally meaningless and totally useless metric that has no meaning at all relative to the actual admissions standards and a large portion of it is out of control of the university because who applies, the number of total applicants, and how qualified they are is out of control of the university

here are the GUARANTEED admissions criteria for several public schools in Texas

http://bealonghorn.utexas.edu/freshmen/admission/requirements

http://admissions.tamu.edu/freshmen/gettingin/waysAdmitted/academic.aspx

http://www.utdallas.edu/enroll/apply/fprocess.php?expand=321

http://www.admissions.ttu.edu/index.php/admission-financial_aid/first-time-freshmen/

http://www.uh.edu/admissions/apply/apply-freshman/admissions-criteria/index.php

http://www.unt.edu/admission/

http://www.admissions.txstate.edu/future/freshman/getting-accepted.html

http://www.uta.edu/admissions/freshmen/apply/requirements/hs-requirements.php

so with UT it is complex....if you are in the top 8% of HS class or higher you are probably in.....you will need to have SATs and/or ACTs for many individual degree programs

at TAMU you will need to have a top 10% in the HS class or perhaps a bit higher depending on the % of admitted based on HS class rank only...after that you need to be in the top quarter and have a 1300 SAT and or a 30 ACT

for UTD you need to be in the top 15% or you need a 1200 SAT or 26 ACT

for Texas Tech you need to be in the top 10% and after that for the next 11-25% you need an 1140 or a 25 and it gets higher for the next quarters

for UH it is top 15% and from 16% to 15% you need a 1000 or 21

for UNT it is top 10% and for 11-25% a 950 and on from there

so UNT is clearly not ahead of Texas Tech in GUARANTEED ADMISSIONS and they are much clsoer to TxState and UTA and they are really only ahead of UH in the 11-15% of high school class rank where UH has guaranteed admissions and UNT requires a 950 SAT and from 16% to 25% of HS class rank UH requires 50 points higher and then for the next class rank quarters UH requires higher SATs and ACTs than UNT

TxState is similar to UNT except 30 points lower for the SAT in the 11% to 25% and 40 points lower in the second quarter of HS class and the same on the 3rd quarter

UTA allows the top quarter in and then for the second quarter they are 1050 and 22 on the ACT so the same as UNT for SAT and one point lower for ACT and after that it is individual review

and there are no other super top secret metrics it says CLEARLY on all of those pages (except UT) what the GUARANTEED ADMISSIONS ARE

so UT Austin, TAMU College Station, UTD, TTU, and UH are all pretty much higher than UNT and TxState and UTA are much more similar to UNT than TTU or Austin or College Station and clearly from the US News link acceptance % is a meaningless and stupid metric to base actual acceptance criteria on

Edited March 17, 2012 by GL2Greatness

[Censored by Laurie]

this is bogus data

the % of students accepted is not a reflection of the admissions standards nor is it a reflection of the students that were admitted

it is only a reflection of the total number of students that applied (which is completely out of the control of the university) VS how many of that total that were accepted.....and in the case of public universities that have guaranteed admissions standards who they accept is only in their control as far as how those that apply are qualified in relation to the guaranteed admissions

at private schools where they limit the total number of incoming freshman because they do not get state funding based on enrollment the % accepted is only a slightly better indicator of overall freshman class admitted

if a school has 100 students apply and 100% of those students have very high metrics like a 1350 on the SAT and a 28 on the ACT) and they are all admitted that university would have a 100% acceptance rate

if a university had 1000 students apply and the standard for GUARANTEED admissions was a 1000 on the SAT and a 22 on the ACT) and only 100 out of those 1000 students that applied had those metrics that school would have a 10% acceptance rate......yet the school with the 100% acceptance rate would still have a freshman class with much higher metrics

the % accepted is a completely and totally meaningless metric and it is totally out of control of a public university in Texas because public universities in Texas have published guaranteed admissions standards......and it is still a bogus and totally meaningless metric for private schools because the number of applicants and the preparedness of the students applying is out of control of that university.....anyone can apply.....that does not mean they are qualified to be admitted

and at a state school in Texas all that apply and meet the guaranteed admissions standards are admitted.....there is no super top secret further screening after that....you either meet the guaranteed admissions standards or not...if you meet them you are in....period

the metrics for admissions in Texas public universities are as follows

UT Austin

TAMU

UTD

TTU

UH

UNT

TxState

UTA

and on from there

if you want to use acceptance % as a metric of quality of freshman class then you would need to accept that Texas Southern, Hardin Simmons, Southwestern Assemblies of God, UMHB, Houston Baptist, UH-Victoria, Prairie View, Dallas Baptist, Paul Quinn, Lamar, UT-Tyler, Our Lady of the Lake, Texas Wesleyan, East Texas Baptist, TAM-International, Abilene Christian, TCU, LeTourneau, McMurry, and Tarleton all have higher admissions standards than SMU because all of those universities have a lower acceptance rate than SMU

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/search.result/TX+y

all one needs to do is click on the acceptance rate metric to get it to list them from lowest to highest and one can see all those schools have a lwer acceptance rate than SMU does and some of them significantly lower

so again acceptance rate is a totally meaningless and totally useless metric that has no meaning at all relative to the actual admissions standards and a large portion of it is out of control of the university because who applies, the number of total applicants, and how qualified they are is out of control of the university

here are the GUARANTEED admissions criteria for several public schools in Texas

http://bealonghorn.utexas.edu/freshmen/admission/requirements

http://admissions.tamu.edu/freshmen/gettingin/waysAdmitted/academic.aspx

http://www.utdallas.edu/enroll/apply/fprocess.php?expand=321

http://www.admissions.ttu.edu/index.php/admission-financial_aid/first-time-freshmen/

http://www.uh.edu/admissions/apply/apply-freshman/admissions-criteria/index.php

http://www.unt.edu/admission/

http://www.admissions.txstate.edu/future/freshman/getting-accepted.html

http://www.uta.edu/admissions/freshmen/apply/requirements/hs-requirements.php

so with UT it is complex....if you are in the top 8% of HS class or higher you are probably in.....you will need to have SATs and/or ACTs for many individual degree programs

at TAMU you will need to have a top 10% in the HS class or perhaps a bit higher depending on the % of admitted based on HS class rank only...after that you need to be in the top quarter and have a 1300 SAT and or a 30 ACT

for UTD you need to be in the top 15% or you need a 1200 SAT or 26 ACT

for Texas Tech you need to be in the top 10% and after that for the next 11-25% you need an 1140 or a 25 and it gets higher for the next quarters

for UH it is top 15% and from 16% to 15% you need a 1000 or 21

for UNT it is top 10% and for 11-25% a 950 and on from there

so UNT is clearly not ahead of Texas Tech in GUARANTEED ADMISSIONS and they are much clsoer to TxState and UTA and they are really only ahead of UH in the 11-15% of high school class rank where UH has guaranteed admissions and UNT requires a 950 SAT and from 16% to 25% of HS class rank UH requires 50 points higher and then for the next class rank quarters UH requires higher SATs and ACTs than UNT

TxState is similar to UNT except 30 points lower for the SAT in the 11% to 25% and 40 points lower in the second quarter of HS class and the same on the 3rd quarter

UTA allows the top quarter in and then for the second quarter they are 1050 and 22 on the ACT so the same as UNT for SAT and one point lower for ACT and after that it is individual review

and there are no other super top secret metrics it says CLEARLY on all of those pages (except UT) what the GUARANTEED ADMISSIONS ARE

so UT Austin, TAMU College Station, UTD, TTU, and UH are all pretty much higher than UNT and TxState and UTA are much more similar to UNT than TTU or Austin or College Station and clearly from the US News link acceptance % is a meaningless and stupid metric to base actual acceptance criteria on

I'm sorry...I missed that. Could you go over it again for me?

[GL2Greatness]

I'm sorry...I missed that. Could you go over it again for me?

UNT has lower admissions than TTU, UH, and UTD and admissions that are much more in line with UTA and TxState

and acceptance % is a meaningless metric to compare actual admissions metrics

thanks for offering me the opportunity to clarify that

[Censored by Laurie]

UNT has lower admissions than TTU, UH, and UTD and admissions that are much more in line with UTA and TxState

and acceptance % is a meaningless metric to compare actual admissions metrics

thanks for offering me the opportunity to clarify that

Still too long...the words-to-no-one-gives-a-shit ratio is still in the red.

[emmitt01]

So you agree that Dallas kids can't relate to SMU? Yeah, me too.

this is bogus data

the % of students accepted is not a reflection of the admissions standards nor is it a reflection of the students that were admitted

it is only a reflection of the total number of students that applied (which is completely out of the control of the university) VS how many of that total that were accepted.....and in the case of public universities that have guaranteed admissions standards who they accept is only in their control as far as how those that apply are qualified in relation to the guaranteed admissions

at private schools where they limit the total number of incoming freshman because they do not get state funding based on enrollment the % accepted is only a slightly better indicator of overall freshman class admitted

if a school has 100 students apply and 100% of those students have very high metrics like a 1350 on the SAT and a 28 on the ACT) and they are all admitted that university would have a 100% acceptance rate

if a university had 1000 students apply and the standard for GUARANTEED admissions was a 1000 on the SAT and a 22 on the ACT) and only 100 out of those 1000 students that applied had those metrics that school would have a 10% acceptance rate......yet the school with the 100% acceptance rate would still have a freshman class with much higher metrics

the % accepted is a completely and totally meaningless metric and it is totally out of control of a public university in Texas because public universities in Texas have published guaranteed admissions standards......and it is still a bogus and totally meaningless metric for private schools because the number of applicants and the preparedness of the students applying is out of control of that university.....anyone can apply.....that does not mean they are qualified to be admitted

and at a state school in Texas all that apply and meet the guaranteed admissions standards are admitted.....there is no super top secret further screening after that....you either meet the guaranteed admissions standards or not...if you meet them you are in....period

the metrics for admissions in Texas public universities are as follows

UT Austin

TAMU

UTD

TTU

UH

UNT

TxState

UTA

and on from there

if you want to use acceptance % as a metric of quality of freshman class then you would need to accept that Texas Southern, Hardin Simmons, Southwestern Assemblies of God, UMHB, Houston Baptist, UH-Victoria, Prairie View, Dallas Baptist, Paul Quinn, Lamar, UT-Tyler, Our Lady of the Lake, Texas Wesleyan, East Texas Baptist, TAM-International, Abilene Christian, TCU, LeTourneau, McMurry, and Tarleton all have higher admissions standards than SMU because all of those universities have a lower acceptance rate than SMU

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/search.result/TX+y

all one needs to do is click on the acceptance rate metric to get it to list them from lowest to highest and one can see all those schools have a lwer acceptance rate than SMU does and some of them significantly lower

so again acceptance rate is a totally meaningless and totally useless metric that has no meaning at all relative to the actual admissions standards and a large portion of it is out of control of the university because who applies, the number of total applicants, and how qualified they are is out of control of the university

here are the GUARANTEED admissions criteria for several public schools in Texas

http://bealonghorn.utexas.edu/freshmen/admission/requirements

http://admissions.tamu.edu/freshmen/gettingin/waysAdmitted/academic.aspx

http://www.utdallas.edu/enroll/apply/fprocess.php?expand=321

http://www.admissions.ttu.edu/index.php/admission-financial_aid/first-time-freshmen/

http://www.uh.edu/admissions/apply/apply-freshman/admissions-criteria/index.php

http://www.unt.edu/admission/

http://www.admissions.txstate.edu/future/freshman/getting-accepted.html

http://www.uta.edu/admissions/freshmen/apply/requirements/hs-requirements.php

so with UT it is complex....if you are in the top 8% of HS class or higher you are probably in.....you will need to have SATs and/or ACTs for many individual degree programs

at TAMU you will need to have a top 10% in the HS class or perhaps a bit higher depending on the % of admitted based on HS class rank only...after that you need to be in the top quarter and have a 1300 SAT and or a 30 ACT

for UTD you need to be in the top 15% or you need a 1200 SAT or 26 ACT

for Texas Tech you need to be in the top 10% and after that for the next 11-25% you need an 1140 or a 25 and it gets higher for the next quarters

for UH it is top 15% and from 16% to 15% you need a 1000 or 21

for UNT it is top 10% and for 11-25% a 950 and on from there

so UNT is clearly not ahead of Texas Tech in GUARANTEED ADMISSIONS and they are much clsoer to TxState and UTA and they are really only ahead of UH in the 11-15% of high school class rank where UH has guaranteed admissions and UNT requires a 950 SAT and from 16% to 25% of HS class rank UH requires 50 points higher and then for the next class rank quarters UH requires higher SATs and ACTs than UNT

TxState is similar to UNT except 30 points lower for the SAT in the 11% to 25% and 40 points lower in the second quarter of HS class and the same on the 3rd quarter

UTA allows the top quarter in and then for the second quarter they are 1050 and 22 on the ACT so the same as UNT for SAT and one point lower for ACT and after that it is individual review

and there are no other super top secret metrics it says CLEARLY on all of those pages (except UT) what the GUARANTEED ADMISSIONS ARE

so UT Austin, TAMU College Station, UTD, TTU, and UH are all pretty much higher than UNT and TxState and UTA are much more similar to UNT than TTU or Austin or College Station and clearly from the US News link acceptance % is a meaningless and stupid metric to base actual acceptance criteria on