Vitriolic Hatred Of SMU: Why?

[SMU2006]

First off, I'm an SMU alum and this is not a flame thread. My wife is a UNT alum and I've been to the campus several times. I have several friends and family members that have attended UNT and they all have nothing but positive things to say about their experiences in Denton.

That said, I started lurking this board around the time that SMU started recruiting Chase Walling and was stunned by the hatred of SMU. I guess the real question is why? We hardly ever play each other in any sport and have absolutely no rivalry whatsoever. I could understand if there was any sort of consistent on-field or on-court rivalry, but that clearly doesn't exist. So I really wonder why so many of you are so consumed with what's going on at SMU.

Also, why the hatred for SMU and not TCU. I can understand people that think SMU is a bit of a "pink polo" culture, but have you ever stepped foot on the campus at TCU? It's the EXACT same kind of thing. Yes J.Crew makes purple shirts too only at TCU they throw on a pair of cowboy boots so I guess that makes it okay. Both are small, private schools that have a relatively large student population that come from wealthy families. However, it seems like most UNT fans on this board like TCU and hate SMU. Is this a Dallas-Fort Worth thing? I have a ton of respect for TCU, but be honest. They have their fair share of country club alums just like SMU.

For the record, I wish UNT all the best. The new stadium is a real gem and I look forward to making a trip out there in a few years to see the Ponies play. I also look forward to welcoming any of you when you make the return trip to the Hilltop. My family has a tent on The Boulevard and we never turn any fans away regardless of affiliation. I think UNT is on the right track with the new coaching staff and has a chance to vastly improve their lot in conference affiliation here in a few years if you can have a little more success on the field. CUSA was good to us at SMU. It was a marked step up from the WAC days and it provided us the platform to get the attention of the Big East. I would be very happy to see UNT in CUSA as I think they provide a real value to the conference.

I also understand hate is what makes college sports great so I take it all with a grain of salt. But I bet if some of you took the time to head over to SMU and see it for what it truly is the stereotypes of the past would melt away. SMU is a top 50 national institution with a 1.3B endowment, a presidential library, a top twenty business school, a top fifty law school, a member of a BCS conference, and has one of the most beautiful campus settings in the entire country. Are there some kids there that are on a four year vacation with daddy's money? You bet. They exist. Guess what? There are some of the same type kids at UNT and every other campus in America. SMU is a much different place in 2012 than it was in 1990. I was the son of two public school teachers in East Texas that was fortunate enough to attend SMU and met several kids at SMU who come from similar backgrounds. Not all of us were born with a silver spoon in our mouths.

Lastly, good luck with everything in the future. Again, I think UNT is headed in the right direction and I'm pulling for the Mean Green in every game that doesn't involve the Ponies. Also don't give up on the conference realignment scenarios. Its way too early for that. That story isn't written yet. With a little luck I think UNT will find itself in a very competitive league that dwarfs the Sun Belt. I'll be sure to post here if there are any rumors that invovle UNT in the CUSA-MWC merger talks. Best to all.

[Censored by Laurie]

has one of the most beautiful campus settings in the entire country.

I don't care much about the rest of what you had to say...and it will likely be beaten to the ground with the subsequent replies...but huh, if you truly believe the above statement you clearly need to get out and about a bit more.

[Mean Green 93-98]

Give me someone else to hate, and I'll think about it. But hating SMU is probably more fun.

[MeanGreenTexan]

I think you'll find that the old folks on here dislike SMU because they were instrumental in keeping UNT out of the old Southwest Conference a long time ago, thus relegating us to insignificance for years and eventually a trip to D-IAA for a short time. This hatred is deep and immovable.

I think you'll find that the young folks on here dislike SMU for a myriad of insignificant reasons...

But just about all of us dislike SMU for the superiority complex that many SMU fans/alums have towards UNT fans/alums.

You sir, sound like the exception to this rule. Thanks for stopping by.

Edited February 7, 2012 by MeanGreenTexan

[UNTcrazy727]

UNT has always tried to have an on-field rivalry with SMU, but the Ponies have almost always refused every time because they view themselves so far superior over UNT that they have nothing to gain by playing us. This is complete BS on both accounts. SMU might be ahead in football right now, but its not like they're anywhere close to being a top program. And playing each other regularly would increase attendance for both schools (something UNT and SMU need).

Looking forward to the series starting in 2014

[Censored by Laurie]

Also..."vitriol" is a noun and best used as such...and while making it into an adjective is not grammatically incorrect, per se, your usage is rather redundant considering the meaning of vitriol is, more or less, hatred...the word you opted to modify with your cumbersome adjective-ing. My guess is you did so in an effort to appear erudite to us public school folk, but it kinda missed the mark, champ as I suspect you don't frequently work such phrases into your daily vernacular as an accounts manager or manager of accounts or whatever generic title your SMU degree afforded you.

"Vitriol of SMU: Why?" or "Why the SMU Vitriol?" would've been much more suitable titles.

[Green Lantern]

This is not going to turn out well.

[Harry]

First off, I'm an SMU alum and this is not a flame thread. My wife is a UNT alum and I've been to the campus several times. I have several friends and family members that have attended UNT and they all have nothing but positive things to say about their experiences in Denton.

That said, I started lurking this board around the time that SMU started recruiting Chase Walling and was stunned by the hatred of SMU. I guess the real question is why? We hardly ever play each other in any sport and have absolutely no rivalry whatsoever. I could understand if there was any sort of consistent on-field or on-court rivalry, but that clearly doesn't exist. So I really wonder why so many of you are so consumed with what's going on at SMU.

Also, why the hatred for SMU and not TCU. I can understand people that think SMU is a bit of a "pink polo" culture, but have you ever stepped foot on the campus at TCU? It's the EXACT same kind of thing. Yes J.Crew makes purple shirts too only at TCU they throw on a pair of cowboy boots so I guess that makes it okay. Both are small, private schools that have a relatively large student population that come from wealthy families. However, it seems like most UNT fans on this board like TCU and hate SMU. Is this a Dallas-Fort Worth thing? I have a ton of respect for TCU, but be honest. They have their fair share of country club alums just like SMU.

For the record, I wish UNT all the best. The new stadium is a real gem and I look forward to making a trip out there in a few years to see the Ponies play. I also look forward to welcoming any of you when you make the return trip to the Hilltop. My family has a tent on The Boulevard and we never turn any fans away regardless of affiliation. I think UNT is on the right track with the new coaching staff and has a chance to vastly improve their lot in conference affiliation here in a few years if you can have a little more success on the field. CUSA was good to us at SMU. It was a marked step up from the WAC days and it provided us the platform to get the attention of the Big East. I would be very happy to see UNT in CUSA as I think they provide a real value to the conference.

I also understand hate is what makes college sports great so I take it all with a grain of salt. But I bet if some of you took the time to head over to SMU and see it for what it truly is the stereotypes of the past would melt away. SMU is a top 50 national institution with a 1.3B endowment, a presidential library, a top twenty business school, a top fifty law school, a member of a BCS conference, and has one of the most beautiful campus settings in the entire country. Are there some kids there that are on a four year vacation with daddy's money? You bet. They exist. Guess what? There are some of the same type kids at UNT and every other campus in America. SMU is a much different place in 2012 than it was in 1990. I was the son of two public school teachers in East Texas that was fortunate enough to attend SMU and met several kids at SMU who come from similar backgrounds. Not all of us were born with a silver spoon in our mouths.

Lastly, good luck with everything in the future. Again, I think UNT is headed in the right direction and I'm pulling for the Mean Green in every game that doesn't involve the Ponies. Also don't give up on the conference realignment scenarios. Its way too early for that. That story isn't written yet. With a little luck I think UNT will find itself in a very competitive league that dwarfs the Sun Belt. I'll be sure to post here if there are any rumors that invovle UNT in the CUSA-MWC merger talks. Best to all.

Good post - I'm a UNT grad and I hold no grudge against SMU. But I will say this, many of our older generation fans believe that SMU was a big part of keeping us out of the Southwest conference way back when. I can just speak to recent years, many believe when CUSA last expanded that SMU was the loudest voice against us and which ultimate led to UTEP being chosen over us. I can offer no proof of that and frankly I hope it isn't true. I think for many years SMU has tried to ignore us in scheduling despite always getting nice crowds when we play each other. Thankfully Orsini seems to get it, that UNT and SMU can help each other out since we are so close and can add so much to attendance. We're thankful that we have a four year series with you in football and would appreciate the chance to play you in other sports as well. No doubt SMU is a good school and we are proud of our school as well. Best of luck to you and visit us again.

[LongJim]

Sock puppet alert?

[BeanCounterGrad'03]

Also..."vitriol" is a noun and best used as such...and while making it into an adjective is not grammatically incorrect, per se, your usage is rather redundant considering the meaning of vitriol is, more or less, hatred...the word you opted to modify with your cumbersome adjective-ing. My guess is you did so in an effort to appear erudite to us public school folk, but it kinda missed the mark, champ as I suspect you don't frequently work such phrases into your daily vernacular as an accounts manager or manager of accounts or whatever generic title your SMU degree afforded you.

"Vitriol of SMU: Why?" or "Why the SMU Vitriol?" would've been much more suitable titles.

Quit being so opprobrious.

[SMU2006]

Wow. Taking shots at my degree? Really? I work for one of the best commercial appraisal firms in the country. Account Manager is a bulsh title for sales douches. Don't think there is any need for that. And to the guy who doesn't think SMU has a beautiful campus I think you might be trying to convince yourself of that. I've seen Vanderbilt, Emory, Stanford, UCLA, Duke, and many of the other top institutions in the country. SMU stands right up there with them from an aesthetic perspective. It certainly is no slouch in that department.

To the others thanks for the responses. I can see where some of you are coming from. I graduated in 2006 so I don't know a lot about the backstory of the SWC stuff. I also agree that I bet most of the hatred is from the older alums.

[Army of Dad]

This is not going to turn out well.

Better get your popcorn ready.

[Censored by Laurie]

Quit being so opprobrious.

Wow...such vitriol in your response. Maybe this guy has a point.

[Coffee and TV]

I dunno, man.

[foutsrouts]

But I bet if some of you took the time to head over to SMU and see it for what it truly is the stereotypes of the past would melt away. SMU is a top 50 national institution, a top twenty business school, a top fifty law school, and has one of the most beautiful campus settings in the entire country.

I have several connections to your school, including a grandfather graduate, and I've known several attorneys who have less than stellar things to say about your graduates. Same thing goes for business, so I think that you are inflating things a bit based on the not exactly unbiased Eastern press, and the "propaganda" thrown around campus.

I'm not a major smu hater, and I do agree that your academics have improved greatly over the last couple of decades, but you ain't Harvard and likely never will be. Btw, will you ever schedule us in basketball? I hear there is an abandoned Safeway parking lot somewhere just off Mockingbird if you all won't schedule us the normal way. BOL.

[SMU2006]

fouts,

I don't presume to speak on your personal experience with SMU law/business grads but to say that both of those entities are not exceptional contradicts almost every college publication out there. I agree there tends to be a bias in the ranking system, but the metrics by which they are measured are about as close to accurate as we can get. Whether its US News, Forbes, Princeton Review, etc... All of them have both the law school and business school among the very best in the country. Also, if anything SMU is fighting many of those built-in "East Coast" biases. Since 2004, SMU has risen from roughtly #100 on the US News & World Report to as high as #56 in the 2010 edition of the rankings. That is a significant improvement that shouldn't be ignored. Also, SMU has more billionaires on the Board of Trustees (six) than any non Ivy League school in the country.

I agree with you however. SMU isn't and will never be Harvard. That said, there is no reason SMU can't be in that next tier of elite privates like Duke, Vanderbilt, Rice, and USC. One of the really interesting new initiatives at SMU is requiring undergrads to live on-campus for at a minimum of two years. The goal is by 2020 for that to be bumped up to a third year. This is something SMU has been slow to address due to the relatively small size of the campus. The heightened visibility of the Bush Library will also be a feather in the cap of the university moving forward. Regardless of how one feels about his politics, having the George W. Bush Presidential Library is a wonderful asset for the university.

I'm optimistic about where SMU is headed both academically and on the athletic field. The Big East will provide us a level of visibility that we need on the east coast. As of last year, over half of the incoming freshmen were not from Texas. I think the goal is for there to be a 50-50 balance between Texans/out of state students. As the average GPA and SAT scores rise, SMU will continue to move up the rankings. Its a lofty goal, but certainly not impossible for SMU to be a Top 30 national institution in the next 20 years.

Edited February 7, 2012 by SMU2006

[meanrob]

SMU sucks.

That is all.

[SHOSS]

I've been on campus at SMU quite a bit as I dated an SMU girl while I was at UNT. The campus is nice. One of the nicest in the country? I don't know. There are a ton of campuses out there.

If you truley are interested in why some of us(including myself) harbor such hatred, just read ponyfans.com. You could even search UNT or NTSU or NTSTC in either the football or recruiting forums... It will only take you about 5 minutes to see why UNT'ers hate SMU.

If you wanted to read into the history behind some of the public commentary from the SMU brass back when NTSU was making a push for joining the SWC, it is out there. I'm sure one of our members could provide you a link to a newspaper article or some such...

The rumors about us not getting into CUSA, well, I have no idea if there is any truth to it. It is a running joke on ponyfans.com though. Again, just read that site for a few minutes. All your answers are there.

[SMU2006]

SHOSS,

Maybe its a message board thing then? I've been on ponyfans for several years and yeah there are those that poke fun at UNT, but I stick to the SMU Rivals site. Posters are much more mature and the information is obviously a lot better.

[risinggreen]

fouts,

I don't presume to speak on your personal experience with SMU law/business grads but to say that both of those entities are not exceptional contradicts almost every college publication out there. I agree there tends to be a bias in the ranking system, but the metrics by which they are measured are about as close to accurate as we can get. Whether its US News, Forbes, Princeton Review, etc... All of them have both the law school and business school among the very best in the country. Also, if anything SMU is fighting many of those built-in "East Coast" biases. Since 2004, SMU has risen from roughtly #100 on the US News & World Report to as high as #56 in the 2010 edition of the rankings. That is a significant improvement that shouldn't be ignored. Also, SMU has more billionaires on the Board of Trustees (six) than any non Ivy League school in the country.

I agree with you however. SMU isn't and will never be Harvard. That said, there is no reason SMU can't be in that next tier of elite privates like Duke, Vanderbilt, Rice, and USC. One of the really interesting new initiatives at SMU is requiring undergrads to live on-campus for at a minimum of two years. The goal is by 2020 for that to be bumped up to a third year. This is something SMU has been slow to address due to the relatively small size of the campus. The heightened visibility of the Bush Library will also be a feather in the cap of the university moving forward. Regardless of how one feels about his politics, having the George W. Bush Presidential Library is a wonderful asset for the university.

I'm optimistic about where SMU is headed both academically and on the athletic field. The Big East will provide us a level of visibility that we need on the east coast. As of last year, over half of the incoming freshmen were not from Texas. I think the goal is for there to be a 50-50 balance between Texans/out of state students. As the average GPA and SAT scores rise, SMU will continue to move up the rankings. Its a lofty goal, but certainly not impossible for SMU to be a Top 30 national institution in the next 20 years.

Yeah, any business school that produced Jeff Skilling of Enron has just got to be special.

[SHOSS]

SHOSS,

Maybe its a message board thing then? I've been on ponyfans for several years and yeah there are those that poke fun at UNT, but I stick to the SMU Rivals site. Posters are much more mature and the information is obviously a lot better.

Lets not pretend this is limited to just the message board culture.

Anyways, good luck to you. Maybe we can all share a beer and a cocktail prior to the games when they pick up in 2014.

[SMU2006]

LOL @ Skilling comment.

[Green Mean]

Most on this board know I don't hate SMU at all...in fact I like you guys because I have lots of friends/colleagues that are SMU grads and they're great people. Tho I can't buy it's one of the more beautiful campuses in the country....look its decent looking...but one can't even lie and say it's one of the best in the country in my opinion.

As for the school rankings...all I say is meh....it's all irrelevant if the person doesn't have the brains and smarts to make it outside of a classroom. In working in corporate America and having friends in all walks of life it really doesn't matter where you got your degree from if you even got one period. It means zilch. Congrats on your rankings but I did recently just see on MSN or Yahoo that rankings are a farce and that schools are starting to manipulate them by having students retake the standardized tests etc. Not saying SMU is doing that but I wouldn't necessarily put the most stock into rankings into reality.

Other than that I wholeheartedly agree with everything else you said.

[golfingomez]

[SMU2006]

Green Mean,

I agree to a certain extent that the college rankings shouldn't be the "end all be all" when it comes to the overall rank of a university. There are far too many variables to consider and the fact that these rankings hold as much weight as they do is a bit comical. However, its undeniable that these rankings DO impact what sort of potential applicants a particular university will attract. Every university works its ass off to make sure they are putting themselves in the best possible light for these annual rankings because right or wrong, prospective students/parents care about that sort of stuff. College is about so much more thank rankings, but in the arms race that is university academia, it is a highly coveted commodity.