RV's COMMENTS ON JONES/WILLIAMS

KRAM1 · February 2, 2012

I was glad to hear RV mention the Jones/Williams grades fiasco last night at the Signing day event...he was SPOT ON WITH HIS COMMENTS...

I paraphrase from what i can recall...

There comes a time when young men need to do what they are supposed to do...

The AD staff did what they were supposed to do, the academic staff did what they were supposed to do, the players did not do what they were supposed to do!

At some schools the AD staff would have gone to the teachers and asked for a grade change..not at UNT...not any longer...

This is all on those two players..

Mentioned he had a sit down in his office with each, and believes they got the message and will be better young men and better leaders as a result of this incident.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Really happy to see RV publicly balce the responsibility EXACTLY where it lies...even more happy that UNT values academics and does not pressure teachers to change grades for athletes (did not think they did, but great to hear RV state it publicly). These kids hurt themselves and hurt their team and hurt UNT by their very selfish actions. We'll now see if they "man up" or shirk away blaming others for their lack of maturity. I hope they accept responsibility as well as Tony Mitchell has and turn this thing around to the benefit of all concerned.

GREAT COMMENTS FROM RV LAST NIGHT!

MDH · February 2, 2012

Proud that our AD still believes in integrity.

untbowler · February 2, 2012

I am glad RV addressed and yes it is on the two players in the end, but at the same time, were there no progress reports to show this situation coming to a head or was it a bombing of a project or final, which would suck but could be understandable. Hope reality check to these kids is apparent and their parents, teammates, and coaches make sure they know how disappointed they are.

UNT Five&Dime · February 2, 2012

At some schools the AD staff would have gone to the teachers and asked for a grade change..not at UNT...not any longer...

<emphasis mine>

What does this mean? So NT used to do this?

Did he really say that or is this something lost in translation? :unsure:

GrandGreen · February 2, 2012

Still, I wish someone would explain why after the grades were known, the players were still not only allowed to play but got major minutes. Ether they still had an opportunity to pass with additional effort or they didn't. If they still had an opportunity to improve their grades, why were they not benched and given full time to devote to that effort. If they couldn't improve their grades, why were they continued to be played when it was known they would not be around the second semester. This seems to me a horrible decision as it downplays the importance of academics and obviously doesn't prepare the team for the loss of key players.

RV may state it is all on the players, but I don't understand why the athletic administration and coaching staff handled it so poorly.

Edited February 2, 2012 by GrandGreen

Mean Green 93-98 · February 2, 2012

These kids hurt themselves and hurt their team and hurt UNT by their very selfish actions.

I don't know that their actions were "selfish" . . . by all accounts, their problem was that they were complete "gym rats." They were focusing too much on basketball, and not enough on books (if that is not correct, please correct me). It's obviously a problem and a misplacement of priorities, although a very common one among 18-year-olds, but it seems their goal was to improve their play and help the team. I don't think selfishness was the reason for their actions.

EagleD · February 2, 2012

Twice in my collegiate career I went back and asked for a grade "reevaluation". One to change a B to an A. He said no. One to change a C to a B. This prof had me do extra credit work. Both grades were on the cusp. There is nothing wrong with talking to a prof about your grades but it's up to the student NOT the athletic dept.

forevereagle · February 2, 2012

I don't know that their actions were "selfish" . . . by all accounts, their problem was that they were complete "gym rats." They were focusing too much on basketball, and not enough on books (if that is not correct, please correct me). It's obviously a problem and a misplacement of priorities, although a very common one among 18-year-olds, but it seems their goal was to improve their play and help the team. I don't think selfishness was the reason for their actions.

Selfish because they did what they wanted to do, not what they needed to do. They placed their personal preference above what was needed to keep the team together.

MeanGreenDan · February 2, 2012

Twice in my collegiate career I went back and asked for a grade "reevaluation". One to change a B to an A. He said no. One to change a C to a B. This prof had me do extra credit work. Both grades were on the cusp. There is nothing wrong with talking to a prof about your grades but it's up to the student NOT the athletic dept.

I would venture to guess that they spent the five weeks off trying to do anything they could to remedy the situation. My guess would be they were not on any cusp.

gksmith · February 2, 2012

While Jones and Williams are out for this season, they have the spring and summer semesters to get back to par. It will be hard work on their part and if they lost their scholarships, then it will be on their nickel. Being on ScoPro now does not have to be the end for them.

KRAM1 · February 2, 2012

RV may state it is all on the players, but I don't understand why the athletic administration and coaching staff handled it so poorly.

Not arguing the point...just wondering how you know they handled it so poorly? Could it have been JJ's call as to whether the kids got those minutes? Seems he is the head coach and can use players anyway he likes as long as they are eligible to play. How does anyone other than those within the dept. itself know exactly when and how this info was processed and how it was handled internally?

While, if you or I had been in charge, and knew what RV, JJ and others knew, we may or may not have handled it any differently, but since I nor perhaps you don't have all those facts, I'll have to believe what RV and a few others I have chatted with have told me about the situation. This is on the kids.....and guess what...THEY KNOW IT!

UNTLifer · February 2, 2012

... but I don't understand why the athletic administration and coaching staff handled it so poorly.

How so? Just curious what you know.

untbowler · February 2, 2012

How so? Just curious what you know.

The academic staff is there for a reason, also JJ and Coaches should have been doing grade checks, there are what 13-15 players on the team, not 105 like in football so an easy quick check of grades should have brought attention to issues. I am assuming the guys were maybe doing some Wintermester courses to try and stay eligible. I will agree it is on the student-athletes to complete work but the academic support staff and coaches could have easily sat them down and "try to" get them on track.

untgirl04 · February 2, 2012

The academic staff is there for a reason, also JJ and Coaches should have been doing grade checks, there are what 13-15 players on the team, not 105 like in football so an easy quick check of grades should have brought attention to issues. I am assuming the guys were maybe doing some Wintermester courses to try and stay eligible. I will agree it is on the student-athletes to complete work but the academic support staff and coaches could have easily sat them down and "try to" get them on track.

So how do you know they didn't do that? You're just assuming that because the kids failed, someone at the AD didn't do their job. That's an unfair accusation unless you have inside knowledge. When I was in school we had PAs (Peer Advisors) who lived in the dorms with us and could talk to us about academics. They had access to all the tutors, could set up study halls, connect us with others in the same courses, etc. But there were still students who failed. Does that mean the PAs failed to do their job? No. It means

(A) Some kids aren't ready for a college load.

( Some kids are not motivated to study/don't take it seriously enough.

(D) A combination of any of the above.

All the grade reports, heart-to-hearts, mandatory study halls, and wishful thinking will not get someone a passing grade if the appropriate amount of effort isn't applied. And that's on them. They're young, it's a learning experience, and while I'm disappointed, I think the AD has sufficiently discussed this issue and I (and the rest of you should be too) am ready to move on and look forward to watching them play next season.

UNT90 · February 2, 2012

Synopsis of thread:

Fan 1: I trust the AD to do their job

Fan 2: I don't trust the AD to do their job.

Fan 1: OK, prove they don't do their job.

Fan 2: No, you prove they do do their job (hehe)

repeat 500 times.

GrandGreen · February 2, 2012

Not arguing the point...just wondering how you know they handled it so poorly? Could it have been JJ's call as to whether the kids got those minutes? Seems he is the head coach and can use players anyway he likes as long as they are eligible to play. How does anyone other than those within the dept. itself know exactly when and how this info was processed and how it was handled internally?

While, if you or I had been in charge, and knew what RV, JJ and others knew, we may or may not have handled it any differently, but since I nor perhaps you don't have all those facts, I'll have to believe what RV and a few others I have chatted with have told me about the situation. This is on the kids.....and guess what...THEY KNOW IT!

Sure the fault primarily is the players did not do what they should have. No debate.

As far as not knowing the facts, I do definitely know that the kids did not meet academic standards. Being that Mitchell's status was known quickly after the semester end, I assume they knew Williams and Jones' status at about the same time. Then I know that JJ continued to play both as if nothing was amiss. I am not sure how any one would not agree with those facts and one assumption.

It is my opinion that playing them under these circumstances was poor judgment. If they had a chance for passing through tests and/or work, would it have not make more sense for them to concentrate solely on that mission and not basketball. If they in fact, could not make up the work, I hope that JJ would not sent the wrong message and continue to play them just to eek out a couple of more wins.

The only other rationale for playing them is that they could indeed become eligible and the staff thought they were doing so. This points to poor oversight over what they were doing or preparing to meet their obligations and again why would you play them under that circumstance.

No I don't know all the facts, but I am too stupid to think of any scenario that changes my mind that this was not poorly handled by the coaching staff and/administration.

KRAM1 · February 2, 2012

Sure the fault primarily is the players did not do what they should have. No debate.

As far as not knowing the facts, I do definitely know that the kids did not meet academic standards. Being that Mitchell's status was known quickly after the semester end, I assume they knew Williams and Jones' status at about the same time. Then I know that JJ continued to play both as if nothing was amiss. I am not sure how any one would not agree with those facts and one assumption.

It is my opinion that playing them under these circumstances was poor judgment. If they had a chance for passing through tests and/or work, would it have not make more sense for them to concentrate solely on that mission and not basketball. If they in fact, could not make up the work, I hope that JJ would not sent the wrong message and continue to play them just to eek out a couple of more wins.

The only other rationale for playing them is that they could indeed become eligible and the staff thought they were doing so. This points to poor oversight over what they were doing or preparing to meet their obligations and again why would you play them under that circumstance.

No I don't know all the facts, but I am too stupid to think of any scenario that changes my mind that this was not poorly handled by the coaching staff and/administration.

OK, Grand, if your point is that playing them is your opinion of mishandling the situation, I can buy that as your opinion. My opinion is that playing them is not mishandling the situation regarding the grades...no problem just an honest diffence of opinions that's all...To me playing them or not is the coaches decision and is a "team" issue not an academic issue, but I see where you are coming from. Thanks for the explanation.

Censored by Laurie · February 2, 2012

repeat 500 times.

That's every argument.

MeanGreenDan · February 2, 2012

Synopsis of thread:

Fan 1: I trust the AD to do their job

Fan 2: I don't trust the AD to do their job.

Fan 1: OK, prove they don't do their job.

Fan 2: No, you prove they do do their job (hehe)

repeat 500 times.

But what about the merits of the 2-3 Zone?