Does JJ need to go to March Madness next season?

[Censored by Laurie]

We fire him for winning or finishing runner-up in the Sun Belt four or five times in the last six seasons, then what?

This, to me, is the clear and obvious point that anyone with a lick of rationale understands...and what the circle-jerk of pessimism that is the YAC board can't seem to wrap their heads around.

[dahbeed]

i can tell you this about johnny jones.

he's highly respected by the western fans that know their hoops. just like any board we have folks that call our conference the suck belt and don't have a clue about anyone not wearing a western jersey. myopic fans.

but those of us that follow COLLEGE HOOPS and not just western hoops....we like johnny jones. i can't imagine he's in any trouble at all with his bosses.

we have been very fortunate in the times that we knocked out the mean green. never a blowout as far back as i can remember.

i might be an idiot but i see improvement in hoops across the sun belt. and even if i didn't i say we (western and unt) leave 'em behind if they don't want to take it serious. and i love our football team.

these 2 recruiting classes should be a handful for somebody as early as next year but really troublesome for others their junior seasons.

[Green Lantern]

Johnny's taken this thing to 2 of our 3 NCAA tournament appearances in program history. He's had us on the precipice of two more these last two years. His job is in no way dependent upon an NCAA tournament appearance next year.

How quickly some folks forget how bad this program was. Hundreds of fans in the stands during those crappy years, contrasted to now where we had the best home attendance average since the late 70's when the Pit opened.

I get to watch competitive basketball at NT EVERY year now. That's something I'm still thankful for.

Edited March 16, 2012 by Green Lantern

[GrandGreen]

Why would anyone think that JJ's job is in any kind of jeopardy? He is a head coach and therefore is definitely subject to criticism that comes with the job. I was very disappointed with the results in 2010-2011 and to a much lesser extent the results in 2011-2012. If he has all the players coming back next year and doesn't greatly improve the conference record and rpi, then I again will be highly disappointed.

Jones has moved NT from usually awful to one of the best programs in the Belt, therefore in some's view; he is due unwavering support. Some think the same about Dickey, he took a program form nowhere to 4 straight Belt championships. There are a few detractors, but most realize that Dickey had to go. . I am not trying to compare Jones and Dickey, in my mind there is no comparison other than both revived semi-dead programs.

My point in coaching, it is all about what have you done lately. Jones has elevated the program to a level that many expect a lot more than we did a decade ago. If everyone stays on board, JJ will have undoubtedly assembled the most talent ever on a NT basketball team. It provides an opportunity for great things in NT basketball. Failure to capitalize on that opportunity would be horrible but even that is not going to get JJ fired. I think Jones has proven he is a good coach, the question is can he be a great one.

[EGL66]

Why would anyone think that JJ's job is in any kind of jeopardy? He is a head coach and therefore is definitely subject to criticism that comes with the job. I was very disappointed with the results in 2010-2011 and to a much lesser extent the results in 2011-2012. If he has all the players coming back next year and doesn't greatly improve the conference record and rpi, then I again will be highly disappointed.

Jones has moved NT from usually awful to one of the best programs in the Belt, therefore in some's view; he is due unwavering support. Some think the same about Dickey, he took a program form nowhere to 4 straight Belt championships. There are a few detractors, but most realize that Dickey had to go. . I am not trying to compare Jones and Dickey, in my mind there is no comparison other than both revived semi-dead programs.

My point in coaching, it is all about what have you done lately. Jones has elevated the program to a level that many expect a lot more than we did a decade ago. If everyone stays on board, JJ will have undoubtedly assembled the most talent ever on a NT basketball team. It provides an opportunity for great things in NT basketball. Failure to capitalize on that opportunity would be horrible but even that is not going to get JJ fired. I think Jones has proven he is a good coach, the question is can he be a great one.

I agree. Since he was somehow able to secure a 7 year contract extenstion without gaining a thing last year(no wins over a ranked team, no conference regular season championship and no post season play) with a team full of seniors in his 10th season, then he certainly won't have his feet held to the fire next year with the season resting on the shoulders of three sophomores.

Edited March 18, 2012 by EGL66

[FirefightnRick]

.and what the circle-jerk of pessimism that is the YAC board can't seem to wrap their heads around.

What I'll never understand is why you even care to read the other board at all?

Rick

[CMJ]

What I'll never understand is why you even care to read the other board at all?

Rick

Apparently the same reason you read this one Infidel. To get annoyed with how another side of the fan base feels about things.

[FirefightnRick]

Apparently the same reason you read this one Infidel. To get annoyed with how another side of the fan base feels about things.

Why would anyone want to do that to themselves with their free time?

Rick

[CMJ]

Why would anyone want to do that to themselves with their free time?

Rick

Do you not do it too?

[FirefightnRick]

Do you not do it too?

No, I agree with most of the opinions over here, including most in this thread. I don't think I would read a board whose majority of op's differed with mine to the point that they annoyed or upset me.

Rick

[golfingomez]

I'll say this...

How many of us came on this board after learning about CJ or JW and said 'we're done' or 'well, there's always next year'?

And yet JJ made this team play well at the right time and if it weren't for one player getting hotter than the sun on that particular night, the mean green would have been dancing...

JJ has built this program from the ground up.. And unless he turns in 3 straight losing seasons.... I see no reason to fire him

[Censored by Laurie]

No, I agree with most of the opinions over here, including most in this thread. I don't think I would read a board whose majority of op's differed with mine to the point that they annoyed or upset me.

Two things...

1. I think you're confusing "annoy" with "bemuse whilst amusing."

2. Limiting one's self to being associated with only like-minded individuals leads to very shallow and uninformed opinions. Dissent leads to questioning one's own thoughts and ideas...which in turn leads to knowledge.

I like knowledge...and as such, I like dissent. Since you and some ten other people decided you'd had to go create another board since your dissent wasn't receiving the reverence someone of your self-presumed stature deserved...ya...I go read your board. Typically with a wry smile and a shaking head.

[MeanGreenTexan]

I'll say this...

How many of us came on this board after learning about CJ or JW and said 'we're done' or 'well, there's always next year'?

And yet JJ made this team play well at the right time and if it weren't for one player getting hotter than the sun on that particular night, the mean green would have been dancing...

JJ has built this program from the ground up.. And unless he turns in 3 straight losing seasons.... I see no reason to fire him

Guilty.

Good Point.

[Green P1]

I'll say this...

How many of us came on this board after learning about CJ or JW and said 'we're done' or 'well, there's always next year'?

And yet JJ made this team play well at the right time and if it weren't for one player getting hotter than the sun on that particular night, the mean green would have been dancing...

JJ has built this program from the ground up.. And unless he turns in 3 straight losing seasons.... I see no reason to fire him

Meh.... You're giving credit where credit is due. Round these parts we like to give blame wherever we can shoehorn it in.

Goober.

[FirefightnRick]

Two things...

1. I think you're confusing "annoy" with "bemuse whilst amusing."

2. Limiting one's self to being associated with only like-minded individuals leads to very shallow and uninformed opinions. Dissent leads to questioning one's own thoughts and ideas...which in turn leads to knowledge.

I like knowledge...and as such, I like dissent. Since you and some ten other people decided you'd had to go create another board since your dissent wasn't receiving the reverence someone of your self-presumed stature deserved...ya...I go read your board. Typically with a wry smile and a shaking head.

Ok, but three more things.

1. I didn't first use "annoyed", CMJ did. I was just responding back to him.

2. Seems like a long winded explanation to simply say, "I wished the complainers would come back over here to play"? I could be wrong on that? I'm just guessing of course.

3. By the way, I may have missed it, but I don't believe there's another current thread anywhere else but here discussing ultimatums for our basketball coach? Knowledge tells me that is ironic.

Rick

Edited March 19, 2012 by FirefightnRick

[UNT90]

Talking about a message board on a message board.

Think I'll watch Idiocracy again.

[NT03]

Talking about a message board on a message board.

Think I'll watch Idiocracy again.

Frozen planet on discovery channel is currently on, I can't turn it off. Good stuff

[kalebschumann]

I'm not really sure what we're debating here.

JJ took a team that lost two of its top three players to the conference championship. He took a team that most people (myself included) were dead in the water.

We've made the conference championship two years in a row (and 4 times in the past 6 years).

As far as I can tell, we're complaining about the RPI of the teams that we play. We are saying that we should play teams with a higher RPI, so when we DO make the tourny, we have a shot of grabbing a 15 or 14 seed. JJ has proven that he can take his team to the tourny (or darn close). He's doing his job as far as I'm concerned. Now deciding what seed they get once they get in - to me that's something that has a lot more factors in it then how JJ coaches.

I'm fairly confident JJ is doing his job basically perfectly.

[GrandGreen]

I'm not really sure what we're debating here.

JJ took a team that lost two of its top three players to the conference championship. He took a team that most people (myself included) were dead in the water.

We've made the conference championship two years in a row (and 4 times in the past 6 years).

As far as I can tell, we're complaining about the RPI of the teams that we play. We are saying that we should play teams with a higher RPI, so when we DO make the tourny, we have a shot of grabbing a 15 or 14 seed. JJ has proven that he can take his team to the tourny (or darn close). He's doing his job as far as I'm concerned. Now deciding what seed they get once they get in - to me that's something that has a lot more factors in it then how JJ coaches.

I'm fairly confident JJ is doing his job basically perfectly.

Actually, JJ took teams to the tournament championship, NT was not close to a conference championship. You can argue in the Belt that the tournament is much more important. A rpi in the 190's is not going to get you many fans that think you are doing the impossible which is what doing your job perfectly would be. Also I don't think using the academic problems is an excuse for the lack of greater success is entirely valid. Who recruited those players and who had responsibility to see that they remained academically eligible? Sure the first and foremost responsibility lied with the players, and there is a staff of people supposed to be overseeing their academics. The issue with me is why did JJ not recognize that there were dire academic issues and if he did why did he keep playing Williams and Jones heavy minutes and not better preparing his team for their lost.

Any criticism of JJ is treated by some on this board has blasphemy and end of season tournament runs have been great but the facts are that the last two seasons have not been particularly stellar. In 2010-2011, a veteran team and overwhelming favorite in the Belt falls far short and last year team with the best recruiting class arguably in history goes 9-7 in the conference and is upstaged by another team full of newcomers, WKU in the tournament. I don't think JJ and squad had a bad year under the circumstances, but it was far from perfect.

I also wonder why you separate the rpi and tournament performance as they relate to coaching. The rpi is related more to the whole season, while tournament performance is related to achievements in the four days of the tournament, but both are a function of coaching,

As an aside, I never considered the query "does JJ need to go to March Madness" about his possible termination as some. To me it is about what does he have to do to move the program and his career forward.

Edited March 21, 2012 by GrandGreen

[kalebschumann]

Actually, JJ took teams to the tournament championship, NT was not close to a conference championship. You can argue in the Belt that the tournament is much more important. A rpi in the 190's is not going to get you many fans that think you are doing the impossible which is what doing your job perfectly would be. Also I don't think using the academic problems is an excuse for the lack of greater success is entirely valid. Who recruited those players and who had irresponsibility to see that they remained academically eligible? Sure the first and foremost responsibility lied with the players, and there is a staff of people supposed to be overseeing their academics. The issue with me is why did JJ not recognize that there were dire academic issues and if he did why did he keep playing Williams and Jones heavy minutes and not better preparing his team for their lost.

Any criticism of JJ is treated by some on this board has blasphemy and end of season tournament runs have been great but the facts are that the last two seasons have not been particularly stellar. In 2010-2011, a veteran team and overwhelming favorite in the Belt falls far short and last year team with the best recruiting class arguably in history goes 9-7 in the conference and is upstaged by another team full of newcomers, WKU in the tournament. I don't think JJ and squad had a bad year under the circumstances, but it was far from perfect.

I also wonder why you separate the rpi and tournament performance as they relate to coaching. The rpi is related more to the whole season, while tournament performance is related to achievements in the four days of the tournament, but both are a function of coaching,

As an aside, I never considered the query "does JJ need to go to March Madness" about his possible termination as some. To me it is about what does he have to do to move the program and his career forward.

1. You're right- I mispoke. But to me, conference regular season championship means not a whole lot to me. His record in the Sun Belt Tourny Speaks for itself- at least to me.

2. The coach doesn't pick our opponents. We always fair decently against the Big 12 teams that come to the Pit. I would just like us to play some teams with a higher RPI before we get into conference play. We can accomplish this by playing some of the larger conferences. We hardly ever tap the upper level BBall conferences.

I'll be happy with a winning season and a shot at the winning the conference tourny every year. JJ brings stability and consistent winning to the table. And I'll take that.

[KRAM1]

Sometimes one just has to wonder in amazement........some amazing stuff here folks. But, really, hasn't this thread pretty much seen better days? Like UNT90 said, when it turns to posting on a message board about posting on another message board, it's time to turn on the Animal Planet I think....Hall of fame worthy maybe?

[The Fan]

According to the Dallas Morning News the SMU people are looking at Coach Jones to replace Doh.

[kalebschumann]

According to the Dallas Morning News the SMU people are looking at Coach Jones to replace Doh.

Is there even the slightest chance that this could happen? I don't think so.

[The Fan]

Just saying what the DMN reported. The SMU people seems to like him.

[golfingomez]

smut wants everything UNT has... from its football commits to its basketball coach