Is this racist or not ?

[UNT90]

In the end, it doesn't matter. The fact that he chased after the kid will keep him from being able to claim self defense.

I honestly find it kind of sickening to defend a guy who killed a kid in "self defense" when the most lethal weapon the kid had on him was a can of sweet tea. Especially when there would have been no altercation if the idiot wasn't chasing him for the crime of walking while black in the first place.

Again, your making assumptions that you don't know anything about. For all we know, Martin could have picked up a large rock, stick, or could have been on top of Zimmerman beating the crap out of him. Yes, you can beat someone to death. I'm not defending anyone. Not a one of us know what happened, what the witnesses say, what Zimmerman's account of events are, or how the altercation took place. The people who have all of that information and are under emmense pressure to arrest Zimmerman did not arrest him.

How do you know he was following Martin because he was black?? Another assumption that you make. It was obviously nighttime and raining outside. A kid unfamiliar in the neighborhood is hanging around outside. Even if he did follow him because he was black, that is not a criminal offense. Laws that apply to police officers don't apply to private citizens. Not syaing it's right, it just is.

So just for clarity, do you think the police are corrupt or incompetent? The State has reviewed the case (whatever Florida's equivelent of the Texas Rangers are) and have yet to arrest. Are they in on the conspiracy, also? Do they also not know what they are doing? There is still the possibility of arrest. Thorough investigations take time.

It's real easy to pass judgement based on media accounts of events, except that the media rarely has the facts straight. Without the context of the witness interviews, the 911 calls are pretty worthless (who was on top of who? Who was screaming for help?)

I seriously hope you never find yourself accused where the police just do what the media demands them to do. But, then again, us UNT grads never have that problem.

Just Duke Lacross players.

Patience.

Edited March 20, 2012 by UNT90

[UNTFan23]

Again, your making assumptions that you don't know anything about. For all we know, Martin could have picked up a large rock, stick, or could have been on top of Zimmerman beating the crap out of him. Yes, you can beat someone to death. I'm not defending anyone. Not a one of us know what happened, what the witnesses say, what Zimmerman's account of events are, or how the altercation took place. The people who have all of that information and are under emmense pressure to arrest Zimmerman did not arrest him.

How do you know he was following Martin because he was black?? Another assumption that you make. It was obviously nighttime and raining outside. A kid unfamiliar in the neighborhood is hanging around outside. Even if he did follow him because he was black, that is not a criminal offense. Laws that apply to police officers don't apply to private citizens. Not syaing it's right, it just is.

So just for clarity, do you think the police are corrupt or incompetent? The State has reviewed the case (whatever Florida's equivelent of the Texas Rangers are) and have yet to arrest. Are they in on the conspiracy, also? Do they also not know what they are doing? There is still the possibility of arrest. Thorough investigations take time.

It's real easy to pass judgement based on media accounts of events, except that the media rarely has the facts straight. Without the context of the witness interviews, the 911 calls are pretty worthless (who was on top of who? Who was screaming for help?)

I seriously hope you never find yourself accused where the police just do what the media demands them to do. But, then again, us UNT grads never have that problem.

Just Duke Lacross players.

Patience.

There was a case in the past where someone was found guilty in a civil case dealing with a wrongful death after being acquitted on criminal (murder) charges. Zimmerman could still end up in court. Civil law actually requires less to be found guilty on than Criminal law.

[UNT90]

Florida Self Defense law:

Use of force in defense of person.—A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other's imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:

(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or (2) Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s. 776.013.

Section 776.013 states that you can shoot someone dead for breaking into your house or car without any threat to your person. See someone breaking into your car, just kill them and you are justified.

If you find a definition of great bodily harm in Florida law, please post it. I looked and couldn't find one. There are court decisions which address it as injuries more than would be sustained in a simple assault. But, you have to remember, all that is required under Florida law is a reasonable belief that great bodily injury was immenent, not that great bodily injury occurred. Again, we don't have the facts to make that judgement. The police should, and they haven't made an arrest.

[UNT90]

There was a case in the past where someone was found guilty in a civil case dealing with a wrongful death after being acquitted on criminal (murder) charges. Zimmerman could still end up in court. Civil law actually requires less to be found guilty on than Criminal law.

No doubt his family may win a huge settlement in civil court. But we are talking apples and oranges.

No matter what happens in the criminal case, it's pretty apparent from the lawyer spokespersons of the Martin family that multiple civil actions will be filed.

[ColoradoEagle]

Again, your making assumptions that you don't know anything about. For all we know, Martin could have picked up a large rock, stick, or could have been on top of Zimmerman beating the crap out of him. Yes, you can beat someone to death.

I think that kind of thing would have been recorded at the crime scene, don't you? If not, then it goes to your point about the police being incompetent.

How do you know he was following Martin because he was black?? Another assumption that you make. It was obviously nighttime and raining outside.

Zimmerman identified Martin in the 911 call as black. You can be blind and say that it had nothing to do with the pursuit, but I'm not.

A kid unfamiliar in the neighborhood is hanging around outside.

He was walking back to his relatives' home after buying a snack.

Laws that apply to police officers don't apply to private citizens. Not syaing it's right, it just is.

You're taking this hard of a stance on this topic and you don't even know the full story? Zimmerman is neighborhood watch, ie. not a cop. He's a 'concerned citizen'.

So just for clarity, do you think the police are corrupt or incompetent? The State has reviewed the case (whatever Florida's equivelent of the Texas Rangers are) and have yet to arrest. Are they in on the conspiracy, also?

Are you really making the case that the police are impervious to incompetence or bad case management? I'm thankful for the police and everything they do to keep people safe, but they're just as susceptible to inconsistent work, poor work, and mistakes as the rest of us.

It's real easy to pass judgement based on media accounts of events, except that the media rarely has the facts straight. Without the context of the witness interviews, the 911 calls are pretty worthless (who was on top of who? Who was screaming for help?)

I don't really care about the media spin. The facts of the story are 1) the kid was walking home from the store with Skittles and sweet tea. 2) Zimmerman called 911 and they told him to not pursue Martin. 3) He pursued Martin. 4) Martin ended up dead. If he'd just let the police do their job, Martin would probably still be alive.

Maybe so it's easier for you to imagine, put yourself in his shoes. I'm assuming you're white. What would you think if you were 17 and being followed by a car at night in a black neighborhood where you probably couldn't see any kind of car markings or anything since it's dark and raining. You start to run because you're scared and some guy jumps out of the car and starts chasing you. He catches up to you, and you a) fight for your life, or b ) sit down and talk rationally about why he's chasing you at night through the rain when you've done nothing wrong. I would sure as shit go with option A myself.

So long as you're citing Florida law, this is the little nugget that's gonna blow out his self defense claim:

Florida Statute § 776.041 (2012), which states that the initial aggressor is precluded from asserting self-defense where he is the individual who provoked the use of force contemporaneously to the actions of the victim to which the defendant claims self-defense.

Edited March 20, 2012 by ColoradoEagle

[UNT90]

I think that kind of thing would have been recorded at the crime scene, don't you? If not, then it goes to your point about the police being incompetent.

Zimmerman identified Martin in the 911 call as black. You can be blind and say that it had nothing to do with the pursuit, but I'm not.

Skin color is a descriptor. If he hadn't identified Martin's race, the dispatcher would have asked him. Good to know you are right inside Zimmerman's head.

He was walking back to his relatives' home after buying a snack.

Jeez, man. Facts please. He was walking back to his father's Fiiancee's house. This was not Martin's neighborhood.

You're taking this hard of a stance on this topic and you don't even know the full story? Zimmerman is neighborhood watch, ie. not a cop. He's a 'concerned citizen'.

I'm not the one taking a hard stance. I'm the one calling for patience because the public does not have all the facts. And we agree, Zimmerman is not a cop, which mean "profiling" laws do not apply to him. You may not like that, but that is the law.

Are you really making the case that the police are impervious to incompetence or bad case management? I'm thankful for the police and everything they do to keep people safe, but they're just as susceptible to inconsistent work, poor work, and mistakes as the rest of us.

I absolutely agree with you that police can and have mismanaged cases. This case, though, certainly has the involvement of the DA's Office, the Florida BI (state police detectives), and now the USAG's office. I promise you that the police work done on this case has already been reviewed multiple times.

I don't really care about the media spin. The facts of the story are 1) the kid was walking home from the store with Skittles and sweet tea. 2) Zimmerman called 911 and they told him to not pursue Martin. 3) He pursued Martin. 4) Martin ended up dead. If he'd just let the police do their job, Martin would probably still be alive.

Problem is your "facts" don't meet the elements of a criminal offense. Pesky little details.

Maybe so it's easier for you to imagine, put yourself in his shoes. I'm assuming you're white. What would you think if you were 17 and being followed by a car at night in a black neighborhood where you probably couldn't see any kind of car markings or anything since it's dark and raining. You start to run because you're scared and some guy jumps out of the car and starts chasing you. He catches up to you, and you a) fight for your life, or b ) sit down and talk rationally about why he's chasing you at night through the rain when you've done nothing wrong. I would sure as shit go with option A myself.

Because you know this is exactly what happened, right? How do you know what happened when the confrontation occurred? See, because that pesky little detail is what decides whether this is a crime ro just terrible judgement by an overagressive wanna be cop that led to a tragc conclusion.

So long as you're citing Florida law, this is the little nugget that's gonna blow out his self defense claim:

Maybe your right. Again, patience.

[Green P1]

Racisim? If the roles were reversed and Zimmerman was lying dead from a gunshot to the chest, does anyone believe Martin would be walking around free of charges?

Edited March 20, 2012 by Green P1

[Cr1028]

Joe Horn on steroids. From the vault.

Edited March 20, 2012 by Cr1028

[Coffee and TV]

At the 2:20-2:23 mark you can hear Zimmerman say "effing coons".

Yeah, his story is totally believable....

[ColoradoEagle]

At the 2:20-2:23 mark you can hear Zimmerman say "effing coons".

Yeah, his story is totally believable....

Hey, he might not be racist. Wait until all the facts are in.

[meangreendork]

"Zimmerman said he had stepped out of his truck to check the name of the street he was on when Trayvon attacked him from behind as he walked back to his truck, police said. He said he feared for his life and fired the semiautomatic handgun he was licensed to carry because he feared for his life."

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/19/2703029/us-department-of-justice-fbi-and.html#disqus_thread#storylink=cpy#storylink=cpy

This doesn't match the information from 911 tapes, and it doesn't match what was said by the girl Martin was on the phone with just before he was shot.

It doesn't help that according to the national neighborhood watch, Zimmerman wasn't ever supposed to pursue on foot nor carry a weapon.

[UNT90]

Hey, he might not be racist. Wait until all the facts are in.

Your rigtt. Let's execute him now. Scree all these pesky little laws, damnit.

[ColoradoEagle]

Your rigtt. Let's execute him now. Scree all these pesky little laws, damnit.

Who's talking about executing? I'm talking about there being way more than enough evidence to make an arrest.

[Coffee and TV]

Your rigtt. Let's execute him now. Scree all these pesky little laws, damnit.

Moving the goalposts as I expected. It was fairly evident from the beginning that this was a racially motivated, completely unnecessary killing, and the police did a crummy job investigating. But you kept begging for people not to jump to conclusions. Now that more facts are out and its pretty apparent that it wasn't self-defense, you label everyone else as an angry mob who simply wants to dish out vigilante justice.

[meangreendork]

Moving the goalposts as I expected. It was fairly evident from the beginning that this was a racially motivated, completely unnecessary killing, and the police did a crummy job investigating. But you kept begging for people not to jump to conclusions. Now that more facts are out and its pretty apparent that it wasn't self-defense, you label everyone else as an angry mob who simply wants to dish out vigilante justice.

Makes us all sound like a bunch of George Zimmermans, doesn't it?

Oh wait, none of us got out of our cars to chase some black kid down, despite being told not to, got into a fight with him, got our asses kicked, and then wussed out by shooting him. We also never claimed self-defense, and then later said that we stopped on a street to check where we were, when our phone calls mentioned following the black kid on foot.

[Green P1]

Your rigtt. Let's execute him now. Scree all these pesky little laws, damnit.

Quit trying to Henry Fonda all of us... Dirty Liberal.

[UNT90]

Quit trying to Henry Fonda all of us... Dirty Liberal.

How dare you!

But seriously, Florida operates on a grand jury system similiar to Texas. This case will be presented directly to the grand jury in a couple of weeks. If they decide to indict, Zimmerman will be arrested.

I'm sure that's just not good enough for some of you guys.

[UNT90]

Makes us all sound like a bunch of George Zimmermans, doesn't it?

Ya, it kinda does.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

---Have no idea if it is racist or not ... BUT a 200+ pound man followed a 17 year old unarmed kid weighing about 145 pounds and wound up shooting him. I doubt the kid attacked him but if he had not been following the kid [ which supposedly he wasn't supposed to do] there would have never been a shooting. No doubt the kid was a bit scared... I would have been at that age with a very large man following me (about 70 lbs larger or 50% larger)... Also that did not seem to be any legit reason to follow him since he had done nothing. Personally I think he was some gun happy guy that just wanted to play cop and was just looking for trouble and an opportunity to be "the man". Why would any reasonable kid attack someone that much larger especially unarmed..... makes no sense.

Edited March 22, 2012 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[Rudy]

---Have no idea if it is racist or not ... BUT a 200+ pound man followed a 17 year old unarmed kid weighing about 145 pounds and wound up shooting him. I doubt the kid attacked him but if he had not been following the kid [ which supposedly he wasn't supposed to do] there would have never been a shooting. No doubt the kid was a bit scared... I would have been at that age with a very large man following me (about 70 lbs larger or 50% larger)... Also that did not seem to be any legit reason to follow him since he had done nothing. Personally I think he was some gun happy guy that just wanted to play cop and was just looking for trouble and an opportunity to be "the man". Why would any reasonable kid attack someone that much larger especially unarmed..... makes no sense.

I will agree that he probably wanted to play cop. Much like "law students", alot of criminal justice students think they know the law. Hell, much most citizens think they know how to play police just because of CSI and the First 48. However, at the moment this happened, how does Zimmerman know that the person he is following isn't an experienced martial artist? It is possible that Martin did not know Zimmerman had a gun.

The point is that we were not there and we are not conducting the investigation.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

I will agree that he probably wanted to play cop. Much like "law students", alot of criminal justice students think they know the law. Hell, much most citizens think they know how to play police just because of CSI and the First 48. However, at the moment this happened, how does Zimmerman know that the person he is following isn't an experienced martial artist? It is possible that Martin did not know Zimmerman had a gun.

The point is that we were not there and we are not conducting the investigation.

--Neither knew ..but he was told to not follow him and he was not supposed to be carrying a gun either in that position [citizen patrol ]. That is facts. So what if he didn't know Zimmerman had a gun, what 145 lb teen would attack a 200+ pound man?? Besides the kid was not chasing the man, it was the other way around, the kid wasn't looking for trouble.. Makes no sense.

Edited March 22, 2012 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[GreenBat]

Additional Information

[UNTflyer]

Racist? No, because minorities can't be racist.

Stupid? Yes.

Criminal? Looks like it.

[meangreendork]

Racist? No, because minorities can't be racist.

Stupid? Yes.

Criminal? Looks like it.

Minorities can't be racist? Bahaha, that's an awful joke.

[Rudy]

--Neither knew ..but he was told to not follow him and he was not supposed to be carrying a gun either in that position [citizen patrol ]. That is facts. So what if he didn't know Zimmerman had a gun, what 145 lb teen would attack a 200+ pound man?? Besides the kid was not chasing the man, it was the other way around, the kid wasn't looking for trouble.. Makes no sense.

I've seen people go after others twice their size. I call it an ego and thinking you are a bad ass. As to the gun, yeah, citizen patrol wasn't suuposed to be armed. But that is not a law. He had a right to carry that firearm. Florida is a stand your ground state. Which means Zimmerman did not have to retreat once Martin confronted him. NOW, yes, Zimmerman should not have put himself in that situation.

As for just arresting Zimmerman, once you have had yourself in the position to ruin someone's life by arresting and/or charging the for a crime, you will understand it is not just putting someone in handcuffs and putting them in the back of your squad car. You want to make sure you are absoulutely sure this is the right thing to do. One life was already ended, and several lives are shattered by the loss of Martin. Zimmerman will have to live with knowing he took a life for the rest of his. You want to make sure it is the correct thing to ruin another life by having them carry around an arrest and probably a conviction on their record the rest of their lives.

Edit: I just got halfway through the article that Greenbat posted. It has an obvious slant, but I wanted to point out a couple of things.

1) It was a gated community. There was ZERO need for a "community watch". Hire a UNIFORMED security guard. That way, Trayvon wouldn't have thought some psycho was following him. The only things community watches are good for is observing for criminal activity in UNGATED neighborhoods and giving retirees something to do.

2) Martin was wearing a black hoodie. I doubt it was that cool in Florida. I can see how to some that would be viewed as suspicious.

Edited March 23, 2012 by Rudy