Some feel good marijuana stories

[Coffee and TV]

It doesn't matter whether a state law passes. If there is already a Federal law in place, the Federal law will supersede it...hence, the immigration law examples.

The 10th Amendment only applies in areas of the law where the Federal government hasn't already promulgated laws.

And yet 22 states already have it decriminalized or laws that allow medical marijuana.

[BeanCounterGrad'03]

Federal say-so, from June 21, 2011...during the Obama administration:

https://www.federalregister.gov/articles/2011/07/08/2011-16994/denial-of-petition-to-initiate-proceedings-to-reschedule-marijuana#h-8

Ka-pow! The Feds once again deny a petition to even initiate proceedings to reschedule marijuana. What was my earlier post? Keep flying into that Federal window, potbirds!

See, what happens is, people who don't waste time smoking grass go into medical and scientific research fields, and...you know...make these reports that the government can actually use to form coherent national policy.

I know,I know. It's far less taxing to stand around with signs and protest. It's even far less taxing to get on the internet and whine. Far less taxing even than that is just sitting around getting stoned.

But, having an opinion, voicing it, and getting stoned are not the equivalent of medical and scientific research. Sorry. For all the faults of Federal government, at least they are still trusting in sober medical and scientific analysis. Even, yes, even during the Obama administration.

Gee, I wonder if a Romney or Santorum administration would be more weed friendly? Bwaahahahahaahahahaha!

Were you bullied by potheads as a child?

[Shuke-D]

I was gonna read all the posts in this thread and reply, but. . .

[rcade]

It doesn't matter whether a state law passes. If there is already a Federal law in place, the Federal law will supersede it...hence, the immigration law examples.

Federal laws *never* change in response to what states want. That's why the maximum speed limit is still 55.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

And yet 22 states already have it decriminalized or laws that allow medical marijuana.

It doesn't matter. Federal law still applies, so it is not "decriminalized." In every one of those states, people are still arrested on Federal drug charges in connection to marijuana.

Even the Ninth Circuit has written that medical marijuana in any given State does not mean growing, selling, or use of it, even for that purpose, gives anyone due process rights Federally.

Federally, those dreams went up in smoke in Gonzalez v. Raich.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Federal charges...

http://www.wgrz.com/news/article/157895/37/Mother-of-Olympic-Athlete-In-Court-on-Drug-Charges

In Cali, drugged driving fatalities have increased since 2006...

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/drug-use-rises-in-california-fatal-crashes-2012-02-28

In Cali, where "medical use" is legal, raids still occurring...with help of Cali officials as well...

http://www.examiner.com/solano-county-buzz-in-san-francisco/downtown-vallejo-pot-dispensary-shut-down-owner-arrested

But marijuana cultivation and possession remained illegal under federal law, and U.S. authorities frequently threatened to crack down on California dispensaries, which operated openly.

In fact, the Greenwell Cooperative at 616 Marin St. was only a half-block off downtown Vallejo's main street.

Nearly 800 marijuana plants were seized from two locations, Lt. Ken Weaver of the Vallejo Police Department told the newspaper.

Shotwell was charged with cultivating marijuana, possession of marijuana for sale, selling marijuana and operating a location that supplies marijuana, Weaver said.

Agents of the U.S. Drug Enforcement Agency, California's State Board of Equalization and Franchise Tax Board, Solano County narcotics task force and Vallejo police took part in the raid, the newspaper said.

How could that be? I mean, medical marijuana is legal in Cali, right?

Uh-huh. Right.

Keep flying, potbirds. That Federal window is still standing...even in Cali.

Here a nice family, some in Cali, arrested on Federal drug charges...yeah, marijuana. Even though it's been "decriminalized" there...six properties seized by the Feds in the "decriminalized" weed State of Cali...

http://newssun.suntimes.com/news/10662240-418/ten-face-federal-drug-charges.html

How can that be? I mean, medical marijuana is legal in Cali, right?

Uh-huh. Right.

Keep flying, potbirds. That Federal and State windows are still standing...even in Cali.

In "decriminalized" Massachusetts, Supreme Court says you can still face jail time...looks like it's in the cops hands to decide what your intended use was..."decriminalize" by voters...funny stuff...

http://dailyfreepress.com/2012/02/15/legislation-ups-consequences-for-pot-possession-under-ounce/

How can this be? I mean, the voters of Massachusetts approved decriminalization!

Uh-huh. Right. They did.

Keep flying, potbirds. The Federal and State windows are still standing...even in politically dark blue Massachusetts.

The law is the law. It's not legal. It's not going to be legal. Even in place where it's supposedly "decriminalized" and approved for "medical" use, people are still arrested for it daily. Daily.

Somewhere in Cali, some burner is being arrested even now for it. And, he or she is probably mumbling incoherently about their right to use it. Careful what you think you know about drug law...even in Cali...or Mass...or, any of those "decriminalized" States. Don't let the dopes at NORML lead you astray.

Decriminalized? Yeah, okay.

[rcade]

The law is the law. It's not legal. It's not going to be legal. Even in place where it's supposedly "decriminalized" and approved for "medical" use, people are still arrested for it daily. Daily.

Medical marijuana is legal under California law. Do you believe it's proper for the federal government to arrest companies that dispense medical marijuana in California and patients who buy medical marijuana with a prescription from their doctors?

You're celebrating one of the most extreme examples of the federal government trampling state's rights in our lifetime.

[Coffee and TV]

It doesn't matter. Federal law still applies, so it is not "decriminalized." In every one of those states, people are still arrested on Federal drug charges in connection to marijuana.

Even the Ninth Circuit has written that medical marijuana in any given State does not mean growing, selling, or use of it, even for that purpose, gives anyone due process rights Federally.

Federally, those dreams went up in smoke in Gonzalez v. Raich.

And this is different from DOMA versus states with gay marriage, how?

[Coffee and TV]

Keep flying, potbirds.

I like how you resort to name-calling (something that liberals are constantly accused of on this board) just because I believe in weed legalization. Nevermind that I don't smoke. I also don't shoot guns, but believe in the 2nd amendment. I'm not religious but believe that you should be free to worship however you'd like, so long as it doesn't infringe on anyone else's rights.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Here's another great story. A dope-smoker kills his passenger in an auto accident. I know...crazy because dope is safer than marijuana, right?

http://centralwisconsinhub.wausaudailyherald.com/article/20120228/WDH0101/202280498/Man-faces-homicide-charge-after-crash?odyssey=tab|mostpopular|text|FRONTPAGE

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Medical marijuana is legal under California law. Do you believe it's proper for the federal government to arrest companies that dispense medical marijuana in California and patients who buy medical marijuana with a prescription from their doctors?

You're celebrating one of the most extreme examples of the federal government trampling state's rights in our lifetime.

Celebrating? I'm pointing out that Federal law trumps State law...yes, even in States of supposed "decriminalization."

We have some here who think "medical" marijuana laws somehow allow any use, possession, or distribution in certain States to trump Federal law. It doesn't.

And, yes, I am 164% for Federal drug laws trumping any State drug law where marijuana is concerned.

Go ask the old Farmers Branch mayor about how the Feds view States pretending that Federal law doesn't apply to them. It's a slam dunk for Federal jurists. And, again, even the Ninth Circuit and Cali Supreme Court have acknowledged as much in marijuana cases.

It's not legal. It's not going to be legal. Don't be misled by the burners over at NORML. Just because they've burned too many brain cells to understand the application of Federal laws on a State level doesn't mean you should be misled as well. Federal law allows for the arrest of marijuana users, sellers, and manufacturers even in California.

(I'm also for gun laws being enforced. Anything dangerous, like guns and marijuana, needs by default to be given as little benefit of the doubt legally as possible.)

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

A 16-year old and 17-year old die in a single car accident. All three of the occupants - the driver and two passengers - had been smoking dope before the accident. You have to wonder, though, whether or not this story is real because dope smokers say marijuana is safer than alcohol.

People at NORML say it as well. They spend millions of dollars to say, so this story must have another wrinkle to it. Anyone who spends millions of dollars to say marijuana is safe no matter what medical and scientific studies say must be right, right?:

http://www.wlky.com/r/30482613/detail.html

[Legend500]

Of course federal law trumps state law. However, you're forgetting the effects of enforcement nullification.

What is that? Well, when a state - hypothetically, the state of Lone Star -passes a law decriminalizing or allowing medical use of marijuana, the Federal government loses the ability to adequately enforce it's laws. That's one of the beauties of our Federalist system. Although the Feds can still carry out raids with local assistance, no local information is getting to the federal level, making enforcement, aside from a few showy raids, impossible. Here's an example:

Let's say I run Pot is Us in the city of Town, County of Franklin, State of Lone Star. Does the local cop report my operation which he sees 3 times a day? No. The county sheriff? No. The DA or legislators? As anyone who is familiar with lawyers and drug use would know, hell no. What about the state licensing authority or it's tax department. All still no. So here's the rub: as long as I stay too small to ignore on a national level, or as long as I'm not horribly unlucky to be the 1 producer out of 10,000 raided, I'm fine.

Now, here's the argumentative part. First, anyone who supports the outcome in Raich is not a conservative. What allows me to say that? Because that case took theabuse of the Commerce Clause to its maximum possible extent, and conservatives hate the Commerce Clause more than they hate Obama.

Second, the argument that pot is bad because it kills people is specious at best. Further the argument that pot kills as many people as alcohol is an argument supporting the prohibition of alcohol, not the prohibition of pot. Guns, hamburgers, legal drugs, alcohol, tobacco and cars all killed more people than illegal drugs, and I sure don't want any of those things banned.

Third, pot's status as an illegal drug kills far more people than pot itself. Altria and other companies, if allowed to buy and sell pot, would not engage in the sort of wholesale bloodletting of the type that is happening in Mexico right now.

Fourth, coming from a strict constructionist constitutional view, you have a right to use pot. Courts would not Follow this logic - yet - but any conservative reading of the Constitution makes it clear. The fact that no right to use pot is mentioned doesn't, mean the right does not exist (9th Amend), states are granted the authority to regulate drugs, not the federal government (10th) , and one's right to liberty outweighs the government's interests in banning something it simply doesn't like ( Lawrence v. Texas, 14th).

[rcade]

Here's another great story. A dope-smoker kills his passenger in an auto accident. I know...crazy because dope is safer than marijuana, right?

http://centralwiscon...|text|FRONTPAGE

That driver is being charged with DUI. He could still be charged with DUI if marijuana was legal.

Every day millions of Americans use pot or alcohol without harming anybody else. You'd declare them all illegal because of the small number of people who can't exercise good judgment.

That reasoning could be extended to any mood-altering substance -- tobacco, caffeine, energy drinks, and on and on.

Instead of blaming the drugs or the booze, how about blaming the people who can't handle themselves?

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Pothead abandons newborn at gas station...

http://www.contracostatimes.com/california/ci_20064374

[Censored by Laurie]

Pothead abandons newborn at gas station...

http://www.contracostatimes.com/california/ci_20064374

I've said it before, I'll say it again...correlation does not imply causality...though, that is simple logic and will likely just go right over your head.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Of course federal law trumps state law. However, you're forgetting the effects of enforcement nullification.

What is that? Well, when a state - hypothetically, the state of Lone Star -passes a law decriminalizing or allowing medical use of marijuana, the Federal government loses the ability to adequately enforce it's laws. That's one of the beauties of our Federalist system. Although the Feds can still carry out raids with local assistance, no local information is getting to the federal level, making enforcement, aside from a few showy raids, impossible. Here's an example:

Let's say I run Pot is Us in the city of Town, County of Franklin, State of Lone Star. Does the local cop report my operation which he sees 3 times a day? No. The county sheriff? No. The DA or legislators? As anyone who is familiar with lawyers and drug use would know, hell no. What about the state licensing authority or it's tax department. All still no. So here's the rub: as long as I stay too small to ignore on a national level, or as long as I'm not horribly unlucky to be the 1 producer out of 10,000 raided, I'm fine.

Now, here's the argumentative part. First, anyone who supports the outcome in Raich is not a conservative. What allows me to say that? Because that case took theabuse of the Commerce Clause to its maximum possible extent, and conservatives hate the Commerce Clause more than they hate Obama.

Second, the argument that pot is bad because it kills people is specious at best. Further the argument that pot kills as many people as alcohol is an argument supporting the prohibition of alcohol, not the prohibition of pot. Guns, hamburgers, legal drugs, alcohol, tobacco and cars all killed more people than illegal drugs, and I sure don't want any of those things banned.

Third, pot's status as an illegal drug kills far more people than pot itself. Altria and other companies, if allowed to buy and sell pot, would not engage in the sort of wholesale bloodletting of the type that is happening in Mexico right now.

Fourth, coming from a strict constructionist constitutional view, you have a right to use pot. Courts would not Follow this logic - yet - but any conservative reading of the Constitution makes it clear. The fact that no right to use pot is mentioned doesn't, mean the right does not exist (9th Amend), states are granted the authority to regulate drugs, not the federal government (10th) , and one's right to liberty outweighs the government's interests in banning something it simply doesn't like ( Lawrence v. Texas, 14th).

(1) I'd say Scalia concurring with Raich...nevermind.

(2) The argument is because pot is a factor in killing, there is no need to dump it onto what is already a problem with alcohol.

(3) That's the NORML line, for sure. But, taking the word of people who have been baking their brain cells for decades as truth is crazy. Let the drug dealers kill each other. Mexico's law enforcement problem was a problem long before the drug wars as well.

(4) You don't have the right to use pot. Ask anyone who has been arrested in the last 24 hours. People are still arrested in "decriminalized" State. That's already been documented in cases that reached the California and Massachusetts Supreme Courts.

Smoke up; but, don't be surprised if the cops show up and haul you away. It's not legal. And, it's not going to be legal.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

I've said it before, I'll say it again...correlation does not imply causality...though, that is simple logic and will likely just go right over your head.

Yeah. I'm sure that is what people think to themselves when they are, you know, burying their kids who have been killed by marijuana users. Because, as we all know, the world is simply academic; there are no real world consequences.

I'm sure the State of California's position with this gal will be, "No biggie. Sober people put babies in trash bags and leave them at gas stations all the time. It's just a coincidence that the baby was born with marijuana in her system and her mom is a burner."

The shackling her and charging her with stuff is just a show. California and other states really love pothead moms and dads. They make great parents. They'll probably give this gal and award when it's all said and done, for good parenting.

[ntmeangreen11]

Yeah. I'm sure that is what people think to themselves when they are, you know, burying their kids who have been killed by marijuana users. Because, as we all know, the world is simply academic; there are no real world consequences.

I'm sure the State of California's position with this gal will be, "No biggie. Sober people put babies in trash bags and leave them at gas stations all the time. It's just a coincidence that the baby was born with marijuana in her system and her mom is a burner."

The shackling her and charging her with stuff is just a show. California and other states really love pothead moms and dads. They make great parents. They'll probably give this gal and award when it's all said and done, for good parenting.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

What exactly are you trying to accomplish with this thread on a mean green football forum?

http://www.leap.com

[Green P1]

I'm just glad marijuana use screws up your memory. Theres no telling how many babies I killed back in my day.

[Green2012]

Couldn't we make the case that 'x' causes this many accidents every year? Does that mean we ban all those things? I understand your opinion (although I disagree) on keeping marijuana use illegal but I'm failing to see why you'd single out one particular drug. Prescription drugs cause deaths, alcohol causes deaths, Benadryl causes deaths, sleeping pills causes deaths, cold medicines are killing infants, etc.

I just don't understand how some can claim people need to have more self responsibility and accountability but then want to babysit their actions at home. I think everything comes down to being responsible with your decisions. Are we going to make 5 Guys start serving grilled tilapia because their burgers and fries are killing people? I hope not. Where do the laws and regulation end and people start making decisions on their own?

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Couldn't we make the case that 'x' causes this many accidents every year? Does that mean we ban all those things? I understand your opinion (although I disagree) on keeping marijuana use illegal but I'm failing to see why you'd single out one particular drug. Prescription drugs cause deaths, alcohol causes deaths, Benadryl causes deaths, sleeping pills causes deaths, cold medicines are killing infants, etc.

I just don't understand how some can claim people need to have more self responsibility and accountability but then want to babysit their actions at home. I think everything comes down to being responsible with your decisions. Are we going to make 5 Guys start serving grilled tilapia because their burgers and fries are killing people? I hope not. Where do the laws and regulation end and people start making decisions on their own?

That's the point. Legal alcohol is already a major problem in auto accidents. Illegal marijuana is also a big problem in auto accidents. Legalizing it would make the problem even worse. So, there's no real point in it.

Also, there's the ridiculous notion that the black market would disappear. There would be an age limit on it, like alcohol. Unlike alcohol, it doesn't have to be bottled or canned to get quality product. It will still be selling on the streets even if it's legalized.

Of course, we're talking about a huge pipe dream anyway given that it will never be legal Federally. And, as we continue to see with states trying to invent their own immigration laws, Federal judges apply Federal laws to quash what the State misconstrue as areas where they may freely legislate.

Until the Feds changed the schedule status of marijuana, it doesn't matter what states do...as "decriminalized" and "medical marijuana" states, and the potheads therein, have discovered: the states through their courts in applying Federal law to cases and the potheads as they are led away in handcuffs by Federal agents.

Ignore NORML because they are baked. Federal law is where the ballgame is. Although, believe me, I understand NORML rakes in plenty of dopehead cash in telling people they'll make it all better at the state level.

NORML rakes it in off of "joining" and 501 ©(3) status. They're like the NRA in that regard. If you have constructive purpose, you can always go 501©(3) and make money by scaring people and making them empty promises. Most people are too lazy (or, in NORML's case, stoned) to understand they can't do 99.9% of what they say they can anyway.

[UNT90]

Instead of blaming the drugs or the booze, how about blaming the people who can't handle themselves?

Yep, blame the people who are addicted to heroin, not just the casual user...

Just reversing your argument, you know, because if one drug should be legal, they all should be legal, right?

Crack, Heroin. Let's just hand it out like candy.

Because that would make America great again!!!

[mattmartin817]

Temperance movement 2012!!!

[Coffee and TV]

Yep, blame the people who are addicted to heroin, not just the casual user...

Just reversing your argument, you know, because if one drug should be legal, they all should be legal, right?

Crack, Heroin. Let's just hand it out like candy.

Because that would make America great again!!!

Sure. I mean, if I can own a gun and keep it in my house, I should be able to own a tank too! Right?