Vitriolic Hatred Of SMU: Why?

[SMU2006]

Also, no one has really addressed why UNT fans seem to embrace TCU while they cuss SMU. Walk around that campus and tell me there aren't just as many BMW's and kids spending daddy's money. TCU is very similar to SMU in that regard. If its a Dallas-Fort Worth thing I can get that. But don't act like TCU and TCU alums don't have their fair share of silver spooners too.

[untjim1995]

I'll join in on this.

First off, SMU2006, you seem like a pretty good guy. I suppose time will tell if you post more on this site, but I hope you always feel welcome to do that.

Secondly, the conference blackballing is real. The SWC hurts the most because we were very good at the time (ranked in the late 70s with a great coach that you guys discarded in Hayden Fry). To this day, I believe that bothered lots of SMU alums who wanted him fired on the Hilltop and then watched him go up the highway and turn around a program quickly into a big winner, which he couldn't do at SMU. In Texas, if you were SWC, you were gold--still are in some ways. Alas, if you weren't, then you were/are pretty irrelevant to many fans and media. Itsunderstandable--you guys got to host the Longhorns, Razoorbacks, Aggies, Cougars, Bears, etc...when they were ranked programs at the height of the conference's heyday. We got games at home against...West Texas State and others like them. When it became clear that there was no way we would get to join the SWC--unlike Houston just a few years earlier, who would go on to win the SWC many times once they gained membership--Fry bolted to Iowa for better support and opportunities. For Iowa and Hayden Fry, it was a match made in heaven. For us, it led to purgatory, or better yet, college football hell as a i-aa school. To this day, we deal with the acrimony and apathy that i-aa status did for us. Is that SMU's fault? No, but you all made it clear that we wouldn't be allowed in the Texas Big Boys League, which are administration literally took to heart.

Decades later, as we finally began to build back up from the ashes, as a severely underfunded college program, SMU was also very down. Skipped over by the Big XII, left for dead in an obscure huge league called the WAC that would soon get pillaged, most on the Hilltop recognized the spiral that was going on was lethal, especially while your biggest rival, TCU, made their way upward by basically getting away from all of its non-BCS Texas rivals, except y'all. In no way, was SMU going to find themselves so low on the totem pole as to be associated in a conference with North Texas. So, as you guys migrated to CUSA from the WAC and we moved from the Big West to the Sun Belt, you all still lorded over us that our conference was a glorified 1-aa league. Fans and media have always looked down on the SBC, in some ways it is clearly understandable. But when CUSA finally had an opening, a chance for us to finally get the opportunity to be associated with other Texas school in a legitimate 1-a conference, where was SMU putting their support? Behind freaking La Tech, a school so small in a market so miniscule that no one would want in a decent league. Of course, UTEP wanted want we did, and they had the advantage of a decent market and a good basketball team to bring to the table, as well as a possible bow tie-in for your league, which still hasn't happened. What about UNT? Well, you kept us from joining a league with any schools within 600 miles of us, where our almuni still don't care about one of those schools, and we dream of getting the chance STILL to be in a conference with other Texas school. So why can't we get into CUSA now? You tell me, because I literally don't know, other than to assume that the membership and leadership have had it made clear to them over the years that we offer nothing. Amazingly, a school with this many students and alumni in the DFW market can't convine anyone in that office that we belong. And for that, I don't blame SMU totally--but I definitely assign much of that blame to the fact that the local DFW media, who still think that the SWC schools are gold, won't even help us get decent coverage here. And for that fact, us not being able to ever get into the Big Boys Club, I blame entirely on SMU. We could easily be like Houston or even Texas Tech now if we had anyone go to bat for us against you guys. Unfortunately, that never happened.

And, by the way, I thoroughly expect you guys to buy out of our series if we get decent in a few years and y'all fall back. Money always win in this stuff. Y'all have it, we don't.

[Quoner]

Also, no one has really addressed why UNT fans seem to embrace TCU while they cuss SMU. Walk around that campus and tell me there aren't just as many BMW's and kids spending daddy's money. TCU is very similar to SMU in that regard. If its a Dallas-Fort Worth thing I can get that. But don't act like TCU and TCU alums don't have their fair share of silver spooners too.

What's the goal of this? Are we all going to hang out? Will Thad make a movie about it?

[meangreen]

I've always wondered why people on here hold so much hatred towards SMU, we never play them in anything. People who are upset about the SWC issue need to get over it and move on.

[Rudy]

OK, I'll take a stab at it. First, you seem like the exception to what is about to be said, as well as a few other SMU posters on here.

SMU views itself as above us. I've never gotten that impression from TCU.

There is the belief that SMU kept us out of the old SWC which forced our drop down to 1-AA a while back, followed by keeping us out of CUSA recently.

The constant belittling us by refusal to call us by our proper name.

TCU built itself up much like we hope to do.

Their refusal to play us until recently. One of our ex coaches said we would play SMU anytime anywhere, including a Safeway parking lot.

When we did play you at Fouts, one of your fans wrote "Cash beats trash" on their windsheild.

A couple of years ago, while at the Tom Thumb to get tailgating supplies before a game (I live near SMU) An SMU fan thought to mock myself and my university for no reason.

We don't condone the killing of hookers while attending our school.

Wow. Taking shots at my degree? Really? I work for one of the best commercial appraisal firms in the country. Account Manager is a bulsh title for sales douches. Don't think there is any need for that. And to the guy who doesn't think SMU has a beautiful campus I think you might be trying to convince yourself of that.

The first part of your post is a perfect example of douchery, even though I doubt you meant it as such. Our degrees are just as valuable as yours. As for the second part, I don't think he was saying it wasn't a nice campus, just that maybe it isn't the nicest. I think it is a very nice campus, but I don't know if I'd say its the nicest.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Rudy

[drex]

OK, let's tell it like it is. TCU will play us sometimes both in football and basketball. TCU, while somewhat monied, never has orchestrated a player payoff scam to the scale of SMU. When we played TCU in Fort Worth, we were not under the gun to sell x number of tickets or face the threat of cancellation of the series. TCU has never asked us to sell x amount of reserved priced tickets and then gone out and given away thousands of tickets to Jack in the Box, etc. In 1984 the SMU ticket manager called us to ask how many season tickets we had sold...I told them around 500...the man laughed and told me they had sold over 3,000 or so and hung up. We have never banned a cheerleading squad from our basketball floor..SMU did just that when we visited Moody in the early 90's. When SMU returned the game in Denton the next year they had the distinction of being the only school whose cheer squad was banned from getting on our floor. Speaking of basketball, it is my understanding that the only holdout for a metroplex early season basketball tournament is SMU. UTA, UNT and TCU seem amiable to the idea. Maybe you are victims of haughty athletic administrators. Also, when we played SMU in Texas Stadium SMU would not sell us a big block of tickets so our fans could sit together...we were spread out throughout the stadium. We returned the favor when SMU came to Denton in '89..not more than 10 SMU tickets together in Fouts for that game. SMU fans cried and cried over that, but what is good for the goose is good for the gander. Quid pro quo. It doesn't have to be that way, but it was in the past. Just as our people seem to have a bit of a persecution complex, SMU seems to have a preoccupation with self engrandisement.

[GrandGreen]

Well, having gone to both schools ages ago, I think there is a lot of ignorance expressed on both sides of the SMU/NT almost rivalry. Stereotypes abound on both sides judging by a multitude of posts on message boards. Problem is that I think more than a few actually believe the swill they print, it is not all just silly banter.

SMU is populated by a lot of Daddy gave me everything students who have everything handed to them. NT is primarily a much of middle class and lower class people barely getting by, commuting to Denton to get a sub-par education because they can't do better given their intelligence and resources. Both parties are guilty of such foolish thoughts.

When it comes to sports, SMU and NT are both easy targets for abuse when you think about it. NT has been relegated primarily to the back of the sport page forever. Playing sub-division 1 football for a big part of it's history and not really being in a Texas based conference in fifty years. SMU on the other hand was a big player in the golden age of college football but has largely been insignificant for decades and is the most penalized with reason program in history. May be the fact that both programs have been close to the bottom for so long, that both look upon the other as one of the few schools they can actually bully.

Currently SMU has success in its football program but still can't draw flies and it MBB program still struggles. NT has finally invested in their football program and their MBB team has been the best in the metroplex for years. Both universities are fighting the same battle with frankly scant success, relevance in the metroplex against the power collegian programs and pro sports.

Why other than dumb comments do many at NT abhor SMU? The key component has been a very thinly veiled effort by the SMU administration to distance themselves from NT. Not necessarily a bad strategy but it doesn't help relationships. SMU's support of La Tech in the last CUSA expansion is the best example. Backing a relatively small school in Ruston, Louisiana over a much more viable candidate 35 miles off is hard to defend on SMU's part and hard to forget on NT's part.

SMU has really upgraded their academic standards and has a very nice campus, although the location is really not the best in my view. NT has likewise significantly improved their academic standards and Denton despite their lack of support for NT is not a bad college town at all. The private versus public college thing will always be there. I think SMU is a good school and is improving but it for me, very difficult to justify on a cost basis. Worked for, with, and employed a lot of SMU and NT grads in the financial/information systems world; and I have failed to see any consistent significant differences in the ability of either.

On the athletic front, both schools are moving forward. The Big East may be a big and positive step for SMU. SMU and NT actually play about every sport except footall and MBB. It mades too much sense to not play volleyball, tennis etc. with a competitive school so close. It is only in football and MBB that SMU and NT are not currently playing. Hopefully the football series scheduled will actually be played and basketball will be scheduled. Both teams need fans and those games would be good draws, but neither team's progress is going to depend on playing each other.

[Eastwood Eagle]

I don't think the hatred exist among students. Most of us do not identify SMU as a rivalry since most of us have never seen the two schools play in football or basketball. That being said, it would be great for both schools if we started playing each other more to create a rivalry.

I love UNT and I also respect SMU. It is a great school. I'm not just saying that because my application is in review right now for their law school.

[SMU2006]

Interesting stuff. I really wasn't aware of all the political machinations back in the 70's. If it is any consolation, SMU can be largely blamed for the downfall of the SWC and thus being relegated to the little kids table when the league disbanded in the mid 90's. The Death Penalty really was the end for the SWC. Arkansas already had one foot out the door and when they finally did leave the floodgates opened. In all honesty, knowing what I know about the Death Penalty and how the university reacted afterwards, I'm shocked we have athletics at SMU. The school essentially tried to destroy athletics in the wake of the scandal with recruiting restrictions and alienating anyone who had anything to do with the Pony Express days.

I think when it comes to bad blood over the SWC stuff, that really should be dead and buried. Its like some SMU fans I know that blame the Death Penalty for the subsequent 25 years of losing. Guess what? SMU deserved the Death Penalty. What happened in the years following it can easily be called a just punishment for the crime. But time heals all wounds. SMU decided to stop using it as a crutch for why it couldn't win. Once the university administration gave the athletic department the ability to win, we have done some pretty special things here in the last few years. Being invited to a BCS conference would've been beyond my wildest dreams just a few years back. Now its a reality. It certainly sounds like SMU was active in UNT not being invited to the SWC, but can you say there were not other forces at play as well? Was SMU alone in this vendetta? I think we all like to have a convenient "out" for why things went the way they did. There are elements of truth to it, but in reality there were probably a lot more influencing factors as play than simply SMU keeping UNT out.

[All About UNT]

When we did play you at Fouts, one of your fans wrote "Cash beats trash" on their windsheild.

A couple of years ago, while at the Tom Thumb to get tailgating supplies before a game (I live near SMU) An SMU fan thought to mock myself and my university for no reason.

A.)No way that windshield should have left our campus intact

B.) As for the doucher at the store

[SilverEagle]

Interesting stuff. I really wasn't aware of all the political machinations back in the 70's. If it is any consolation, SMU can be largely blamed for the downfall of the SWC and thus being relegated to the little kids table when the league disbanded in the mid 90's. The Death Penalty really was the end for the SWC. Arkansas already had one foot out the door and when they finally did leave the floodgates opened. In all honesty, knowing what I know about the Death Penalty and how the university reacted afterwards, I'm shocked we have athletics at SMU. The school essentially tried to destroy athletics in the wake of the scandal with recruiting restrictions and alienating anyone who had anything to do with the Pony Express days.

I think when it comes to bad blood over the SWC stuff, that really should be dead and buried. Its like some SMU fans I know that blame the Death Penalty for the subsequent 25 years of losing. Guess what? SMU deserved the Death Penalty. What happened in the years following it can easily be called a just punishment for the crime. But time heals all wounds. SMU decided to stop using it as a crutch for why it couldn't win. Once the university administration gave the athletic department the ability to win, we have done some pretty special things here in the last few years. Being invited to a BCS conference would've been beyond my wildest dreams just a few years back. Now its a reality. It certainly sounds like SMU was active in UNT not being invited to the SWC, but can you say there were not other forces at play as well? Was SMU alone in this vendetta? I think we all like to have a convenient "out" for why things went the way they did. There are elements of truth to it, but in reality there were probably a lot more influencing factors as play than simply SMU keeping UNT out.

And your ultimate punishment is that you are now in a BCS conference, while we (who always followed the rules) are begging for leftovers.

Do I understand that life isn't fair....absolutely.

Do I resent having that fact of life shoved in our face every time we read about SMU moving up....yet again......absolutely.

So, here's my question for you. Why the hell do you care about our dislike of SMU?

[Green Mean]

So, here's my question for you. Why the hell do you care about MY dislike of SMU?

Fixed

[Mean Green 93-98]

Fixed

No, his use of the first person plural is justified.

[SMU2006]

I don't know that I care so much as it was just kind of surprising. As I said I just started lurking here once the Chase Walling to SMU stuff started heating up. In reading a lot of the comments on threads about him I was taken aback by some of the comments about SMU since there really is no rivalry (recently at least). Thanks to several of the posters on this thread I can see where some of you are coming from, but I guess I still don't understand why TCU gets a pass. Its OK. Like I said in a previous post, bitterness and hate are what make college athletics fun. To those that were treated rudely by the SMU douchers with the "Cash Beats Trash" sign, take solace in knowing you're a better person than them. Jackasses are everywhere and can take every form. Its my hope that when UNT comes to the Hilltop in a few years that SMU fans will be welcoming, friendly, and engaging. I know I will.

Just so you guys know it sounds like Chase really struggled with his decision not to honor his commitment to UNT. He mentioned several times in interviews on PonyPride that he really had a great relationship with the coaches at UNT and the SMU offer kind of came out of nowhere. Said the hardest thing he had to do in the entire recruiting process was calling the coaches at UNT to inform them he was headed to SMU.

[All About UNT]

Here is just another small tidbit that further perpetuates the disdain that many of us feel for your school's fans 2006. It is SMU fans like yourself that provide an exception to the rule

PonyFans

[SMU2006]

All About UNT,

There seem to be several posters on PF that kind of have a running joke with the "blackballing of UNT" stuff which now makes sense to me. Again, really wasn't aware of what went down with the SWC stuff in the 70's. I can see the picture a little clearer from the UNT perspective certainly. I just never understood why the hate for SMU and not TCU. There are tools on PF just like there are tools here. I'd like to think that they both don't represent the vast majority of supporters for either school.

[Green P1]

This thread has upped my hatred of SMU to previously unimaginable levels.

[Comet7745]

SMU2006, good post. I've been posting and lurking here for a while now. Mostly because my younger brother got a full ride to UNT (and had shown interest to UNT for a year now, and my family doesn't live anywhere near Dallas). So I've kind of been rooting for UNT in football and basketball. I took my brother to UNT on a campus tour, hell I enjoyed the hell out of it. It's got the type of student population that him and I can relate to (at SMU I'm usually chuckling at a lot of the students there). So even with me being pro-UNT, I still find it somewhat funny/vexing that everyone here seems to be gunning at SMUt any time they have the chance. Maybe with these schools scheduling each other soon, there will be a better rivalry. THe SMU/TCU games are some of the most fun games to attend, it would be cool if we can get that going with UNT.

[Green P1]

Also..."vitriol" is a noun and best used as such...and while making it into an adjective is not grammatically incorrect, per se, your usage is rather redundant considering the meaning of vitriol is, more or less, hatred...the word you opted to modify with your cumbersome adjective-ing. My guess is you did so in an effort to appear erudite to us public school folk, but it kinda missed the mark, champ as I suspect you don't frequently work such phrases into your daily vernacular as an accounts manager or manager of accounts or whatever generic title your SMU degree afforded you.

"Vitriol of SMU: Why?" or "Why the SMU Vitriol?" would've been much more suitable titles.

My initial thought upon reading just the title of the thread.... "Poisonous poison: Why not drink it?"

[rcade]

My perception of SMU is that they've been fighting to keep us out of their conference every time the possibility was raised the last 40 years, because they're afraid it would eventually make us a better football school than them. They're happy to have this enormous public university in DFW stuck in mediocre conferences. SMU has also refused to schedule us regularly, which would pack our stadium and be our biggest rivalry game of the year.

When I was a student in the late '80s, SMU came to Denton and the game was epic. A fight broke out between the two teams and the coaches at halftime.

[dentUNiTe]

My perception of SMU is that they've been fighting to keep us out of their conference every time the possibility was raised the last 40 years, because they're afraid it would eventually make us a better football school than them. They're happy to have this enormous public university in DFW stuck in mediocre conferences. SMU has also refused to schedule us regularly, which would pack our stadium and be our biggest rivalry game of the year.

When I was a student in the late '80s, SMU came to Denton and the game was epic. A fight broke out between the two teams and the coaches at halftime.

Wasn't that game a sellout as well? It's the height of stupidity that UNT & SMU haven't been playing each other on a regular basis for all these years.

[JRock]

Good Grief.

JRock

[Harry]

Wasn't that game a sellout as well? It's the height of stupidity that UNT & SMU haven't been playing each other on a regular basis for all these years.

I was at this game in 90 and it was standing room only. A fight did break out. It was one of the most memorable games I can remember being a student there.

[mattmartin817]

I don't like smu or tcu. Better?

[NT03]

He Hate Me

Edited February 8, 2012 by NT03