New CUSA MWC Merger will include 18-24 Members

[GrayEagle]

Insanity doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result.

Chasing markets is why the once really good MWC and CUSA are in the position of believing they need to merge.

Other than UAB, Tulane, Rice, and UNLV all the market teams have left.

As Harry and I have discussed UNT and MTSU aren't true large market schools like Houston Memphis, FIU that are close to the heart of their metro.

Whoa, Nellie! You're totally wrong about that. Being in the heart of the metro can have little to do with being in the heart of a TV market. For example, the Dallas Fort-Worth TV market covers more than 30 counties in north Texas. They are the #5 market in the U.S. with 2,571,310 TV homes. Houston is America's 10th largest market, covering more than 20 counties with 2,185,260 TV households. That's their respective markets. Not that being in the center would be an advantage but UNT is near the center of the metro area (now the 4th largest in the U.S.) because the population of Denton County and the counties that abut it is 5.777 million. The entire DFW Metroplex is only 6.4 million.

I'm not as familiar with the Nashville area but their TV market has more than a million households while Memphis has less than 700 thousand. So MTSU has the same possibility for exposure as Vanderbilt and the SEC technically but in no market is the SBC going to get as many viewers as the SEC unless everyone is watching both.

With the influx of cable and satellites telecasting sports networks it's no longer important to be located where there is a strong signal.

One slight advantage that UNT and MTSU might have is that each has double the college enrollment of the FBS teams in their respective areas.

Edited February 16, 2012 by GrayEagle

[PlummMeanGreen]

Whoa, Nellie! You're totally wrong about that. Being in the heart of the metro can have little to do with being in the heart of a TV market. For example, the Dallas Fort-Worth TV market covers more than 30 counties in north Texas. They are the #5 market in the U.S. with 2,571,310 TV homes. Houston is America's 10th largest market, covering more than 20 counties with 2,185,260 TV households. That's their respective markets. Not that being in the center would be an advantage but UNT is near the center of the metro area (now the 4th largest in the U.S.) because the population of Denton County and the counties that abut it is 5.777 million. The entire DFW Metroplex is only 6.4 million.

I'm not as familiar with the Nashville area but their TV market has more than a million households while Memphis has less than 700 thousand. So MTSU has the same possibility for exposure as Vanderbilt and the SEC technically but in no market is the SBC going to get as many viewers as the SEC unless everyone is watching both.

With the influx of cable and satellites telecasting sports networks it's no longer important to be located where there is a strong signal.

One slight advantage that UNT and MTSU might have is that each has double the college enrollment of the FBS teams in their respective areas.

If UNT is not a large market school then what new philosophy or words describe the kind of market that small market schools are located?

The sad part about our school is if we'd had even half an athletic program for the last 25 or so years with top to bottom constistency, we would today be wondering who would be joining us in this Alliance and might have even been invited to CUSA last expansion go around--with even Fouts Field as our football venue to boot. Of course, SMU shoots down much of that theory with their W/L of the last 25 years and now famous attendance short-comings (even in winning seasons).

GMG!

Edited February 16, 2012 by PlummMeanGreen

[Arkstfan]

If UNT is not a large market school then what new philosophy or words describe the kind of market that small market schools are located?

The sad part about our school is if we'd had even half an athletic program for the last 25 or so years with top to bottom constistency, we would today be wondering who would be joining us in this Alliance and might have even been invited to CUSA last expansion go around--with even Fouts Field as our football venue to boot. Of course, SMU shoots down much of that theory with their W/L of the last 25 years and now famous attendance short-comings (even in winning seasons).

GMG!

Point missed.

Look around the college environment. Really with few exceptions (most notable NFL free zone LA), programs located in the heart of a metro are don't develop hardcore loyal fan bases. Houston has been all over the map, Rice was getting outdrawn by ASU when they were in the SWC and we were I-AA. Tulane and UAB struggle to draw any fans. Cincinnati and Rutgers have had problematic attendance. Pitt and Miami have never drawn like peers outside the heart of metro areas with similar profile and success.

UNT and MTSU are removed enough from the heart of the metro area to develop real fan bases and not just lookie-loos who show up when a big name is in town or the team is exceptionally successful.

That is a positive. Naturally you guys get your feathers ruffled over a positve.

[BeanCounterGrad'03]

Naturally you guys get your feathers ruffled over a positve.

Hey, its what we do. Its fun to do bad things.

[HootHoot]

Here's a thread over on our forum, discussing how we're confused that we're not being mentioned in any media reports. We recently mentioned you kind gentlemen and ladies in our discussion.

http://fauowlsnest.com/board/index.php?topic=12611.0

[wardly]

if the National Conference goes to 24, then we should be in. looks like UTEP moves west, Temple joins east for football only, and FIU for all sports. that gives them 18 football schools, 9 &9. MWC adds SJSU, Utah State, and UTSA to get to 12. CUSA adds UNT, FAU, and either MTSU or LA. Tech. NMSU and Texas State move to Sun Belt, Idaho drops down to Big Sky. it gets dicey if they go from 16 to a number less that 24.just a guess, and i havn't been right very often on this issue. i still can't let go of Memphis to Big East, but am working on it.

[Eagle1855]

UNT and MTSU are removed enough from the heart of the metro area to develop real fan bases and not just lookie-loos who show up when a big name is in town or the team is exceptionally successful.

This is probably true. I lived right in the middle of in Nashville, and I honestly never once gave a thought to, or had a conversation about anything related to MTSU athletics. And I'd have never driven to Murfreesboro to casually attend any sporting event (unless they were playing UNT). I did, however attend a handful of Vandy events.

I can't say the same about UNT, because I'm not an unbiased observer of my time spent living in DFW. However, I don't know many people that really cared one way or the other about UNT in any capacity (and that includes a lot of alums). Always a challenge to get people up to Denton for anything.

Living in Houston, I can say UH did create a big stir around town during their run this past year. It was infectious, and I went to a few games (I'm an unabashed UH lookie loo). But again, I have no way of knowing if DFW would do the same for UNT, as we've never done anything of note or worth celebrating.

I do know that I'd welcome a lot more lookie-loos to the UNT fold.

[UNTexas]

The last time UNT was in the tournament for basketball people were talking about them everywhere I went. People thought it was pretty cool they made it.

If our school actually started winning. People would be excited. It's tough to root for teams that consistently let us done year after year.

[Got5onIt]

This is probably true. I lived right in the middle of in Nashville, and I honestly never once gave a thought to, or had a conversation about anything related to MTSU athletics. And I'd have never driven to Murfreesboro to casually attend any sporting event (unless they were playing UNT). I did, however attend a handful of Vandy events.

I can't say the same about UNT, because I'm not an unbiased observer of my time spent living in DFW. However, I don't know many people that really cared one way or the other about UNT in any capacity (and that includes a lot of alums). Always a challenge to get people up to Denton for anything.

Living in Houston, I can say UH did create a big stir around town during their run this past year. It was infectious, and I went to a few games (I'm an unabashed UH lookie loo). But again, I have no way of knowing if DFW would do the same for UNT, as we've never done anything of note or worth celebrating.

I do know that I'd welcome a lot more lookie-loos to the UNT fold.

I grew up in DeSoto and had no idea UNT existed until near the END of my senior year when I was doing the whole college song-n-dance. I knew of SMU & TCU growing up.

Edited February 17, 2012 by Got5onIt

[GrayEagle]

Wow, how did you guys ever find Denton to become a student?

The main reason that you don't hear as much about North Texas as you did about SMU and TCU is conference. SMU and TCU were in the Southwest Conference and obviously we were not. Had we been in the SWC and the other two in a lesser league then we would be a lot more familiar to the metro than them. Another reason has been our lack of advertising. I believe that the four new goals just introduced will address that.

The location within the Metroplex has nothing to do with that. The center of the metro area is in the vicinity of Irving and DFW airport. There isn't much difference in distance to any of the three FBS universities. Now move out of the Metroplex and you might have a valid argument. The key to recognition is being more newsworthy than SMU or TCU and we haven't done that.

Then again, if it takes cheating or a drug scandal to get us well known then I'd rather remain anonymous.

I'd imagine that the Nashville market is somewhat similar. Vanderbilt is a much older university and is in the Southeastern Conference. It's much tougher for Middle to compete against that amount of money and tradition. But, if MTSU can get a couple of Top Ten finishes nationally they would be the talk of Nashville. Ditto for us in the metromess.

Houston is likely the same. Put UH in Conroe, give them the success that they've had and see if they don't outdraw and outpublicize Rice.

I've been a marketing and advertising manager in my lifetime and have pored over demographics and Nielsen reports for hundreds of hours. User reports with more details can be purchased for specific targeting. The networks will have that information before making the decision on TV contracts. Not to worry.

Edited February 17, 2012 by GrayEagle

[Eagle1855]

Wow, how did you guys ever find Denton to become a student?

The main reason that you don't hear as much about North Texas as you did about SMU and TCU is conference. SMU and TCU were in the Southwest Conference and obviously we were not. Had we been in the SWC and the other two in a lesser league then we would be a lot more familiar to the metro than them. Another reason has been our lack of advertising. I believe that the four new goals just introduced will address that.

The location within the Metroplex has nothing to do with that. The center of the metro area is in the vicinity of Irving and DFW airport. There isn't much difference in distance to any of the three FBS universities. Now move out of the Metroplex and you might have a valid argument. The key to recognition is being more newsworthy than SMU or TCU and we haven't done that.

Then again, if it takes cheating or a drug scandal to get us well known then I'd rather remain anonymous.

I'd imagine that the Nashville market is somewhat similar. Vanderbilt is a much older university and is in the Southeastern Conference. It's much tougher for Middle to compete against that amount of money and tradition. But, if MTSU can get a couple of Top Ten finishes nationally they would be the talk of Nashville. Ditto for us in the metromess.

Houston is likely the same. Put UH in Conroe, give them the success that they've had and see if they don't outdraw and outpublicize Rice.

I ended up in Denton because of the music program. That's it. I didn't even know UNT had a football team. I never set foot in a music building. But I left with a hell of a lot more than I could have imagined, and a good deal more than many friends who went to schools with football teams that are more fun than painful. College is what you make of it, and UNT is a great place to do that.

That being said, history will always be on the side of TCU, SMU, and Vandy for the reasons you outlined. And to a similar extent, UH.

That doesn't mean we can't be better than all of them. It just means it's going to take a lot of winning to change public perception. And as we have seen from all the realignment mess, we've still got a ways to go.

[PlummMeanGreen]

The last time UNT was in the tournament for basketball people were talking about them everywhere I went. People thought it was pretty cool they made it.

If our school actually started winning. People would be excited. It's tough to root for teams that consistently let us done year after year.

During our 4 year bowl run only last decade, albeit we were not playing Top 25 opponents the national (and local) recognition we received you cannot put a dollar mark on.

Out here Where the West Really Begins, ie, Weatherford, Texas, I was at a convenience store one morning weeks after a NO's Bowl appearance by the Mean Green and a Mexican lady who could barely speak English saw my North Texas Mean Green sweat shirt and said, "Ah, Mean Green! Mi familia & I watch Mean Green football team on TV at New Oreans. I like the Mean Green!"

Most of us are getting to the point where we hate the word "potential" as far as how it relates to our school, but can you imagine if we were to ever get a nice slice of the Hispanic DFW demographic behind this program? Our KNTU 88.1 FM campus radio station already does much of their weekend programming in Spanish to help train our Spanish broadcast majors as it is. Surely there would be an aspiring Spanish (Mexican) play by play person who could deliver MG football on TMGSRN, ie, The Mean Green Spanish Radio Network? Put that on the back-burner for now but don't like it over-simmer or some other local university will beat us to the draw on that, too.

GMG!