Thoughts on this TCU mess

[rcade]

You have your opinions and that is fine. What amazes me is you have people, that deal with this everyday and know alot more about you on the subject, and you refuse to see their points.

So we should all just shut up and let the cops and prosecutors keep self-justifying their work prosecuting a drug significantly less harmful than alcohol and cigarettes?

If Emmitt or somebody else who deals directly with potheads wants to share tales of how using it ruins lives, be my guest.

There are countless stories like that about drugs like meth. It's a scourge here in Florida. I know a bunch of people who've hurt themselves with alcohol. I know some who've hurt themselves with cigarettes. I don't know a single person who hurt himself with pot.

Edited February 19, 2012 by rcade

[UNT90]

So we should all just shut up and let the cops and prosecutors keep self-justifying their work prosecuting a drug significantly less harmful than alcohol and cigarettes?

If Emmitt or somebody else who deals directly with potheads wants to share tales of how using it ruins lives, be my guest.

There are countless stories like that about drugs like meth. It's a scourge here in Florida. I know a bunch of people who've hurt themselves with alcohol. I know some who've hurt themselves with cigarettes. I don't know a single person who hurt himself with pot.

This

That

Or, just go with "i've never know anyone hurt by marihuana use" theory.

Yes, I know alcohol causes the same thing. Unfortunately, alcohol is so ingrained in society (legal for centuries, minus a couple of years) that there is nothing that can be done about it, other than to increase penalties for driving drunk. Marihuana has not been legal for centuries and is not ingrained in the American culture (yet) and should not be legalized in any way, shape, or form.

Do you really think this country needs to OK people F'n themselves up even more?

I don't.

[rcade]

Do you really think this country needs to OK people F'n themselves up even more?

I think in a free country, any drug that's no more harmful than alcohol or cigarettes should be legal.

You would bring back Prohibition if you could. I think Prohibition was one of the biggest mistakes the country ever made. Why should millions of people who consume alcohol responsibly have to lose out because of the small minority who can't? The same would be true of marijuana.

As for whether marijuana is "ingrained" in our society, 42 percent of Americans have tried it at least once, according to a 2008 Time Magazine article.

Edited February 19, 2012 by rcade

[UNT90]

I think in a free country, any drug that's no more harmful than alcohol or cigarettes should be legal.

You would bring back Prohibition if you could. I think Prohibition was one of the biggest mistakes the country ever made. Why should millions of people who consume alcohol responsibly have to lose out because of the small minority who can't? The same would be true of marijuana.

As for whether marijuana is "ingrained" in our society, 42 percent of Americans have tried it at least once, according to a 2008 Time Magazine article.

One generation is not what I am talking about. Alcohol has been ingrained in business deals, sales calls, celebrations of victory or drownding of sorrows in defeat, toasting at weddings, etc. for centuries upon centuries in our culture. Should it be illegal? Yes. Is that practical? No. Do we need to sanction yet another drug to throw on top of alcohol, whose effects on society cost this country billions of dollars a year? No.

Kinda done here. If you get to a game this fall, find me in the tailgate area. We can discuss it further over a beer or 5.

[Rudy]

Kinda done here. If you get to a game this fall, find me in the tailgate area. We can discuss it further over a beer or 5.

Or a bong?

[risinggreen]

This

That

Marihuana has not been legal for centuries and is not ingrained in the American culture (yet) and should not be legalized in any way, shape, or form.

Actually it has been legal for centuries since it was only finally outlawed in the 1930's by the Feds. Although I feel that it should be totally decriminalized (no arrests) in regard to possession of small amounts, I'm kind of on the fence as far as total legalization is concerned.

The total overall effects of drunks on our society are clearly more severe (IMO) than that of potheads, but the piling of one on top of the other is certainly something to think about. I guess it would depend at least partially on how legalization took effect, because the potential rules and regulations are obviously a pretty complicated issue.

As far as the TCU mess is concerned, I'm starting to think that it has been overblown a bit as far as attacking those involved. Was this really some organized "drug ring" pushing drugs on fellow students, or for the most part, was this just a bunch of college kids being college kids and passing a little weed amongst themselves?

Me thinks that it was the latter for most, even though a handful of them probably were dealing for significant profit. Lumping their mugshots all together on the front page of the DMN looks to be a little extreme to me, unless their is more negative info to come. A bit on the side of a witch hunt if you ask me.

[Rudy]

Actually it has been legal for centuries since it was only finally outlawed in the 1930's by the Feds. Although I feel that it should be totally decriminalized (no arrests) in regard to possession of small amounts, I'm kind of on the fence as far as total legalization is concerned.

If he knew how most cops handle a single joint his head would explode.

Here's a hint:I'm not going to spend an hour at the jail for a single joint.

[risinggreen]

If he knew how most cops handle a single joint his head would explode.

Here's a hint:I'm not going to spend an hour at the jail for a single joint.

I think it kind of depends on where you are, who you are, and who the cop is. I know of a small town cop who would take you to jail for the smell if he could get away with it. Kind of antiquated, but those things still happen all over.

[risinggreen]

So we should all just shut up and let the cops and prosecutors keep self-justifying their work prosecuting a drug significantly less harmful than alcohol and cigarettes?

If Emmitt or somebody else who deals directly with potheads wants to share tales of how using it ruins lives, be my guest.

There are countless stories like that about drugs like meth. It's a scourge here in Florida. I know a bunch of people who've hurt themselves with alcohol. I know some who've hurt themselves with cigarettes. I don't know a single person who hurt himself with pot.

I think pot abusers tend to damage themselves (not necessarily physically) more than they damage others, while booze abusers tend to damage themselves AND damage others. Not a good story either way I guess. Of course the toll taken on others around you has to be considered with both. Would legalization take some of the "coolness" out of pot, or would it cause more to smoke on a regular basis? Hell if I know.

[UNT90]

I think pot abusers tend to damage themselves (not necessarily physically) more than they damage others, while booze abusers tend to damage themselves AND damage others. Not a good story either way I guess. Of course the toll taken on others around you has to be considered with both. Would legalization take some of the "coolness" out of pot, or would it cause more to smoke on a regular basis? Hell if I know.

Some things to consider with legalization: Laziness that marihuana induces, more people without jobs, more of your tax money to support these people; having to tolerate second hand smoke around your children in public places (and explaining what that smell is to your child).

[Rudy]

I think it kind of depends on where you are, who you are, and who the cop is. I know of a small town cop who would take you to jail for the smell if he could get away with it. Kind of antiquated, but those things still happen all over.

To an extent, you're right, but it more depends on the totality of the circumstances.

[UNT90]

To an extent, you're right, but it more depends on the totality of the circumstances.

I know what you are talking about, but it happens less and less these days. Combine in-car camera systems, GOs that forbid evidence destruction, and pollice administrations bound and determined to eliminate the use of officer discretion, and you end up with more and more officers who are scared to just grind that joint into the pavement.

Sad, bedcause it also eliminates a great tool for information collection for the beat officer.

[Rudy]

I know what you are talking about, but it happens less and less these days. Combine in-car camera systems, GOs that forbid evidence destruction, and pollice administrations bound and determined to eliminate the use of officer discretion, and you end up with more and more officers who are scared to just grind that joint into the pavement.

Sad, bedcause it also eliminates a great tool for information collection for the beat officer.

No, it can still happen quite a bit. Evidence destruction pertains to when there is a case. If you aren't going to file a charge, then there is no evidence to destroy. The way laws are written give us quite a bit of discretion. But then again, the laws in Texas are "draconian"

[Green P1]

I know for a fact that the UNT K-9 officers will take you in for less than a joint...

[UNT90]

No, it can still happen quite a bit. Evidence destruction pertains to when there is a case. If you aren't going to file a charge, then there is no evidence to destroy. The way laws are written give us quite a bit of discretion. But then again, the laws in Texas are "draconian"

Don't confuse Texas law with departmental policies. Most large departments do random review of in car camera recordings. All major departments ban grinding the joint into the pavement in their policies. If a tight assed (or scared) supervisor reviews video of an officer destroying marihuana, he could most certainly discipline ( letter of reprimand, suspension) that officer for a violation of department policy. Officers know this, and more and more are hesitant to take the risk.

Sad, but true.

[Rudy]

Don't confuse Texas law with departmental policies. Most large departments do random review of in car camera recordings. All major departments ban grinding the joint into the pavement in their policies. If a tight assed (or scared) supervisor reviews video of an officer destroying marihuana, he could most certainly discipline ( letter of reprimand, suspension) that officer for a violation of department policy. Officers know this, and more and more are hesitant to take the risk.

Sad, but true.

All departments do random review of dash cam videos. Even IF they have that in their policy manual, there is a gray area.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

This

That

Or, just go with "i've never know anyone hurt by marihuana use" theory.

Yes, I know alcohol causes the same thing. Unfortunately, alcohol is so ingrained in society (legal for centuries, minus a couple of years) that there is nothing that can be done about it, other than to increase penalties for driving drunk. Marihuana has not been legal for centuries and is not ingrained in the American culture (yet) and should not be legalized in any way, shape, or form.

Do you really think this country needs to OK people F'n themselves up even more?

I don't.

The weird thing about the marijuana studies is that legalization proponents simply ignore them and keep saying it doesn't hurt anyone. Scientific evidence be damned, the potheads are too burned out to understand them anyway.

It doesn't matter to me that some people use it and function. You have functional alcoholics in society is well. That doesn't mean alcoholism is good.

Oh, but Fake Lonnie, pot isn't addictive. That's always the funniest line to me. Really? Then, stop using it and see if it's addictive. Or, when not baked, read the scientific studies that say it is.

There's really no point in throwing one more substance of abuse into the legal mix of things when alcohol already does enough damage to society.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18482420

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14672250

But, we all understand, clearly, that telling potheads that marijuana use is bad for them gets them all defensive. Fine.

Regardless, marijuana is illegal. And, therefore, the selling of it is also illegal. Thus, the TCU kids are busted - as they should be - and, rightfully, will have on their record the scourge of drug dealing.

The thing not in line here is the concern for their "young lives." Baloney. Rich kids at TCU will have dads and moms that will still make sure they are comfortable in adulthood with jobs, houses, and car lined up.

These miscreants will be laughing about their drug-dealing days in the years to come. The laughter only stops when there are deaths and accidents. Until then, what's a little smoke or drink here and there...lighten up, Fake Lonnie. Gah.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

If you have kids, you understand the thrust of the argument. You tell your child not to do something or the other because you know it can harm them. They don't see it and so they do it when you're not looking.

Eventually, they may hurt themselves. Then, they will understand. It's the same with drunks and potheads. Nothing is serious until someone is harmed.

You can't use logic or facts with kids, drunks, or potheads.

[rcade]

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18482420

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/14672250

But, we all understand, clearly, that telling potheads that marijuana use is bad for them gets them all defensive. Fine.

Neither of those links is about the health effects of marijuana use. They're about much more vague criteria regarding "quality of life."

You could do a study about heavy Big Mac eaters and get poorer scores on quality of life subjects. Should those be illegal too?

[rcade]

You can't use logic or facts with kids, drunks, or potheads.

Do you drink?

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Do you drink?

Not anymore. But, even if I still did it would skirt the issue - alcohol consumption is legal. Marijuana is illegal. Piling marijuana users and the problems they cause onto the mix of alcoholics and the problems they cause doesn't make sense...to anyone except marijuana users.

[rcade]

Not anymore. But, even if I still did it would skirt the issue - alcohol consumption is legal. Marijuana is illegal. Piling marijuana users and the problems they cause onto the mix of alcoholics and the problems they cause doesn't make sense...to anyone except marijuana users.

If you read this discussion you already know I'm not a marijuana smoker. You should get off the incorrect notion that only potheads care about pot legalization.

In my view, alcohol has larger health and societal consequences than pot. But yet it's legal, and we accept that adults can decide for themselves whether to use it.

I don't know why we don't grant adults the same freedom with marijuana. The war on drugs is a massive and expensive failure.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

If you read this discussion you already know I'm not a marijuana smoker. You should get off the incorrect notion that only potheads care about pot legalization.

In my view, alcohol has larger health and societal consequences than pot. But yet it's legal, and we accept that adults can decide for themselves whether to use it.

I don't know why we don't grant adults the same freedom with marijuana. The war on drugs is a massive and expensive failure.

I never said you were a pothead. Go back and read.

The reason alcohol has larger consequences is that it is legal. That's the problem we keep reiterating. Marijuana, which does the same thing as alcohol - slow down reaction time and screw up time and space thinking - would be just as bad if legal.

Also, nobody has any idea what the effect of the "war on drugs" is. No one ever said it would completely stop the drug use.

Because we don't know what condition the country would be in if there was no deterrent against narcotics, it's not possibly to say with any authority what the total effect of the war on drugs have been.

Detractors point only to dollar signs and incarcerations. They do not point to lives spared of drug addition, because it isn't possible to quantify.

The message should always be drugs are dangerous, drugs are illegal, no drugs allowed. That is better than no message at all.

I know drug dealers aren't wandering my streets making it unsafe for my kids to be out and playing. Is that a result of the war on drugs? Maybe, and maybe not. But, I'm sure it hasn't hurt. So, I'd rather keep spending money as insurance against what might be.

Believe me, it's no skin off my back that potheads and dealers are thrown in jail. The laws are clear, and rightfully err on the side of caution. Every second a drug criminal or user is off the street, the street is safer.

My wish is that the law were stronger against alcohol - higher age limit to buy and no probation offers to first time DWIs. Too many repeat DWI offenders kill, maim, and paralyze for me to feel pity on any of them.

In my 42 years on planet earth, I've seen the following

-Two friends die in drunk driving accident in which they were the driver (ages 22 and 34)

-One friend die in which he was the passenger of a drunk driver (age 34)

-One friend killed by a drunk driver (age 19)

-One friend who, while driving drunk, smashed into another car, killing a five year old girl (age 34)

-Two friends die of the effects of alcoholism (one from liver disease, the other from heart failure) (age 34 and 41)

-One friend who committed suicide after years of being unable to get clean from alcohol. (age 42)

The two friends on mine who died of alcoholism were also marijuana users, each contributing to their overall addictions.

-Two who died were students in college

-The guy who died while driving drunk was married and had a daughter

-The guy who was a passenger and died was married and had a daughter

-Obviously, the guy who ran into the other car, took another family's daughter too soon

-The first addicted friend was married with a daughter

-The second addicted friend was divorced and had a son

Legalized alcohol does enough damage to people. Piling marijuana on top of that is an unnecessary experiment into the unknown that we don't need to see.