Possible Sun Belt

[UNT90]

I don't know about any of the superiority issues, 1AA, or academic issues- but I do know that traveling to San Marcos and San Antonio are actually possibilities for me. Going to Louisianna, Florida, Kentucky, and Tennessee are not options for me.

So purely from a travel point of view- I'm in favor of UTSA and Texas State. I'm going to watch UNT play no matter what their level of competition is. I get just as stoked for an NT game against Texas Pan-American as I do any other. I think I'd feel the same way about football.

I'll let the people that all the details work out the rest. But for the record, from a purely geographical convenience point of view, I'm in favor of UTSA and Texas State.

And our stadium will remain empty because no one in our fan base gives 2 craps about these schools.

You and I would go see UNt play Midwestern St. In football (hey, they are close, let's get them on the schedule!). Fans like us are not the concern

[Green P1]

Let's not be like UT or SMU and do anything to avoid competition.

Nah. It's stupid when they do it to us. Us doing it to others would be cool.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Green P1

[GangGreen]

How many times has North Texas been slighted by another school in our programs history because that program didn't want anything to do with us? It's about being cutthroat and sabotaging other schools. There are already 10 FBS schools in Texas. 85 scholly's/teamm =850 players over for years. Two more schools = 1020. I'm pretty sure Texas produces around 250 FBS signess a year or so, with about 100 of them signing out of state.

Actually this year about 400 Texas kids signed with FBS schools, including UTSA and TX ST. About 200 of them are going out of state. Just saying.

[TIgreen01]

I am not for spreading out the talent pool even more by bringing up UTSA and TSU. But I'm also not for pulling some SMU like shenanigans on them should they come to the table with enough money, in hand, to play. Our problem has always been that we have never (until very recently) brought enough money to play at the same table/level as SMU/Houston/TCU. It's hard to blame them for not wanting to play with us when we've never been interested (funding our program at our past levels demonstrates this lack of interest) in truly playing at their level.

Times have now changed, though. We've built the facilities, we've increased the budget and coaching salaries. We are finally to the point that we can honestly say that we belong in that next rung. If UTSA and TSU can do the same thing, then there will be no reason to turn them away. At this point, though...they are not there yet.

[TheColonyEagle]

I really don't think UNT spent all that $$ on upgrading facilities, building a new stadium and "committing" to athletics to stay in the Sunbelt much less jump on the chance to be in a conference with 1-AA teams.

If they did then......yikes

[GreenN'walinsVet]

And our stadium will remain empty because no one in our fan base gives 2 craps about these schools.

You and I would go see UNt play Midwestern St. In football (hey, they are close, let's get them on the schedule!). Fans like us are not the concern

To me this is where i think you are wrong. We constantly complain that we don't play anybody our students have heard about or care about, but most of our students have friends that attend Texas State and or UTSA. They will care about those games because bragging rights will be on the line. People don't miss our games with FAU because they haven't heard of them, they stay away because their is no connection. Yes if we brought in Notre Dame kids would come out with no connection because they heard of them, but just because kids have heard of Temple or UAB (maybe) or Fresno State doesn't mean that they are just going to start filling the stadium. They will come when there is a real interest, and bragging rights with your high school friends or even family is one of those reasons.

[untjim1995]

I really don't think UNT spent all that $$ on upgrading facilities, building a new stadium and "committing" to athletics to stay in the Sunbelt much less jump on the chance to be in a conference with 1-AA teams.

If they did then......yikes

I have said this often, but building Apogee literally saved the UNT Football program from extinction, as Fouts was decrepit and literally couldn't function as a stadium anymore. Generators had to be used to prop that old dump up for a gameday. Apogee keeps us from ever worrying about losing the program, as it is beautiful and modern and cost a lot of money, so the university HAS to keep the program going.

What Apogee can't do, though, is get us to move upward to a new conference and change our university's reputation regarding athletics from the last 50+ years. Sure, Apogee will help us if we were to move up, but having games against Texas Southern, Florida International, South Alabama, Louisiana-Lafayette, and Arkansas State will never drive attendance in this market. New conferences want TV sets and media coverage, along with a winning program. Our DFW market has the TV sets, but we have very little media coverage, and obviously, the winning hasn't really been there to create a buzz around the program.

What I think about UTSA and Texas State is that they are solid fallbacks for the Sun Belt Conference. I don't think we should try to blackball them, ala SMU vs us, but I don't think we should go overboard to help them get included, either. Same goes for La Tech, and really NMSU, who abandoned our conference and forced us to take the two tranistional Florida Airport schools just to stay FBS. If the conference leadership decides for any of those schools to be admitted, it will be good for UNT, only because people here know of those schools and are somewhat easy to travel to. But, it will also be bad for us because we still have no one with any FBS skins on the wall to be conference mates with from Texas, which further perpetuates our problem that no one worth a damn to Texans will ever be associated with us in a conference. And, to me, the biggest gain from moving up into the merger is that I believe that the future first culling of FBS will be from the WAC/SBC/MAC. I realize that there could be a future culling after this that would take out the remaining Alliance teams, too, but I don't think that will happen any time soon. But I do think that non-Alliance, non-AQs, are going to get dropped back down to a FCS existence, and it will probably happen within the next decade. If we can get in with the Alliance and if we have even just a couple of Texas teams in that league, as well as Tulsa, Tulane, USM, etc. to be associated with, it would do a lot to help continue our progress as a FBS program, as it would probably cement us at the FBS level for many years to come. I don't believe that being in the SBC/WAC conglomerate will do that. I think it will just continue to make us an after-thought in DFW and eventually move us back to a non-FBS level in the future.

[smoothfresh]

Another great post Vet.. guess what our students aren't going to give a crap about the likes of East Carolina or San Jose State coming to Apogee. The problem is not us loyal fans who are on this board talking and following UNT athletics every move. Regional teams are a good way to at least attempt to get people to come to our fantastic stadium.. guess what the likes of LSU, USC, Virginia Tech aren't venturing this way anytime soon. We had Indiana at home.. was that crowd really what we should settle for?? no way.. at least with Texas State or someone in the area we at least have the possibility of getting a few of their fans up and having some of our students invite their buddies who go to these schools up for a weekend of football and partying in our town.

Edited February 15, 2012 by smoothfresh

[Green Mean]

Add LT, NMSU, and Texas State and I'll be content should we get passed up. I'm sorry but I think UTSA has to earn their stripes and go through several struggles and lots of pain before going to the perfect situation for them so quickly.

[UNT90]

To me this is where i think you are wrong. We constantly complain that we don't play anybody our students have heard about or care about, but most of our students have friends that attend Texas State and or UTSA. They will care about those games because bragging rights will be on the line. People don't miss our games with FAU because they haven't heard of them, they stay away because their is no connection. Yes if we brought in Notre Dame kids would come out with no connection because they heard of them, but just because kids have heard of Temple or UAB (maybe) or Fresno State doesn't mean that they are just going to start filling the stadium. They will come when there is a real interest, and bragging rights with your high school friends or even family is one of those reasons.

Ya, huge bragging rights with beating UTSA or Texas St. HUGE!!

There will be no bragging rights because students at those institutions don't care about their football program. Think UNT circa 1986.

We are just starting to develop a fan base. This would be the equivelant of eating our young.

[UNTLifer]

Somebody call me when facts replace speculation.

Edited February 15, 2012 by UNTLifer

[foutsrouts]

Why don't we just join the Southland or SWAC and be done with it. Geez.....

[Eagle1855]

Why don't we just join the Southland or SWAC and be done with it. Geez.....

It would certainly cost a lot less. and hey, we could win a national championship!

[Eagle1855]

I mean seriously, it's clear how lowly we are thought of in the world of College Football. We aren't even discussed as a possible addition to ANY conference by anyone, outside of college football forums.

There are now 7 BCS teams in Texas, and we aren't one of them. Which means we are now one of three other teams in the state currently playing FBS football that aren't in a major conference. Which means seven other teams will have first crack at every single recruit in this state, plus the hosts of schools surrounding Texas that regularly recruit the hell out of our backyard.

What can we offer a FBS student above and beyond anyone in DFW, much less the rest of Texas? We aren't the best academically. We aren't in a good conference. We don't have a rabid fan base. We don't have the finest location in the state... I mean, what is there that UNT offers that bests the rest, in the mind of a college recruit?

This last batch of realignment seems to have really screwed us. ASSUMING all things remain as they are... which we all know is subject to change... what's the bright side? What is there to be excited about? Being better than UTSA and Texas State? Who cares.

Feel free to delete this if you think it will negatively affect recruiting more than the Sun Belt/WAC talk already does.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Eagle1855

[Eastwood Eagle]

To me this is where i think you are wrong. We constantly complain that we don't play anybody our students have heard about or care about, but most of our students have friends that attend Texas State and or UTSA. They will care about those games because bragging rights will be on the line. People don't miss our games with FAU because they haven't heard of them, they stay away because their is no connection. Yes if we brought in Notre Dame kids would come out with no connection because they heard of them, but just because kids have heard of Temple or UAB (maybe) or Fresno State doesn't mean that they are just going to start filling the stadium. They will come when there is a real interest, and bragging rights with your high school friends or even family is one of those reasons.

I could not agree with you more. We need to think of a way to make sure we have some in state rivalries IF we get passed up by this new conference. Adding these two schools will benefit UNT in the LONG RUN (and short run) because over time we can build rivalries with these two schools. Stop thinking short sighted. In 20+ years when all three schools have solid football programs this can be a fun rivalry and it starts now.

This superiority stuff is getting old. I do not believe UNT is in a position to turn our nose up at two up and coming Division 1 football teams in two great Texas cities, where students and alumni have friends that graduated from these schools.

And the argument that we would lose out to recruits is a joke. Win and the recruits will come.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Eastwood Eagle

[UNT90]

I mean seriously, it's clear how lowly we are thought of in the world of College Football. We aren't even discussed as a possible addition to ANY conference by anyone, outside of college football forums.

There are now 7 BCS teams in Texas, and we aren't one of them. Which means we are now one of three other teams in the state currently playing FBS football that aren't in a major conference. Which means seven other teams will have first crack at every single recruit in this state, plus the hosts of schools surrounding Texas that regularly recruit the hell out of our backyard.

What can we offer a FBS student above and beyond anyone in DFW, much less the rest of Texas? We aren't the best academically. We aren't in a good conference. We don't have a rabid fan base. We don't have the finest location in the state... I mean, what is there that UNT offers that bests the rest, in the mind of a college recruit?

This last batch of realignment seems to have really screwed us. ASSUMING all things remain as they are... which we all know is subject to change... what's the bright side? What is there to be excited about? Being better than UTSA and Texas State? Who cares.

Feel free to delete this if you think it will negatively affect recruiting more than the Sun Belt/WAC talk already does.

The main thing we offer is 3 star recruits the chance to compete immediately for playing time. Some kids value the opportunity to compete more than going to a BCS school where they will ride the bench for their entire career (but only the really smart ones get this). Our facilities are also pretty dang nice.

But I get where you are coming from. I fear that not moving up this time around may kill any chance this program has of ever moving up.

[KRAM1]

Somebody call me when facts replace speculation.

AMEN and thank you. Could not agree more!

[Green Mean]

Somebody call me when facts replace speculation.

What's the fun in that?

[UNT90]

I could not agree with you more. We need to think of a way to make sure we have some in state rivalries IF we get passed up by this new conference. Adding these two schools will benefit UNT in the LONG RUN (and short run) because over time we can build rivalries with these two schools. Stop thinking short sighted. In 20+ years when all three schools have solid football programs this can be a fun rivalry and it starts now.

This superiority stuff is getting old. I do not believe UNT is in a position to turn our nose up at two up and coming Division 1 football teams in two great Texas cities, where students and alumni have friends that graduated from these schools.

And the argument that we would lose out to recruits is a joke. Win and the recruits will come.

The inferiority stuff has been around a LOT longer.

And like I said in another post, Midwestern St. is close, let's add them as a rival also.

Could Tarleton St. (hey, a road game close to Granbury!!) and Abilene Christian be far behind? I mean, they are in Texas, right? We shouldn't turn our nose up at them.

[foutsrouts]

The inferiority stuff has been around a LOT longer.

And like I said in another post, Midwestern St. is close, let's add them as a rival also.

Could Tarleton St. (hey, a road game close to Granbury!!) and Abilene Christian be far behind? I mean, they are in Texas, right? We shouldn't turn our nose up at them.

Yes, why not encourage all of our old Southland mates to move up and join the party? That way, when the day comes for the final separation between the haves and have nots, we can all settle back down together once again into the cozy 1AA comfort of the good ole Southland Conference.